Oct 28, 2014 -- 11:54AM, 11kv wrote:
A lad (Paki) I was at school with went to Pakistan for a holiday and was asked what is Pakistan like ,his reply "A lot like Bradford with less Pakistanis.................
He stole that joke from comedy genius Citizen Khan
Oct 28, 2014 -- 12:23PM, dunlaying wrote:
I stopped reading when "statistical rationality" gave way to "reasonable on-line anecdotal evidence".
That's a good shout, anything anecdotal is best avoided. However, that comment was only about new arrivals since 2011 plus all illegal immigrants which together represent only 18% of the total number.
I guessed at 50% based on Pew's estimated Muslim inflow in 2010 of 64k from a net migration of 252k or just over 25%. This was the only recent year for which I could get such a figure. Two factors were then taken into account since the 2011 Census:
1. The Arab Spring, which has led to a sharp spike in asylum applications from Muslim lands.
2. I believe the rapidly increasing number of Muslims since 2001 would by 2011 have started drawing in an increasing amount of relatives from abroad (family, marriage etc)
50% may be too high or too low: it is a reasonable guess. However, when we are talking about the illegal immigrants section, that blows out pretty much all EU, US and generally first world Western countries' immigrants. I would expect my 50% guesstimate there to be understated, possibly considerably understated.
Overall, I'm happy with the notion of 50% of immigrants since 2011 + all illegal immigrants being Muslim. Either way, we are talking a small percentage difference on 18% of the overall total.
Oct 28, 2014 -- 2:15PM, Foinavon wrote:
In your original post,betlarge, you invited us to play devil's advocate and you intimated at the dangers of extrapolation as some factors can change.On the political front a big unknown is if and when Turkey becomes a full member of the EU. Also will the UK remain a member of the EU.Impossible to know the answer to these two possibilities but they would affect the results of your calculation.
I'm not convinced that Turkey joining the EU would greatly swell Muslim ranks in the UK. Large Turkish and Kurdish communities in Germany would make them a more natural host. Turkey's recent intransigence over ISIS has done them no favours regarding membership of the EU either.
If we left the EU, there would be a minor reduction in Muslim immigrants but likely a greater one in non-Muslims. They're good points though, and just a sample of the number of variables that can play into these figures.
Oct 28, 2014 -- 5:47PM, Mighty Whites 2008 wrote:
the thesis here presumes that all muslims will remain muslims and not become atheists as time progresses. Christianity has dropped off significantly in the west over the last 50 years. As time progresses this may well become apparent in other faiths.
Spot on. One would think that Secularism has to be a major player over the decades. However, it is worth noting that after 40 years of large-scale Islamic immigration, Muslims seem at least as religious as they were, possibly even more so.
Oct 28, 2014 -- 5:47PM, Mighty Whites 2008 wrote:
the thesis here presumes that all muslims will remain muslims and not become atheists as time progresses. Christianity has dropped off significantly in the west over the last 50 years. As time progresses this may well become apparent in other faiths.
Agreed. I'm thinking of giving up being a muslim so I can try Hogbites hand cooked Pork Crackling.
Oct 29, 2014 -- 7:04AM, Facts wrote:
The question was asked earlier. All the ' calculations' refer to immigration. You need to factor in levels of emigration too. These are significant numbers, as you assume all immigrants stay in the uk permanently. They don't.
No the figures used are for net migration i.e. immigration - emigration. Most people refer to this as 'immigration' although as you point out it's technically incorrect.
Whilst having a significant impact on the Muslim population stats at the moment, as that population grows immigration will become very much less of a factor than birth rates.