Ramifications of Ched Evans case

good luck with this venture.

Rafa Benitez supports me. This is FACTS

Fred - you forgot to mention that the other chap was acquitted.  So the premise of your entire OP is total b*llocks.

wheres that report button ffs

That is exactly the point I am making Berto. There is no consistency. How can she in the eyes of the law be able to give consent one minute and not the next?

I think it actually proves that the jury carefully considered the specific evidence against both defendants before reaching their verdicts.

What evidence did the jury have that the woman was capable of consent with Ched's mate but not with Ched?

Don't know, like you I didn't listen to all the evidence.  Perhaps they inferred something from the fact she voluntarily got into a taxi and went to the hotel with the other guy.

If it was in South Africa he would have been given the keys to the nearest brothel..

The night porter should never have given Ched a key card to the room, two adults only in per room.

These situations would arise every weekend if night porters and security were not diligent.

A horrible situation but he has done his time and the hysterical reaction from twitter and the media is over the top for me.

There are many so-called "Reality" TV programmes like Geordie Shore where the objective of the cast seems to be to get as drunk as possible and have as much sex as possible. Even the angelic BBC have had a series on BBC3 called "Sun, Sex and Suspicious Parents" where teenagers are filmed on their first holiday abroad without parents, getting absolutely bladdered and looking for sex at every opportunity.

It's no wonder the lines get blurred, and I have some sympathy with the OP's comments.

FredRescue     18 Oct 14 20:55 

Any bloke scoring a drunken bint tonight .........


These opening few words say more about you than the rest of the crap you subsequently spout.

It wouldn't have helped the accused's case that two of his moronic mates were also filming the sex scenes on their mobiles.

^^^ is that right never saw that in press?

Nile Ranger got cleared and Loic Remy`s never made trial , maybe the woman where racists in those cases

https://www.crimeline.info/case/r-v-ched-evans-chedwyn-evans

Howdi its on here

The applicant's two companions remained outside the hotel. They looked through the bedroom window and filmed what was taking place with a mobile telephone until the curtains to the bedroom were closed.

If they have footage it must be gone now otherwise would have been used at the trial

deary me, i have no opinion on this case but that is pretty awful stuff, no respect.

cheers chaser

Come to think of things are the people who released him not going against a jury here , is there not some rule that to be released early you need show remorse or have no intention of re-offending? If this is the case he has never admitted it so he couldnt have showed he has no intention to commit the crime again , as far as the jail is aware they have releases a rapist on the streets with no remorse.

The quick fire re-trial is 100% going to be not guilty then it seems

They need to clear him so he can play again. Justice isnt relevant now.

sufc fan here,a lot of people have jumped on the bandwagon this week without once having a look at the whole trial transcript etc.

A very different case, have to say personally, an unsafe conviction.

its all ended up with a personal witch hunt against evans and sufc,not a lot of balanced argument at all.

And you are unbiased?

why so personal,the anger seems to be against the law,or is that what the media want juicy stuff that's sells papers etc.

Facts 19 Oct 14 13:12 Joined: 05 May 03 | Topic/replies: 15,448 | Blogger: Facts's blog
FredRescue     18 Oct 14 20:55 

Any bloke scoring a drunken bint tonight .........


These opening few words say more about you than the rest of the crap you subsequently spout.



Lol nice playground insult when you have nothing to rebut the subsequent points with, well played sir

http://www.chedevans.com/judge-for-yourself

what this video hahaha they said she was too drunk to consent , my fecking arse shes walking with a pizza box

i thought she had to be held up?

just seen this video now

regarding the madley trolling it now seems you can go on primetime tv and say certain rapes are soft thus offending,degrading the victim,but if you get over excited on social media and threaten a crime you can get 2 years in chokey

If she was too drunk she might have said yes and forgot.

So the lessons: Not to have sex with woman who is too drunk.

Probably best not to get over-excited on Twitter, in that case. Not difficult, surely?

Of course that video could be anyone and even if it is her that doesnt mean she wasnt more drunk later on. Then the site isnt exactly impartial.

or if you want to get over excited make sure its on live tv

What was wrong with what Madley said?

for me nothing , but to some it was outrageous and yet when someone said something equaly outrageous about their daughter the full force of the law is bearing down,and new laws been made

The law is there to protect celebrities not ordinary people.

If the outrageous stuff said was rape threats then that's against the law and is not comparable to what Madley said.

the full force of the law is bearing down,and new laws been made

I'm not saying this is wrong as I wasn't aware of it but do you have a link?

Dotchinite
19 Oct 14 17:25
Joined:
19 Apr 04
| Topic/replies: 3,856 | Blogger: Dotchinite's blog
Of course that video could be anyone and even if it is her that doesnt mean she wasnt more drunk later on. Then the site isnt exactly impartial.

it could be anyone , this was used at evidence at the trial

as*

and this is the bit she says she cant remember a t#hing , shes running after the bloke with a pizza ffs

the bloke who was aquitted told the guy on duty at the hotel to keep an eye on her as she was unwell !

she had just been pounded by 2 blokes , she would have been a bit uneasy on the foot no doubt about it

Fair Enough but the point about how drunk she was at the time of the attack is still relevant as is the comment about the impartiality of the site.

The fact remains the evidence convinced the jury who arent exactly known for convicting rich cleebrities and people speculating on "evidence" given on his own website arent likely to be taken seriously.

ive not even read what anyones said about it on the site really as only seen it today , i just dont find her as drunk as made out in that video

The girl in question still doesn't know to this very day if she was raped or not as she cant remember.???????????????????

the bloke who was aquitted told the guy on duty at the hotel to keep an eye on her as she was unwell !

peperoni must have been off

Evans was most unfortunate,he was in the wrong place at the wrong time,if he had been playing for Rotherham the police would have decided there was no case to answer,just ordinary behaviour on a saturday night there !

he certainly got a pounding for it

I have read some of the case and heard it on the radio.

It seems that people are angry because they feel he has no remorse because he wont admit it and so he cannot be forgiven. If he feel that he has not committed a rape (and only 3 people really know what happened)then why should he admit to it.

From what I have read she does not know if she gave consent or not, there were no marks on her. A very difficult case and rape is so difficult for the victim to prove or an innocent man to prove he did not do it.

What Judy said was naive but nothing more. It sounded like, "there was no physical trauma to the victim".

Of course, each and every rape will cause physical trauma to the victim, and I'd be suprised if she didn't acknowledge that. What she actually meant imo, was that there were no aggravating factors in this case (violence in the basest of senses, i.e. punching or kicking).

Regardless of whether the man was guilty or not.

It wasn't naive at all. There was no physical trauma to the victim. There certainly would have likely been mental and emotional trauma but there was no physical trauma. In fact contrary to being naive Judy seems to have an intelligent understanding of the case and sentencing far beyond that of the naive  'rape is rape' idiots who targeted her for abuse.

Report on sentencing.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-17781842

The judge said the sentence took into account that there had been no force involved and the complainant received no injuries.

He also said the complainant was not "targeted" and the attack had not been "premeditated".

The judge who listened to the evidence that Evans was convicted on and sentenced Evans said almost exactly what she said. She pretty much reiterated exactly the facts of the crime he was convicted of.

You do wonder what result would had occurred if it wasnt a rich footballer.

when someone sticks a ck up your ans, when you apparently weren't expecting it, come back to me as to whether you feel physically violated (not talking from personal experience).

You don't think that impacts you physically as well as mentally you half wit?

And I don't have an opinion on the validity of the case because I, like everyone else, don't know the reality of it.

no injuries. my god are you for real shrewd dude. most rape victims are torn apart. no juices flowing if you need me to get graphic

the victim was collecting £600 per head of people tweeting about it , there was a  few hundred at court who all had to give her £600 a pop

No it would only cause me physical trauma if it caused me physical trauma.

Physical trauma means physical injury. 'You feel physically violated', I probably would but that is an emotional response and therefore is emotional or psychological trauma.

Your right you have no ****g clue of the reality of it. The judge did and he made it quite clear their was no evidence of any injury which rules out physical trauma.

no injuries. my god are you for real shrewd dude. most rape victims are torn apart. no juices flowing if you need me to get graphic

Now you are just making things up.

you're a fkh idiot plain and simple. Rape causes plenty of physical trauma. Torn blood vessels etc. You don't think you feel it the day after? How did she know she had been raped.

And the irony is, I am not even on the side of the "victim" necessarily here. But in any rape, and we can only go on the juries verdict to catalogue it into this bracket, THERE IS PHYSICAL TRAUMA. How can there not be.

You must be wet behind the ears.

get graphic

you're a fkh idiot plain and simple. Rape causes plenty of physical trauma. Torn blood vessels etc. You don't think you feel it the day after? How did she know she had been raped.


She didnt know , she never remembered anything

We are talking about this rape. Rape may cause physical trauma but it didn't in this case. She was medically examined and no injuries were found. What part of that is too hard to understand? Your use of insults and capital letters says a lot about the point you are attempting to make

if you actually pay attention to what i had written.

To say there is no physical injury involved in a real rape beggars belief. The only way you can assume there wasn't is if you feel he wasn't guilty.

I am not even arguing the case against him, purely that Judy shouldn't have presumed that a convicted rapist hadn't caused physical injury to his victim. Hope that makes sense? You need to look at what has been written, and not read between the lines.

Hopefully you can see the disticntion between the two.

I'm not assuming their wasn't your assuming there was. She was medically examined and no injuries were found. The evidence of no injuries was led in evidence at the trial. The Judge took the lack of injuries in to account when sentencing Ched Evans. Judy said their was no physical trauma according to you. I'm saying there was no physical injuries caused by the rape.

I'm not even arguing the case for him. Where are you getting there was physical injury caused? Presuming you actually know what a physical injury is.

To say there is no physical injury involved in a real rape beggars belief. The only way you can assume there wasn't is if you feel he wasn't guilty.

Out of all the nonsense you have spouted this is probably the worst. If you can point to the legislation which requires there to have been physical injury for a rape to have taken place then please do. I would suggest you you might have to go back a century for that to be the case.

Are you basically saying that she must have suffered physical injury if she was raped because in your archaic definition of rape the rapist has to have cause physical injury to the victim?

Are you basically saying that she must have suffered physical injury if she was raped because in your archaic definition of rape the rapist has to have cause physical injury to the victim?

Yes this is exactly what I am saying. In every real case, I'd imagine there is significant physical trauma at the time of the attack. Perhaps the physical trauma becomes mental trauma. Certainly, under the legal definitions you stick so limpet like to.

But at the time of the attack, rape is physical by definition.

Perhaps it is me that has an archaic view, perhaps it is the legal system's reliance on medical evidence that is often simplistic, and definitions of physical injury that are intrinsically narrow, that is archaic.

Anyway, I apologise for getting so irate.

Physical




Non Physical

There wouldn't have to be physical trauma at the time of the rape though. The law on rape use to be that a person had to have used force and the victim had to have shown physical resistance for it to be rape but quite rightly, I'm sure we would both agree, this is no longer a requirement. 

In this case the jury appear to have decided that she was too drunk to give proper consent. She didn't have to actively struggle, she didn't have to put up resistance and Ched Evans didn't have to be rough with her for it to be rape she just has to fail to give consent. He may have had sex with her like he does with his girlfriend and the sex would have have been as likely to have caused injury as that. That's irrelevant though as to whether he raped her but it's relevant to the gravity of the rape.

The physical act of sex in a rape could be exactly the same as consensual sex other than one person says "no stop it" it doesn't mean it's not rape. Consensual rough sex could cause more physical trauma.

http://sciencenordic.com/voluntary-sex-causes-many-vaginal-injuries-rape

I understand what you have said.

To me it hinges on her level of consciousness, awareness and ability to express her wishes at the time.

I still think there would at least be a short term physical ill feeling / impact of a genuine non-consensual sexual act the following day as evidenced by Rohypnol cases (even in girlfriend type sex cases, as in your scenario). Especially if you genuinely can't remember giving consent or the act itself.

There are girls of course, who have sex, and massively regret it the next day - and this becomes rape in their minds.

And drink often blurs the lines.

women used to be reluctant to come forward as there were loads of cases that never saw a courtroom
if much of the above and what was in the media is true what made the cps think there was even the slightest chance of a prosecution, and surely after this theres no reason for anycase not to make it to court

Whatever the rights and wrongs of the case,he has served time and been released so it should stop there. People desperate to feel empathy for any victim shouldn't be allowed to act as cybernet vigilantes and force the man onto the benefits system.If he pleaded not guilty he is perfectly entitled too not feel remorse if he believes himself to be innocent.

But what About the people who believe that he WASN'T innocent? Surely, they are entitled to feel animosity at his lack of remorse.

If you were innocent would you accept being convicted so easily ? He thinks he is innocent so why on earth should he ? How many cases have we seen overturned in recent years when people have served many years in jail only to be deemed innocent,a dangerous path to go down.

ignorance of a crime does not denote innocence in any shape or form



had she picked them up in a night club i may doubt his guilt

but his mate stumbled across her in a kebab shop

football supporters surely are entitled to voice an opinion as to who plays for their team



sunderland stood down titus bramble whilst his court case went on, ( iirc) and i dont remember too many
protests

Very unusual case in that that prosecution wasn't about whether the girl agreed to have sex with Evans,
but it was about if she was in a fit state to agree.

If Evans had sent her home in a taxi,there wouldn't have been a trial.

I can understand how Evans feels hard done by,but the chances of this conviction ever being overturned
is very slim and he has to put it behind him.

I'd be very surprised if any football club offer him a chance to return.

I am just wondering how many guys and girls have got drunk and dived into bed!!??

just wondering

Evans started off by giving the girl oral sex so he says, i think this could be a fib. How many blokes would give a girl oral sex after his mate had just finished having sex with her? yes it happens in porn films, but this was a drunken lass who may not have been the most hygienic. (pi$$y knickers)

Did they create the oral sex story to show a more caring side? i find this bit odd.

Angel- Neither Evans nor his friend had an orgasm which makes it
slightly less stomach-churning

Treetop. All I was pointing out was that, just as HE is quite entitled to NOT express remorse, the other side of the argument is that those who think he wasn't innocent feel entitled to seethe about his lack of remorse.

Me? I've never heard of the fella...or the woman...or the court case. Just an observation.

Really? i didn`t know that. Is that why his girlfriend has stood by him i wonder. No **** no fun. They both took advantage of her, didn`t enjoy it too much and left her in the room. She woke up confused covered in her own urine.

They made mistake after mistake that night, and to leave her was, well asking for trouble.

^^^to JML

"had she picked them up in a night club i may doubt his guilt
but his mate stumbled across her in a kebab shop "

Come on donny ,this wasn't Rotherham the police would have considered it normal late night behaviour if she was more than 11 years old and chased her for wasting police time if she said that there !

p.s point taken naydam but I fear the hyped up hysteria for this one.

Hoooof

Thee girl agreed to sex so she was not raped
It is outside the definition of rape

Had she said NO or she was unconscious I would accept rape, but there is no proof either of these alternatives happened.

If she was drunk, that is rather her own fault. Nobody does anything drunk they would not do sober with inhibitions removed.

Not only has he served a prison sentence, no club will employ him because of threats to club sponsors by women, to boycott them if they do,
and neither can he go abroad to play because of our vindictive sex laws imprisoning him to this country for life.

I do not approve of his behaviour but one does not destroy a man for that. I feel very sorry for this man, he has his life destroyed
by one of the worst miscarriages of justice I have ever seen. He was not even allowed to appeal his conviction

This man was destroyed by the vindictiveness of women.

It tells me there is absolutely no justice for men in our justice system, only for women.

betfair forum seen past the trial

why would he be released early without showing no re-morse

this one ebul