Harriett Harman on Andrew Marr

"What are your policies?"

"Our policy is we're going to have some policies"

I heard Nadine Dorries on the radio this morning and she more a less agreed UKIP were on the right track.I reckon she is nailed on to defect.

Labour were exhausted of ideas when they left office and everything they'd done was turning sour.
It's no wonder they won't put there cards on the table regarding policies.

Nevertheless there is always one policy you can count on from labour.
Which is to tax borrow and spend, that is set in stone.

as opposed to the tories who will reduce the tax burden for the rich but allow the poor to pay for it through indirect taxes & the like - another thing set in stone

Yes Geordie but the main difference between the two policies is that the Tory way doesn't bankrupt the country.
And everybody ends up with more in the long run.

yes all are equal
except some are more equal than others

Human rights lawyers been more equal than most

If you want equality you won't find it with New Labour or any other party.
Everybody is on their own side.
You've got to make your own way through life and make things happen for yourself, because no one else will.

the torys made cutting the defecit their no 1 target and have spent 99% of their time targeting their tanks on it,
its currently 100 billion and rising slightly and the debt is currently on its way to been doubled by the end of the parliament,with problems ahead in the eurozone and growth slowing if we were to add in the the collapse of the world banking system lehmen bro,s,northertn rock etc where would we stand,i,d suggest there,d be little difference between where we are now and where we where in 2008,

If only politicians were as good at running the country as they
are at looking after themselves. e.g. Margaret Beckett pays her
hubby £38k a year to be her secretary, I wonder how many she interviewed
before deciding he was the best candidate.

Id want a lot more than 38K to work with her.

Blah ,blah,blah gangmasters,
Blah,blah,blah low wages
Blah,blah,blah listening,
No you aint listening you dopey cloth eared turd.

I cant understand why they bother to interview people like Harman. She never has anything sensible to say. Like most politicians

the government is supposed to be full of the cleverest brightest people in the country but reguarly get ripped up for shoithouse paper by the likes of neil,marr,paxo,davis,snow,bradley etc ,think politicans will legislate only to be interviewd by sky presenters in the future

Crippen.... What is your reaponse to 1st time posters 13:45 post?  You say the tories dont bankrupt the country but they have been running at an enormous deficit for 4.5 years now.

Tax received is less than tax spent on public services Rob.

It's as simple as that. The shortfall is 10s of billions a year.

The Public Sector is huge, massive even. Tories are cutting it but it's so unpopular to do so that they are barely scratching at the surface.

Most jobs created in the last 5 years are low paid jobs. All parties are keen to raise the personal tax allowance and continue with tax credits, so the the number of net tax contributors is getting smaller and smaller.

The top 1% of earners pay 25%+ of all tax received.

Meanwhile the public want the state to do just about everything for them apart from brushing their teeth.

The shortfall is about ten billion a month i believe.  I dont like that, not over a long period of time and it is now 6 years since the credit crunch, time to get close to balancing the books.  1 or 2 pc deficit isnt so bad when the economy is growin, but 5pc or more is asking for trouble, especially if IRs rise.

1st time poster etc
the brightest and the best are not politicians or civil servants or public sector.
They are busy looking afer themselves and their families (I am ... not sure if I'm one of the brightest or best, but don't really care).
Sure, they'll try to screw me with VAT, income tax, regulations.  Sure I'll choose how much I let them.
After all, we're all in this together.  Yer, right.

It's truly staggering isn't it.

I think the Govt needs to be more honest with us. The whole economy is built on debt. They should be communicating the fact that much of what we take for granted in public services is paid for with BORROWED MONEY on which we're paying interest!!

The interest free ads for this that and t'other are back on our screens. Buy now pay in 5 years time...

Same old boom and bust economics... Can't end well.

rob how would you cut 8.5 billion a month the government is over spending now?

I know where she lives if anyone wants to pay her a visit

how harman has got to the top in her party is beyond me. she once a book on 'women in politics' and left out thatcher's influence, rancid individual.

MW ... For a start, make sure you get the tax from the rich.  How hard can it be to create a solid tax system with no loopholes.
Big tax on second homes and BTL.  Dont let amazon etc claim to be off shore and pay no tax.

We use 33 million tonnes of petrol and diesel for road vehicles each year so add another £3 per litre tax. That should do it. Alternatively scrap the NHS. Result, no deficit, balanced books.

Any other ideas?

Tbf it is not my job.

Gives you an idea of the amount of pain needed doesn't it? No government could do it in one term and hope to get re-elected.

They havent really made any inroads though.  And i think the economy is growing at 3pc again.

Why more tax on second homes?? Why go after people who dare to be successful?

What is wrong with out mentality that we chase everyone who makes money?

A local guy I know had his guy towed from outside his second home. £200 to get it out of the pound. 'Why no parking permit?' 'Oh, you're not allowed one if it's your second home'.

WTF?

Self made, employs folk yet gets treated like shoite for the crime of being successful.

Harriet Harman is one of those career politicians who will agree with anyone to keep her status.
35-60 in and out of the front bench
60+ house of lords
Agree with whoevers in favour, and if you go on newsnight etc learn the script off by heart.
Summed up by her clapping Ed Milliband when he attacked Blair on the war with Iraq.
David Milliband: You voted for it Harriet, why are you clapping?
Harriet: You have to be supportive dont you!

Oct 12, 2014 -- 11:51AM, Injera wrote:

Tax received is less than tax spent on public services Rob.It's as simple as that. The shortfall is 10s of billions a year.The Public Sector is huge, massive even. Tories are cutting it but it's so unpopular to do so that they are barely scratching at the surface.Most jobs created in the last 5 years are low paid jobs. All parties are keen to raise the personal tax allowance and continue with tax credits, so the the number of net tax contributors is getting smaller and smaller. The top 1% of earners pay 25%+ of all tax received.Meanwhile the public want the state to do just about everything for them apart from brushing their teeth.

The top 1% of earners own over 90% of the wealth.
Makes their 25% tax seem a bit paltry, doesn't it?

I fail to understand your defence of the richest people and their need to protect their ridiculous sums of money, while the rest of us scrabble about for what's left.

I doubt you belong to the 1% (though I suppose its possible).
That's the current government's way though. Look after the 1% and bugger the rest.

Injera.... No one needs a second home.  So tax it, it is an extravagant luxury.  I am currently in the process of buying two BTL flats so I am not talking my own book here.

90% of all income tax is contributed by 50% of the working population.

Yeah, let's go after the wealthy shall we. That'll work. That'll kill the public sector once and for all.

How many of those 50% work in the public sector I wonder???

GL Rob. Hope you don't have mortgages on them. Margins so tight on properties.

We don't need a lot of things but I get angry at our culture of taxing people who dare to make it good. A pal of mine goes to the station at 545 just so he can get a seat. At his desk at 715 and leaves at 6. 40% tax payer.

Meanwhile folk get up at 9, cruise thru the day and get paid on benefits for doing so. Nice houses too.

Aint right.

You say the tories dont bankrupt the country but they have been running at an enormous deficit for 4.5 years now.


rob-dlan the Tories aren't in power they're simply part of a coalition.
The Tories can't do a thing without the Lib/Dems support.

What many seem to be in the dark about is how easy it is to spend money on extra services, but awfully hard to cut them back without a lot of pain involved and enormous outcry from all involved.

When Labour borrowed money to spend it was rarely a one off event.
The money had to be borrowed every year and spent every year. That's what happens when you expand public services.

No one needs a second home.  So tax it, it is an extravagant luxury.

Council Tax is paid on it; Stamp Duty is paid when it is purchased; Capital Gains Tax is paid if it sold on at a higher price than when purchased.

Why shouldn't people who have worked hard, become successful, paid their taxes etc have a weekend cottage, for example? If the reward for striving is always to be penalised, it's in the nature of mankind not to bother, as we see in so many folk who can live perfectly adequately without needing to work.

Damn well said Arley.

Oct 12, 2014 -- 1:31PM, Injera wrote:

GL Rob. Hope you don't have mortgages on them. Margins so tight on properties. We don't need a lot of things but I get angry at our culture of taxing people who dare to make it good. A pal of mine goes to the station at 545 just so he can get a seat. At his desk at 715 and leaves at 6. 40% tax payer.Meanwhile folk get up at 9, cruise thru the day and get paid on benefits for doing so. Nice houses too.Aint right.

Total Blolox.

'Nice houses'. Lazy workshy layabouts.
You've been brainwashed pal.

All those who have plenty (ie the VERY rich) haven't just aspired!
Just the same as that all those who are poor or in poverty haven't asked for it.

If only everything was as black and white as you paint it.

Hmm, thanks for that. Come and have a look at my neighbourhood! MOst work ludicrous hours, the rest get paid for watching daytime tv and live in similar homes to those who work!

You hate the rich I get it.

Do you hate my pal who owns 2 homes, rents another and has a £1m refurbisment ongoing? Thats 20% VAT for the Public Sector (200k)!!!

3 gardeners, new 4x4 (10k VAT on that) 5 kids all privately educated and looked after by private health care (000s saved for the taxman..no burden on the State).

Oh and they're self made, entrepreneurs.

Do you hate them too?

How about a land value tax.

I don't hate the rich, but can't see why you love them, injera. It's not like you live in a rich neighbourhood.
Well done your mate btw. Is everyone who has his sort of money so deserving?

If you think life on benefits is such a breeze, you are sadly deluded and seriously misguided by the stories of the few who take the slash and get away with it.

fwiw, I work very long hours for very little reward, have a couple of extremely wealthy mates and I have also suffered the indignity of having to try to live off the state.

Maybe it's just that I try to empathise instead of blaming whoever the Mail and Channel 5 tells me is responsible for the mess successive bunches of millionaires have made of society.

The biggest problem this country faces is that there are far too many hopeless people who do not contribute to the cost of the public services which they absorb at a faster rate than those who make their own way in life without reliance on the State.Unfortunately these scroungers breed more children than the rest of us and so the cycle continues and the percentage of non contributing inadequate people in the population continues to grow.Raising taxation wont achieve anything in the long run ;the only solution is to reduce the scrounger pool. Even with an overall majority Cameron will probably be unwilling to do what is necessary however Osborne and Farage might have the bottle to begin to tackle the problem.

Those on long term benefits of course its a breeze. You know something is wrong when the cap comes in at 26K and people who have been on them complain that they may now have to get rid of SKY TV. As someone who has never claimed a penny and been with the same company up at 5:45 every morning for 14 years being on 20K a year in the South East when the cap is at 26K is a touch annoying

Same old crap, all the time.
Won't you people ever realise that not everyone on benefits is a scrounger?

A majority of those forced (yes, forced) to live on welfare, don't want to.

Every time sanctions are created, and welfare is cut, it's these poor feckers who suffer. Not the scroungers and not you lot, which is why you trot out the same nonsense on every thread on the subject.

ffs!!!!!

There are some people on long term benefits who dont wont to work mate I'm sorry but that is the case. I'm not saying all are, I'm not talking about those who geniunely cant work, but welfare for some has become a way of life that is true.
Of course another problem is those in work who are minimum wage whilst the top person is on 30 times as much plus a bonus is wrong. Anyone who works 40 hours a week shouldnt have money topped up by working tax credits the company should pay enough. When Tescos are making a profit of two billion and their workers are having to be topped up by working Tax Credits something is wrong

I couldn't agree more.

Therein lies the problem. The need for ever increasing profits for big corporations and utilities etc year on year.

More money needed for everyone to pay for it all, including those on benefits. Meanwhile the money made doesn't come back in tax because most of it is avoided.

btw, sj.

Just look at the damage ATOS did to 10s of 1000's of people who are/were genuinely sick and unable to work (some even terminal or paraplegic) at the cost of Billions paid to ATOS by the taxpayer. In order to cut even less billions from the welfare budget.

Studyform i've set out the reality of the situation the country is in .I'm certainly not advocating a unilateral withdrawal of benefits as quite obviously there are people who through no fault of their own need to be supported by the State. That is the mark of a civilised Society however it is crass,weak Governments like those of Blair and Brown that have encouraged the undeserving to sponge off the State and it is these people that need to be dealt with.

STUDYFORM
STUDYFORM 12 Oct 14 20:50 Joined: 26 Jan 05 | Topic/replies: 14,490 | Blogger: STUDYFORM's blog
btw, sj.

Just look at the damage ATOS did to 10s of 1000's of people who are/were genuinely sick and unable to work (some even terminal or paraplegic) at the cost of Billions paid to ATOS by the taxpayer. In order to cut even less billions from the welfare budget.

Nobody worse than ATOS mate agree 100%. Tests if you were fit for work included lifting a pint of milk and touching your toes.

I have been at an ATOS 'interview' with a very deserving case. It was a joke. Fortunately the appeal (which I also attended) was upheld, but not without major stress and upset.

The question, Posy, or at least the dispute, is over the numbers of scroungers vs genuine claimants.
I would suggest the ratio is far greater towards genuine than the media would have us believe.
The most genuine claimants have no voice and are easy targets for treading on. The scroungers still find a way to scrounge (or steal, or trade illicitly).

The trouble with employing a private company to hit a target which is what the tories done is they couldnt give a to ss who is and who isnt fit

I remember when shortly after Blair was elected the Guardian started advertising hundreds if not thousands of well paid jobs in the public sector the great majority of which were in labour controlled Metropolitan Boroughs.As i'm sure you know a goodly proportion of these jobs were of no real value to anyone other than the recipient and the cost of the public services just mushroomed out of control.As well as reducing the dependency pool public spending needs to be slashed by removing all non essential costs.

^