Chit Chat
There is currently 1 person viewing this thread.
These 114 comments are related to the topic:
Atheism vs an agnostic
Atheism vs an agnostic
sort by:
Show
per page
Replies: 114
|
By:
If I lived in squalid poverty in the middle ages in a bleeding hut and looked out of my non-glazed window and could see St Pauls/St Peters/Any Feckin Massive Cathedral towering above everything else on the horizon, I am sure I would have believed in God.
(No excuse for it these days, IMO) |
|
By:
marychain1
I love the "I believe in God because of the Bible and I believe the Bible is true because my belief of God tells me so" circular logic of the religious. .  |
|
By:
HH Sultan Vinegar. I cast out demons and heal the sick in the name of Jesus. And there isn't a day goes by that I don't see or hear about people who do that far better than I do! Please enlighten us as to in whose name you cast out demons! Is it in the name of Allah, or Mr Tickle?
There also isn't a day when I look at current world events that I don't see it line up with bible prophecy. I've looked in vain for the prophecies of Mr Tickle. I can't seem to find them! Do you have a link? |
|
By:
Religion doesn’t cause most wars. Most take place on race and ideological grounds. Hitler’s attempt to wipe the Jew’s off the planet was on the grounds of them being an inferior race to Aryans. Nazism and Communist ideology was at the forefront of the German /Russian conflict though the Nazi’s racial hatred of Bolsheviks was another factor. Hitler and Stalin could hardly be considered religious. Pol Pot ,another atheist and communist dictator ,commited some of the worse crimes of the last century. The Balkan conflict was another based predominantly on racial grounds.The allies conflict against the axis powers took place on ideological grounds as did the U.S’s conflict against the NVA (an attempt to stop the spread of communism).
|
|
By:
The Balkan conflict not about religion? You jest, surely.
Kosovo 90% muslim Bosnia - muslim Croatia - RC Christian Serbia - Eastern orthodox christian The conflict was about ethnic cleansing/massacres (in other words we don't approve of your brand of religion). It was dressed up in the press as about Serbs, Croats and Albanians but the tensions brewing during the years of suppression by Tito were religious ones. |
|
By:
Germany was predominantly Christian when then WW2 took place but it doesn't mean it was on those grounds the war took place, it was because of Nazi ideology and racial hatred.
The Serbs may be Orthodox Christian but they never went to war on those grounds it was built on racial grounds . Not so much we don't approve of your religion as we don't approve of your race.Did they believe God was on their side , they probably never gave it a second thought as they committed Genocide just as Hitler didn't when exterminating Jews. Racial hatred run wild. |
|
By:
WW2 was a follow up to WW1 as the Nazis never accepted that they were defeated. WW1 ended without an invasion of Germany which allowed this view to persist.
The holocaust was not the main event, just a sideshow emanating from Hitler's hatred of the Jews. I'm sure that there are others here who are better able to discuss the holocaust but I am convinced that it was as much motivated by religion as race. The Balkan war was depicted as between Serbs, Croats and Muslims in the press. An unfair and biased comparison as two are nationalities and the third a religion. Sarajevo and Mostar was about Christians killing Muslims. Kosovo was about driving out Muslims and destroying Mosques. Religion gives free rein to murder, it is undeniable. |
|
By:
"Mien Kampf" had no religious base. No way can Hitlers war in Europe be termed a religious one, it was Nazi ideology that drove it. If Muslims in the former Yogoslavia had said they wanted to be Christian would that have spared them , No because it was their race that was hated and vice versa. Religion can give free reign to murder but so does atheistic ideologies both are extreme and both think there's is the right way.
|
|
By:
I did not say that Hitler's war was a religious one. The systematic murder of 5 million Jews was motivated by religious hatred, he wanted to kill them all but mercifully ran out of time.
We will have to agree to differ on the Balkans, I can not answer hypothetical questions. |
|
By:
But the all the Propaganda put out by the Nazis ,was of the Jews being an inferior race to Aryans and Darwinist belief of survival of the fittest.
|
|
By:
They said the same about the Bolsheviks but didn't have a plan to exterminate the Russians, just conquer all of Europe and grab the resources. They regarded the Poles as inferior but segregated the Polish Jews for shipment to concentration camps.
|
|
By:
Hitler treated the Russians dreadfully , only around 5% of those soldiers captured ever made it back to Russia alive. British troops treated better as they were considered a better race. Agree Hitler had a special hatred for the Jews , but was that not down to his encounters with them as a child , their racial traits and maybe he feared how bright a lot of them were rather than their religion.
|
|
By:
Did Hitler hate the Jewish race or the Jewish religion? It didn't matter in "the final solution" whether they were a religious Jew or an atheist Jew ,all that mattered was their racial lineage.
|
|
By:
I can't be bothered to look up the figures at this time of night but I think that 20 million Russians died compared with 5 million Jews. The Jewish deaths accounted for a much higher percentage of their population. The Nazis created in effect a machine for slaughtering the Jews from captured territories. The Russian deaths were mainly soldiers and civilians caught up in the invasion of their lands.
|
|
By:
An agnostic friend of mine also suffered with dyslexia, and seemed to spend most of his time pondering the existence of Dog.
|
|
By:
Did Hitler hate the Jewish race or the Jewish religion?
Probably both. Atheist Jew? Am I an atheist christian because of my parentage? No, I'm an atheist. |
|
By:
5 million Jews Foinavon? There weren't even the oft quoted 3 million dead in Europe in '39.
|
|
By:
Adolf hated bankers, who were predominantly jewish.
Canary Wharf is missing an Adolf.. |
|
By:
Good morning Al Dente.
I don't know how many Jews were killed during the war but 5 million is probable. In this article it is stated that of the 9 million Jews residing in Europe at the start of the war approximately two thirds were killed. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Holocaust There are conflicting views but it was a horrendous slaughter of defenceless civilians of all ages. |
|
By:
Christianity isn’t a race it’s a belief. Jews are born Jews by race some choose to believe in the OT God and practise Judaism , some become Christians (Messianic Jews) or have other spiritual beliefs and some choose to believe there is no God and are Atheist but they are all still Jews by race. Britain has no definitive race as such.
|
|
By:
just fyi, the balkan war happened in the early 20th century and was essentially about the states of the balkan peninsula breaking free from the Ottoman empire. the fact that what you refer to as the balkan wars is actually the yugoslav wars just demonstrates you lack of knowledge on the subject. I think if you went off and read about Milosevic and Ratko Mladic and what their motives were, you'd find it pretty hard to continue grinding this religious angle. for the serbs, the yugoslav war was always about the land, they believed that the land which included Croatia, Bosnia, Kosovo, Macedonia and Slovenia was rightfully theirs (ironically enough because of the bitterness over the way the land was split after the balkan war). They wanted 'their land' back and they would have set about murdering whoever was there, mulsims, chritians, space aliens, it made no difference. yeah they slaughtered the bosniak muslims becasue they were weak but they would have done just the same in Zagreb and Maribor if they'd been powerful enough and I don't think you'll find a lot of muslims round there. when it comes to religion, people will create any old platform for their hatred, however fanciful!
|
|
By:
Milosevic and Mladic were indicted for war crimes including ethnic cleansing. The Yugoslav war is also referred to by some historians as the Third Balkan War. Different historians have different views. here is one summary, perhaps you can give another reference source.
http://www.historyguy.com/balkan_war_third.htm#.VDrtPfl4pQU |
|
By:
i saw a scarecrow having a w@nk once, now he was REALLY clutching at straws!
|
|
By:
When you resort to insult and profanity you have already lost the argument.
Here is Christopher Hitchens' view copied from Wikipedia Hitchens argued that the choice in Yugoslavia was between a multi-ethnic plural democracy led by Muslim president Alija Izetbegović in Bosnia and a fascistic, nationalistically inspired ethnically-cleansed state driven by Serbian leader Slobodan Milošević. He called Milošević a fascist and a "national-socialist",[29] and considered the Croatian nationalist president Franjo Tudjman "equally detestable".[30] In God Is Not Great, he wrote about Christian Orthodox Serbian and Roman Catholic Croatian nationalism- and religion-inspired crimes against the Muslim Bosnians, at the hands of proponents of "Greater Serbia" and Croatian "revived Ustashe formations" during this period which are "often forgotten".[31] He was highly critical of Western inaction in protection of the Muslims, partially blaming this on the Clinton administration and specifically Hillary Clinton. In effect, the extremist Catholic and Orthodox forces were colluding in a bloody partition and cleansing of Bosnia-Herzegovina. They were, and still are, largely spared the public shame of this, because the world's media preferred the simplification of "Croat" and "Serb," and only mentioned religion when discussing "the Muslims." But the triad of terms "Croat," "Serb," and "Muslim" is unequal and misleading, in that it equates two nationalities and one religion. (The same blunder is made in a different way in coverage of Iraq, with the "Sunni-Shia-Kurd" trilateral.)[32] |
|
By:
 i could say the same to you about your views on religion. my last fyi for tonight, Christopher Hitchens, like you Foinavon is a vicious atheist extremist who spends his life desperately seeking out platforms to hammer away at the religious. he also has a problem with the Clintons and has a similarly crass strategy of attack against them. his views on anything are utterly bigoted by his blind hatred of anyone who disagrees with him so I'll continue to base my opinion on the yugoslav war from the words of ald Ratko himself. Thanks for taking the time to c+p from Wikipedia and history guy though, you're clearly committed to seeking out the truth here (sic) |
|
By:
You're welcome fkqmz.
May your god go with you. |
|
By:
It seems that athiests believe they need to be shown evidence that there is a God and God believers don't see anything convincing in the arguements for the on existence of God. The truth is you can never live in absolute certainty that there is or isn't a God. But people struggle to cope with uncertainty and want things black or white as it makes life easier for them so will convince themselves they are right either way.
If people weren't as extreme in their views then they would be more tolerant of others and open to the possiblity their views could be incorrect. |
|
By:
I live in 'absolute certainty' there is none - can't see why you'd think that's a problem for 'us'.
|
|
By:
Because it breeds an intolerant, divisive society. "I'm right 100% and you can believe there is no God but your wrong 100%" attitude.
The Muslims believe with"absolute certainty" the Koran is the truth, Christians the NT and Jews the OT. Someones deluded somewhere down the line ,but many never believe its themselves who could be mistaken. |
|
By:
Nope - still can't agree sorry.
My 'absolute certainty' ATTITUDE has no effect on society, nor neighbours, not even family. I don't do anything to interfere with anyone else's beliefs or lives - they can carry-on as they wish as I watch in despair. Other than telling Jehovah's or similar at the door that I'm atheist I doubt few else would know or care. It wouldn't matter how many times I tell my Mum or lady-friend 'there is no god' - they'll continue to believe - bless 'em. |
|
By:
You are right about the others you mentioned though RickiBobby.
|
|
By:
For the sake of simplicity, assume the world was split into 3 religions, lets call them Christians, Muslims and Hindus…one third of the world's population believed in each religion.
Every single devotee of each religion believed, totally, that their god/s was the right and only god and that all other religions were completely wrong, and their god/s did not exist. Statistically, which is more likely? a) that one of the three religions was the right one and their god did exist and both the other two religions were wrong and their god did not exist b) that all 3 religions were wrong and there was no god at all? |
|
By:
Good question, Jack Hacksaw! But I would have called the three religions atheists, Muslims and Hindus, since, as a Christian, I don't have any religion, but only care about the truth!
|
|
By:
^There's one for you Ricky
 |
|
By:
Ivor, if your lady friends accepted that they might be wrong and you accepted that they might be right ,whilst your still believing that your probably right it could create a more open dialogue and a few shocked faces.
Some Christians believe Muslims ,Budhists, and Jews can connect with God through there religions and vice versa. So if that's the case its the same God with different ways to him. All boils down to 2 questions (a) There is a God and an After life (b). There is no God we are descendants of monkeys and there is no after life. The only certain answer can be found upon death ,everything else is speculation. |