religous question....is the christian and moslim god

No - clearly not. Give me a few minutes and I'll explain.

No, because one of these Gods does not stand for killing but love...Simple.

some people think they do.........i agree i dont see how they can

pauly.........not the mass murdering god of the old testament

They are both figments of a fertile imagination so therefore the same.

akabula........totally agree

No, because one of these Gods does not stand for killing but love...Simple.

Ah the God of love. Is that the one that presides over the millions who die horrible deaths every year through starvation? Is that the one?

help me out valasquez

The Christian God is the same God the Jews worship = YHWH or "Yahweh". Christians believe that Jesus (Yeshua) is Yahweh himself, coming into the Earth in flesh and blood, as a man. This is a blasphemous idea to Jews, Jehovah Witnesses, Muslims, Mormons, Gnostics, etc.

Christians believe in the TRIUNE GOD - Father, Son and Holy Spirit, memorably portrayed in a famous icon by Andrei Rublev...yet, as it says implicitly in the bible and explicitly in the New Testament,"These three are One," perhaps in the sense that ice, water and steam are three different states of the same substance. Jesus said, "The Father (Abba) and I are One..." etc. "Whoever has seen me has seen the Father."

Blaise Pascal wrote extensively on the differences between Christianity and Islam. In Christian belief you are "saved" by faith alone - by belief in Jesus. In Islam, Allah is utterly impenetrable and unknowable - much of the best Islamic theology - Sufism IMO - is influenced by idealistic Greek philosophy.

Muslims seem to believe in "fate" - in "Allah's will" etc, whereas in the bible, there are stories dedicated to the prophets arguing with God and perhaps even changing his mind.

Is that what they mean by tough love?

Gods struth it's all fairy stories ffsk

Ah the God of love. Is that the one that presides over the millions who die horrible deaths every year through starvation? Is that the one?

Yep, the same one who gave us all a choice of how we live our lives....There is enough food in the World to make sure nobody is hungry..
Do we need a God to sort us all out or allow us to make our own choices?

Brilliant! The Velasquez of old. Love it.

Men dress in frocks and make a good living talking about this.

You mean paul he sits back and lets us make mistakes?
And because of our mistakes millions pay the price and die a horrible death.
What a wonderful god. A price worth paying is it?
It's a load of codswallop.

akabula
28 Sep 14 18:59
Joined:
13 Mar 08
| Topic/replies: 6,167 | Blogger: akabula's blog
No, because one of these Gods does not stand for killing but love...Simple.

Ah the God of love. Is that the one that presides over the millions who die horrible deaths every year through starvation? Is that the one?



This happens because the government cut peoples dole monies not because god hates us , god gave us lotta monies but government wont share the monies

If God didn't exist man would invent it, maybe we have.

Akubula i guarantee you have related to god in your life at some point for instance a friend or family members death.

Believe in god or not we all reach out for the god at one time

Bollocks

This happens because the government cut peoples dole monies not because god hates us , god gave us lotta monies but government wont share the monies

Maybe he should appoint an assistant to the dole. Maybe a new saint needed.
Arise Saint Francis of Adhssisi.

Jesus Christ lived and died for us. The God of Love is also the God of Justice - he can do no more. The cross reaches out in all directions and dimensions, into the past, present and future. There is no sin or condition of Sin that God cannot accept as long as the true remedy of Jesus' sacrifice is applied.

I would say that the world (and Islam) believe in religion but Jesus Christ does not. This is why Jesus is an OFFENSE to the world. There are the pillars of Islam and muslims have to go through the ritual prayers and deeds each day to try to obtain some sort of righteousness.

In the bible there is nothing you can do to please God - hence, "All your good deeds are like filthy rags..." (Nearly typed WRAGGS there, as in Harry and Geoff...Wrong forum, muppet!)All you can do is accept God's GRACE rather than be condemned by Law or your own faults.

I believe in my God...Prove I am wrong. You can't.
You do not believe in my God (or any other for that matter?). I cannot prove you are wrong either.
I have a faith, you cannot take away from me. I don't want to change your mind either.
I am happy, you are happy... Happy days.........
If only it were that easy

Akubula i guarantee you have related to god in your life at some point for instance a friend or family members death.

Believe in god or not we all reach out for the god at one time

Agreed but that's when we are at our weakest and certainly not thinking straight.

Believe in god or not we all reach out for the god at one time

You clearly do not understand those of us who do not believe any god. It would be akin to calling out to Rupert Bear for help.

What if someone believes in Santa and he has faith, is that okay paul?

anyone who believes in god have some form of mental illness

akabula
28 Sep 14 19:24
Joined:
13 Mar 08
| Topic/replies: 6,172 | Blogger: akabula's blog
This happens because the government cut peoples dole monies not because god hates us , god gave us lotta monies but government wont share the monies

Maybe he should appoint an assistant to the dole. Maybe a new saint needed.
Arise Saint Francis of Adhssisi.


I can run the dole if needs be

Foinavon
28 Sep 14 19:27
Joined:
11 Oct 00
| Topic/replies: 1,604 | Blogger: Foinavon's blog
Believe in god or not we all reach out for the god at one time

You clearly do not understand those of us who do not believe any god. It would be akin to calling out to Rupert Bear for help.


So youve never said when someone passes way he/she with so and so now or anything along they lines

Whats your name on the icke forum?

I have no idea if there is such a thing as God and neither does anyone else .  As humans have only been around for the blink of an eye its unlikely that we've figured it all out and that our opinion won't be different in 10,000 years time.

BTW - I watched MARGIN CALL last night on bbc2 and my ears hurt with the amount of times the name "Jesus Christ" was casually used as a curse or swear word, including "Jesus effing Christ." You have to wonder at that - why is Jesus' name used and no other? These Hollywood scriptwriters have to write that down, hard and fast, before an actor utters that name in such a derogatory manner.

Who is the most hated person that has lived within recent memory? Hitler? Stalin? But no-one uses their names as "cuss" words...no, there's only ONE name used as a curse word because, in the beginning and end, the Alpha and Omega, only ONE name truly matters.

I would say that the world (and Islam) believe in religion but Jesus Christ does not.

This is why I like to read your posts Velasquez, refreshing stuff!

Jesus Christ on a bike!

Foinavon - see "religionless" Christianity / Dietrich Bonhoeffer.

foinavon do you believe in aliens and reptiles

So youve never said when someone passes way he/she with so and so now or anything along they lines

Whats your name on the icke forum?


Of course I don't thechaser. many people that I have known have died including my parents and sister. Death is a necessary part of life and is the only reason that any of us are alive today.

I have never read the Icke forum but I understand that he has some controversial views. Why should it appeal to an atheist?

Faith is a strange concept, up here in Scotland we even had people expressing faith in Salmond.

Thanks Velasquez, I will.

That's quite an interesting phrase Ron...

yes it appeals to atheists , but some believe in other stuff no one else would but then again we cant all believe the same stuff


i go on now and again but dont post , just read some stuff

a top surgeon once said he has never operated on an atheist........they all trun to god in the end.

*turn

foinavon do you believe in aliens and reptiles

I think that there is a possibility that life exists elsewhere in the universe. Since it has occurred here, there is a possibility that it could have appeared elsewhere. It may or may not have evolved to the same stage that it has here. All depends where and when it began.

Reptiles exist here on earth, or haven't you noticed? I often see frogs and toads on my allotment, but not so many this summer as it has been on the dry side.

Wow, DB has been busy Velasquez. He has dozens of books to his name.

Found several which meet your description, which one do you suggest from this list?

http://www.amazon.co.uk/s/ref=nb_sb_ss_i_0_12/275-7543005-4705923?url=search-alias%3Dstripbooks&field-keywords=religionless+christianity&sprefix=religionless%2Cstripbooks%2C234

Why was he imprisoned and for how long?

kweeveen......... the chances of there being a god are still a million to one despite the doctors claims

Christianity and Islam are both derived from the Jewish god which is why it totally confuses me as to why Judaism is hated the World over.

If there is a god he is a very benign one and not concerned with human behaviour.

Agnosticism, in fact, is not a creed, but a method, the essence of which lies in the rigorous application of a single principle ... Positively the principle may be expressed: In matters of the intellect, follow your reason as far as it will take you, without regard to any other consideration. And negatively: In matters of the intellect do not pretend that conclusions are certain which are not demonstrated or demonstrable.

I'd imagine by now, given the complete and utter mess we humans have made of things, God has become his own head in hands man.

What doesn't add up for me is that these theists believe that this extraordinary eternal "being" has created the universe, this planet and every form of diverse life upon it, yet don't find it a bit quirky to think such an unimaginable, omnipotent & omnipresent entity gets his kn1ckers in a twist over such trivia as whether you should lop your foreskin off, eat sausage rolls and engage in bum sex. Let alone whether he gets huffy over being worshiped or not.

Does it matter?

When the coal and oil have all gone, the facking fracking has finished, the world population will have at least doubled itself, and the place will revert to the way it was 10,000 years ago.

The most fertile religion of all will rule the world, and the muslims will be welcome to it by then.

Different Christian groups believe in a different Gods ,same with the Muslims.
It's all faith just as athiesim and belief  in aliens are a form of faith.  It's difficult to prove any of them are 100% correct.  Those who think they are
100% right ( extremist religious groups, Dawkins, L.ron Hubbard)  tend to be the most disturbed as they appear to need to cling to belief in what they consider a certainty ,which is an illusion,and doesn't exsist.

in answer to the original poster, yes. they are the same.

as for blasphemy in films, you should probably blame moses/god.

perhaps he could have scrubbed the lord's name in vain, and had something about not hitting children or raping women in its place (or at least merged 1 and 2 together)

Ovalman. 28 Sep 14 21:34 
Christianity and Islam are both derived from the Jewish god which is why it totally confuses me as to why Judaism is hated the World over.

If there is a god he is a very benign one and not concerned with human behaviour.


that's deism, and i think it's perfectly right to be agnostic and opened minded about it. you could reject on the basis of russell's teapot, but at the same time, an unconcerned entity not revealing itself is entirely consistent with the hypothesis of what it is.

monotheistic religions with a capricious, vengeful, sadistic, lazy, seemingly unconcerned yet simultaenously thought policing and meddling superbeing who for some perverse kick created us imperfect yet demands we resist those imperfections, who also gives a **** about the minutiae of our lives, down to some pretty odd details, is clearly a load of absolute b0ll0cks.

Yes it is the same God.

It`s just that the Muslims believe there is an updated understanding of God(they name Allah)
Muslims will nod there head in acceptance of the prophet Jesus Christ, yet they insist Mohammed is the last prophet so he is the updated truth.

Ask a Muslim, he will tell you the same. One God but different prophets.

They are NOT the same God!

I second Velasquez's comments!

I disagree, so does my Muslim pal.

If you religious types can't agree what chance have the rest of us got?

My God's bigger than your God.

Oh no it's not.

Yes they are the same 'god' - as are all the others - because they are an inevitable result of human evolution.

Tell a muslim Jesus is Gods son  ,they don't like it, tell them JC was God in human form and you start to see what demonic possession looks like

(and if RickyBobby is still about - Dawkins most specifically does NOT claim to be 100% correct).

The Invisible Gardener by John Wisdom

"Two people return to their long neglected garden and find, among the weeds, that a few of the old plants are surprisingly vigorous. One says to the other, 'It must be that a gardener has been coming and doing something about these weeds.' The other disagrees and an argument ensues. They pitch their tents and set a watch. No gardener is ever seen. The believer wonders if there is an invisible gardener, so they patrol with bloodhounds but the bloodhounds never give a cry. Yet the believer remains unconvinced, and insists that the gardener is invisible, has no scent and gives no sound. The skeptic doesn't agree, and asks how a so-called invisible, intangible, elusive gardener differs from an imaginary gardener, or even no gardener at all.

Ivor, Dawkins is admant almost frenzied about there being no God.

He states absolutely, categorically that he is not and cannot ever be 100% sure as it cannot be proved either way and without such evidence he cannot claim 100% certainty.

He speaks as though he's nearly 100% certain, he doesn't speak rationally in terms of there being a decent possibility that there is a God but he favours that there isn't ,his speak is virtually all one way just like all the other fanatics they just just think they are right and the chance of them being wrong is 0 or very close to it.

If you could show any scientific evidence for God whatsoever then there wouldn't be any atheists - Dawkins included.

But ther is no 100% evidence that there is no God.    Belief in God and belief in no God are both Faiths that cann't be proven.

Tell a muslim Jesus is Gods son  ,they don't like it,

Muslims accept Jesus as the prophet as well as other prophets, Moses as well as others, BUT Muslims believe Mohammed was the final prophet, and his message is absolute.

Load of bronze age bollux if you ask me, but this is what the Muslims tell me.

The problem comes when some people in life want near  100% certainty , but it  doesn't exsist . Many cann't cope with uncertainty so stick with the- there is definitely a God or there definitely isn't one ,as its calmer for their brain to think that way , of course it doesn't mean to say its the truth. It could be the  God delusion or the  Atheist Delusion.

So you cannot possibly have any objection to me (100%) and Dawlins (6.9/7) holding our views then.

Free will , people entitled to believe what they want, everyones had different experiences in life draw their own conclusions from.

If people weren't afraid of dying we wouldn't get any of this sh1te.

bigmo........so true

As an atheist, and at my age, used to the idea of death, it doesn't worry me now.

However, I first thought of death when I was about 17 at about 1-00 a.m. lying in bed.  I had trouble envisaging 'not being here' any more, and I don't think I slept all night.

Dependent upon life's experiences, you could get close to it once, but then totally ignore thoughts of it after that.

For me, death is the end, no heaven, no hell, just nothing.

My only concern is that my wife will be okay, as I'm long odds-on to go first.

Are other atheists unconcerned about death?

Very well put CMAT, me too.

I'm no spring chicken either.

i think everyone is pretty scared of dying, we're programmed to try and avoid it, and there's a pretty decent chance that the process won't be pleasant and may not be quick.

but to be afraid of being dead is another thing. as you say CMAT, I think most people are concerned about how those that we love will be without us, but it seems likely that being dead is probably no different to being in a dreamless sleep.

Slightly advanced monkey brains are still to tune in with the cosmos frequency man.

Most older people aren't scared of dying in fact to many it would be seen as a release  ,whatever their beliefs, but they are scared of the pain and possible loss of identity in what leads up to it

In the democracy of the dead, all men are at last equal. There is neither rank nor station nor prerogative in the republic of the grave.

John James Ingalls





So now he is a legend, when he would have preferred to be a man.

Jacqueline Kennedy

I'm not scared of death and in a perverse way would look forward to it if I knew how long I had.  I am however concerned about the manner of my death.  Before my parents died they both said they'd had enough and gave the impression they would welcome the end of life and if I was in either of their situations I would probably feel the same.

What Inglais says is soothing if there is no after life , if there is an afterlife the statement is delusional.

You find out when you die.

Only if there is an afterlife, if there is no afterlife you won't know anything.

Problem solved either way.

The thought of there possibly being an after life worries me more than the thought of there being nothing. Seen some strange things so not sure.

I'm facked if I want to sit on a cloud playing s bastard harp for eternity.

CMaT is wise (occasionally).
Death itself holds no fear - I do fear pain and/or long distressing illness at the end (having seen others close to me suffer) - but even MORE importantly a sadness NOT knowing what happens AFTER my time.
How did my descendants get on in life, how did humans progess, was the BigBang theory ever prooved, did the UK become a Muslim country, would I enjoy 22/23/24th century life or did I enjoy the best decades of all, how did they manage to feed even more billions of humans? etc.etc.

only occasionally?

Had similar thoughts Ivor.  Keep wondering what the climates going to be like here in 100 years time.

If global warming forecasts are correct my house will be under 15 feet of the North Sea.