can you believe in evolution and god??

i was talking to a salvation army woman outside asdas today........she didnt believe in evolution

Yes OP.

Many do as well.

flippin eck!

asda is pre God

God intended that man should have free will, evolution is perhaps the only way that this could be possible.
Evolution is gods way of enabling free will because without evolution free will would not be possible.
Therefore evolution is the mechanism that  God has used to enable us to be free and human and evolution
itself points to the existence of god.....
most people won't understand this.

it would depend on which god you believe in and your interpretation of the associated scriptures.

if you're going with one of the abrahamic religions, it comes down to whether or not your prepared to interpret the creation process allegorically or not.

it's perfectly compatible with other religions, particularly any which are based in deism rather than theism.

God intended that man should have free will, evolution is perhaps the only way that this could be possible.
Evolution is gods way of enabling free will because without evolution free will would not be possible.
Therefore evolution is the mechanism that  God has used to enable us to be free and human and evolution
itself points to the existence of god.....
most people won't understand this.

mainly because it's flawed.

given that man is a product of evolution, for your god to have had any intentions for man would require god to have had to intervene in the evolutionary process to ensure man evolved, thereby undermining the free will you claim the process enabled.

and he must have spent a long time looking at the f*cking dinosaurs before thinking that he needed to get involved.

It is definitely possible to believe in both God and evolution but looking at some of the contributions on this forum over the years my faith in evolution has come under serious scrutiny.

What happened before the big bang?  Someone on chit chat must know.

obviously it is possible.

as it turned out God was a programmer so he could design anything he wanted via maths.

on the first night... he fell asleep at the keyboard

AAAAGGGGGTTTTTCCCCCCCCC......

If "god" is smart enough to create life I'm sure he could have added evolution to the mix.
It's strange that most can't see past the "either or" situation.
Thereagain Man does not have the tools for the job to understand reality as his brain is designed to survive and reproduce. It's like asking him to drink soup with a knife and fork. He'll get a little bit but most is completely beyond him.

I agree.

My view is that a creator would have to come up with at least two essential things to ensure Creation actually went somewhere (though possibly a lot more). Random mutation he’d have to include, if he didn’t want to be continuously monitoring and fixing the life he had created. It future proofs life, to an extent, against catastrophe. But what seems quite clever about it to me is that you don’t even need to know the nature of the future disaster. Like with mosquitoes and DDT. They didn’t know someone would make war on their biology one day, but their biology already had variations ensuring that some didn’t die and then those bred. Now none of them (I assume) are bothered about DDT. Whether they are or not or will be in the future, it is quite brilliant that life has these quirks that allow a lucky few to overcome unforeseen disaster. Horseshoe crabs have survived four of the five mass extinctions, including the Permian one that wiped out 95% of all species.And despite that and the one that followed, we are here and the world's still teeming with life.

The other essential thing, imo, is the Uncertainty Principle, which actually makes the next moment an array of possibilities on every level, from galaxies to bacteria.

These two things together ensure that everything doesn’t just grind to an early predictable halt.

Though tbf I’d probably call myself an atheist at heart, these aspects of the universe look an awful lot like something deliberately designed in to make it endure and be interesting. It’s more a nagging feeling than anything.

98% of living things are exstinct.........thats some design........if youve read the bible do you really thing "that" god could  had anything to do evolution........

have*

Why would a god need millions of years to get things right here on earth. The bible says the earth was created in six days; if your a christian surely you have to believe in the literal truth of the whole of the bible

E.g.  Cliff Richard,....doesn't it state in the text it would be easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven (but he doesn't seem to like that rule so he just ignores it)

if  you don't adhere to the rule that every word is sacra scant your left with a rather pick and mix version of christianty where you can leave out things you personally don't care for.  Is this in reality an ideology atoll?  Aren't you in fact just pleasing yourself about the world we live in  and how you live your life?

As the Bible and all the religous books have been written/translated by a human being I shouldn't take what's in there as totally accurate. You need to look beyond that stuff.

There is not necessarily any conflict -- one can have God create life or the universe or whatever and let evolution take it from there.

Yes. Just accept that everything just "is" and you have it.

with the abrahamic ones, if you fully embrace evolution, you run into some very tricky plot holes.

no moves.......its called cherry picking

"As the Bible and all the religous books have been written/translated by a human being I shouldn't take what's in there as totally accurate. You need to look beyond that stuff."


Doesn't that idea leave it open to simply ignoring bits you take to be written by a man I.e. all of it or at least or the bits you don't like.


The Bible.....However it evolved it is what is and has to be abided by lock stock and barrel or not atoll, surely that's true?

richard dawkins said the chances of a god in his opinion was 1 in 7...........i would put it more like 1 in 10,000

rather lay the 7s

i would lay the 7s till the cows come home

Richard Dawkins has been challenged by many eminent scientists who categorically believe in God having studied the universe for many years.

The Bible.....However it evolved it is what is and has to be abided by lock stock and barrel or not atoll, surely that's true?

Rather difficult to abide by it when it contradicts itself every few pages.
Is it an eye for an eye or do we turn the other cheek?

Or perhaps as we are discussing evolution and creation we have the problem that the Bible cant make up it's mind whether it was Man or the animals which were created first.

GEN 1:25 And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind: and God saw that it was good.
GEN 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

Or is it?

GEN 2:18 And the LORD God said, It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an help meet for him.
GEN 2:19 And out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; and brought them unto Adam to see what he would call them: and whatsoever Adam called every living creature, that was the name thereof.

I believe in evolution and aliens

richard dawkins said the chances of a god in his opinion was 1 in 7...........i would put it more like 1 in 10,000

Surely this is not true! Link, please.

patra.....think he said it on the big question but i cant remember.............but he did say it

alleged...........more chance of "life" on another planet than there being a god

though patra it may well be on the aussie q and a..............watched so many i cant remember

I think he had a scale from 0 to 7 or something, whereby 7 was a definite believer and 0 was a total atheist. Maybe he said he was 1 out of 7 on that scale.

There is certainly more chance of aliens than God imo.

yer he said 1 in 7 but in reality he probably thinks it more like 1 in 100 or even 1 in a 1000..........think he was just trying to be nice to the braindead christians

I would rather not exist than to believe in a God. What's the point in living to march to somebody else's tune, in that sense, nobody is ever truly free. There are very few religious converts which tells you most people believe in what they've been fed since birth, most people's beliefs are not really beliefs, they're inherited family traditions/values based on nothing more than Chinese whispers. If there were a God, then imo, he is evil anyway, as innocent people suffering pain the way they do is unforgivable. If there was no religion the earth would be a much more peaceful place

scan..........the god of the  OT would put hitler to shame in the number of people he had killed

which is why I said it

for alleged
.

Imagine that we humans had created robots that eventually were able to reproduce and improve themselves according to their environment, humans died out and after millions of years the robots came up with a theory of their evolution based on bits of old machines they dug up. Their theory would not in any way disprove the existence of humans. Instead it would be a sign of a higher intelligence that bought them about. Dr Francis Collins who is one of the worlds leading experts on evolution believes that God bought about the human being via the process of evolution.

Whether someone believes in or rejects the theory of evolution as a means to how human beings came in to existence, it does not in any way conflict with belief in God.

scandanavian_haven    17 Sep 14 18:32 
I would rather not exist than to believe in a God. What's the point in living to march to somebody else's tune, in that sense, nobody is ever truly free. There are very few religious converts which tells you most people believe in what they've been fed since birth, most people's beliefs are not really beliefs, they're inherited family traditions/values based on nothing more than Chinese whispers. If there were a God, then imo, he is evil anyway, as innocent people suffering pain the way they do is unforgivable. If there was no religion the earth would be a much more peaceful placeCool

Are you 13???............................

what if god is an alien?

all the great civilisations from around the world point to the sky, be it in pictures,carvings, stories or monuments, coincidence??

how can we know what is out in space when we don't know what is in our own oceans

all the great civilisations from around the world point to the sky, be it in pictures,carvings, stories or monuments, coincidence??

Unfortunately, as yet, there is no evidence of any of these great civilizations being based in Cardiff.

Are you 13???............................

no

Unfortunately, as yet, there is no evidence of any of these great civilizations being based in Cardiff.

God doesn't believe in evolution, or He would have told us! So the answer to the original queation is "No"!

clouseau.....what about kent..where I live??

AMAZINGLY - people have a short memory EVOLUTION THEORY was not invented by
Charles Darwin.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_evolutionary_thought

Some of the proponents were christian.

Darwin himself talks a lot about GOD. But could not reconcile the death of his daughter
at an early age to a kind benevolent god. Man judging God?

As a 13 year old Catholic Alter Boy who attended a non Catholic School and had just started studying evolution, I asked my Priest this very question. This was over 30 years ago, " I asked as God created Man in his own image, does that mean God was an Ape as evolution now proves". His reply was " as man evolved so did God, and God is what man believes him to look like". I thought clever answer, but a Cop out.

Even many who believe God did create the world, also believe that evolution then happened from there on.

If you want to go further back and study the early universe, it is easy enough to say God triggered the big bang. It does not really make much difference whether we (or our top scientists) are grappling with the natural laws of physics and elementary particles, or the divinely-created laws of physics and elementary particles.

Paddy Hair - God created man in his own image.
Jesus said God is Spirit. So God created man in Spirit.
When he ate of the fruit he died. His spirit died.
He realized at this point he was naked. Not before?
Shame set in because of sin.
the first sin was pride - To be like God, to know all things.
Today most people do not find God because their pride birthed
from knowledge stops them investing time to know God.

http://creation.com/greater-than-98-chimp-human-dna-similarity-not-any-more
updated to 95 percent similarity to chimps.


So can a mouse evolve into a chimp - there is only a three percent gap?
Five percent gap between man and chimp?


Humans have 23 pairs of chromosomes while chimpanzees have 24

Another human?100% .
A chimpanzee?     95%.
A mouse?     92%
A fruit fly?     44%
Yeast?     26%
a Weed 18%
a banana 50%

75% of mouse genes have equivalents in humans (source), 90% of the mouse genome could
be lined up with a region on the human genome (source) 99% of mouse genes turn out to have
analogues in humans (source)

You can believe in evolution as a code written by a creator, but 'God' comes from religion which is early man's interpretation of events based on little available evidence.

So people assume they are here so therefore some(thing) created the experience, this may or may not be true, reality could be as ethereal as the ambiguous fabrication that religion refers to as 'free will'.

Free will is just cause and effect, the more data collected the more accurate the prediction of future outcomes.
What people do or don't do is directly relevant to the chemical structures present in their brains and the rewards that are experienced by certain outcomes (and the relevance of those rewards).

People like to think they are individual but there won't be long before everything about a person can be logged down in something akin to binary and 'personality' predicted.

This is the reality of free will IMO.

You are in a room with a choice to sit or stand.
'You' think you make the choice to do one or the other at face value, but in reality 'you' don't.

It's a question of logic.
Are you tired?
Is there a chair?
Do you have the time?

Your conscience is just the collective of all the things that are defined as 'you' , which actually include more cells that are parasitic and not attributable to you and which you have no control over but add to the final outcome of what 'you' do.

When the bible was written they couldn't possible know this, so they called it free will.

We are all trying to assess this with slightly advanced primate brains.

hth

EARLY MAN? Right...

please explain the massive hike in brain quality between the Greek
civilization up to the year 1700 AD.
Our tools got better. The Industrial revolution and steam power ushered
in a technical revolution, but the brain is pretty much the same.

The great leap in Mankind was the result of the ice receding and
crop growing. the population exploded because of increased social-ability.

5000 years ago most of the UK was under three metres of ice.

it's only a string of 80 people back to Christ's day.
(say you live to 25 and have a son, he does the same... 4 per century x 20 = 80)

I doubt that 99 percent of the people today can talk like Christ.
buy a quotation book from a book store and it's full of his quotes.
He spoke Greek, Hebrew and Aramaic to the people he met.

Early man could be reference to the time pre renaissance, where science had practical discoveries based on the universe that we exist within.
People two thousand years ago didn't know about molecular physics for eg, even 200 years ago they didn't.
Now we know that endorphins shape the personality from a pleasure reward perspective.
People do what they do as a result of the chemicals released in their brains.

If a person believes religion to be true for eg then living a righteous existence is meaningful and virtuous, the feel good factor is created within themselves. Something that appears greater than the sum of its parts.

As for Jesus, he was a cynic philosopher mistaken for something people wanted him to be IMO.
Whether it was Socrates plea to not avenge injustice or Diogenes request to discard money most of jesus's work can be traced to 500 years before his birth.

So Jesus was brought up in a greek Library? Was that the one that was
burnt to the ground in Alexandria?

So feelings are just chemicals - so nobody loves their parents or children.
Nobody likes to look after strangers?
When your parents die.. . you can say FK 'em they had their time.
What chemicals is it that makes you love and what chemical makes you hate?

Knowledge is gained slowly - standing on the shoulders of giants.
Einstein admitted he could not have come up with anything without the work
of James Clerk Maxwell, and Maxwell would be lost without the early pioneers
in the field of eletricity. Men noticing that a frog twitches after death.
Simple things lead on to ever more complexity.
a frog to the universal theory in 250 years.

dustybin -

a corporation, Komar & Melamid, Inc., that had as its purpose “the buying and selling of human souls.” They bought several hundred souls, including Andy Warhol’s (who sold it to them for free), which was smuggled into Russia and then sold for 30 rubles. - wiki -

I'm pretty sure you could sell your fictitious soul to someone? pure profit.

Teilhard de Chardin.

End of.

Start off..

Zorro
Reality that you and I experience is a simplification of millions of calculations that are subconsciously constantly occurring.
You may romanticise events like love or hate but they are ethereal 'end games', things that have causes and effects that culminate in the experience that is given a name by humans to attempt to reference.

When you love for eg it's a long developed feeling, a reaction to stimulus that has grown around reward of something which you now arbitrarily call 'love'.
The experience you refer to regarding parents is the culmination of dopamine release in the brain that occurs whenever your eyes, ears or smell senses a member of family you have grown familiar with and who is associated with safety etc.

Jesus was born within four miles of a known cynic collective, the Christians attempt to argue that there is no evidence of influence because nothing is documented about a meeting.
It didn't have to be.
Diogenes never for eg wrote anything down, it was all verbal in the form of spear he's to the community. Do people honestly think that the message never got to Jesus?
Get real.