Oh dear Alias you can't help yourself can you.

Jim Murphy is Labour and he's flying the Union flag.
George Galloway is also flying the Union flag and I don't think he's a Tory either.
So not sure there is any compulsion on you being a Tory if you fly the Union flag.

And the great irony is that the vote will almost certainly be decided by them.

Michty me Eo, he's already lost a parcel of weight.

akabula, we all know how the Tories used the union flag in Thatcher's time. As for Galloway, a man I admittedly admired for different reasons in the past, how would you square his differing attitudes to Scotland and Ireland? He's on the No side in the land of his birth, but firmly in favour of a united Ireland, the land of his forebears. In order to complete a unified Ireland, you'd have to have either a) a Dublin govt applying to rejoin the UK (kinda unlikely imo), or b) N Ireland SEPARATING from the UK.

Tell me how it works.

O.P. - Case of 'Annus Horribilis' ..........again then!

Thatcher and her legacy are still relevant for many akabula, and IF you were a Labour supporter you'd know that for sure.


Labour voting No = turkey voting for Christmas. I've never rated Johann Lamont, but I'd rather have her as PM running an independent Scotland than any Tory doing it from Westminster. That's the choice, pick your own govt or let right wingers in the SE do it for you.

It's not my life that concerns me, but the thousands and thousands she ruined. I was lucky, and unlike some I can see further than the end of my nose and care about more than the level of my personal wealth. That's what divides us. How long have you lived in Scotland? Try a quick poll and see how "loved" she is. About as popular here as she was/is in Buenos Aires.

Hitler "left office" 69 years ago, but lots of people remember what a **** he was.

akabula, you've lost it. The Tories DID use the flag for their own purposes, no possible argument there.

As for my reference to Hitler, you've made a very poor attempt to twist what I said. Eo suggested we should forget Thatcher's damage because it was 20 years ago, and I pointed out that Hitler's demise was much farther in the past, yet we shouldn't forget that either. If you can't understand that, that's your problem. Maybe you're really a Thatcher lover of course. Your Olympic reference is absurd.

The pound is a red herring because Ireland used it for 7 years after it became independent, so there is a precedent.
Scotland doesn't get the policies it needs eg fisheries and agricultural. This is dictated by Westminster and usually governed by a party the majority of Scots have not voted for.
Scotland has a track record of innovation and invention (Scots have 1.5% of global patents}
Scotland will not need to go down the fracking route, unlike other parts of the UK). Gassification of Scotland's North Sea coalfields will provide cheaper energy than westminsters plan to frack the living daylights out of England which has unknown long term consequences.
Scotland has a large land mass in comparison to its population and could feed itself if need be.

My point was that you implied because I was 'flying' the Union flag I must be a Tory.

Ah, now I see. You're a Labour supporter voting No so that Scotland can be ruled by a Tory party we always vote massively against, right? I've heard of sleeping with the enemy, but . . . . . . .

That should read

So all Labour supporters will vote Yes?

My point was that you implied because I was 'flying' the Union flag I must be a Tory.

Ah, now I see. You're a Labour supporter voting No so that Scotland can be ruled by a Tory party we always vote massively against, right? I've heard of sleeping with the enemy, but . . . . . . .

Stop avoiding the point Alias.
You are suggesting that no Labour supporter would oppose independence so again I ask what about the Labour Party?

Patience is a virtue!

You are suggesting that no Labour supporter would oppose independence so again I ask what about the Labour Party?
(Not sure of the significance of your three laughing faces.)

I'm avoiding nothing, unlike you.
No. I am suggesting that no Labour supporter SHOULD oppose independence. If they do, i.e. vote no, they are in effect enabling a Tory govt, thus turkeys voting for Christmas. Surely even you can understand that.


Now, please re-read my post of 09:14 yesterday. An answer would be appreciated.

akabula, are you on the windup or just daft?

The Tories hijacked the flag and used it as a party emblem. NO, you don't HAVE to be a Tory to use it, but by association you may be seen to be. (See previous sentence.)

You obfuscate about your party allegiance. You've denied being a Tory. Are you going to declare?

And once again: I've never been impressed with Johann Lamont, but I'd rather have her as PM at Holyrood running Scotland than any Tory doing it from Westminster. How about you?

Your turn to answer.

At the last census I think it was 61% that defined themselves as Scottish Only.

In the last few decades the vast majority have voted for centre-left parties (or parties that claim to be or should be).

Those two things combined mean that independence should be a foregone conclusion when it clearly isn't. Personally those are the two most important issues by far, almost making everything else irrelevant in my mind. Maybe I have over-simplified it but it is a simple thing to me.

Alot of the things I hear are from people who are Scottish and left leaning who imo are looking for excuses because they don't have the balls; they would rather blame the big bad Tories than take responsibility and look in the mirror if it's not going well, the same way football managers blame the ref for their plight. That might be harsh but that's how I see it. Some of the stuff I have heard has been utter nonsense.

Obviously I don't mean yourself as you would describe yourself as in some way British which many people will base their no vote on and rightly so.

The Bitter Torygether mob are in a tizz over the NHS. Alexander won't admit that privatisation is ongoing in England, while Andy Burnham does. They repeat ad nauseum that the NHS is fully devolved, but ignore the fact that in the next round of austerity, the block grant will be reduced thus forcing cuts on Scotland, NHS et al.

@ Alias Who the **** do you think you are to demand someone tell you what their political leanings are on a forum. WTF business is that of yours.
As regards your second point I have answered that already but here goes again. I want the Union to remain so no matter who you quote I don't want to be governed by Holyrood. As regards a Tory government then as long as it has been democratically voted in I will obviously go along with that.
Lets think over what Labour governments have done for us in recent times. Took us into wars, sold all our gold at knockdown prices and set the scene for an economic collapse. Yes good old Labour we can trust them. Can't we?

where did Charlie get his dozen or so medals from?


For banging Camilla?

Emden? very, very