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29 Jul 14
12:40
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27 May 11
What's your take on wheat, should wheat be avoided all together and if so, what foods could you replace it with to stave on the cravings for it ? Was reading a double page spread on it today and in a nutshell it is proclaimed to be evil, the source of modern day health problems, diabetes, heart disease, depression, obesity etc, scaremongering or truthful? If you've been avoiding wheat for a while has it genuinely improved your well being/health, do you have more energy etc ? tia
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there are probably three areas.
one is the gluten. gluten is a protein present in wheat. coeliac disease is a autoimmune disorder affecting some individuals. it is triggered by ingesting gluten with a largely well understood pathology that can be tested for.
then there's wheat/gluten intolerance, which is a much greyer area and not readily understood or possible to classify. in some cases it may be that the symptoms are not attributable to the wheat itself but what is added to it (yeast may be a culprit)
then there's starch (which is just a glucose polymer) in the absence of fibre, which slows down absorption of the sugar. that's the same reason why fruit juice isn't great. 20 apples is much less damaging than the filtered juice from 20 apples.
and as for djokovic, the readiness with which he told everyone about his gluten free diet and CVAC pod sessions as an explanation for a question which wasn't being directly asked (i.e. his rather sudden increase in stamina) along with another example of answering a question he wasn't asked by Courier at the end of an AO match smacks of someone hiding something.
one is the gluten. gluten is a protein present in wheat. coeliac disease is a autoimmune disorder affecting some individuals. it is triggered by ingesting gluten with a largely well understood pathology that can be tested for.
then there's wheat/gluten intolerance, which is a much greyer area and not readily understood or possible to classify. in some cases it may be that the symptoms are not attributable to the wheat itself but what is added to it (yeast may be a culprit)
then there's starch (which is just a glucose polymer) in the absence of fibre, which slows down absorption of the sugar. that's the same reason why fruit juice isn't great. 20 apples is much less damaging than the filtered juice from 20 apples.
and as for djokovic, the readiness with which he told everyone about his gluten free diet and CVAC pod sessions as an explanation for a question which wasn't being directly asked (i.e. his rather sudden increase in stamina) along with another example of answering a question he wasn't asked by Courier at the end of an AO match smacks of someone hiding something.
Plenty of alternative grains to wheat out there: porridge oats for breakfast, oatcakes instead of slices of bread.
Then there's rye. Lidl bake fresh rye loaves at the same price as wheat loaves. Or if you're stuck with Tesco etc., which don't stock rye bread, then you can try Ryvita or own-brand equivalents.
If you're flush, try sourdough bread baked with rye flour, which is pricey, but never seems to go stale and has a wonderful tangy taste. There's a stall at Taunton's farmers market which supplies it. Or bake your own as per Foinavon's excellent recipe on another thread.
I don't want to get into the argument of whether wheat is bad for you, unless you're genuinely allergic to it. I happen to like porridge oats, oatcakes and ryebread, so I eat them for that reason.
Most nutrition comes down to chemical and metabolic reactions in your body, i.e. it depends on what else you're consuming or how else you're living and how they all combine. Statistics are no more than a evidence of paths for further investigation in this respect. You can't just say wheat (or anything else) raises your risk of obesity, heart disease or whatever by x per cent.
Similarly you can't lay down lists of vitamins, minerals, sugars, fats etc. and say you need definite quantities of each to be healthy, as it's the combinations of these, their chemical reactions and the use to which we put them in our bodies via exercise and rest which determines their effect. Even then you can consume equal quantities of beneficial substances, e.g. iron, from vegetables and from meat and find you've assimilated virtually none from the vegetables but plenty from the meat, because they're present in different compounds in the vegetables from those in the meat.
Then there's rye. Lidl bake fresh rye loaves at the same price as wheat loaves. Or if you're stuck with Tesco etc., which don't stock rye bread, then you can try Ryvita or own-brand equivalents.
If you're flush, try sourdough bread baked with rye flour, which is pricey, but never seems to go stale and has a wonderful tangy taste. There's a stall at Taunton's farmers market which supplies it. Or bake your own as per Foinavon's excellent recipe on another thread.
I don't want to get into the argument of whether wheat is bad for you, unless you're genuinely allergic to it. I happen to like porridge oats, oatcakes and ryebread, so I eat them for that reason.
Most nutrition comes down to chemical and metabolic reactions in your body, i.e. it depends on what else you're consuming or how else you're living and how they all combine. Statistics are no more than a evidence of paths for further investigation in this respect. You can't just say wheat (or anything else) raises your risk of obesity, heart disease or whatever by x per cent.
Similarly you can't lay down lists of vitamins, minerals, sugars, fats etc. and say you need definite quantities of each to be healthy, as it's the combinations of these, their chemical reactions and the use to which we put them in our bodies via exercise and rest which determines their effect. Even then you can consume equal quantities of beneficial substances, e.g. iron, from vegetables and from meat and find you've assimilated virtually none from the vegetables but plenty from the meat, because they're present in different compounds in the vegetables from those in the meat.
In regards to how sustainable it is to go wheat-free and what do you eat instead.
Yes it can seem daunting because wheat is so pervasive but you’re thinking with your old sugar-addicted brain here. Once it is out of your system, which is around five to seven days, you no longer crave it. In my opinion the thing to do is to snack on foods low on the glycemic index, that’s why I suggest cheese and nuts – any kind of nuts as long as they are whole (and also not cashews). For breakfast you could eat instead of cereal a range of nuts, whole milk with either some berries or a few prunes. Egg and bacon is perfectly acceptable. At lunch times I often eat some left over spinach, cauliflower, broccoli with some hard boiled eggs drizzled in olive oil, which replaces sandwiches for me. I then don’t get sleepy and wake up needing a cup of tea and some biscuits (wheat), feeling groggy and anxious. This is just a sign of low blood sugar after the insulin response to the sandwiches causes fat storage triggered by the high sugar levels in the bread.
I also eat chocolate, not in large quantities, but Lindt 90% cacao – very low sugar.
I make sauces, which usually require flour but you can buy almond flour although I use chickpea flour, which is not low on the glycemic index, but I don’t use much of it.
For main meals, just like anyone else as long as there’s no wheat, it’s not a very big difference.
I think you have to accept that you’ll need to increase fat and I know it can be hard to let go of the dogma that it is bad for you, but I’m as slim as I have ever been – I was 11.5 stone, 6ft, slim, but with a tyre and boobs despite that. The increase in good fats (cheese, butter, eggs, meat with the fat on) satiates you more easily, doesn’t raise insulin hardly at all and you forget about wheat and you get slimmer.
It is interesting about Djokovic, I knew he was low carb and haven’t read his book about his gluten free diet, but it sounds to me like he’s on a ketogenic diet, which is actually what I follow. Basically you make the body burn ketones instead of glucose, but you can’t do that if you're still eating wheat because it is so high in carbohydrate. Why would he do that? It’s the fact that when you produce ketones you have unlimited access to fat for burning, whereas when you burn glucose you have a limit before you hit the wall and that’s it and you run out of glycogen. It gives him a big advantage in stamina, if that is indeed what he’s doing.
You should have a look at this woman. Now I know she’s a little (possibly very) irritating at first, but she knows her stuff and – she’s 47. Just to be clear, this woman cannot do cardio because of a smashed up knee and she’s on a low carb, high fat diet with no wheat or gluten. She looks like she does on a high fat low carb. She doesn’t look like she’s going to keel over anytime soon from the effects of fat.
.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i6afiprUPRA
Finally back to wheat, I gave up wheat not having read Wheat Belly or the problems with gluten. I gave it up because I read a study suggesting it could be responsible for bowel complaints, which I was having problems with (IBS, constipation etc). I have given up every food in my life to try to fix it but never wheat because I totally believed the ‘healthy wholegrain’ message.
Within about a week I was much better, but to my complete surprise it has gotten rid of years and years of back, neck, hip, leg and knee aches. For the last 3 years I have woken every morning around 4am with a bad back. I was unable to put my arms behind my head on the pillow or lay on my right side. I woke up on the 8th morning of not eating wheat at 7.30am having slept the entire night and with no pain whatsoever. I feel like I have got new arms and legs, I don’t groan when I get up or down, I don’t have lower back pain when I lean over the washbasin, it’s incredible. I’m much more solid mentally, the fog has lifted and it’s much harder for something to knock me off balance mentally. In fact if you read what Djokovic says or William Davis in Wheat Belly or any of the people that have tried giving up wheat very many of them say the same things.
It really makes me laugh when people try to dismiss the claims about wheat from their armchairs. COBBLERS, I say. Just try it and tell me you feel no benefit whatsoever. Just to make it clear I have never been gluten intolerant, I loved it. But without it I am much better, stronger, faster – like Steve Austin. Seriously though, just try it for 10 days, I don’t reckon you even need a month. You have to be scrupulous, read the labels and don’t think you can get a way with a little gluten, you can’t.
Yes it can seem daunting because wheat is so pervasive but you’re thinking with your old sugar-addicted brain here. Once it is out of your system, which is around five to seven days, you no longer crave it. In my opinion the thing to do is to snack on foods low on the glycemic index, that’s why I suggest cheese and nuts – any kind of nuts as long as they are whole (and also not cashews). For breakfast you could eat instead of cereal a range of nuts, whole milk with either some berries or a few prunes. Egg and bacon is perfectly acceptable. At lunch times I often eat some left over spinach, cauliflower, broccoli with some hard boiled eggs drizzled in olive oil, which replaces sandwiches for me. I then don’t get sleepy and wake up needing a cup of tea and some biscuits (wheat), feeling groggy and anxious. This is just a sign of low blood sugar after the insulin response to the sandwiches causes fat storage triggered by the high sugar levels in the bread.
I also eat chocolate, not in large quantities, but Lindt 90% cacao – very low sugar.
I make sauces, which usually require flour but you can buy almond flour although I use chickpea flour, which is not low on the glycemic index, but I don’t use much of it.
For main meals, just like anyone else as long as there’s no wheat, it’s not a very big difference.
I think you have to accept that you’ll need to increase fat and I know it can be hard to let go of the dogma that it is bad for you, but I’m as slim as I have ever been – I was 11.5 stone, 6ft, slim, but with a tyre and boobs despite that. The increase in good fats (cheese, butter, eggs, meat with the fat on) satiates you more easily, doesn’t raise insulin hardly at all and you forget about wheat and you get slimmer.
It is interesting about Djokovic, I knew he was low carb and haven’t read his book about his gluten free diet, but it sounds to me like he’s on a ketogenic diet, which is actually what I follow. Basically you make the body burn ketones instead of glucose, but you can’t do that if you're still eating wheat because it is so high in carbohydrate. Why would he do that? It’s the fact that when you produce ketones you have unlimited access to fat for burning, whereas when you burn glucose you have a limit before you hit the wall and that’s it and you run out of glycogen. It gives him a big advantage in stamina, if that is indeed what he’s doing.
You should have a look at this woman. Now I know she’s a little (possibly very) irritating at first, but she knows her stuff and – she’s 47. Just to be clear, this woman cannot do cardio because of a smashed up knee and she’s on a low carb, high fat diet with no wheat or gluten. She looks like she does on a high fat low carb. She doesn’t look like she’s going to keel over anytime soon from the effects of fat.
.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i6afiprUPRA
Finally back to wheat, I gave up wheat not having read Wheat Belly or the problems with gluten. I gave it up because I read a study suggesting it could be responsible for bowel complaints, which I was having problems with (IBS, constipation etc). I have given up every food in my life to try to fix it but never wheat because I totally believed the ‘healthy wholegrain’ message.
Within about a week I was much better, but to my complete surprise it has gotten rid of years and years of back, neck, hip, leg and knee aches. For the last 3 years I have woken every morning around 4am with a bad back. I was unable to put my arms behind my head on the pillow or lay on my right side. I woke up on the 8th morning of not eating wheat at 7.30am having slept the entire night and with no pain whatsoever. I feel like I have got new arms and legs, I don’t groan when I get up or down, I don’t have lower back pain when I lean over the washbasin, it’s incredible. I’m much more solid mentally, the fog has lifted and it’s much harder for something to knock me off balance mentally. In fact if you read what Djokovic says or William Davis in Wheat Belly or any of the people that have tried giving up wheat very many of them say the same things.
It really makes me laugh when people try to dismiss the claims about wheat from their armchairs. COBBLERS, I say. Just try it and tell me you feel no benefit whatsoever. Just to make it clear I have never been gluten intolerant, I loved it. But without it I am much better, stronger, faster – like Steve Austin. Seriously though, just try it for 10 days, I don’t reckon you even need a month. You have to be scrupulous, read the labels and don’t think you can get a way with a little gluten, you can’t.
about a year ago I started a predominantly paleo diet although I do have bread on occasions at the weekend as a treat now. It's surprising how quickly toast or a sarnie becomes much more delicious when it's taken rarely.
I've found it's made a big big difference.
I gradually lost weight but the increase in energy was very noticeable.
I'd recommend cutting out or at least drastically reducing grains, although the standard paleo diet advises pulses should be eliminated too. There also seems to be varying opinions re rice. Some paleo bods saying it's a grain and others an aquatic grass which is ok to eat. I personally eat rice quite a lot.
I've found it's made a big big difference.
I gradually lost weight but the increase in energy was very noticeable.
I'd recommend cutting out or at least drastically reducing grains, although the standard paleo diet advises pulses should be eliminated too. There also seems to be varying opinions re rice. Some paleo bods saying it's a grain and others an aquatic grass which is ok to eat. I personally eat rice quite a lot.
Flower myth what would you have for an evening meal??
Tonight I am planning on having two chicken thighs, with the skin on. I’ll be having a small amount of red onion, a little red pepper, loads of mushrooms and maybe a little steamed cauliflower and broccoli, or I might not bother with that if I have some lunch time. I’ll make a simple parsley-ish sauce, with butter, whole fat milk, chickpea flower and whatever herbs or spices I feel like chucking in.
I forgot to add, I eat it rarely but Quinoa is a pseudograin that's highly thought of by many. You can have it for breakfast or with your evening meal, you can toast it, or you can prepare it the normal way then toast it. I tend to avoid it because it does cause some irritation for me at times and it's also high carb. But if your giving up wheat, and although Dr Davis doesn't think you should eat it, it's still quite a useful protein-rich food that you can use to replace some of your wheat intake.
Do you drink alcohol?
Also are things like cream ok for making sauces??
Also are things like cream ok for making sauces??
Before you stop eating certain foods it's wise to establish if the foods you suspect are really making you ill.
The gold standard for establishing food intolerances is to go on an elimination diet.
Many people have had their lives changed by simply eliminating stuff from their diets. And made their GPs look like monkeys in the process.
The gold standard for establishing food intolerances is to go on an elimination diet.
Many people have had their lives changed by simply eliminating stuff from their diets. And made their GPs look like monkeys in the process.
An elimination diet is how I came to be wheat free, so yes very good advice. To be fair to GPs, they have to cover so broad a base. But when someone comes to them with depression, do they ever ask what they are eating? Do they suggest wheat elimination? Probably not as often as writing a prescription for valium or whatever.
And yes, to Money Tree. I haven't touched my beloved whisky since Christmas, we'll have to see on that one. But I do drink red wine. Cream is fine yes.
And yes, to Money Tree. I haven't touched my beloved whisky since Christmas, we'll have to see on that one. But I do drink red wine. Cream is fine yes.
Cheers flower been feeling lethargic recently and was told to cut down on alcohol which I have lucky if I drink more than twice a month now but
It's made no difference. I don't binge drink when I go have a couple either.
Wondered if it could be diet linked.
It's made no difference. I don't binge drink when I go have a couple either.
Wondered if it could be diet linked.
Where did you get the elimination diet from FlowerMyth?
I used the one in Doctor Mansfield's book The Migraine Revolution. That was 25 years ago. It's probably out of print now.
One thing about food intolerances is that you can build up a resistance to them once you stopped eating them.
And if you've eliminated a food for a considerable time you'll find that you don't react at all unless you go back to eating it regularly.
I used the one in Doctor Mansfield's book The Migraine Revolution. That was 25 years ago. It's probably out of print now.
One thing about food intolerances is that you can build up a resistance to them once you stopped eating them.
And if you've eliminated a food for a considerable time you'll find that you don't react at all unless you go back to eating it regularly.
I just made up my own based on a studies I came across about bowel/digestive conditions that eliminated chocolate, dairy, tomatoes, there was something else and wheat. I started last August after being constantly messed up since Easter 2013. I was eating tons of tomatoes, which I love but I have felt before they don’t really suit me. When I reintroduced them they made me bad again, In fact all but the dairy causes me problems, for some reason I seem fine on dairy. I can eat little chocolate, like say 90% Lindt I can get away with. I don’t eat tomatoes or wheat at all now, I’ve forgotten what the other thing was, which I probably didn’t eat any way, might have been eggs but at the time I had the mortal fear of eggs from our health advice, I eat them now.
I don’t know if it is connected, mentioning migraines, I’ve been having visual migraines for about 5 years, but not any since I gave up wheat – may be totally unrelated though, as I ate wheat before 5 years and didn’t have them then.
I don’t know if it is connected, mentioning migraines, I’ve been having visual migraines for about 5 years, but not any since I gave up wheat – may be totally unrelated though, as I ate wheat before 5 years and didn’t have them then.
Actually that's not quite true, I should point out I didn't leave out wheat until Feb this year as I simply couldn't believe it was cause and I feared I might be a whole lot worse without it, I was afraid to give it up. Although I was better without tomatoes and chocolate it was actually the wheat elimination that very quickly got me back to normal, I was really looking for tomatoes to be the smoking gun and didn't want to believe it was wheat.
Yet more, I actually started a diary on Feb 19th on my computer precisely to keep track of what I was eating and its effect on me for the very reason above - that it is easy to forget what you did and when and how it affected me, you tend to compress and exaggerate otherwise.
Have cut out bread and cereals but struggling to give up the pasta.
some excellent posts, learn a lot in a day. will let you know in a month if there are changes, literally thrown out cereals and the white bread already,
I had a health checkup a few months ago where I was given a bit of a fright by the doctor who said I was at very high risk of diabetes. I'd never considered myself overweight but I have developed a beer gut which I've now had for nearly 20 years. Anyway, point is I've never been on any diet and never believed in them. But this diabetes warning made me do a bit of research. During that research I discovered a seminar given by a nutritionist called Dr John Briffa. You can see the whole talk here :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t1tPkRJ3W_Q
It's a long talk but stick with it, set aside some time to watch it. It's very compelling. He explains the problems with our modern diet, the stranglehold the food industry has over society, and why all these diets are doomed to failure. What he proposes isn't so much a diet, but more of a lifestyle choice to avoid processed foods, especially carbs and sugar which drive insulin levels (and that is what tells the body to store fat, instead of burning it). He explains why fat isn't fattening and also talks about intermittent fasting. He claims his method is 100% effective for weight loss in men (apparently women have a harder time losing weight because of their biology). Anyway, I tried it - I cut right back on the carbs (no bread, no cereals, and very little potatoes, pasta, rice), stopped drinking fruit juices (drinking only water, milk, or tea) and instead ate a lot more eggs, meat and poultry, and veg. I still eat dairy (cheese and full fat milk) and eat fruit but not the same ones as before (some are overloaded with sugar). Also cut out biscuits and instead snack on nuts. I still eat some chocolate but its dark (80% or higher).
Within 2 weeks I'd lost half a stone. A month later it was 10 pounds. And it was staying off. 3 months on I've lost 16 pounds, and I'm lighter than I've been since I was in my early 20s. People have noticed a difference and none of my trousers fit me anymore. Sorry if I'm sounding like a weightwatchers advert but what can I say? It works. And that's before I even start on any serious exercise program.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t1tPkRJ3W_Q
It's a long talk but stick with it, set aside some time to watch it. It's very compelling. He explains the problems with our modern diet, the stranglehold the food industry has over society, and why all these diets are doomed to failure. What he proposes isn't so much a diet, but more of a lifestyle choice to avoid processed foods, especially carbs and sugar which drive insulin levels (and that is what tells the body to store fat, instead of burning it). He explains why fat isn't fattening and also talks about intermittent fasting. He claims his method is 100% effective for weight loss in men (apparently women have a harder time losing weight because of their biology). Anyway, I tried it - I cut right back on the carbs (no bread, no cereals, and very little potatoes, pasta, rice), stopped drinking fruit juices (drinking only water, milk, or tea) and instead ate a lot more eggs, meat and poultry, and veg. I still eat dairy (cheese and full fat milk) and eat fruit but not the same ones as before (some are overloaded with sugar). Also cut out biscuits and instead snack on nuts. I still eat some chocolate but its dark (80% or higher).
Within 2 weeks I'd lost half a stone. A month later it was 10 pounds. And it was staying off. 3 months on I've lost 16 pounds, and I'm lighter than I've been since I was in my early 20s. People have noticed a difference and none of my trousers fit me anymore. Sorry if I'm sounding like a weightwatchers advert but what can I say? It works. And that's before I even start on any serious exercise program.
Well done, Platini.
I'll check the youtube video out.
Some great posts on this thread.
I'll check the youtube video out.
Some great posts on this thread.
When I was a lot younger, I always ran up the stairs - recent years have found me walking (dragging really at times up the stairs). I have given up all wheat products for a while now and...guess what? I am running up the stairs again. (Still enjoy a daily glass or two of Wine though. Happy with that actually.
As a slight aside but somewhat related we went to see the best spinal specialist in the north on behalf of the wife about 15 years ago. She'd been through all kinds of specialists and this was the first person to sit us down and give it to us straight. There was no pot of gold at the end of the rainbow and anybody who told us there was was essentially a charlatan. He told us that in such things, as a profession, we are still in the stone age. I respected his candour. I don't think diet is a million miles away from this. We are and will continue to learn about diet over the next decades and will probably never know everything.
Being from a nursing background originally and seeing the changes in our society over the last 30 years I can't help but get the feeling that the food industry has got the populace by the balls and the government has been complicit in so many senses because they don't allow teachers to educate. They expect them to churn out obedient workers rather than innovative thinkers.
My suggestion to people is to learn to think innovatively and don't believe what you are told. Research for yourselves. For what it is worth this is what I'd suggest:
Sugar, sugar, sugar. I mention it three times and it could have been five because as things stand this one is the biggie. Not only does it turn you into a junkie with all the resultant detrimental effects but the food industry are well aware of this and mug you accordingly. I won't begin to list all the negative effects it has on the body and brain in particular because if you aren't preapred to research it yourself then look forward to getting fat and dying early.
Similarly we are now with wheat where we were with sugar over 20 years ago. Some of the research into this is staggering in the way processed wheat acts in very similar ways in terms of how the brain reacts to it. Be careful. You can live a perfectly happy and fully nutritiously balanced diet either with a very low wheat intake or without it altogether. However, be prepared for just how much of your normal daily intake is based around wheat currently.
Outside of that there are so many other things surrounding eating fresh and not processed even down to the fact that with sugar there are in effect "good" sugars and "bad" sugars which in essence turn you into a sugar junky.
And don't forget to drink plnety of good clean water and wannk at least three times a day.
Being from a nursing background originally and seeing the changes in our society over the last 30 years I can't help but get the feeling that the food industry has got the populace by the balls and the government has been complicit in so many senses because they don't allow teachers to educate. They expect them to churn out obedient workers rather than innovative thinkers.
My suggestion to people is to learn to think innovatively and don't believe what you are told. Research for yourselves. For what it is worth this is what I'd suggest:
Sugar, sugar, sugar. I mention it three times and it could have been five because as things stand this one is the biggie. Not only does it turn you into a junkie with all the resultant detrimental effects but the food industry are well aware of this and mug you accordingly. I won't begin to list all the negative effects it has on the body and brain in particular because if you aren't preapred to research it yourself then look forward to getting fat and dying early.
Similarly we are now with wheat where we were with sugar over 20 years ago. Some of the research into this is staggering in the way processed wheat acts in very similar ways in terms of how the brain reacts to it. Be careful. You can live a perfectly happy and fully nutritiously balanced diet either with a very low wheat intake or without it altogether. However, be prepared for just how much of your normal daily intake is based around wheat currently.
Outside of that there are so many other things surrounding eating fresh and not processed even down to the fact that with sugar there are in effect "good" sugars and "bad" sugars which in essence turn you into a sugar junky.
And don't forget to drink plnety of good clean water and wannk at least three times a day.
Preferably not off the top diving board at the swimming baths.
You are not alone Platini. I work at a GPs and was talking to one of our nurses who specialises in diabetes. She says that many cases of diabetes are entirely preventable by lifestyle/eating changes. The rise in diabetes should be a concern to all. In recent studies it was found that 70% of people tested were at risk or had a heightened risk of developing type 2 diabetes.
Like most on this thread I have been making changes to my eating habits, cutting out wheat, reducing carbs & sugar. I am not overweight but have developed a bit of a tummy since turning 50
and am not really seeing much improvement yet but am determined to carry on. I think that not having excess weight to lose initially may be making for a less dramatic instant result and may take a little longer to show the benefits.
I do feel better and more energised though.
Like most on this thread I have been making changes to my eating habits, cutting out wheat, reducing carbs & sugar. I am not overweight but have developed a bit of a tummy since turning 50
and am not really seeing much improvement yet but am determined to carry on. I think that not having excess weight to lose initially may be making for a less dramatic instant result and may take a little longer to show the benefits.I do feel better and more energised though.
As you get older your digestive system is not as efficient - I believe wheat causes havoc.
As you get older your digestive system is not as efficient - I believe wheat causes havoc.
There's no doubt that many people have cut stuff out of their diets resulting in spectacular improvement to their health.
Yet even with the evidence staring them in the face doctors are still reluctant to take food intolerances seriously.
It's very much a case of do it yourself or suffer in silence.
One thing is for sure your GP will be a big let down if you depend on them for help.
Especially for treating migraines. You might as well go and see a witchdoctor for migraine as go to your GP.
Overpaid charlatans most of them.
Yet even with the evidence staring them in the face doctors are still reluctant to take food intolerances seriously.
It's very much a case of do it yourself or suffer in silence.
One thing is for sure your GP will be a big let down if you depend on them for help.
Especially for treating migraines. You might as well go and see a witchdoctor for migraine as go to your GP.
Overpaid charlatans most of them.
Last sentence hits the nail on the head Crips. I worked with Doctors when I was nursing at the sharp end in hospital. You had some half decent consultants who were sometimes obnoxious priccks until I gave them the treatment. One consultant never forgot me and still asked after me years after I left. Most of the guys from registrar downwards got progressively worse. They had an inflated sense of their omnipotence and a lack of insight into their average capabilities and often arrogant bedside manner.
George Bernard Shaw lived well into his 90's and apart from his vegetarianism his one mantra when ill was to seek out a doctor and ask his advice and then do the exact opposite. He once cured a nasty bout of the flu in five days. Of course it nearly killed him but he did live to tell the tale.
George Bernard Shaw lived well into his 90's and apart from his vegetarianism his one mantra when ill was to seek out a doctor and ask his advice and then do the exact opposite. He once cured a nasty bout of the flu in five days. Of course it nearly killed him but he did live to tell the tale.
Good luck scandanavian, hope it works for you. You may have a grumbling digestive system for a few days to start with, while your bowel flora adjusts, but it soon passes.
So this wheat thing is a new invention is it? I'm pretty sure people have been eating this stuff called Bread for more than the last few years...pre dating todays epidemic of fatty lard arses with Diabetus.
As you get older your digestive system is not as efficient - I believe wheat causes havoc
could be but then it could be either milk or one of the sugars....which then makes the system store the others too because its too much hard work.
could be but then it could be either milk or one of the sugars....which then makes the system store the others too because its too much hard work.
It's not the wheat grain that's the problem - it's the refinement process. Refined wheat and refined food in general is very new, in evolutionary terms. Our ancestors didn't eat any of that crap. Synthetic, refined food is killing us. Have a look at what goes into margarine for example, now compare it with butter. Its staggering that many people think margarine is healthier 
Dr Crippen - someone told me once that Doctors do not study nutrition.
not had much today
aug: 4 chicken drumsticks(should I be taking the skin off?) tin of tuna, beetroot, banana, 3 cups of green tea, also bought some cheese to snack on as recommend by Flowermyth, light chedder cheese, been a while since I actually bought the stuff and and I forgot how pricey cheese can be, esp goat's cheese.
also, what kind of nuts should and shouldn't you eat? Brazil nuts? pine nuts? roasted monkey nuts (the cheapest), etc ???
aug: 4 chicken drumsticks(should I be taking the skin off?) tin of tuna, beetroot, banana, 3 cups of green tea, also bought some cheese to snack on as recommend by Flowermyth, light chedder cheese, been a while since I actually bought the stuff and and I forgot how pricey cheese can be, esp goat's cheese.
also, what kind of nuts should and shouldn't you eat? Brazil nuts? pine nuts? roasted monkey nuts (the cheapest), etc ???
Well I never take the skin off. In fact there was an article in the New Scientist today that starts:
After decades of health warnings, the idea that steak, cheese and lard are bad for your heart is melting away. The truth is more complex – and delicious…
Presumably about how the whole ‘fat is bad for you’ stuff is rubbish.
I eat fat and I’m am the leanest I’ve been in my life. However, I realise for a lot of people it is terrifying actually to think of eating fat. I was that way too, but I’ve got over it. If the thought of eating chicken with skin is a step too far too soon, take it off, or take it off some and leave it on others, etc. As long as you are satiated by what you eat AND happy. If you don’t trust fat you can remove it or eat as little as possible – for instance Quorn fillets are very low fat, high protein and without wheat in them, though a lot of other Quorn does have wheat.
One thing to remember – if you ate a lot of wheat before, that’s carbohydrate that you are no longer getting. So (if you don’t want to lose weight) you will need to either eat more carbohydrate or more fat (or both) to compensate.
As for the nuts, the only really bad thing to do is have roasted or salted nuts. Plain, whole nuts and seeds are what you want. With nuts I find almonds are really filling and cheaper than some of the others. But they all have their good points nutritionally. Personally my nut list is, in order of likes: Almonds, Pecans, Brazils, Macadamia, Hazel and last and very much least Walnuts. Don't eat cashews, they are the nut equivalent of pringles! And they're not real nuts. I don’t eat seeds, I’ve never bought them, but whatever you eat you want plain ‘not messed about with’ seeds, whatever they might be.
As for cheese, if you’re still wary of fat then yes lighter. I buy the mature cheddar stuff – at the moment Tesco are selling 2 450g blocks for £5 – an offer that will continue for about another year, here’s the lighter version:
.
http://www.tesco.com/groceries/product/details/?id=281814492
After decades of health warnings, the idea that steak, cheese and lard are bad for your heart is melting away. The truth is more complex – and delicious…
Presumably about how the whole ‘fat is bad for you’ stuff is rubbish.
I eat fat and I’m am the leanest I’ve been in my life. However, I realise for a lot of people it is terrifying actually to think of eating fat. I was that way too, but I’ve got over it. If the thought of eating chicken with skin is a step too far too soon, take it off, or take it off some and leave it on others, etc. As long as you are satiated by what you eat AND happy. If you don’t trust fat you can remove it or eat as little as possible – for instance Quorn fillets are very low fat, high protein and without wheat in them, though a lot of other Quorn does have wheat.
One thing to remember – if you ate a lot of wheat before, that’s carbohydrate that you are no longer getting. So (if you don’t want to lose weight) you will need to either eat more carbohydrate or more fat (or both) to compensate.
As for the nuts, the only really bad thing to do is have roasted or salted nuts. Plain, whole nuts and seeds are what you want. With nuts I find almonds are really filling and cheaper than some of the others. But they all have their good points nutritionally. Personally my nut list is, in order of likes: Almonds, Pecans, Brazils, Macadamia, Hazel and last and very much least Walnuts. Don't eat cashews, they are the nut equivalent of pringles! And they're not real nuts. I don’t eat seeds, I’ve never bought them, but whatever you eat you want plain ‘not messed about with’ seeds, whatever they might be.
As for cheese, if you’re still wary of fat then yes lighter. I buy the mature cheddar stuff – at the moment Tesco are selling 2 450g blocks for £5 – an offer that will continue for about another year, here’s the lighter version:
.
http://www.tesco.com/groceries/product/details/?id=281814492
Jul 29, 2014 -- 11:22AM, FlowerMyth wrote:
I gave up wheat Feb 19th this year. The best thing I have ever done for my health.
how easy has it been?
WEETABIX are fattening?
Have they changed the recipe?
I started eating them when I was a kid.
None of them namby-pamby tree hugging wishy-washy breakfast bowls for me
I used a salad bowl, with 5 Weetabix in it, a full pint of proper milk on them, and a TABLEspoonful of sugar sprinkled over the top.
I never missed a day, so if I started at the age of 5, by the time I was 11 years old I had eaten 10,950 (not including any leap year Weetabix)
I was so skinny I had to have pencils in my ears to stop me falling down drains
By the age of 16, I had eaten 29,200 and still what I call 'skinny' i.e.- no fat.
By the age of 18, the count had gone up to 32,850. Now 6 feet 2 and still as lean as a greyhound.
5 Weetabix every single day, and no alcohol intake at all.
This carried on until I was 36 years old, by which time I had scoffed 65,700 of them, but I had cut down the sugar sprinkled over the top to half a tablespoonful.
Still 6 feet 2, and no more than a maximum of 13 stones 7, and there was more fat on a butchers pencil.
I then took up playing darts again, but this time I indulged in the sophisticated art of drinking beer, a lot of it
9 years later at the age of 45, I had now scoffed 82,125 Weetabix, but as previous years showed, they had no effect on my weight.
But I was now 18 stones 7.
I think I can safely blame the extra 5 stones on beer for that.
I stopped playing darts and stopped drinking beer. I changed to a shift work job (which 'they' reckon is bad for you now) so that I oouldn't be tempted to go in the pub for any long sessions.
Despite still eating 5 Weetabix a day, but now with no sugar at all, and Mrs CMAT insisted on semi-skimmed milk, in 4 months, I got down to 15 stones 7. This wasn't dieting that lost this weight, I wasn't an office worker, it was hard manual labour.
I stayed around the 15-7 to 15-10 mark for a long long while. It looked like I couldn't lose any more weight, perhaps it's the metabolism of middle age, or perhaps I had finally arrived at my proper body weight, as all the other males in my family are/were a lot heavier than me. I think that years of very long hours and hard manual graft really kept my weight down.
However, you can't keep up the pace you worked at as you get older. But a 14 hour day 6 times a week has more effect than a desk jockey doing 2 hard hours in his local gym 3 times a week.
I still have 4 or 5 Weetabix a day, and I've now eaten 115,000 of them. So really, shouldn't I be enormous, as I don't exercise?
I've not done any hard graft for 9 years (mowing the lawn does for me) and in that time I've eaten another 16,425 Weetabix.
I weigh in at 16-8.
I'm overweight, but I'm not obese.
Have they changed the recipe?
I started eating them when I was a kid.
None of them namby-pamby tree hugging wishy-washy breakfast bowls for me
I used a salad bowl, with 5 Weetabix in it, a full pint of proper milk on them, and a TABLEspoonful of sugar sprinkled over the top. I never missed a day, so if I started at the age of 5, by the time I was 11 years old I had eaten 10,950 (not including any leap year Weetabix)
I was so skinny I had to have pencils in my ears to stop me falling down drains
By the age of 16, I had eaten 29,200 and still what I call 'skinny' i.e.- no fat.
By the age of 18, the count had gone up to 32,850. Now 6 feet 2 and still as lean as a greyhound.
5 Weetabix every single day, and no alcohol intake at all.
This carried on until I was 36 years old, by which time I had scoffed 65,700 of them, but I had cut down the sugar sprinkled over the top to half a tablespoonful.
Still 6 feet 2, and no more than a maximum of 13 stones 7, and there was more fat on a butchers pencil.
I then took up playing darts again, but this time I indulged in the sophisticated art of drinking beer, a lot of it
9 years later at the age of 45, I had now scoffed 82,125 Weetabix, but as previous years showed, they had no effect on my weight.
But I was now 18 stones 7.
I think I can safely blame the extra 5 stones on beer for that.
I stopped playing darts and stopped drinking beer. I changed to a shift work job (which 'they' reckon is bad for you now) so that I oouldn't be tempted to go in the pub for any long sessions.
Despite still eating 5 Weetabix a day, but now with no sugar at all, and Mrs CMAT insisted on semi-skimmed milk, in 4 months, I got down to 15 stones 7. This wasn't dieting that lost this weight, I wasn't an office worker, it was hard manual labour.
I stayed around the 15-7 to 15-10 mark for a long long while. It looked like I couldn't lose any more weight, perhaps it's the metabolism of middle age, or perhaps I had finally arrived at my proper body weight, as all the other males in my family are/were a lot heavier than me. I think that years of very long hours and hard manual graft really kept my weight down.
However, you can't keep up the pace you worked at as you get older. But a 14 hour day 6 times a week has more effect than a desk jockey doing 2 hard hours in his local gym 3 times a week.
I still have 4 or 5 Weetabix a day, and I've now eaten 115,000 of them. So really, shouldn't I be enormous, as I don't exercise?
I've not done any hard graft for 9 years (mowing the lawn does for me) and in that time I've eaten another 16,425 Weetabix.
I weigh in at 16-8.
I'm overweight, but I'm not obese.
cheers FM, i have no problem with eating fat as I exercise and on the go mostly, i have though excessively in the past eaten to much carbs with does give the feeling of lethargy, bread, cereals, fairly high carb dinner, and it's that, that is/was the problem i was fighting against.
Put your bowl staright away. Dried Weetabix is the hardest substance known to man
I know, The bowl is rinsed and washed up within seconds of me draining the last drops of milk.
I stopped playing darts and stopped drinking beer. I changed to a shift work job (which 'they' reckon is bad for you now) so that I oouldn't be tempted to go in the pub for any long sessions.
Despite still eating 5 Weetabix a day, but now with no sugar at all, and Mrs CMAT insisted on semi-skimmed milk, in 4 months, I got down to 15 stones 7. This wasn't dieting that lost this weight, I wasn't an office worker, it was hard manual labour.
So you don’t reckon it’s got anything at all to do with the sugar you’re no longer drinking in the pub and the sugar you’re no longer putting on, or in your weetabix at this stage? Undoubtedly the long hours of manual labour will have made a difference.
What you're saying is nothing different from what I've said, I'm 6ft and been slim almost all my life and ate, as I have stated, a ton of wheat until a few months back. But it's not unusual to be fat without being obviously fat. The stuff that shows can be just the tip of the iceberg of fat that is surrounding your organs. I had the tyre and tits, while most people would have said I was thin. My main issue with wheat is its effect on your body as a whole, not so much the weight. But it stands to reason that if you want to lose weight, you need to cut carbohydrates and wheat is not only high carb, it's also a carb we eat a lot of. Potato is too and rice, but we are not munching on them to quite the same extent, although it is not far off.
Another point - everyone handles carbs differently, maybe you've just always been good at burning them off, until lately, some people are terrible at it. The idea that you have an 'age' and a 'weight' to go with it is wrong, though. If you wanted, you could be the weight you were as a young man, I am, but I suspect you don't give a toss about it and good for you, but you could do it if you can give up booze the way you did before.
I never thought wheat affected me till I stopped eating it and, as has happened a couple of times, if I eat it now by accident it messes me up for 4 or 5 days. You may see no reason to give it up (as I saw no reason) but I'll certainly take how much better I feel and how much more active I am now I have. Like I always say, try for it 10 days or so and if it doesn't make a difference you can say WALOFS and go back to normal.
Despite still eating 5 Weetabix a day, but now with no sugar at all, and Mrs CMAT insisted on semi-skimmed milk, in 4 months, I got down to 15 stones 7. This wasn't dieting that lost this weight, I wasn't an office worker, it was hard manual labour.
So you don’t reckon it’s got anything at all to do with the sugar you’re no longer drinking in the pub and the sugar you’re no longer putting on, or in your weetabix at this stage? Undoubtedly the long hours of manual labour will have made a difference.
What you're saying is nothing different from what I've said, I'm 6ft and been slim almost all my life and ate, as I have stated, a ton of wheat until a few months back. But it's not unusual to be fat without being obviously fat. The stuff that shows can be just the tip of the iceberg of fat that is surrounding your organs. I had the tyre and tits, while most people would have said I was thin. My main issue with wheat is its effect on your body as a whole, not so much the weight. But it stands to reason that if you want to lose weight, you need to cut carbohydrates and wheat is not only high carb, it's also a carb we eat a lot of. Potato is too and rice, but we are not munching on them to quite the same extent, although it is not far off.
Another point - everyone handles carbs differently, maybe you've just always been good at burning them off, until lately, some people are terrible at it. The idea that you have an 'age' and a 'weight' to go with it is wrong, though. If you wanted, you could be the weight you were as a young man, I am, but I suspect you don't give a toss about it and good for you, but you could do it if you can give up booze the way you did before.
I never thought wheat affected me till I stopped eating it and, as has happened a couple of times, if I eat it now by accident it messes me up for 4 or 5 days. You may see no reason to give it up (as I saw no reason) but I'll certainly take how much better I feel and how much more active I am now I have. Like I always say, try for it 10 days or so and if it doesn't make a difference you can say WALOFS and go back to normal.
Davin_03 - After 8-10 days it was relatively easy. The hard part's thinking differently, trying to work out what to eat and all that. I did eat gluten free stuff when I didn't know any better - trying to carry on as I were before but without wheat. It's crap, once I got used to looking for alternatives and started eating 2 or 3 eggs, yolks and all, I just fell into it, Once I'd stopped seeing the grim reaper lurking behind every egg and chicken skin.
Orses for courses innit. I know someone who since she started eating only raw fruit and veg has never felt fitter and more energetic.
I certainly would not consider eliminating wheat from my diet if I was not absolutely certain that regular eating of it made me unwell.
Nevertheless I've said before that after eliminating a food you will build up a tolerance to it. In most cases you will be able to eat the offending food on occasions and suffer no ill effects.
Nevertheless I've said before that after eliminating a food you will build up a tolerance to it. In most cases you will be able to eat the offending food on occasions and suffer no ill effects.
yeah its when you overload and the system deal with that particular food slowerthen slowing down the rate of other foods
expalins why even though i had a low fat diet i was still putting on weight
nailed on lactose or fructose is the problem....hopefully soon to find out
expalins why even though i had a low fat diet i was still putting on weight
nailed on lactose or fructose is the problem....hopefully soon to find out
Thought i would try rye bread from Lidl tastes ok but a bit dry.
Put your bowl to soak straight away. Dried Weetabix is the hardest substance known to man
it's the gluten that causes that... so just think what it's doing to your body
it's the gluten that causes that... so just think what it's doing to your body
Orses for courses innit. I know someone who since she started eating only raw fruit and veg has never felt fitter and more energetic.
Well as you know, you can only eat three things – protein, fat and carbohydrates. Protein in humans is more to do with building structure. We burn fat or carbs for energy. The body can use either; if you don’t eat much carbohydrate you’ll start producing ketones from the fat you eat, and if you eat mainly carbs, it’s glucose that fuels you.
Carbs are like a quick-fix, they give you plenty of energy now, but for a short amount of time, that’s why when you eat carbs you keep feeding yourself every few hours no matter how much you eat.
When you eat mainly fat and burn ketones, you have all your body as a resource (unlike with carbs) and don’t run out and need a re-feed every few hours, in other words the energy from fat lasts longer and does less damage*.
(*unless it turns out the 'fat is almost instant death' crowd were right all along, I'm doing what I believe the science tells us is true).
It is just orses and I’m not saying every one of exactly the same, but longterm it is carbs that do the damage via insulin, not fat. As you age the machinery of insulin may start to falter if it is constantly trying to put right your blood sugar. If you’re young most people don’t need to think about it, but as you age, well no body systems actually improve with age after a point, do they?
In most cases you will be able to eat the offending food on occasions and suffer no ill effects.
I think you know better than I on this, but I do think wheat is one of those exceptions.
As I understand it, the two proteins from the gluten are able to get into the blood stream via the intestines. The body thinks it is under attack and causes an immune response (which is why joint pain is made worse, I think). If you keep eating it you get used to it, though as I understand the immune system never stops treating it as a threat, but if you stop it is worse when you eat it again. Most people that have had the benefits from being wheat free say the same - if they eat wheat again they crash and burn. I had a rough 4 days after eating wheat one Sunday, it was very unpleasant, wobbly bowels, joint pain, flu-like symptoms and anxiety. I started to feel better the following Thursday afternoon. You can’t get by with a bit now and then like with other foods, I think, certainly not in my case. If you could I’d be treating myself, but experience tells me it’s not worth the grief.
Well as you know, you can only eat three things – protein, fat and carbohydrates. Protein in humans is more to do with building structure. We burn fat or carbs for energy. The body can use either; if you don’t eat much carbohydrate you’ll start producing ketones from the fat you eat, and if you eat mainly carbs, it’s glucose that fuels you.
Carbs are like a quick-fix, they give you plenty of energy now, but for a short amount of time, that’s why when you eat carbs you keep feeding yourself every few hours no matter how much you eat.
When you eat mainly fat and burn ketones, you have all your body as a resource (unlike with carbs) and don’t run out and need a re-feed every few hours, in other words the energy from fat lasts longer and does less damage*.
(*unless it turns out the 'fat is almost instant death' crowd were right all along, I'm doing what I believe the science tells us is true).
It is just orses and I’m not saying every one of exactly the same, but longterm it is carbs that do the damage via insulin, not fat. As you age the machinery of insulin may start to falter if it is constantly trying to put right your blood sugar. If you’re young most people don’t need to think about it, but as you age, well no body systems actually improve with age after a point, do they?
In most cases you will be able to eat the offending food on occasions and suffer no ill effects.
I think you know better than I on this, but I do think wheat is one of those exceptions.
As I understand it, the two proteins from the gluten are able to get into the blood stream via the intestines. The body thinks it is under attack and causes an immune response (which is why joint pain is made worse, I think). If you keep eating it you get used to it, though as I understand the immune system never stops treating it as a threat, but if you stop it is worse when you eat it again. Most people that have had the benefits from being wheat free say the same - if they eat wheat again they crash and burn. I had a rough 4 days after eating wheat one Sunday, it was very unpleasant, wobbly bowels, joint pain, flu-like symptoms and anxiety. I started to feel better the following Thursday afternoon. You can’t get by with a bit now and then like with other foods, I think, certainly not in my case. If you could I’d be treating myself, but experience tells me it’s not worth the grief.
The biggest change in my diet has been bread - I used to eat loads of it, daily. Now I haven't eaten any, 3 months and counting.
Oats and carrots. You heard it here first, straight from the orse's mouth.
FlowerMyth,
I agree with your last paragraph.
Worsening symptoms after leaving a food out, then complete recovery after 5- 8 days is excellent evidence that food intolerance is the problem.
Then if you reintroduce the food it should hit you like a brick.
One thing about symptoms, they level off as your body adjusts then they intensify when you leave an offending food out.
That's why it is common for migraine sufferers to get a headache if they skip a meal. Especially for wheat because it is in almost every meal.
I agree with your last paragraph.
Worsening symptoms after leaving a food out, then complete recovery after 5- 8 days is excellent evidence that food intolerance is the problem.
Then if you reintroduce the food it should hit you like a brick.
One thing about symptoms, they level off as your body adjusts then they intensify when you leave an offending food out.
That's why it is common for migraine sufferers to get a headache if they skip a meal. Especially for wheat because it is in almost every meal.
today I've had, 3 chicken thighs, tin of tuna, Yeo valley greek style yoghurt, 1 banana, 1 tomato, 4 or 5 thin slices of cheese, 4 or 5 whole almond nuts, they were £1.29 from sainsburys, I do feel a bit light headed, i wont update what I;ve eaten every day as i wont want to bore the arse of you
but low carbs and no wheat all round, not sure I bought the best kind of yoghurt in general though
but low carbs and no wheat all round, not sure I bought the best kind of yoghurt in general though
had a pizza and 2 slices of birthday cake, now starting on some beers.
will start tomm.
will start tomm.
GOT IN, having a trifle and a slice of cheesecake.
I would like to call it a binge, but its a normal sat night.
wheat free tomorrow.
I would like to call it a binge, but its a normal sat night.
wheat free tomorrow.
Flowermyth
I think you're over simplifying the carbs issue, The problem tends to lie with simple carbs whch are essentially sugar based and which tend to stimulate an area of the brain to actually crave more food. Reearch is tending to show that even specific sugars are worse for you than others. There isn't anything wrong with taking in complex carbs which are broken down much more slowly and which don't result in the peaks and troughs associated with simple carbs. Porridge is a good source of complex carbohydrates. It's damn fine stuff and stiffens yer sporran as well.
I think you're over simplifying the carbs issue, The problem tends to lie with simple carbs whch are essentially sugar based and which tend to stimulate an area of the brain to actually crave more food. Reearch is tending to show that even specific sugars are worse for you than others. There isn't anything wrong with taking in complex carbs which are broken down much more slowly and which don't result in the peaks and troughs associated with simple carbs. Porridge is a good source of complex carbohydrates. It's damn fine stuff and stiffens yer sporran as well.
I wouldn’t dispute the fact that simple carbs are more a problem than complex ones, talking about diets in general. I have written about craving carbohydrates and leptin response before. If it were as simple as saying (and I know you are not saying) that complex carbohydrates are fine, then there’d be much less of a problem. For my part, wheat is a problem because of the gluten but also the sugars. Most of the complex carbohydrate in wheat is rapidly absorbed into the blood stream, and only a small amount wends its lonely way through to your bum. So it does raise your blood sugar significantly. And so do other complex carb containing foods, like bananas, for instance. And so do oats, though not as much as wheat or bananas, granted, but still not insignificantly. I don’t know if they contain gluten or not (some do), I don't think it is clear. They contain a gluten-like protein, but whether that has issues, I don't know, and they can be contaminated with gluten anyway, so I see no good reason to eat them. They do make me nostalgic for cold winter mornings and school though, which is odd because I don't remember eating them!
The big three that you really want to try and avoid or at the very least limit are gluten, dairy and sugar. As mentioned before gluten is inflammatory and should be on of the first things to avoid if you have an auto-immune disease.
Dairy is no good either, it’s mucous forming and again something you should be looking to cut out if you suffer from any kind of eczema. But if you really think about it what is dairy. It’s a growth substance. It’s specifically designed to help baby creatures grow. Not only that but it’s specifically evolved for the purposes of a different species of animal. At least with sugar it doesn’t pretend to be good for you.
Of course the other side to this is that they are rather tasty, and gluten is in most beer as well. If you do want to eat this stuff, then I would say for gluten try and eat spelt instead of normal wheat. It is an ancient form of wheat and has much much less gluten in it. If you have dairy go for goat and sheep rather than cow. If you want sweet stuff then go for maple syrup, xylitol or palm sugar rather than cane sugar.
The thing I really don’t get is eating packaged cereal like weetabix for breakfast. Firstly (if you are having it with normal milk) you’ve got wheat, dairy and sugar. That’s the holy trinity of cr8pness in every mouthful. Secondly have you tasted it, it’s like eating cardboard. That’s why people put sugar on it, because it tastes so bland and cardboardy. So why would you eat it, it tastes horrible AND has no nutritional benefit. If you don’t care about the nutrition of what you eat, at least go for something tasty like croissants and jam, or toast with whatever you want on it and a snickers. If you want something nutritional in the morning then you are failing badly with weetabix and the like.
I don’t understand this mentality that makes people believe that breakfast must be in a bowl and contain milk. If you think eating something like an omlette and a piece of meat, or soup for breakfast just sounds weird and wrong then you’ve been brainwashed and fooled by the advertising of Mr Kellogs and co.
Unfortunately trying to be healthy isn’t cheap or easy. Organic is more expensive, eating things like activated almonds rather than normal almonds is more expensive but more nutritionally beneficial. If you eat oats you need to look to make sure they are gluten free as a lot of time oats are grown as a rotational crop alongside wheat and so can contain some of the wheaty goodness. Of course again gluten free oats are more expensive. Cooking things yourself from scratch rather than buying packaged stuff is more effort. If you have the time and money to do all this, you will definitely feel the difference.
Finally if you buy anything packaged look at the ingredients in it. A while back I managed to get my brother to stop eating supermarket hotdogs buy showing him that one of the ingredients was mechanically recovered meat.
Dairy is no good either, it’s mucous forming and again something you should be looking to cut out if you suffer from any kind of eczema. But if you really think about it what is dairy. It’s a growth substance. It’s specifically designed to help baby creatures grow. Not only that but it’s specifically evolved for the purposes of a different species of animal. At least with sugar it doesn’t pretend to be good for you.
Of course the other side to this is that they are rather tasty, and gluten is in most beer as well. If you do want to eat this stuff, then I would say for gluten try and eat spelt instead of normal wheat. It is an ancient form of wheat and has much much less gluten in it. If you have dairy go for goat and sheep rather than cow. If you want sweet stuff then go for maple syrup, xylitol or palm sugar rather than cane sugar.
The thing I really don’t get is eating packaged cereal like weetabix for breakfast. Firstly (if you are having it with normal milk) you’ve got wheat, dairy and sugar. That’s the holy trinity of cr8pness in every mouthful. Secondly have you tasted it, it’s like eating cardboard. That’s why people put sugar on it, because it tastes so bland and cardboardy. So why would you eat it, it tastes horrible AND has no nutritional benefit. If you don’t care about the nutrition of what you eat, at least go for something tasty like croissants and jam, or toast with whatever you want on it and a snickers. If you want something nutritional in the morning then you are failing badly with weetabix and the like.
I don’t understand this mentality that makes people believe that breakfast must be in a bowl and contain milk. If you think eating something like an omlette and a piece of meat, or soup for breakfast just sounds weird and wrong then you’ve been brainwashed and fooled by the advertising of Mr Kellogs and co.
Unfortunately trying to be healthy isn’t cheap or easy. Organic is more expensive, eating things like activated almonds rather than normal almonds is more expensive but more nutritionally beneficial. If you eat oats you need to look to make sure they are gluten free as a lot of time oats are grown as a rotational crop alongside wheat and so can contain some of the wheaty goodness. Of course again gluten free oats are more expensive. Cooking things yourself from scratch rather than buying packaged stuff is more effort. If you have the time and money to do all this, you will definitely feel the difference.
Finally if you buy anything packaged look at the ingredients in it. A while back I managed to get my brother to stop eating supermarket hotdogs buy showing him that one of the ingredients was mechanically recovered meat.
So you don't recommend eating yoghurt's then ?
I wouldn’t say that dairy is anywhere near as bad as gluten. We cannot naturally eat grains, this is a fact. Milk we can. I think you have it backwards, personally. It is not that milk is meant for babies (well obviously it is) but milk is all babies can naturally eat for very obvious reasons. It doesn’t follow that adults can’t consume milk it, is just that they don’t need to because they can both look for, chew and digest more complex energy-giving foods - imo.
I don't drink milk nowadays simply because it seems unnatural - you feed an adult cow with human milk, so why do the opposite - it's just weird.
Is it weird? To me it is a bit nonsensical, assuming you're not a vegetarian. What you are saying is it is unnatural to eat milk (proteins, carbs and fats) from another species, but eating meat (proteins, carbs and fats) from that same other animal is good?
Personally I'm not completely sold on milk, I didn't drink it for years, but the alternatives are soya milk (milk-ish at its best but possibly carcinogenic), almond milk (too think and not milk enough for me) and sod-all, basically. I may well go the sod-all route in time, but there's nothing wrong with grass fed butter and cheese, imo.
Personally I'm not completely sold on milk, I didn't drink it for years, but the alternatives are soya milk (milk-ish at its best but possibly carcinogenic), almond milk (too think and not milk enough for me) and sod-all, basically. I may well go the sod-all route in time, but there's nothing wrong with grass fed butter and cheese, imo.
What you are saying is it is unnatural to eat milk (proteins, carbs and fats) from another species, but eating meat (proteins, carbs and fats) from that same other animal is good?
No, I'm increasingly leaning towards vegetarianism as it happens, although I love meat, especially beef and lamb, but it seems at best unneccesary and at worst barbaric, particularly when you consider the methods used during "processing". Can't bring myself to make that leap just yet though...
No, I'm increasingly leaning towards vegetarianism as it happens, although I love meat, especially beef and lamb, but it seems at best unneccesary and at worst barbaric, particularly when you consider the methods used during "processing". Can't bring myself to make that leap just yet though...
I've just stopped being vegetarian because we couldn't have been vegetarians for all but 10,000 of the quarter of a million years we've been around, because fruit and veg is seasonal and low in protein. Say you lived here prior to the iceage. Farming didn't exist, people were not farming and processing wheat, not to the extent that it was a main part of the diet. The country is covered in wildwood - where could you possibly get enough plants that are edible and nutritional enough to get you through the long months of winter? Meat must have been what we ate.
Having said all that, I'd like to go back to being a vegetarian eventually and also to alternate day fasting, which I gave up recently.
Having said all that, I'd like to go back to being a vegetarian eventually and also to alternate day fasting, which I gave up recently.
Historically milk was meant for just babies. In most species of mammal the activity of the enzyme lactase dramatically reduces after weaning. It's only in humans where it is evolving but the majority of people in the world remain lactase non-persistent and consequently are affected by lactose intolerance as adults.
Have a read of the following as an alternative viewpoint
http://www.organichealthandbeauty.com/Dangers-of-Milk_ep_62-1.html
There are a few alternatives to milk. Soy (steer clear of if possible) almond milk, rice milk, oat milk, coconut milk (i think you can get quinoa milk as well). I actually prefer the taste of coconut milk to normal milk. I have a family friend who is a nutrionist and she says that milk is basically rubbish and neither she nor her family drink it.
Have a read of the following as an alternative viewpoint
http://www.organichealthandbeauty.com/Dangers-of-Milk_ep_62-1.html
There are a few alternatives to milk. Soy (steer clear of if possible) almond milk, rice milk, oat milk, coconut milk (i think you can get quinoa milk as well). I actually prefer the taste of coconut milk to normal milk. I have a family friend who is a nutrionist and she says that milk is basically rubbish and neither she nor her family drink it.
Secondly have you tasted it, it’s like eating cardboard. That’s why people put sugar on it, because it tastes so bland and cardboardy. So why would you eat it, it tastes horrible
No it bloody doesn't its luverly especially with full fat milk and it definately doesn't need sugar.
No it bloody doesn't its luverly especially with full fat milk and it definately doesn't need sugar.
This is getting too deep.
I've already questioned the wisdom of taking stuff out of your diet without being sure that it is making you ill.
but the alternatives are soya milk (milk-ish at its best but possibly carcinogenic),
What's this possibly carcinogenic? I haven't heard than one before.
I've already questioned the wisdom of taking stuff out of your diet without being sure that it is making you ill.
but the alternatives are soya milk (milk-ish at its best but possibly carcinogenic),
What's this possibly carcinogenic? I haven't heard than one before.
It’s all epigenetics, innit? If you’re European your chances of being lactose intolerant are in the regions of 2%.
Soy, it's controversial, soy has a large amount of phyto-oestrogens, which raised the incidence of cancer in labs rats. Yes yes, we are not lab rats, I said it was possibly carcinogenic, not that it defintely is.
But I don't see why something inferior with a hint of danger about it and lacking in much history should be any more confidently consumed than cow's milk, which we've been consuming for a long time.
Those other milks mentioned are full of chemicals and starchy thickeners.
Soy, it's controversial, soy has a large amount of phyto-oestrogens, which raised the incidence of cancer in labs rats. Yes yes, we are not lab rats, I said it was possibly carcinogenic, not that it defintely is.
But I don't see why something inferior with a hint of danger about it and lacking in much history should be any more confidently consumed than cow's milk, which we've been consuming for a long time.
Those other milks mentioned are full of chemicals and starchy thickeners.
so what have we learnt?
dont drink milk
dont drink soya milk
dont have sucrose
dont have fructose
dont eat bread and carbs.
we already know eating red meat frquently is a no no
eating processed meat is even worse.
eggs are bad for ldl cholesterol.
wtf can we eat
dont drink milk
dont drink soya milk
dont have sucrose
dont have fructose
dont eat bread and carbs.
we already know eating red meat frquently is a no no
eating processed meat is even worse.
eggs are bad for ldl cholesterol.
wtf can we eat
thommo, my hero, doesnt care about carbs and sugar
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We cannot naturally eat grains, this is a fact.
Yes we can. When I was a kid I used to rub ears of wheat between my hands to separate the juicy raw grains then eat them. You can chew raw sweetcorn off the cob before it dries and many people eat raw rolled oats.
I love weetabix too and eat it without sugar like Thin and Crispy although I usually prefer porridge for breakfast.
Burton, you can't eat jelly as it's made from the extract of boiled bones sweetened with sugar. You know what's left, enjoy
Yes we can. When I was a kid I used to rub ears of wheat between my hands to separate the juicy raw grains then eat them. You can chew raw sweetcorn off the cob before it dries and many people eat raw rolled oats.
I love weetabix too and eat it without sugar like Thin and Crispy although I usually prefer porridge for breakfast.
Burton, you can't eat jelly as it's made from the extract of boiled bones sweetened with sugar. You know what's left, enjoy
And with that I'm done with this thread. Good luck to those that have given up wheat, keep us updated to how you are doing.
If your british chances of being lactose intolerant are 5-15%
"But I don't see why something inferior with a hint of danger about it and lacking in much history should be any more confidently consumed than cow's milk, which we've been consuming for a long time.
Those other milks mentioned are full of chemicals and starchy thickeners."
Why is it inferior. Are you referring to taste, isn’t that subjective, after all some people find weetabix delicious.
You say “lacking in much history” which is strange because you can make your own nut milk. Do you know what the ingredients are? They are water and nuts. I’m pretty sure that these have been consumed over a longer period of time than cow’s milk.
You also mention a hint of danger which is interesting as you posted a link in an earlier post about a tescos cheese and you also mentioned you bought a similar version as well, which does not look organic. This invalidates your argument about having consumed it for a long time, because we have consumed pasture fed organic milk for a long time but certainly not the non-organic stuff.
You mention about the chemicals and starchy thickeners. If you look at Oatly it’s ingredients are water, oats, rapeseed oil, salt vitamins (D2, riboflavin, folic acid and B12) and calcium. There are some milks out there that do use more in the way of thickeners like guar gum, but what about the chemicals in non-organic dairy products that you are buying. Firstly the cows will eat corn and other grain and soy( most of which is genetically engineered). Their feed will be contaminated with pesticides and herbicides. They may receive hormones including pituitary, steroid, hypothalamic and thyroid, to increase milk production and may also be fed antibiotics. Also 2/3 of all milk (organic and non-organic) comes from pregnant cows when the hormone content of oestrogen and progesterone are very high. Don’t forget that all cows release toxins through their milk as it is a natural exit for substances the body doesn’t use.
I shall leave you with this. Jeffrey Holly (Professor of Clinical Sciences at the University of Bristol) states that his studies and those of others have consistently found that, of all the components of human diet, milk and dairy products have the greatest effects on IGF-1 levels.
"But I don't see why something inferior with a hint of danger about it and lacking in much history should be any more confidently consumed than cow's milk, which we've been consuming for a long time.
Those other milks mentioned are full of chemicals and starchy thickeners."
Why is it inferior. Are you referring to taste, isn’t that subjective, after all some people find weetabix delicious.
You say “lacking in much history” which is strange because you can make your own nut milk. Do you know what the ingredients are? They are water and nuts. I’m pretty sure that these have been consumed over a longer period of time than cow’s milk.
You also mention a hint of danger which is interesting as you posted a link in an earlier post about a tescos cheese and you also mentioned you bought a similar version as well, which does not look organic. This invalidates your argument about having consumed it for a long time, because we have consumed pasture fed organic milk for a long time but certainly not the non-organic stuff.
You mention about the chemicals and starchy thickeners. If you look at Oatly it’s ingredients are water, oats, rapeseed oil, salt vitamins (D2, riboflavin, folic acid and B12) and calcium. There are some milks out there that do use more in the way of thickeners like guar gum, but what about the chemicals in non-organic dairy products that you are buying. Firstly the cows will eat corn and other grain and soy( most of which is genetically engineered). Their feed will be contaminated with pesticides and herbicides. They may receive hormones including pituitary, steroid, hypothalamic and thyroid, to increase milk production and may also be fed antibiotics. Also 2/3 of all milk (organic and non-organic) comes from pregnant cows when the hormone content of oestrogen and progesterone are very high. Don’t forget that all cows release toxins through their milk as it is a natural exit for substances the body doesn’t use.
I shall leave you with this. Jeffrey Holly (Professor of Clinical Sciences at the University of Bristol) states that his studies and those of others have consistently found that, of all the components of human diet, milk and dairy products have the greatest effects on IGF-1 levels.
so brits are either 2% or 5-15% to be affected by lactose?
was reading that the med countries are the most likely in europe.
33% of the world population are 33% affected in some way by fructose.
any figures on wheat?
was reading that the med countries are the most likely in europe.
33% of the world population are 33% affected in some way by fructose.
any figures on wheat?
As a result of browsing this thread last week I got myself a copy of Novak Djokovic's book and went Gluten free from yesterday. I am going to give it a go for a fortnight and see if I notice a difference.
I am slightly overweight (11.5 stone at 5 foot 8). I was always slim/skinny until maybe 3-4 years ago, in which time I have put on about 3-4 stone, so I am looking to lose a few pounds, but my main motivation for giving it a go is a general lack of energy which I've had for a good few years now (effectively since piling on the weight).
One thing pointed out in Djoko's book that I found interesting was the idea of having the majority your carbs during the day (up to lunchtime-ish) when you actually need/want the energy, and then eat foods high in protein in the evening; I am trying to follow this advice too.
I am slightly overweight (11.5 stone at 5 foot 8). I was always slim/skinny until maybe 3-4 years ago, in which time I have put on about 3-4 stone, so I am looking to lose a few pounds, but my main motivation for giving it a go is a general lack of energy which I've had for a good few years now (effectively since piling on the weight).
One thing pointed out in Djoko's book that I found interesting was the idea of having the majority your carbs during the day (up to lunchtime-ish) when you actually need/want the energy, and then eat foods high in protein in the evening; I am trying to follow this advice too.
any figures on wheat?
Who compiles these figures and how?
They're only guesses.
Who compiles these figures and how?
They're only guesses.
the idea of having the majority your carbs during the day (up to lunchtime-ish)
So that's where I've been going wrong, I should be drinking beer in the morning.
So that's where I've been going wrong, I should be drinking beer in the morning.
Novak Djokovic is simply food combining.
There's nothing new about eating carbs for one meal and proteins for another, it stops indigestion happening for one thing.
Not a lot of people know that.
There's nothing new about eating carbs for one meal and proteins for another, it stops indigestion happening for one thing.
Not a lot of people know that.
The obsession with cereal for breakfast is a hard one to get over, the big food companies have been heavily marketing that for generations. But if you research the main claims on their health benefits, it comes down to fiber. But fiber has zero nutritional value and won't help you lose weight. I'm not saying you don't need fiber because you do, but don't get it from cereal/wheat etc, get it from vegetables.
BTW Ted Brogan just hit the nail on the head, it's not just what you eat, it's when you eat. If you limit your carbs to daytime, you will find it much easier to lose weight. Ditch those big evening meals - we can't burn fat when we're sleeping.
BTW Ted Brogan just hit the nail on the head, it's not just what you eat, it's when you eat. If you limit your carbs to daytime, you will find it much easier to lose weight. Ditch those big evening meals - we can't burn fat when we're sleeping.
One week in and I've dropped 5lb.
I should point out that as well as going gluten free, I have limited my daily calorie intake to 2000, as well as avoided the heavy carbs (rice, pasta, spuds) with my evening meal.
I have also started exercising (walking/jogging a few miles a day) so it would be wrong to put it all down to the gluten-free option.
I can't say I feel too much different. I don't, for example feel ready to leap out of bed ready for the day ahead of me in the morning, nor do I feel that a 'mind-fog' has lifted (Two things Djoko claims he was feeling within a few days).
I haven't felt bloated or as if I've over-eaten after I've eaten my meals though, but as I wasn't previously monitoring my ingredients or portion sizes, again I can't say that's just down to no gluten.
However, I have noticed one fairly significant change; by having a gluten-free, protein-heavy evening meal, I have not found myself having the carb-crash which used to cause me to be hungry again around 9/10pm, so I have effectively stopped my evening snacking/grazing which was always a bad habit I had.
I will be continuing for another week before trying some gluten (as suggested by Novak), so will see if that has a significant effect.
I should point out that as well as going gluten free, I have limited my daily calorie intake to 2000, as well as avoided the heavy carbs (rice, pasta, spuds) with my evening meal.
I have also started exercising (walking/jogging a few miles a day) so it would be wrong to put it all down to the gluten-free option.
I can't say I feel too much different. I don't, for example feel ready to leap out of bed ready for the day ahead of me in the morning, nor do I feel that a 'mind-fog' has lifted (Two things Djoko claims he was feeling within a few days).
I haven't felt bloated or as if I've over-eaten after I've eaten my meals though, but as I wasn't previously monitoring my ingredients or portion sizes, again I can't say that's just down to no gluten.
However, I have noticed one fairly significant change; by having a gluten-free, protein-heavy evening meal, I have not found myself having the carb-crash which used to cause me to be hungry again around 9/10pm, so I have effectively stopped my evening snacking/grazing which was always a bad habit I had.
I will be continuing for another week before trying some gluten (as suggested by Novak), so will see if that has a significant effect.
I can tell you straight away that Novak Djokovic has never suffered from food intolerances.
You don't achieve the fitness levels of an athlete if you are burdened with food intolerances. Or feel better two days after eliminating stuff from your diet.
Nevertheless he claims that his magic diet has put an extra edge on his performances.
More likely the book was written to put an extra edge on his bank account.
There are far more books about written by doctors who know about food intolerances and the best way to identify them. Which is the only thing you really need to know.
You don't achieve the fitness levels of an athlete if you are burdened with food intolerances. Or feel better two days after eliminating stuff from your diet.
Nevertheless he claims that his magic diet has put an extra edge on his performances.
More likely the book was written to put an extra edge on his bank account.
There are far more books about written by doctors who know about food intolerances and the best way to identify them. Which is the only thing you really need to know.
Two massive differences in the last 50 years: out-of-season food via imports; and widespread adoption of cars and office work.
We are the first generation to be able to stick rigidly to a few types of food, regardless of time of year or weather. Let's look at grains, as wheat is the subject of this thread.
Wheat requires hot, dry summers to grow. In the past if the summer was lousy, your flour came from rye, barley or oats, which thrive in cool, wet conditions (hence the traditional popularity of porridge oats in Scotland). If your wheat failed, you might plant buckwheat as a fast-growing catch crop to ensure you have something to harvest (despite its name buckwheat is a grass rather than a cereal, so nutritionally different).
Now, however, you simply import wheat after a poor summer and your diet is unvarying. Bodies adapted by millennia of evolution to thrive on a bit of everything, are suddenly restricted to a tiny number of unvarying foodstuffs.
The point I'm trying to make is that very, very few of the food items on which people try to lay the sole blame for feeling lousy or looking tubby are inherently bad unless consumed in isolation. They're almost all valuable parts of a healthy, VARIED diet, where they have the opportunity to combine and react and make use of each other's properties within our bodies.
It's the VARIED part which has suddenly gone missing. A bit of everything is the answer imo.
Mind you, if you also happen to be a motorist and/or an office "worker", then worrying about your intake of wheat or milk is surely ducking the issue.
We are the first generation to be able to stick rigidly to a few types of food, regardless of time of year or weather. Let's look at grains, as wheat is the subject of this thread.
Wheat requires hot, dry summers to grow. In the past if the summer was lousy, your flour came from rye, barley or oats, which thrive in cool, wet conditions (hence the traditional popularity of porridge oats in Scotland). If your wheat failed, you might plant buckwheat as a fast-growing catch crop to ensure you have something to harvest (despite its name buckwheat is a grass rather than a cereal, so nutritionally different).
Now, however, you simply import wheat after a poor summer and your diet is unvarying. Bodies adapted by millennia of evolution to thrive on a bit of everything, are suddenly restricted to a tiny number of unvarying foodstuffs.
The point I'm trying to make is that very, very few of the food items on which people try to lay the sole blame for feeling lousy or looking tubby are inherently bad unless consumed in isolation. They're almost all valuable parts of a healthy, VARIED diet, where they have the opportunity to combine and react and make use of each other's properties within our bodies.
It's the VARIED part which has suddenly gone missing. A bit of everything is the answer imo.
Mind you, if you also happen to be a motorist and/or an office "worker", then worrying about your intake of wheat or milk is surely ducking the issue.
cut out milk and lowered fructose quite a bit and upped wholemeal bread.
dropped 15kg in 5 months.
dropped 15kg in 5 months.
Interesting article about big food and sugar, as mentioned previously on this thread:
http://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2014/aug/24/robert-lustig-sugar-poison?CMP=EMCNEWEML6619I2
http://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2014/aug/24/robert-lustig-sugar-poison?CMP=EMCNEWEML6619I2
so had the fructose test this morning and failed it.
well done you silly american c***s for silently adding fructose to near enough everything.......
well done you silly american c***s for silently adding fructose to near enough everything.......
carbs are best avoided unless you intend burning them off - apparently they turn to fat if not used - maybe that's how spuds got a bad name
maybe the best idea is not to eat too much late at night
maybe the best idea is not to eat too much late at night
yes the the sugars that carbs are made up of are turned into and stored as fat if you don't burn off the calories fairly quickly, called lipogenesis process
The only carbs you should avoid refined carbs not complex ones
The only carbs you should avoid refined carbs not complex ones
The only carbs you should avoid refined carbs not complex ones
can you give examples of each?
can you give examples of each?
refined = pizza's, pies, pasta, bread
complex = fruit and veg, kidney beans, some yougurts
complex = fruit and veg, kidney beans, some yougurts
apparently they turn to fat if not used
sugar does too.....
sugar does too.....
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