"Allah commands me to sell these children"

The film Apocalypse Now is based on this

with Marlon Brando the Kurtz like figure, a man who commits atrocities

but is also desensitized by the horrors he has seen

africa is a basket case and it is all ebulgery's fault

you nasty invading colonialist!!!!

I would guess slavery was all your fault gery

have you apologised for that yet.

check out how many slaves they reckon they have in africa!!??

NOW that is!!??

I wish I had a slave to clean my house

I have gone off the colonial idea after clousseas vision of me in a cooking pot

moisok

Slavery was considered quite normal at one time by everybody

it certainly is in parts of africa!!

and with the foreign gangs trafficking girls into the uk!!!

Nobody know can apologise for slavery unless they have actually owned one themselves

we cannot apologise for somebody else

I think the problem is that in the past we justified exploiting people on the grounds we were more civilized

some people objected to this

But as I pointed out earlier some people still tried to help these people in good faith

I think if I had lived then I may have been such a person, hopefully I would not have been eaten for my troubles

I can believe it

The strong always exploit the weak.......

You see this not a racial thing at all...it is the strong exploiting the weak for their advantage

it is a weakness in us all....as you are pointing out moisok

our only fault or perhaps luck, is that we were the strong at the time

Often in the more backward parts of the world..I can believe slavery may still exist

and there are always some of us, who like to force vulnerable girls and women in prostitution

for their own financial game...they are a commodity like everything else.

I have no problems with prostitution as long as the women do it voluntarily

otherwise I would object, as the decent among us should do, you do moisok, it does you credit

I can only repeat what I have said...this is not a racial thing at all

it is the strong exploiting the weak(we had a technology advantage at the time)

the real question we should be asking , is does being strong justify us exploiting the weak

just my own opinion of course

Re: 'Guy on Channel 4 news just now' thread - believe me "You've never had it so good"!.

several million slaves in africa apparently

Perhaps that's where he should be - (nothing stopping him is there?)- then he just might see some sense - maybe............

All this buddy-buddy agreement is not good for the forum. We need a bit more discord. I feel another rant erupting!

When I see these pathetic adverts to (supposedly) help the African children by giving somebody some money, major questions arise in my mind.
Why do they continue to have more children when they have already lost several to starvation? Maybe they could feed and nurture one healthy child. Don't they bother to think that eight babies will require more food?

Why do they show film of a young child struggling to carry water "four miles every day"? Why doesn't she use a trolley? She could transport more water more easily. This would free up time for her to dig an irrigation ditch so that,eventually, she wouldn't need to walk for water at all. Maybe even move a bit nearer to water?

Why does the little boy "have to drink contaminated water that could kill him. But he has no choice"? Why doesn't he filter it and boil it? Better still, why doesn't he fence it off and stop the bloody animals **** in the water supply? Create an area for the animals to drink and piss and take the water to them.

Why do they need people from thousands of miles away to dig a well for them? Why don't the men dig their own wells? Come to think of it...where ARE all the bloody fathers of these multifarious struggling off-spring and their child-burdened mothers? All laying about getting high and drunk, no doubt!

Just my opinion, of course.

you shock me moisok..that many???????

The slave trade that used to happen was driven by money..

there was a need for workers to work on plantations in the West Indies and in the cotton fields of America

Whites are not suitable for this.....so we needed someone more suitable, from Africa of course

Eugenics was a new science, so it was used to say that Africans were inferior to us whites genetically

so we could then use them as slaves.

Slavery had finished in Europe with the Romans.

It was of course appalling, the conditions on those slave ships(although I note we still treat animals like this)

We finally saw it was wrong, we cannot treat other human beings like this.

But that is all we need to do, we cannot apologise for this, because what our parents, or parents parents did, is not our fault.

I would also argue that if somehow the positions were reversed the Africans would have done it to us.

When it comes to money, human moral values, disappear out of the window

ebulGery - what planet are you actually on?  you must be over 18 to be on here - everything these days resolves around money - I suggest you wise up and seriously get a grip.  Otherwise you are doomed.  Believe me!

Britain was a sea-faring, trading nation so we had lots of ships. Ships would go out to the Colonies loaded with one commodity and return filled with another. One of these commodities was slave labour. The slaves were not the property of the captain, so he had little vested interest in their well-being. I also believe that they were allowed a certain degree of 'natural losses en route, which might have resulted in sickly or dead slaves being thrown overboard.
But it should be said that Britain did not START the slave trade in Africa...it was part of the African way of life.

Why doesn't she use a trolley

they do that where I live, they are lying about everywhere Naydam

Unfortunately in these countries there is no old age pension, people have lots of children, to support

them in their old age.....but this is creating unsustainable population levels.

We have improved our medical care, in the past a large number of these children would not have survived disease

to reach adulthood

We help them out of humanity, but it has not solved the problem, it does concern me

I know it is terribly paternalistic but somehow Africa seems to me, to be us, as we once where, which brings out

my colonial instincts, I feel the need to help them , but I don't know how??????????

EbulGery - Oh dear - melt down time?.............................!

No Naydam that wont do, sorry

that still does not justify it to me

it was not part just of the African way of life, it was part of all of our way of life at one time

we had rejected in our own society at that time, and yet we indulged in the slave trade

and it was our need for slaves in the W.Indies and America that drove this

'SAS' in  Nigeria now as I type.

'SAS' in  Nigeria now as I type.

I am off on one again dewey



you do not have to take me seriously, although I believe what I say

ps

they have listened to me stewart

Cameron has disguised it as 'help' FFS we are now intervening. Apparently US special forces are 'giving a hand'.


Where is Russia's involvement in this situation??????????????

They're busy helping in Ukraine.

Russia have enough on their hands with Ukraine stewart

Naydam was right when he said earlier if we let wars rage in Africa that would solve their population problem

in fact that must happen, if they don't control their own population, but this will involve everybody, so women and children

will not be spared...so it increases brutality, so we end up with where we are with the kidnap of these girls

I don't see us intervening here stewart, we are helping, Good Luck has requested our help

I would not agree with any full scale invasion, we have already proved that does not work

But I think careful targeted strikes on Muslim terrorist is  good idea...Africa do not need these people

Boko Harem seem frankly evil to me, I would wish them gone

They're busy helping in Ukraine.

Russia have enough on their hands with Ukraine stewart


You cannot be serious ebulGery??  This country has never shown interest in what goes on in Africa.

Unfortunately, it's not a matter of whether or not Africa needs them. It's probably more of a matter as to whether or not the local Muslim leaders decide to disown the gang or treat them as freedom fighters.

I think world should unite to try to eradicate and clamp down hard on fundamental Islam and support moderate islam like the one practised in Malaysia, Indonesia and Turkey and in Nigeria before Boko Haram. Otherwise the whole world will be destabilized soon.

Of course by far the biggest problem with African countries, is over population.
Then why do we have to keep feeding them?????????????????
There has been a massive population increase in Nigeria, how can such a poor country support this?
I would have seen them as children we must help
and of course there is a very dark side to Africa I am afraid ...humanity at its worst I am afraid

I still feel a need to salvage them
but we never quite got the savage out of them did we ,
I wish I had a slave to clean my house   


ebulGery, you have let yourself down big time in this thread considering you are intelligent man. The sad fact is you could find all information with one click on the net. You don't seem to have read world history pre 1500 (Before slavery and colonialism).

It seems to me you have swallowed the propaganda intending to dehumanise Africa and Africans in order to exploit them through slavery and colonialism them for the last 500 years.

Europe have benefited immensely from African resources and labour, 500 years of millions of free labour (slavery) and later colonialism. Where the continent was massively depopulated and it was difficult to find young men as most were taken to slavery. It is true that Slavery have existed in many societies including African, Asian and European but Atlantic Slave trade took it to another level.

You can appreciate that it will take more than 50 years for these African countries to deal traumatic history and its legacy. (UK is still trying to sort out Northern Ireland and legacy of history there)

A quick glance on internet will show great African Kingdoms and civilization some of them existed long before European civilization and some at the same time as European Civilization. Kingdom like Kema, Kush,Egypt,Kongo, Angola,Kanen-Bornu, Songhai, Ghana, Mali, Meroe, Zimbabwe, Zulu, Buganda etc. The point being civilization is not reserved of any race or region of the world and to dismiss the whole Continent as savage, chlidlike, exist because of your aid is to fool yourself.

I will say Africans they have proved themselves to be great survivor and resilient, Natives of others continent were not so luck. Canada, Australia, USA and South America natives most of them were completely exterminated and wiped out of the face of earth.

It will also help to note fortune of Nations, Empires and Countries goes through cycle(rise and fall), Persia, Babylon, Egypt, Ethiopia, Kush, Greece, Roman,British, China, India,Japan, Ottoman, Russia, French, Arabs were once great empires. US is currently calling the shot but it seems to me its influence in the world is waning gradual.

So you can be sure Africa, Asia, South American will rise in time even perhaps even during our lifetime. The best we can do is work with them for mutually benefits.

Got to agree with stewarty b, Britain, and European in general have show no particular genuine interest help Africa apart from guarding their own interest. Better way to help will be to support good leaders and trade in equal footing between Europe and Africa, a bit like China and Africa. Where China take raw materials from Africa in return build infrastructure.(Roads, railways, communications systems, ports, airports, housing,factories,etc.)

Nigeria GDP currently is 510bn, 26 biggest economy. In six years is projected to be in top 20 economies of the world. It is projected to be 5th largest by 2050 (36 years from now) ahead of UK (which will be 10th).

Total British aid to Nigeria economy in 5 years (2010-2015) is about 1 billion (DfiD data) less than 0.2% of this year Nigeria GDP you can appreciate this is there for symbolic value. Taking into account that part of charities and aid is spent on administration, fund raising drive, advertising, rent, paying staffs, it is tiny amount which reach intended recipient.

Population growth naturally tends to decrease with improvements of income and education. It will be the same with Nigeria as it has been for all other countries. Few well educated middle class women of whatever culture want seven children or more. What they want is to enjoy life and pursue rewarding career. Taking the size of the continent it is really not overpopulated in the first instance. Compare to India, or China, population density is much smaller. Trade, education and good governance is way to get rid of poverty not aid.

Sadly, the leaders of these militant groups will not be able to accept that you are trying to do good.

@Naydam,
i think the whole world including Muslims all around the world should condemn the actions terrorists and countries which support them, how can it right to kidnap girls in the name of any religion?

There 1.6bn muslims i think majority are peaceful but it the extremists one who needed to be rooted out. The west have not help matter going around the world removing dictator who tried to keep an eye on extremists e.g Saddam, Bashir, Gadaffi,Mubarak without proper plan of who will take their place therefore leave vacuum which have been filled with these extremists.

You a bit unfair on me bizma, I am on their side.

But at the moment Africa does seem benighted by civil wars, because they are basically tribal. This is reality.

It is us Europeans who tried to make them nations.

I know we exploited them , I can see that. So I feel we owe them a debt of help. But it is not easy.

Sometimes when we help, we makes things worse.

You should have read some of my later posts

stewart

Russia has never exploited Africa, or had colonies there. Why should it be involved??????

We have only committed to finding these girls at the moment.

I would hope we offer more long term support, after all as long as Boko Harem exist, they can do it again.

I also think there is a population problem in Africa.

I have severe doubts that this continent will ever compete well in our world capitalist system.

This system only benefits the more successful countries, not the less successful.

I wish I had a slave to clean my house 

I was being facetious there bizman

although I could do with one

Perhaps my views are paternalistic or colonial, I dream of myself as one of those colonialists

but a good one!

They were starving in the Sudan when Geldof and company got involved a quarter of  century ago.
People donated millions.
Did it cure anything?
No,it made it worse.
There are now more of them, and they are still starving.
If the Sudan was a horse, you'd shoot it.

nail on the head taxi, I do see that

but humanity demands we do something, but its population growth that beats us all the time

I apologize if i have missed some your posts,

Look at the history of continent many leaders who tried to unite the continent were either assassinated of frustrated with the help of covert and overt western support. People like Steve Biko, Lumumba,  Kwame Nkrumah. There were seen as threat to western interest.

There were already some powerful kingdoms there equivalent in size with average European countries i have already given some names above. I am optimistic, i see the world in 50 or 100 years time in much more better shape and in 500 years extremists in Muslims countries will increasingly lose support, a little bit like Christianity were 600 years ago.

And there are fewer wars today than 30 years ago in Africa and larger middle class than even ten years ago. And so there is progress.

I these kinds of Boko Haram activities need to be declared crimes against humanity and punished accordingly.
Population will sort itself out with higher standard of living, better education, more rights for women people will naturally decide to have fewer children.

@call me a taxi,
Aid is never a solution, trade is the solution. For instance exchange oil for equivalent amount of infrastructure, eg Educational facilities, roads, hospitals, a bit like what Chinese are doing over there. In time these infrastructure will help much more people. Aid goes to the pocket of few people for their own personal benefit.

I think we need to give Africa time.

agree bizman

Nothing you say is wrong bizman....it is just not so easy for these countries to become competitive

and Nigeria population is growing at an alarming rate...I am nothing like as optimistic as you bizman

I don't think it easy for them to become competitive in the world market, even  in their domestic markets as they have to compete with multinationals. Africa small companies have to compete with multinationals giants, plus policy like common european markets is not helping africa to penetrate European markets.

I notice today Chinese president is in Nigeria since tuesday for World Economic Forum and has pledged support to help find the girls together with UK and USA. He also signed agreement to double trade between Africa and China to 400bn by 2020 while quadrupling Chinese investment in the continent to $100 billion. He also pledge to develop Joint airline company between China and Africa to serve the continent, and in Ethiopia,  Huajian Group shoe manufacturing company is set to employ more than 100,000 Ethiopians in the next 10 years.

http://www.ibtimes.com/chinese-premier-li-keqiang-pledges-economic-support-nigerian-president-goodluck-jonathan-1581271

I think Europe should be doing similar things. Otherwise it will miss opportunities.

I commend China on this..

Even in their communist state, I think they helped Africa more than us

Even in their communist state, I think they helped Africa more than us



I take it that this post was tongue in cheek?

yes and no

they are still communist

but China now has a capitalist economy, not a communist one

There are few great project Chinese undertook during communist time mainly due to ideological reasons as China was almost as poor as Africa. TAZARA Tanzania- Zambia Raiway, regarded as one of the greatest enginering effort of its kind since WWII, and Guinea- Mali railways http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TAZARA_Railway. But at that time china was extremely poor so it difficult to be sure.

Interesting statistics from UN on how the world will look like from 1950 to 2300. It is only projections, but nevertheless interesting statistics: http://www.un.org/esa/population/publications/longrange2/WorldPop2300final.pdf

The one and ONLY thing we should be teaching them is birth control. Until they accept that they will never progress.
What is the demographic average family unit in Nigeria? Do they even HAVE an average family unit?

As I pointed out - 60 years ago I was collecting save the children envelopes with my mother - what has changed

Someone pointed out that moderate muslims are in the majority but even the parents of dead syrian fighters have said they are martyrs  - work that one out - so even a moderate implicitly supports terrorism.   Do you see the quandry they have??!!

Moderate Muslims cannot speak out again Muslim Terrorists, they would endanger their own lives

This is what happened in N.Ireland, Catholics could never publicly condemn the IRA they would have been killed by the IRA

Also it is against our own natures for us to condemn our own anyway, otherwise we risk ending up friendless

the best you can hope for is they do not actively support them, that is the key

All they need is an education so they have a better chance of working their way out of poverty.The birth control will happen naturally as peoples income and aspirations improve.

very true Bigmo...but people's income may not improve naturally

without perhaps the China solution, they are in a trap, as China were, so China broke the cycle forcibly

Or the British and the protestant para military's.

Or Christian Europe and the slave trade.

Nor Christian Germany during the holocaust.

you put us in a quandary on here Northern Lad

as far as terrorism, one has to try and separate them from the normal population

so in Uganda, you have to try and separate Boko Harem form the ordinary Muslims

or you risk ending up with civil war, which of course is what Boko Harem want, with the Muslims winning

as far as Syria is concerned moisok, you have got civil war I regret, they have gone well beyond the terrorist stage

it has got completely out of control sadly

The  government of Uganda would never be able to enforce birth control

so we are back with your solution Bigmo...I see that

Rescue as many as possible, when all that are left in their hideout are Islamist nutjobs, blow it to smithereens with an air strike.
Any missiles left, do the country a favour and bomb Blackpool.

Any missiles left, do the country a favour and bomb Blackpool.

You were talking about the normal populace of a country turning a blind eye eG.

That happens everywhere even in small groups- man beating woman in the street - women being raped on a train by a drunken gang.
Vast majority will walk by/sit and say to themselves-

"Nothing to do with me - mustn't get involved"..

eG Try to keep from going off on tangents. Stick to one post covering a subject and allow others to reply before posting another.
O and stop leaving a space between every line.

Just my opinion!

OR MARS WILL ATTACK!

[   This image is no longer available.   ]

YAAACK! YACK! YACK! YACK! YACK!

I like my spaces Northern Lad

and I like talking to myself a lot...I am mad

yes we do turn a blind eye..it is human nature

we fear if we get involved..a gang will turn on us or

we just don't want the bother getting involved..it easier to walk by on the other side,

Jesus's story of the good Samaritan of course.

However often terrorists or indeed guerrilla fighters will terrorize their own side as much as the other,

in order to ensure they get their support

Your Kebab shop again

the book demands, tells you, that anyone dying in the pusuit of rightful cause is a martyr

or a lunatic

the book demands, tells you, that anyone dying in the pusuit of rightful cause is a martyr

I think what is meant by that is giving your life for your beliefs, not taking a life. That spectacularly misses the point.

yes and it appears that moderates think that this is ok to be a martyr

I must admit that I don't the real requirements for martyrdom, but I thought that killing people was alright as long as it was in the furtherance of Islam. I also seem to recall that duplication (lying) is perfectly acceptable, again if it is in the furtherance of Islam.
I cannot recall whence I formed these impressions but, if true, it means that they are encouraged to lie to you and to destroy you.
Does anybody know if these thoughts are correct?

*don't know* FFS!

muslims do not like infidels so they sure won't like you naydam

they cannot be your friend even though you might think they are

Tony Blair told a few lies I remember, he claims he is a Catholic

Still if I was God he would definitely not be getting into heaven

down below for you Tony, I would say

We must only kill Muslim Terrorists, not ordinary Muslims

or it makes us no better than they are

Boko Harem are terrorists

just my opinion

Boko Harem announced today that they have saved these children my making them Muslims. Nothing about the distress they have caused the families. If the SAS could go in and put a bullet in these parasites I would be the first to applaud.

Like I said before why should we get involved? But I would like to see these drug fuelled terrorists dead, every one of them.

First you must establish whether any of the girls (unlikely as it seems) wanted to become Muslims. Plenty of Christians in this country are converting freely.


Your solution will give rise to the next wave of Boco Harem X 1000.

Nothing better than proclaiming martyrs against the heavily armed western invaders to drum up support.

How do you thing radical Islam has spread across continents?

They didn't do it by reading passages from the Quoran.

How do you thing radical Islam has spread across continents?

By allowing too much immigration.

End of story.

Lets have a collection and send them funding - Nlad can put a collecting box on the counter.

You missed the 'o' out of 'Fargoism' but I don't watch it anyway.

well who would have guessed who would be implying support of terrorism on here

First you must establish whether any of the girls (unlikely as it seems) wanted to become Muslims. Plenty of Christians in this country are converting freely.

They have been kidnapped Northern Lad

Are you seriously suggested they wanted to be, taken from their families, and sold off as

as brides at 10 years old

You would think different if it was your daughter, even if you have none, surely you can imagine your feelings?

I caution us not to kill ordinary Muslims

I do not extend this consideration to Boko Harem, they kill and kidnap ordinary Nigerians

They are being held hostage in demand for Muslim Militants to be freed

but I cannot see the Nigerian government doing business, it would encourage repeats

I hope we find these girls in time

But I also hope we offer the Nigerian government continued  support in fighting this evil group

northern lad would stop all that on the point of debating the rights of the girls to convert to islam
but then he is a supporter of islam

I was asking a deeper question?

When they are returned will they all repudiate everything their captors have told them.

Will one or two think it was wrong what they did, but what they told us made me start to question for the first time womens role in our country, and the corruption of our ruling government propped up by the west?

Anyone ever heard of Patti Hearst.

No I suppose its a bit too long ago and highbrow a topic down at the local for you.

no you are not
you are implying support for islamists
but I would expect nothing less from you
a homophobic racist who hates the english
your support as a marxist for these groups astounds me
and your support for a not socialist labour party

Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah!

but what they told us made me start to question for the first time womens role in our country

I would of thought it would be the complete opposite.

Now let me think, an education free from prejudice and a chance to make my own decisions, or walking 10 yards behind my husband/cousin, covered from head to foot, and a chance my daughter may have her genitals mutilated.

Tough decision.

Anyone ever heard of Patti Hearst.

She was an adult, who may or may not have colluded with her kidnappers

these are 200 children, you think they colluded in their own kidnapping, what planet are you on Northern Lad??????

I am in a difficult position Northern Lad, I am all too aware of the West's failings in the Middle East, it shocked and disappointed me.

But Africa has got enough problems already without Muslim Terrorists, we must help Africa countries to get rid of them.

I also feel we have an obligation to fellow Christians, although I am not advocating another Crusade, just a bit of help that is all.

Christians in Egypt also have their genitals mutilated, the practice predates Islam.

Jewish males also have their genitals mutilated in 2014 in the UK and all perfectly legal.

You seem very selective about who can and cannot practice genital mutilation?

I contend NOBODY should practice it whether Jewish, Christian, Muslim. Male or Female.
Religious or traditional culture, it must be made illegal.

NO TOLERANCE FOR MUTILATING CHILDREN/BABIES!

I also feel we have some obligation, as Nigeria was an ex British Colony.

Not full scale military intervention, but we can offer them some specialised help

ps
Northern Lad, male circumcision is a very minor operation, there is no comparison, I don't why it started??

Female circumcision is very intrusive, in fact only practiced in the most backward Muslim countries.

I think we can lose that one.

Fat is it pre dates Islam. Coptic Christians in Egypt practice GM.

You are right that in the poorest countries it is prevalent. Many of which happen to be Muslim but that has nothing to do with Islam.

As for circumcision being of minor intrusion?

There shouldn't be any clinical intrusion with a scalpel to a healthy baby.

The practice for hygiene reasons in the hot sweaty middle east were taking a bath/shower was a luxury is in some way understandable, but Muslims in far hotter conditions never picked up the practice of male GM.

In this day and age there is no reason for its original purpose hygiene!

does male circumcision have health benefits without me being gross about foreskins etc etc
islamists are more about the domination of women and attacking anyone outside of their politico/religios organisation.

One thing you have to know it is as much a political organisation as anything else

you want to divert and obfiscate northernliar
the militants need to be illiminated
filth like this that you implicitly support by your handwringing diversions need to be got rid off

these girls don't want to be anywhere near these murderers but you calmly imply support of them

amazing but when you consider your support for islamists it is not surprising

true moisok

I fear Northern Lad just likes to wind us all up personally

Not a case of winding others up he seems to wind himself up the most imo.

true pumphol

You may support Muslims, you may be one?...Northern Lad

but only the peaceful ones please, that is all I ask

I support common sense irrespective of race, religion, creed or colour.

You just keep going on about 'them' who are destroying our country.

Sad, uneducated and a breeding ground for your foreign couterparts, Boko Harem.

Never occurred to you most of your perceived problems in this country may have just been caused by ourselves?

common sense

you are obsessed with UKip Northern Lad......that I do know

it is as pumphol says, you do wind yourself, without much of a clue where you are going at times?????

still you do liven up the forum a bit, I give you that

The US has put two 'spy' planes on the job. I hope Obama gives the go ahead and sends in 1,000 of their special forces to wipe out these ***********.  It just might send a message to other brainwashed, drug fuelled parasites in the region.

yes but it is northernliars implicit support of islamists and their back up from the 'community'
even the parents of dead syrian fighters regard them as martyrs - and they are northernliar's moderates!!??