Not read the replies because Mc Moonbeam is surely one of the biggest trolls on here from past stuff that I've seen of his and from the thread title. Sad.

The Beatles were the first group. Before there were solo artists like
Presley or groups with a lead singer and backing band, the first to share
vocals and have more than one songwriter. Everything was self-contained
within the group, this had never really been done before and became the
expected blueprint for future American and English groups.

It seems to me the whole ‘Beatles were a pop band, not very good, unlike [insert band of choice], who were great’, would make more sense if the bands in question weren’t often so obviously influenced by (or even happy to copy or cover) them.

Would a cool psychedelic guitar pioneer like the mentioned Jimi Hendrix have gone to the trouble of learning Sgt Pepper’s so he could perform it live the day it came out if they were the equivalent of The Monkees in terms of credibility? He performed other Beatles’ songs too.

And while on the Monkees, there is really very little difference between a song like I Wanna Be Free, sung by cute Davy Jones and The Velvet Underground’s Sunday Morning, sung by Lou Reid, or Femme Fetale, sung by Nico. The VU were a pop band, with verses and choruses (“It’s all versus and choruses, innit”, as Jimmy Page once said) like any other pop band.

One of the interesting things about The Doors and The Velvet Underground is that while they have gained a mystical cool status over the years, their early demos show that the former were influenced by straight lounge jazz and the other by straight country blues.

The lyrics of course set the Velvets apart and yes the Beatles at times look very poor in comparison, but so does Led Zeppelin’s backwards-looking and faintly ridiculous writing and posturing and the whole prog/heavy rock lyric writing that followed.

Paint it Black is terrific – would this be the one with sitar, like The Beatles’ Norwegian Wood a year before? The Beatles had started writing comedy songs, they said, and this was one. What did Keith Richards say about Paint it Black next year? Ah, it was a comedy song (also with a sitar). So whatever moment-defining importance you think it has, it was just a joke song to them. Norwegian Wood, part 2 interms of ideas and instrumentation. Listen to the Rolling Stones’ Child of the Moon. Not only does its melody derive from the Beatles’ Rain (a year before), it even contrasts ‘rain’ and ‘sun’ in the lyrics. It’s basically a stylistic copy. You see this in hundreds of songs, album covers, lyrics, engineering techniques and so on. You can say today the Beatles were only a pop band but there's very little evidence that many of their contemporaries really thought that way.

You have of course picked the silliest song in the whole of their repertoire, pumpy.

Good post FlowerMyth, the single most important thing in popular music,
and the most difficult is can you write a song. The Beatles were pioneers
in this and made it the expected norm, not an unusual thing, and this lead
to all groups in the 60s and 70s having to be able to this.

It meant that suddenly anyone, with little or no musical training, could
form a band and all of these bands would produce new music. This lead to
an incredibly productive time for music. It was a golden era.

"There must be an awful lot of gullible people about if they weren't that good".Hit the nail on the head there Kenny.The pop music "industry" relies on this gullibility.

So to sum up.The Beatles.Poor singers,poor musicians,poor songwriters - but,in the right place at the right time,with the right image , good management and a gullible general public = ££££££££££££££.

artie is Derek Thompson. Talks out of his asre.

I spent quite a few days in Derek Thomson's company Kenny. My company used him for shop openings and I would be charged with collecting him at the airport and taking him to various units. Was normally a 9 to 5 thing and involved a fair bit of travel so he was in my car for anything from 2 to 4 hours. He was okay to be honest, really friendly unlike McCririck who I also ran about.

I paid for his service and posted his bets on General Betting several years ago. Gerry did all the spouting (he was very good at that) We had a lot of fun.

McRirick asked Thomson once on The Morning Line:

'What is your maximum stake for yourself when you advise a 'maximum bet' on your phone tipping service?'

Thommo said 'I'm a family man, I don't go mad.' 

McRirick asked him again 'Don't beat about the bush, what is your maximum stake?' 

The answer was 'Ten quid. I've got children.'

Its amazing how a thread can divert from its original topic, were be talking about Panyan pickle next !!!

lol class Taxi.

There is only one person on the wrong thread here

"Most people in the music business quote The Beatles as a great influence, surely they can't all be wrong." Most people in the music business know the correct thing to say to keep the general public on their side.What they really think is another matter.

You only had to watch the Beatle's Tribute that was on the other night to notice that their music STILL appeals to ALL generations.

"their music STILL appeals to ALL generations." That doesn't mean it's any good.

" clever lads. " Undoubtedly clever - skilled entrepreneurs.Just useless musically.

"You only had to watch the Beatle's Tribute that was on the other night to notice that their music STILL appeals to ALL generations."

There's one tribute band The Bootleg Beatles and they've been going for 30 years, that is 3 times longer than the 'real'  Beatles were together.