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These 71 comments are related to the topic:
Does anyone not believe that assisted dying
Does anyone not believe that assisted dying
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Replies: 71
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I would hope the option is open to me Dobbo
in most cases, not all, Doctors can control the pain it is the degradation which gets to a lot of people, cannot control ones own bowels, etc |
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You are right of course ebu but we must start at the bottom line (see Slippys post). All of us risk this horrific end to our lives and it can be prevented. Caution is needed but it is a basic human right to die on our own terms surely?
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yes
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it is just, we have to be sure, it is the own person's decision to end their life, which I think is a right
and they have not been influenced into it by others, that will be the opposition this bill will face in parliament, I feel, but I hope it is passed |
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lets start at the right end of the argument. You are dying of pancreatic cancer.You are in agony. Your death is certain.The agony will last a week, two weeks, three weeks, three months?You are vomiting your own feaces.
No doctor can cure you but he can help you by supplying the drug that you can use of your own volition to end your pain. Its a no brainer. Support he assisted dying bill. Who knows? In 10 or 20 years time you may be truly thankful that you did. in this case there would already be an assisted dying process in the form of the Liverpool Care Pathway would there not? The ****torm that has caused provides an indication of just how controversial any bill would be. |
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http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/healthnews/9644287/NHS-millions-for-controversial-care-pathway.html
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.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/healthnews/9644287/NHS-millions-for-controversial-care-pathway.html |
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my nan was put on it last year after getting a really nasty infection amongst other problems. My only issue with it is they often don't inform the relatives specifically that the LCP is to be employed. Her condition improved and she was taken off it quite quickly and was back to her residential home a week later. I suppose that should mean I should be against it however she was in a real bad way at the time and at 91, also suffering from dementia and not having been able to recognise any relatives for the last five years or so I think it was the right thing to do at the time. Such a difficult subject though...what constitutes an acceptable quality of life and who get's to decide? One things for sure I know that I wouldn't want to spend ten years in a home waking up wondering who is who and whats going on.
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re:Dobbo 21 Jan 14 00:55
Lets start at the right end of the argument. You are dying of pancreatic cancer.You are in agony. Your death is certain.The agony will last a week, two weeks, three weeks, three months?You are vomiting your own feaces. No doctor can cure you but he can help you by supplying the drug that you can use of your own volition to end your pain. Its a no brainer. Support he assisted dying bill. Who knows? In 10 or 20 years time you may be truly thankful that you did. but WHY does that person require assistance Dobbo? Arterial spurt is quick and relatively painless (groin, neck - you don't have to be that precise). Bit messy granted, but lie in bath and put duvet over yourself to catch most of the blood. The only people who need assistance are those who are paralysed from the neck down, for everyone else the harsh fact is that they want someone else to do it for them - to me that's not that action of someone who wants to die. When it comes to cases like dementia - as hard it is for those around you - because you are not you anymore - you might be acting irrationally, but quite happy nevertheless. |
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The Bill does not allow for "someone" doing it for them and it has nothing to do with euthanasia. Its simple
"Assisted dying is when a terminally ill, mentally competent adult, making the choice of their own free will and after meeting strict legal safeguards, takes prescribed medication which will end their life." Not everyone fancies bleeding to death in the bath and why should they? |
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..the option is already there and is being used successfully and compassionately every day....and thank God that it is...
..about a year ago.. after a 3 year fight with cancer.... my father was drowning in his own flem as pneumonia overtook him ...while I and my mum and brother and sister were taking turns holding one of those cardboard things for him...as we had been for the past 12 hours while he was trying to cough it up....which he couldn't.. the iv morphine was not enough... ..he.. and we... chose a couple of injections within the remit of the LCP....within 30 minutes he had peace with his loved ones around him... ..there really was no other choice....but thank god there was at least some kind of choice. Life at all costs........nonsensical....and barbaric!! |
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Wow! Tough one really - I think it would depend on the individual case.........as I said. imo - Tough one.
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that's very interesting egner - did you know the drugs were being administered and what they going to do?
The hospital killed my father - absolutely convinced of it, but this was 30 years ago. He'd had stroke after stroke and couldn't walk, barely any control over his limbs and could only manage to sound the odd word now and again. It was a young doctor who [eventually] asked me as a 19 year-old "don't you think your father has suffered enough", a matron stuck a yellow form in front of me which I signed without reading (just wanted the nightmare to end) and at 6 am the following morning the hospital called to say he'd passed away peacefully during the night - yeah, like hell he did. When we went over there were nurses who were so angry with me and had the audacity to tell me that my father had "years of life left". This from nurses who used to leave my father in the day room furthest from the ward so they didn't have deal with his shouting and we'd find him freezing in his pyjamas, distressed where he'd been for god knows how long. I was terrified that the form I'd signed was some sort of euthanasia agreement and it would show up on the death certificate so I went to see our family GP - who had looked after my father for decades - all he could say was "they shouldn't have let you do it, you're too young. Don't worry, the death cert will say heart attack, nobody will ever know". True to his word, that's exactly what is did say, and my mother never did know. F*cking hypocrites the lot of them, our GP knew what we'd been through for years, but as soon as someone else gives me the form to sign that's fine. |
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that's very interesting egner - did you know the drugs were being administered and what they going to do?
yes...I asked for them.....nothing untoward.....the framework was in place...was about 130 in the morning. ..went to the nurses station and simply asked for something to help him "sleep" ..the male nurse nodded...went to ok it with the doctor on the ward...about 10 minutes later came back with the vials. lots of tears.. but as I said...nothing untoward....nothing chilling about...simply compassion. in our case anyway. |
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My brother-in-law had the sole responsibility to agree with the turning off of my sisters' life support - will never know.
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oh and on the death certificate the cause was pneaumonia... which it was of course even if technically things were hurried along a little in the name of compassion.
..it is the same in many cancer deaths I think. |
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My Dad went from being a big proud 17 stone Irishman, who was my hero in life, to basically a hollow shell with no dignity left and suffering terrible pain. It completely destroyed all of us to watch a splendid man suffer like that.
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..sorry to hear that slippy....
..in the modern age there really is no need for it. |
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but we're all saying this is a good and kind thing, like they did something fantastically altruistic. Why is it THEIR decision to make? why do we have to live through the the suffering of our relatives, or the suffering of our own illness until some [in many cases] arrogant, over-paid, health-care professional decides they may deign to help us?
It's all so hit and miss - you could go to a nurses' station on another night and have a very different outcome. |
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.no yeahyeah we couldn't have got a different outcome.....
...the cancer had overtaken him...so had the jaundice....and so had the pneaumonia.... ...this had already been discussed with the ward and dad and all of us about s days before.....not that we needed telling...no miracle was going to happen... ..only one option remained ....compassion.....that is the crux of the matter...compassion. |
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sorry egner, I didn't grasp that. I didn't realise it had been discussed previously.
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no problem yeahyeah...
..in fact if we and dad had had our way it would have been done about 3 weeks earlier when he lost hope and was exhausted both mentally and physically from the past 3 years..... ...I feel sad typing it and kind of reliving something so personal.... ..but it enrages me that so much misinformation has been put out about the LCP ... ..when used wisely and its implications discussed intelligently it can relieve so much unnecessary suffering in a controlled environment and allow people to have some dignity in their final hours. |
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I don't think it bothers any of my friends....
They are forever giving me gift vouchers for Dignitas. |
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My Father asked me to put a pillow over his face every day for the last month of his life, dying from cancer.
My Father in Law has Motor Neurone disease and faces the same dilemma in the not too distant future, Switzerland is being discussed. It absolutely is a can of worms, but in this day and age we should be creative enough to be able to find a solution - we are more kind to our pets. |
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could they not get round it. Is there a poison that can be broken into two seperate constituents? each half harmless. combining in the body to create a fatal response. i'm thinkin coke/pepsi?
if i was gonna do myself in - i'd eat a lot of cheese. drink whisky and smoke big fat cigars. This sticking a gun under your chin is lazy. parachute into a raging volcano? |
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Trying to remember what I said wrong last night - post removed. I suppose it must have been abuse of lawyers. But surely they deserve to be rogered by Steely Dan IV until eternity ends. Or maybe it was (laterally)insulting those most against euthanasia. Or maybe it was the last question.
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I noticed your post but cannot remember what you said. It was probably something classified as offensive, which is just about every thing.
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I asked how your head was. In which case it must have been abusing the lawyers. Bastards.
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difficult one as you cannot trust either the nhs or the relatives to do the right thing in a lot of cases.
if the patient is of sound mind and wants to end their own life, relatives in agreement, senior doctors in agreement (i.e not just a junior doctor on a night shift), and the environment controlled, then I agree on assistance to end life where there is no other outcome but prolonging the agony. |
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seen a programme, dignitas,sat on a sofa with his wife,sipped a drink from a glass tumbler,slowly fell asleep,assistant monitored his heart,then gently told his wife, he had passed away,thats how i would like to go.
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Rather than Indignitas where a Clown comes round and pushes you out of the window.
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it seems rationality goes out the window with death. apparently someone on death row suffered a slow agonising death due to the lethal drugs administered, it took them half an hour to croak it.
what's wrong with a good old fashioned firing squad in those cases? for the rest of us... I'd like to think that people can have the choice to take their own life if they're (physically) terminally ill. I don't think anyone else is in a position to decide your own life outwith what doctor's have in their power just now. |