Who here believes in the death penalty?

But MisterBadger, the evidence was 'bombproof' according to the evidence provided in 1976.

It was only with hindsight to be seen as one of the worst miscarriages of justice of all time.

Kiszko was remanded until his murder trial, which began on 7 July 1976 under Sir Hugh Park. He was defended by David Waddington QC, who later became Home Secretary. The prosecuting QC, Peter Taylor, later became Lord Chief Justice the day after Kiszko was cleared of the murder in 1992. Taylor was most noted for his reports into the Hillsborough Disaster at the Sheffield Wednesday FC football stadium at Hillsborough, Sheffield.

what more do you need to know? 

I couldn't agree more tommy, there needs to be material, corroborated, evidence

too many tory cvuns involved in the above case, they will always look after their own first

we all know about miscarriages of justice - it's a very old record.

eg guildford 4, bham 6, Carl Bridgewater  - all in the 70's and 80's


+++++++++++++++

with cctv  / dna / video confessions in the cop shop / people admitting to murder at the trial....things have moved on. A copper can no longer beat the **** out of you for a confession


then life for a life

With a proviso


Any copper found guilty of manipulating evidence then max life imprisonment sentence available -  to stop bent coppers stitching people up (like they used to)

But Emden, there are and always will be provisos.

People of any given era think the latest technology provides the uncontrovertible proof.

This is not so - and is always superseded at a later date.

Would the death of one innocent man or woman (your father or mother, say) be worth killing everyone who falls into a specific criteria at one particular moment in time?

all forms of life are worthy of compassion

sorry bb, can't see that - what are the redeeming qualities of those I mentioned above?

waste of time

not happening in any of your lifetimes

TT

I  like to think I am a reasonable man.

I know of lots of cases of miscarriages of justice.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2009/may/05/gerry-conlon-miscarriage-of-justice   (The 2nd paragraph I agree with)


However, in exceptional circumstances - like the one I mentioned above - the death penalty should apply.

Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

The death penalty will never be reinstated so no need for the antis to worry - the majority are always ignored in this country

Emden, I see many cases on the news where the automatic, human response is 'they should hang for that' - but as I'm trying to postulate, the death penalty is never a thing which can be taken at pure face value.

Kizsco admitted to his 'crime' in 1976: "Kiszko confessed to the crime after three days of intensive questioning: he believed that by doing so he would be allowed to go home, and that the ensuing investigations would prove him innocent and his confession false."

How many people on here would think if the case was being heard now that the man could be innocent?

The weak can never forgive. Forgiveness is the attribute of the strong.

Kizsco admitted to his 'crime' in 1976:

you're referring to Stefan Kiszko . I'm aware of the case.

The coppers stitched him up. The coppers got away with it. THe law need to be changed when coppers fabricate evidence they face the full wrath of the law - unlike now ,  when then they retire 'early'

I know who I am referring to, Emden. No need to get upset about a typo. We all make them.

You say 'unlike now' about people fabricating evidence

I say it is something which you can never be assured of.

That's the way life is.
There is - and always will be - room for doubt, no matter how damning a set of circumstances a crime appears at the time.

That's why our justice system has long been regarded as one of the best in the world - especially now we no longer kill people.

Tricky one.  The police, who are often morally indistinguishable from the criminals, try to fix up people to get a quick result and a high clear-up rate.  In the US they usually go for the nearest mentally sub-normal young black man.  Recent DNA tests on old cases show they often got the wrong guy.  Must be Kafkaesque if you're the wrong guy. I'd be happy to top the obvious killers like Brady, West and Black.  Saves a lot of money.  Coming from the other side I'd be happy to top a lot of lawyers - the ones who get rich on stringing things out for ever (orioles and e&o excepted).  Anyhow, when civilization collapses in the near-future, we'll be back to lynch-mobs (cheap but often inaccurate - though time-saving).  And when, if ever, did the guilty ever get their just desserts?

Kiszko - the admirable Monkey Dust did a wonderful running skit on his case, poor bugger.  Unfortunately they also did one on a headmaster who killed a young girl. Thanks to lots of money directed to expensive lawyers you can't get series 2&3.  You know what I mean - and it wasn't right.

At worst, a child killer should be shut in a soundproofed room, 6 feet square, with one hand tied behind his back, to see how tough he is against the father of the dead child, who has both hands free, and no convictions to follow, whatever happens.  And if any christian parents can't do the right thing, let me at him. He'll live, but me and Mr Pliers will guarantee he never touches a child again.

You're Chaka Demus?

No, my feelings are of sympathy towards the victims, more than anamosity towards the killers.

Dead victims don't understand sympathy, or remorse from scumbags in court rooms.

Dale Cregan handed himself in because he knew he'd be shot dead by Manchester Police for the cold-blooded killing of two policewomen. Another facking coward who can spend the rest of his life with 3 meals a day and a roof over his head. And just at todays rates, that's a million pounds of taxpayers money to look after him, instead of up putting him up against the wall, and shooting him.

So you don't have an automatic and unwanted spell-checker, sparky?

Tonight, for the first time my posts on here are queried (or would be if I made a mistake).  You got an anamosity through, which gets me a red line.

?

For the first time ever, my posts on here are spell-checked.  I got a new computer with Windows 8 this week so it may be due to that.  Just wondered if it was something the goons on bf had introduced generally.

lol not me!

It's an immotive issue for sure. One that in an initial instance I think, where absolute and irrefutable proof has been assertained, then line 'em up. However, we'll never see a day in our lifetimes where such a thing may happen.

Is that re the sneaky betfair spell-checker or capital punishment, Gnarly?

Spellchecker, obviously!

Haha!

America has the death penalty
does not have much effect on the murder rate

The programme shown recently, with Trevor McDonald, was very interesting. Where he was talking to inmates on Death Row.

I am in favour of the death penalty - as long as they don't show up in beef burgers

As well as the death penalty, I'd be all for torture as well. A good birching, a stoning or two, torture by sand paper and some excruciating pain and suffering, a proper deterrent for the mother effers.

I'm all for some involvement of the victim's family & friends.

Maybe we could have a weekly tv show on a Friday night, a bit like the running man.

Mobo

I used to be strongly opposed to The Death Penalty when i was younger but now my attitude has changed completely........String The Fookers Up.

I used to be strongly opposed to The Death Penalty when i was younger but now my attitude has changed completely........String The Fookers Up.

I'm a vengeful person.  If a heinous crime were committed against my friends or family I'd want the perpetrator dead, not living in prison for ten or fifteen years.

As it would be hypocritical to expect others to be more humane and forgiving than myself, I'm in favour of reintroducing the death penalty.

I wouldn't restrict it to murder either.  That **** who gouged his girlfriend's eyes out in Plymouth last year being a case in point.

not me

That evil **** who killed the schoolgirl on the bus yesterday, another one who deserves the death penalty.

When it emerges that the guy who killed the schoolgirl yesterday was a known schizophrenic and had been failed repeatedly by our woeful care system, will your opinion change pokermonster?

The fact is that there can be no justification for state-sponsored murder, however heinous the crime. Have a little think about the societies in which it is still used - would you want to live in any of them?

Do you genuinely believe that the Police would stop fabricating, planting and manipulating evidence if their dupe would be hanged?

1) No.

2) I do live in one of them.

3) Possibly, if the penalties were harsh enough for those responsible.

So then, what would you do with people with personality disorders which could potentially lead them to commit violent acts? Would you just put them down?

No, only if they killed someone.  I'm not heartless.

I wonder how those who preach forgiveness, bang the drum of human rights, call the death penalty barbaric, accuse the police of falsifying evidence etc would maintain their stance if them and their family were affected first hand and devastated by a crime for which those responsible were bang to rights in front the judge.

I would want, and find any way I could, to tear the perpetrator apart.

But that proves very little imo.

I don't see it as a human rights issue - I would make the prison regime nigh-on unbearable for the people in question, and life would mean life.

Some would stick to their principles I suspect, HRH, but a few would want vengeance no doubt.  I'd be in the latter group.

Likewise, PM. And if the victim was one of those I hold close, I'd even volunteer to flick the switch.

In the case of the man who killed the schoolgirl yesterday, whether or not he was suffering from a mental illness is irrelevant in my view, the fact that he's a callous murderer trumps everything else.

What's the point of keeping him locked up forever where he'll just be a danger to all those around him?

MisterBadger
15 Feb 13 22:44   
e.g. baby peter - what point is there in letting his killers live? what will be their future contribution to society? hindley & brady? get rid, if only for cathartic reasons, subject to the above qualification

String up the facking social workers as well.

Victoria Climbie was killed in the borough of Haringey years earlier.

They had an inquiry, just to waste money, and the result of that was 'Lessons have been learned. This must not happen again.'

It shouldn't have happened in the first facking place, you coonts.

But it did happen again.

Baby P was also killed in Haringey.

I'm all for letting 'em swing as and when there is irrefutable proof.

The Baby P saga touched us all I would expect, and there could have easily been another case of it's ilk if it wasn't for a health worker taking the job seriously down in Plymouth during October 2010.

.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-devon-15187722

Plymouth four-month-old boy 'assaulted by parents'
A boy from Plymouth was assaulted by his own parents when he was less than four months old, a court has heard.

A health visitor saw marks on Ethan Sheldon's legs in October 2010 which "set alarm bells ringing", Plymouth Crown Court heard.

X-rays revealed six healing fractures. He was also found to have 20 bruises.

Christopher Sheldon, 31, and Charlotte Sheldon, 23, deny child cruelty, but Mr Sheldon will claim during the trial his wife was responsible, the court heard.

'No explanation'
The health visitor who had come to weigh Ethan saw "linear" red marks, the court was told.

After he was taken to hospital by his parents on the same day, 5 October 2010, an X-ray revealed healing fractures.

They included breaks in three left ribs, his left collar bone, his right shin and one of his big toes.

The court heard the injuries could not have occurred accidentally,

Jo Martin, prosecuting, said that only the parents had enough access to Ethan in the months after he was born to have caused the injuries.

Either the couple - Christopher Sheldon, of Mount Batten Way, and Charlotte Sheldon, of Sefton Avenue - committed them together, Ms Martin said, or one was covering for the other.

She said: "Neither of them has given an explanation as to how these injuries were caused."

The trial continues.

.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-devon-21714206

A couple have been jailed for three years each for attacking their baby son.

Christopher, 32, and Charlotte Sheldon, 24, assaulted their son Ethan at least three times in the first four months of his life, Plymouth Crown Court heard.

Both were found guilty of ill treating or assaulting Ethan between his birth in May 2010 and October 2010 at their home in Sefton Avenue, Plymouth.

They were also convicted of failing to seek medical attention for his wounds.

Six broken bones
Plymouth Crown Court heard the baby was repeatedly struck with a long thin implement like a piece of flex or cutlery and squeezed so hard that his ribs broke.

The baby suffered six broken bones - three ribs, a collarbone, ankle and big toe - and 20 bruises which doctors said could not have been caused accidentally.

Both parents, who have since separated, blamed each other for harming their son.

The court heard Ethan would have been in pain for several days from his injuries.

How this pair of knuts have only got a 3 year prison sentance is beyond belief IMO. OK this new born will live to fight another day, hopefully under the wings of loving foster and/or adoptive parents, but who knows what may have happeend had a care worker not raised the alarm.

I take your point SF, and agree with you, I'm just thankful that there are a few good/adequate social workers out there.

Another candidate today for capital punishment.  I can't see anything to be gained from letting him live, except for him and he doesn't deserve it.

I've no desire to kill anyone.

I know it's brutal, but victims deserve justice and vengeance in my view.

I don't think vengeance has ever made anyone happy. If Mick Philpott was born evil, then he's every bit as to blame for his condition as someone born without legs. If he was made evil  by his experiences of life, then it's not his fault. We gain nothing by vengeance.

Vengeance isn't about being happy, it's just exacting some measure of retribution.

Indeed, it only creates misery and pain.

There is already misery and pain, the murderer caused that, vengeance doesn't create it in my opinion.

And these ridiculously short sentences just make matters worse, of course.  A friend of mine was murdered by her boyfriend and he receved a sentence of four years, of which he served just two!

It beggars belief that, doesn't it.

His defence successfully argued for manslaughter under diminished responsibility.

Which was a crock of shít, he was just an evil **** who got away with it.

I'm all for reinstating the death penalty if the crime warrants it. It's fairy easy to implement as well.  All you do is change the ruling from 'Guilty beyond all reasonable doubt' to 'Guilty beyond all shadow of doubt' and that's you sorted.  If there is no doubt whatsoever of guilt then you get get the death penalty if there is even the merest hint of doubt then you get life.

Early releases are just an insult to the victims and their families. What kind of a deterrent is this? No wonder there are instances of these bastards looking smug when sentencing is passed. Being hooked up to the national grid instead would soon wipe the grin away. I'm genuinely surprised there aren't a lot more reported instances of vigilante justice. Those that bleat on about Human Rights of offenders should sign some sort of declaration that there is no liability if things go wrong, and then go and spend their holidays sharing a cell with those whose cause they are prepared to champion.

State sponsored murder - no.

If we want vengeance then its up to us to carry it out and for us to live with the consequences.

The need for vengeance due to the frustration of being failed by the leniency of a sentence. Brilliant. Exasperation will lead to a more severe punishment for an understandable act of revenge than what brought it on.

"Let he who sets out on the path of vengeance, first dig two graves."

Confucious got a lot right in my view and he has a point here, vengeance can only denigrate it's pursuer. However, I believe what we're discussing here is 'justice'. In which case, I'm up it.

Justice indeed. The trouble is that old chestnut can come back and royally bite you on the arse. Just ask Tony Martin.

Cmon HRH, do you seriously trust our justice system with the death penalty?  A verdict delivered via corrupt cops,out of touch judges and a jury that will probably be drug-addled, p**s-soaked and posting the case details on facebook anyway? I wouldnt trust them with a parking fine case let alone someones life..

Another three cases this week fully deserving of the death penalty. 

Adebowale, Adebolajo and Bridger.  A total waste of time and money keeping these **** in prison for the rest of their worthless lives.  And an injustice, too, in my view.

The judicial system(not just the bnet coppers)is so wholly corrupt in this country it couldnt possibly support a death sentence,unfortunately.

have agree with patrick there. don't trust the police an inch. plenty of cases of people fitted up for murder on flimsy or fabricated evidence

also how can any goverment say thou shalt not kill but it's alright for us to kill our own citizens ?

life should mean life though unless there are phenomenally good reasons for mitigation. none of this out in 15 years nonsense

For those for which there is no doubt, like the machete scumb@g, I could only support the death penalty after a seriously prolonged period of torture.

it is 48 years, 9 months and 18 days since the last executions in the UK

no
and I disagree with you there Stow
life without parole is a pretty savage punishment
and then only for the worse
Mark Bridger deserved it

imo the punishment should significantly outweigh the worst crimes and be a proper deterrent

where do you stop Stow
bring back public hanging, hanging, drawing and quartering

what happens if we execute the wrong person... cannot bring them brack

I think life without parole is a reasonable deterrent
plus it contains an element of retribution which is needed for victim/and or family
and for this
it would be child killers
police killers
a serial killer
or any murder which involves a significant amount of sadism(torture)

I am disagreeing in a friendly way
just my own opinion

I am a right know all on here Stow

The greyhound forum died years ago
I am afraid it died with the Stow
and I hope BA and Apache don't read my political posts
an opinion nothing personal..
I liked their posts and banter with them in the old days

William Billingham, another perfect candidate for the death penalty.

The man who killed his ex wife and his grown up daughter. And it was in cold blood as he knew where they would be.

An Endless List ,unfortunately our Luvvie Chums would be up in arms .

the stabbers all over the place certainly believe in death

. Passenger Bunmi Ogunleye wrote: 'We were all terrified! The guy who got stabbed was running until he collapsed.

Not terror related , first statement made ....................... must be another mentally ill Islamist

actually think death is too good for some of these scumbags.

I'd prefer eternal torture - and if they die during torture, make sure its very slow and drawn out.

state executions are in my view immoral and in countries where they have the death penalty, like for example the united states or saudi arabia, or china which have more state executions than any other countries put together, it is in some way an indication of a fascist state.

read a very interesting book recently by john grisham called an innocent man (thoroughly recommended) about, strangely enough an innocent man who ended up on death row. in many cases those put on death row had low intelligence and were sentenced on very poor evidence. plus the whole mechanism of the state executing someone is a depressing one. the way everything is carefully arranged to end someone's life. obviously a lot of those who are killed are reprehensible individuals themselves, but in my view the state should not reduce itself to the role of the executioner, because down that path leads to fascism and the reduction of justice.

yep i'm all for life meaning life unless there's a very good reason. none of this 15 years nonsense but dunno how any state can in all conscience can say you must not kill then have state sanctioned murder

leaving that aside how could anyone trust the police or justice system to get it right ? numerous instances of fit ups and plainly wrong verdicts

a lot of sentencing is limited because of the cost to the state. if you lock every murderer up for the duration of their life it would bankrupt the government in this country.

in America they hand out draconian sentences but presumably have a much bigger relative budget for prisons, and as i said before the US are leaning towards fascism these days anyway.

it is in some way an indication of a fascist state.

We had it up until 1965, would you have called the UK a fascist state? I'm sure the answer will be no.

If no capital punishment then anyone convicted of a crime that would have seen them executed should never be let free.
I'd also like to see the prisons toughened up with only the basics given and anything else needing to be earned through good behaviour.
ie you get a bed, 3 meals, exercise and have to earn visiting rights, access to reading matter and access to a recreational area.

Mafe there are Certain Cases with DNA and Other evidence No mistake can be Made , Instead of Spending Billions housing these animals ,Get Rid ..

Chemical castration should very definitely be added to the list of acceptable methods of punishment available for certain crimes.

Prisoner being escorted across the prison yard to his place of execution. It was snowing heavily and the prisoner nervously said to the prison officer, "nasty day for it."

The prison officer said" it's alright for you, I've got to walk back in this".

We cannot have the death penalty in Britain because we can’t trust the British people to come to the right decision it’s as simple as that

Murder the murderers???....no no no no no.

Since hanging was abolished in the mid 60's over 100 people have been murdered by convicted murderers who were let out from prison after serving their sentences.

That's 100+ people who may possibly have lived long and happy lives had their killers been subject to capital punishment for their earlier crime!

100+ truly innocent people sacrificed to make our liberal elite feel better about themselves.

That's a horrifying statistic

Never looked at it that way TGV... it raised an eyebrow with me

How many innocent people died?..if the answer is one or more then it's way wrong.

Plenty of people have had convictions quashed from DNA evidence completed years after the initial trial. Who knows what evidence might be used to exonerate guilty people in the next 20 years?

You also need to factor in the effect this would have on pleas - if people pleading guilty to murder were to lose their lives, they might think twice about taking their punishment and have a go at a not guilty plea - juries would be far more reluctant to find defendants guilty if the decision led to loss of life as this would hamper the appeal process somewhat - ultimately more guilty people would walk free if we had the death penalty

like to see the accused have the option of death

Have you considered that the death penalty might also be a deterrent FatherMaguire?

I'm not sure that more people would walk free if the evidence (especially in the DNA era) was overwhelming. They will walk free anyway if inconclusive