THATCHER THE END IS NEAR

fair defence of Thatcher

yes she killed socialism stone dead..of course that is why I dislike her

Difficult to like but strongest leader the Tories (and probably the country) has had for bleedin' ages.

But ask yourself why and how she killed it? Socialism is okay if you live in a dream world but in the real world it doesn't work and after trying it for 30 years post war it had been shown beyond question not to work. They called us the sick man of Europe. Her speech from St Francis Of Assisi wouldn't have struck a chord if it hadn't been true. Socialists attempt to portray her as ripping up a thriving country but her statement about where there is discord was an understatement because discord was all around in 1979. So by the early 80's the socialists decided that what we needed was more socialism. Even Einstein would have laughed at that one.

Socialism is okay if you live in a dream world
well...yes I probably do

and yes the unions did need to be controlled better...I accept that
...but society seems so divisive now, maybe its just I am getting old....hmmm

I'd rate her about average. She did kill some things that really, really needed to be killed, but went far to far and lacked compassion. Blair's double to be honest.

Joined:
28 Jun 10
| Topic/replies: 15,388 | Blogger: Eeternaloptimist's blog
But ask yourself why and how she killed it? Socialism is okay if you live in a dream world but in the real world it doesn't work and after trying it for 30 years post war it had been shown beyond question not to work. They called us the sick man of Europe. Her speech from St Francis Of Assisi wouldn't have struck a chord if it hadn't been true. Socialists attempt to portray her as ripping up a thriving country but her statement about where there is discord was an understatement because discord was all around in 1979. So by the early 80's the socialists decided that what we needed was more socialism. Even Einstein would have laughed at that one.


union leaders became more militant, i call it the Lech Wałęsa era, as they thought they to were more powerful combined than any government, Wałęsa struggle in poland and its world-wide union support, made uk unionism a threat to the stability of your country, poorly educated militant dick-heads, and they literally needed their heads kicked  in, and the miners and print unions, got just that.

The Maggie hating idealists seem to be unaware that the trade unions, while masquerading as trying to help the workers were in fact trying to bring the country to its knees by means of continual industrial unrest and unrealistic demands. It was easy for the extreme left and communists to gain control of the unions by simply ensuring that all the extremists attended the meetings and particularly the AGM when the officials were voted in. Once in power it was ridiculously easy to bring the workers out on strike over continual petty issues.
With hindsight Maggie made plenty of mistakes but that is the nature of politics and economics where the repurcussions invariably bounce on into unexpected teretories.

She was pure evil..as was her chum General Galtierri.How any sane person can think she was great is
beyond my comprehension..mad as a box of frogs.

Galtieri?
One can only presume you mean Pinochet.

Easy to knock Maggie but where would the coal and print industries and the associated communities be now if she had not been in power?

yes indeed Pinochet...too much grog last night

invariably, when a union rep was interviewed on tv, out of his mouth would come a load of none compromising hogwash, and 9 times out of 10 the hogwash would be in a scouse accent.

Easy to knock Maggie but where would the coal and print industries and the associated communities be now if she had not been in power?

Probably suffered the same fate as the British motor cycle, car and other manufacturing industries.  Everything changes and moves on. Nothing stays the same whether or not we like it,but of course it's nice to able to blame someone else for the changes we don't like.

You might also ask where the UK be now if the unions had continued to call the tune.

The Unions are needed to ensure a balance, to avoid unscrupulous employers abusing the workforce. Since Maggie's TU reform the discrepancy between the lowest and highest paid workers has grown exponentially, Executive pay is a disgrace, with massive percentage increases even when failing to deliver, but of course it's the low paid workers who are the problem wanting holiday pay, sick pay, pensions etc. How greedy of them wanting similar entitlements to those that the pampered Executive takes for granted.

bix • December 23, 2012 12:13 PM GMT

You might also ask where the UK be now if the unions had continued to call the tune.

So where exactly is the UK now?

utter boll0cks.

contracts of employment means both employee and employer, get what it says on the tin, dont like the companies terms, then dont take the job, simple.

reply to big issue

Britain's longest serving Prime Minister
says something about her standing with the British public .

think it says more about the other lot

bix • December 23, 2012 12:13 PM GMT

You might also ask where the UK be now if the unions had continued to call the tune.

So where exactly is the UK now?

------------------
Not under Communist Russia for starters !!

Manxy, it would appear that you truly are a buffoon of the highest order.

Why then do you think that Employment Tribunals are bursting at the seams. Employers constantly pay a flagrant disregard to so called Contracts of Employment some of which literally aren't worth the paper they are written on. Hence the redress via the Courts. You fail to address my Executive pay issue as well I notice. I guess you probably think all the tax avoidance schemes these Exec's and their accountants have come up with are fair as well?

My guess is you are probably one of the lucky ones, received a decent education and had/have a decent job. Millions in this country aren't so lucky and have to take work where they can and to think that they can unravel the legal niceties of a Contract of Employment is simply not realistic. All most want is a decent day's pay for their labours and similar terms and conditions across the workforce.

all 'they' want, fcuk em, let 'them' go out in their early 20s and biulda business, let their families sacrifice holidays and extras, let 'them' morgage 'them' selves to the hilt, on a gamble that the business 'they' biuld will last long enough to pay off the debt, so 'they' after a decade or so can finally sleep at night, otherwise, accept someone else did, so you take what he offers, or someone else will.

A lot of anger there it seems Manxy, perhaps a spot of therapy might be required?

I applaud your entrepreneurial effort and wish you well, but any successful business will engage with it's workforce and have fair terms and conditions if it is to succeed, this is fact not hocus pocus. A company or a firm with a disengaged workforce simply won't last long in this day and age. Whilst you may have built the company (and will hopefully be rewarded for such) the fact is that the workforce is the company. A low paid, lowly motivated workforce simply won't deliver the goods EVER no matter what sticks you use to beat them with.

Good luck and Happy Christmas.

alot of hate and unhappiness from Thatchers supporters on this thread

fair terms and conditions


skill sets that are in demand will the employee the negotiating high-ground.


you have personally little prospect of ever progressing in this world son, you have the attitude of someone who thinks the world owes you something for nothing, if you do not like a employers terms, then go out and become the employer, either just yourself or of others, then see how you feel about it.

you ofcourse will do neither, either retrain to an 'in demand' trade, or set up your own business, and why because it takes a determined mind-set, its much easier to stick you hand out on a friday for a pay packet thats never going to satisfy you, but you can whine about how unfair life is for 40 years whilst doing so.

if YOU want a better 'lot' in life, then only YOU can go out and 'TAKE IT' for yourself, no fcukers just going to hand you it.

This country should base itself on Germany, why are they successful and we are not

Union representation at board level

http://www.worker-participation.eu/National-Industrial-Relations/Countries/G...

Now what makes me think Big Issue has never actually employed anyone?

Because he seems to care about employees rights?

Skills Sets?

A company cannot live by these alone. You need to look at Behaviours as well.

Some of the worst employees I ever met were the mostly high qualified in their field. But they weren't engaged by the company or bought into (or even told) the company's ethos, so over time became troublesome pedants rather than productive useful employees. Yes, they were discplined and even dismissed on occasions but this again was all 'negativity' around the company.

Bix, this is true but I did advise those that did, big employers too.

Many of the problems I helped with as much down to poor management and even worse communication as much as anything else, this from an Executive Level downwards. Failure to engage the workforce was I would say the singular biggest fault of all.

It's amazing if you actually ask employees what they want from their Employer, you'd be surprised at their answers. Why not try it?

big issue, what do you do for a living, and what would you like to do for a living, selling, grafting, managing, etc.

Manxy, I had many roles before taking Voluntary Redundancy approx 2 years ago. I starting in payroll and went via Management Services (the old time and motion) through to HR Consultant.

I like to think I was exposed to all levels of employee and management from Cleaner to Chief Executive and Board level. 

At the moment, I play around on here to make a small living. What would I like to do? This is something I haven't been able to find the answer to if I am honest. I am not a seller or a grafter, I think I have had my fill of management, any suggestions?

selling, but you dont like it.


selling for me brought a sense of satisfaction.


the opportunities and product range is limitless, i mean you can buy a star if you want one, i would rather sell you one, pick one, i will sort the paper work.

I maybe in the gutter, but I am looking at the Stars, and one of them is mine!

opportunity.

example...

holidaying in toronto, at the peak of the  carnage in england and europe, huge pallet pyres of slaughtered cattle.


shopping with wife, wanted a new eather jacket, got a great one for 300 dollars, got talking with the guy in the shop, as i knew the jacket would of cost 400 pounds here on the island, i did  a deal with him there and then to import 400 in 12 months time, even with the 2 taxes, i knew i would double my money minimum, selling wholesale to retailers here, and more likely treble my money with the leather shortage a year down the line, the carnage in europe would cause.

motive profit, and i knew oneway or another the cst of the holiday ws never going to be dead money, i also bought 5ks worth of fleeces, pure quality canadian fleece, those boys know how to stay warm.

and the lack of response, perfectly demonstrates what i said, 'mind set', whats to stop you going to morocco or similar, cheap as chips, you will not buy leather goods cheaper anywhere in the world, just go on holiday, bring back or post yourself 20 or 30 samples, then go around the types of independents that sell similar, shops/markets/booters etc, take orders, go back several times, do the business face to face, forget the expense, just dothe buying face to face, same as the selling, ship in small amounts, avoid local taxes, but expect some minor losses, you will get a real buzz shifting gear youve paid pennies for at source, at wholesale prices, all cash, no vat, snap your hand off, the black market is both the old and new 'black', why let someone else dictate a third of your life.

is tax avoidance Thatcherism too?

no its a well known manx cultural mind set, after-all we are al decendents of smugglers.

a large amount of british conglomerates are situated here for 'tax' reasons, see we sell em a cheaper place to do business from, dont forget t is Her Majesty's Customs and Exise   we are self governing, no manxy likes being taxed by a foreign government, and ofcurse we will go to efforts to avoid it.

Manxy - Smuggling to "avoid local taxes" is hardly a new idea.

Why stop there - plenty of profit to be made from bank robbery.

feck it, let me blow his brains out & nick his bulging wallet (well' they used to do that too)

Dec 23, 2012 -- 3:43PM, Lee Ho Fooks wrote:

feck it, let me blow his brains out & nick his bulging wallet (well' they used to do that too)

they call it taxing the rich

i see, bit complicated for yall, well if you like travelling, go abroad to cheap as chips countries, shake a few hands, come back as their man in the middle rep, look when i opened my first shop, it was clearance sports and liesure-ware,i was 24, i knew what stock others in the street were selling and at what price, i didnt buy unless i could beat them hands down pricewise, when they were selling gear that i could get, but could not achieve my margin on, went up the back lanes with a pen and note book, and took the names and addresses of the empty boxes out the back of their shops, ya gotta be keen, no fcukers gonna hand it to you on a plate.

brendanuk1
http://www.worker-participation.eu/National-Industrial-Relations/Countries/Germany/Board-level-Representation

good idea brendank1 keep everybody on he same side

It seems manxy is a successful businessman..well done for that

as much damage as the unions did do to us in the 1970s..
it pales into insignifance to what the bankers did to us in 2008
in fact they broke the world economy..except for that we would probably be doing ok now
there would be no talk of public debt, cutting benefits laying people off, would there

Its loss of hope is our biggest problem now...this is far worse than anything I have known
Of course the welfare budget has to be cut..but when we cant offer our youngsters a future..what can anyone expect
There is of course no excuse for the rich not paying their taxes either individually or corporations
if they dont do that..not much in having them is there

point

exactly no point, so get off ya collective azzes, and beat them at what they are not good at.


england 'used' tobe known as a land of shopkeepers, those were the days of the one man bank, bakers grocers candlestick makers, 'get it' find a niche and go for it.

i would rather sell sandwiches out of a van, or set my garage up as a private laundrette and take in laundrie before i would sit around skint.

is she gone yet

no and dont start a thread about her on chit chat again

Now it's a land of Big stores which squeeze shopkeepers out of business.

hopefully wont be long now, champagne on ice

can't afford champagne, pomagne anyone?

I know a guy who sells black market Champagne, from morocco, bargain

Cameron,Osborne,Gove,Pickles & Co. make Thatcher look like Mary Poppins!

STUDYFORM     23 Dec 12 19:22 
Now it's a land of Big stores which squeeze shopkeepers out of business.



Never a truer word spoken

The shopkeepers who've been squeezed out of business should just nip over to a country where they sell stuff cheap as chips, shake a few hands & come back over here as a man in the middle rep - simples. Come to think about it, how did they ever get squeezed out of business in the first place with this knowledge?

smuggling, counterfeit goods and avoiding tax. i think i will buy a frigate on ebay and become a pirate.

FFS don't buy the frigate from Mark Thatcher

pumphol.
23 Dec 12 21:15
Joined:
29 Jul 04
| Topic/replies: 24,516 | Blogger: pumphol.'s blog
STUDYFORM     23 Dec 12 19:22
Now it's a land of Big stores which squeeze shopkeepers out of business.



Never a truer word spoken



indeed, they squeezed me out of retail in the early 90s recession, but they wouldnt have if it was now, i mean i was abit green, altho very keen, and they squeezed me out of being shop based, which at the time hurt, but as things picked up, i made good middleman money.

all this ofcourse was before the internet, and we had an 80k population, and unless they got a 7.5 hour return ferry crossing to shop on the mainland, it was shooting fish in a barrel, now we have em all here from burtons to pc world to tesco to 2 or 3 big pizza players.


face to face retailing is a very sick dying duck, 'unless' people think they are getting 'a deal'

The last time i voted was for Thatcher, there hasnt been anyone worth voting for since!
In the 70s Britain had become the laughing stock of the world (if you think its bad now its not a patch on the 70s)
Thatcher bought the UK kicking and screaming into the 20th century and created an enviroment where the average guy could make a few quid for themselves.

very-valuable...did you get releleased from Broadmoor recently?

Privatisation was the best thing to happen to the Uk, ask anyone who can remember when the telephone service was run by the GPO, you had to wait 6 months for a line to be installed and if it suited them they would only install a party line which was shared wuith someone else. Absolute shambles!

here here vv.

mitterand said in his auto-bioghraphy, that when he and thatcher met over the falklands after the sheffield was destroyed by a french made and sold exocet, that she looked him straight in the eye and said 'if you do not hand over the dis-arming codes for the remaining excets, i will nuke paris' and stared him out, the french gave britain the codes, after refusing to, right up to their meeting.


the  woman had more balls than a new labour party conference.

George Bush Snr in a race with Maggie to meet their makers.

Both on last legs, spending chrimbo in Hospital.

btw Mancky it was Buenos Aires she threatened to nuke not Paris... close.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2005/nov/22/books.france

Margaret Thatcher forced François Mitterrand to give her the codes to disable Argentina's deadly French-made missiles during the Falklands war by threatening to launch a nuclear warhead against Buenos Aires, according to a book.

Rendez-vous - the psychoanalysis of François Mitterrand, by Ali Magoudi, who met the late French president up to twice a week in secrecy at his Paris practice from 1982 to 1984, also reveals that Mr Mitterrand believed he would get his "revenge" by building a tunnel under the Channel which would forever destroy Britain's island status.

The book, to be published on Friday, is one of several on France's first Socialist president to mark the 10th anniversary of his death on January 8 1996. Despite a now tarnished reputation, he remains a source of fascination for the French in general and the left in particular. Rendez-vous provides revealing insights into the man's mysterious character, complicated past, paranoia and power complex, but nothing as titillating as his remarks on the former British prime minister.

"Excuse me. I had a difference to settle with the Iron Lady. That Thatcher, what an impossible woman!" the president said as he arrived, more than 45 minutes late, on May 7 1982. "With her four nuclear submarines in the south Atlantic, she's threatening to unleash an atomic weapon against Argentina if I don't provide her with the secret codes that will make the missiles we sold the Argentinians deaf and blind."

As was posted on Twitter this week;

I'm really glad that Thatcher survived her operation and is doing well.
Do you realise how hard it is to set off fireworks in this weather?

that would really rile the thatcher fans, setting off fireworks during live coverage on new 24

Barzalona
I know i've had a bit to drink but can't understand how a book published this week marks the 10th anniversary of his death if he died in 1996 .

Posy - if you look at the link, it's got the date '2005' in it - fooled me for a while too, and I'm stone cold sober

thank you Dexter thought there would be an explanation

The GREATEST leader the Western World has EVER known imho

DJQ - naming yourself after someone so selfish and corrupt - albeit fictional though based on genuine people - your lauding of the witch kind of shows up the kind of people that do admire her.

Party in Trafalgar Sqaure the Saturday after she does pop her cloven hoofs. And you know what, I cannot wait.
I've never celebrated anyone's death, but will start with her. (Ps Phil Collins is still alive isn't he?)
And for those saying she's an old woman etc, I'd rather thing of the people she killed with her policies and the destruction of communities she caused - they deserve the sympathy, not her.

REJOICE AT THAT NEWS!!!....As world war 2 floating wreck the Belgrano is blown out of the water miles outside the
exclusion zone..i find it hard to find any pity for the evil witch.

Maggie took a strong hand on our problems, she neer solved them but gave a message to the enemy that they could not win.

While I didn't like the Anglo Irish Agreement it was a partial solution tat has led to peace.

I think Maggie was a great leader btw.

DJQ - naming yourself after someone so selfish and corrupt - albeit fictional though based on genuine people - your lauding of the witch kind of shows up the kind of people that do admire her.




PMSL ROFL

I think Thatcher (and Mandela) will be gone by the end of the year. 2 of the worst leaders of all time imo. Still, I wouldn't wish death on anyone so hope I am wrong.

^ 100% spot on imho

yeah, great, cubanpete, name just about says it all, ffs.

Privatisation was the very WORST thing that happened to this country.
The reason the GPO improved was new technology (which was held back for privatisation btw), it had nothing to do with selling it off.
What selling eveything off did, was increase bills - just think of what proportion of income is now bills compared with pre-Thatcher, cause massive cuts in service, cost millions of jobs.

And it was all her fault.

I've only ever actually met one Thatcherite who wasn't a complete tw@t.
He is very wealthy, so I can sort of understand it, the rest have poor memories or have been seriously mis-informed.

manxy 25 Dec 12 18:44 
yeah, great, cubanpete, name just about says it all, ffs.

I take it no one gave you a bottle of maturity or intellect today?

"George Bush Snr in a race with Maggie to meet their makers.

Both on last legs, spending chrimbo in Hospital."

I suspect Chavez and Catro will beat them to it

Castro

WITCH nasty piece of work, i shall be rejoicing

Thatcher best ever PM


Name me a better one in the last 100 years???

Atlee a close second. No one else at the races.

Sir Winston thanks you from his grave.

secret files released today shows the love jimmy saville had for thatcher,seems he had regular communications with thatcher

understandable savile liked the tory ethos, as he appreciated the hands-off approach from authorities for his hands-on activities.

Never liked the woman, but read today somewhere that she had insisted that she pay the cost of finding Mark when he was was lost in the desert and not through expenses - fair play to her. Just wish some of the current politicians would play as fairly (Dennis Skinner excepted). I'm sure I could find ways of dismissing her gesture if I tried but life's too short.

Yes LHF, the files released today reveal that she paid towards her son's rescue, but it was because Ingham advised it to avoid the bad PR if the taxpayer picked up the tab.
The files also reveal that Thatcher was more in favour of abolishing the NHS than she subsequently claimed. Thats why the Tories have had to repeatedly claim the NHS is safe in their hands ever since, and why still nobody really believes them.
To choose BT as an example of a successful privatisation and justifcation for the concept is overly selective, imo. What about Gas, Electric and British Rail? All shafting the British public now and often foreign owned. Yeh, great idea

yep, those power cuts in the 1970s were great, loved getting the candles out.

mark lost in the desert,hmmmmmmmmmmmmm , i wonder.

good old maggie, said sod off ronnie and sorted out the argies

see they put the film on last night the end is near

was expecting a good film but didn't like it much

i'm getting fed up waiting

I think she is

I think she was right on a lot of things....but lost the plot as time went on.   The power thing kicked in - like celebrities when the fame kicks in.  They can't handle it and take liberties.

still to get ready to celebrate a death dont sit easy with me

me neither howdi..this is the only ever time in my 50 odd years on the planet i have felt like this
i do feel guilty but also cannot forget how evil this cow was/is.

It's thanks to Maggie that the likes of SDK could buy their council houses. So she's not all bad.