Chit Chat
There is currently 1 person viewing this thread.
A lot of scientists say life started on earth when we had the right mix of primeordial soup, water carbon etc etc ec and life just sprung up. However it isnt quite as simple as that.
Even the very basic forms of life needs DNA, we cannot create life in the lab using just the mix of elements. However it can be done as soon as DNA from other oranisims is put into the mix.
So the question is where does DNA come from, how is it created?
We do not know how DNA molecules first appeared. The chances against a DNA molecule arising by random fluctuations are very small. Some people have therefore suggested that life came to Earth from elsewhere, and that there are seeds of life floating round in the galaxy. However, it seems unlikely that DNA could survive for long in the radiation in space. And even if it could, it would not really help explain the origin of life, because the time available since the formation of carbon is only just over double the age of the Earth.
Stephen Hawkings has an idea on it though:
"The early appearance of life on Earth suggests that there's a good chance of the spontaneous generation of life, in suitable conditions. Maybe there was some simpler form of organisation, which built up DNA. Once DNA appeared, it would have been so successful, that it might have completely replaced the earlier forms. We don't know what these earlier forms would have been. One possibility is RNA. This is like DNA, but rather simpler, and without the double helix structure. Short lengths of RNA, could reproduce themselves like DNA, and might eventually build up to DNA. One can not make nucleic acids in the laboratory, from non-living material, let alone RNA. But given 500 million years, and oceans covering most of the Earth, there might be a reasonable probability of RNA, being made by chance. "
If ifs and ans where pots and pans spring to mind. There is absolutely no science in his statement there.
We do know that DNA is extremley complicated,
Wikipedia says "the main role of DNA molecules is the long-term storage of information. DNA is often compared to a set of blueprints or a recipe, or a code, since it contains the instructions needed to construct other components of cells, such as proteins and RNA molecules". This comparison is very accurate, that is exactly what DNA is, information and information storage.
It is important to understand that, with more than one billion molecules and 1/3 (333+ million) of those being the programming molecules, there are more than 122.9637 x 10 to the 32nd power (sorry, I don't have super script on this software) possible different combinations in just one chromosome. That is 1,229,637 with 28 zeros behind it. Now multiply that times the 46 chromosomes you have in every cell in your body. It is easy to see how complex this can get.
Just one teaspoon of DNA could hold all the precise assembly instructions for all of the proteins for every one, of the one thousand million species of animals that have ever existed on the planet, and still have information left over for all of the information in every book ever written. All held in just one teaspoon of DNA.
Why would something randomly create itself which is basically an extremly complicated information storer?
How could random forces produce something as complex as a single cell with its DNA, let alone a human?
More understanding of DNA, its formation, the way it mutates, how it can survive etc etc is needed to make any judgement on life elsewhere.
Even the very basic forms of life needs DNA, we cannot create life in the lab using just the mix of elements. However it can be done as soon as DNA from other oranisims is put into the mix.
So the question is where does DNA come from, how is it created?
We do not know how DNA molecules first appeared. The chances against a DNA molecule arising by random fluctuations are very small. Some people have therefore suggested that life came to Earth from elsewhere, and that there are seeds of life floating round in the galaxy. However, it seems unlikely that DNA could survive for long in the radiation in space. And even if it could, it would not really help explain the origin of life, because the time available since the formation of carbon is only just over double the age of the Earth.
Stephen Hawkings has an idea on it though:
"The early appearance of life on Earth suggests that there's a good chance of the spontaneous generation of life, in suitable conditions. Maybe there was some simpler form of organisation, which built up DNA. Once DNA appeared, it would have been so successful, that it might have completely replaced the earlier forms. We don't know what these earlier forms would have been. One possibility is RNA. This is like DNA, but rather simpler, and without the double helix structure. Short lengths of RNA, could reproduce themselves like DNA, and might eventually build up to DNA. One can not make nucleic acids in the laboratory, from non-living material, let alone RNA. But given 500 million years, and oceans covering most of the Earth, there might be a reasonable probability of RNA, being made by chance. "
If ifs and ans where pots and pans spring to mind. There is absolutely no science in his statement there.
We do know that DNA is extremley complicated,
Wikipedia says "the main role of DNA molecules is the long-term storage of information. DNA is often compared to a set of blueprints or a recipe, or a code, since it contains the instructions needed to construct other components of cells, such as proteins and RNA molecules". This comparison is very accurate, that is exactly what DNA is, information and information storage.
It is important to understand that, with more than one billion molecules and 1/3 (333+ million) of those being the programming molecules, there are more than 122.9637 x 10 to the 32nd power (sorry, I don't have super script on this software) possible different combinations in just one chromosome. That is 1,229,637 with 28 zeros behind it. Now multiply that times the 46 chromosomes you have in every cell in your body. It is easy to see how complex this can get.
Just one teaspoon of DNA could hold all the precise assembly instructions for all of the proteins for every one, of the one thousand million species of animals that have ever existed on the planet, and still have information left over for all of the information in every book ever written. All held in just one teaspoon of DNA.
Why would something randomly create itself which is basically an extremly complicated information storer?
How could random forces produce something as complex as a single cell with its DNA, let alone a human?
More understanding of DNA, its formation, the way it mutates, how it can survive etc etc is needed to make any judgement on life elsewhere.
sort by:
Show
per page
Replies: 79
|
By:
I dunno
|
|
By:
Why would something randomly create itself which is basically an extremly complicated information storer?
You should google the anthropic principle. |
|
By:
The anthropic principle explains nothing. How can a rational universe come from a irrational ,random event?the big bang.
|
|
By:
^ It's called evolution. Science explains it pretty well. Not as well as the 'bearded bloke who has existed for all eternity and decided to have a play 6,000 years ago' theory, but pretty well nonetheless.
|
|
By:
evolution doesnt explain dna, its complexities, where it comes from. they say it just appeaered. but we carn make it just appear.
also i dna needs protein, and protien needs dna, so did they both just matereliase at the same time? dont understand that one. |
|
By:
evolution has nothing to do with the big bang.Your ignorance is astounding.
|
|
By:
intelligent life you ask.
certainly the people at nasa and these astronaughts from sts 29 do. quote. ive always like this trans-mission from discovery when they thought they were on a secure downlink. they were cut off pretty quick, but not before they rather let the cat out of the bag. see the statement reveals 2 things, firstly that it was part of an ongong conversation from an earlier conversation and secondly they still thought they were still on the encryted downlink on sts 29. houston this is discovery we still have the alien spacecraft under observance. quite a bold statement. which has kept ufologists in hay for some years. me i just like it. just google |
|
By:
houston this is discovery we still have the alien spacecraft under observance.
theres just no room for mis-interpretation in that statement to his ground crew, and desk jockeys at mission control. |
|
By:
Earth calling the ISLE OF MAN, where are you please????
|
|
By:
If 'aliens' planted the seeds of life on this planet, can you please explain how was life created on their own planet? Same problems (the 'invention' on DNA), different universe.
|
|
By:
Clearly I meant galaxy not universe
 bang goes the PHD. |
|
By:
houston this is discovery we still have the alien spacecraft under observance.
http://www.ufoseek.org/nasaufo.htm |
|
By:
"Your ignorance is astounding."
Says someone who, in the face of every piece of scientific evidence, believes in an omnipresent being for whom the only 'evidence' is '...because of various writings/rock carvings/images found on a piece of toast'. Everyone of which being the work of just another man. Religion is an abomination, a bunch of ridiculous idealisms and untruths spouted at the gullible populations since an evolved ape first learned how to wipe his own bum. It has been used to justify the most appalling infliction of misery, and even to this day sperates nations and neighbours in bloody battle. There is not one single scrap of scientific evidence anywhere to support any belief in a higher being. All there is is thousands of years of suffering brought about because gullible idiot 'A' wanted to convert or punish gullible idiot 'B'. So don't call me ignorant because I happen to disagree with you, especially as you are wrong. And yes, you are as wrong as the other 95% of the Earth's population. The same population that once believe the world was flat and balanced on the back of a few tortoises. |
|
By:
I_got_12_points_again Joined: 08 Mar 11
Replies: 32 08 Mar 11 20:49 Earth calling the ISLE OF MAN, where are you please???? you mean you think the astronaught was just joking or what. NASA had already admitted the transmission was real. The original recording was made in 1989 by Donald Ratsch, an American amateur radio operator and member of a radio club that monitored and recorded NASA transmissions as a hobby. Many people heard the recording The person who is speaking is either Coats or Blaha but 17 years later there is no way to tell from the information at hand. The reversals show the man is controlling the shuttle's orientation at the time of the transmission. However, both men are qualified to pilot the shuttle. Coats was the pilot on Discovery's maiden flight in 1984. Perhaps someone can answer this question from material compiled at the time. Both men continued with fine careers so the incident, perhaps coupled with their willingness to keep their mouths shut, was apparently beneficial. Michael Coats commanded another mission in 1991, then left the program to become a vice president at Loral Space Information Systems. In 1996 he moved to Lockheed Martin, also at the VP level, where he remained for nine years. Ten months ago (November 2005) he returned to NASA as the Director of the Johnson Space Center just south of Houston. John Blaha, the pilot, was also the pilot on Discovery's next mission (STS-33) which put secret military hardware in orbit eight months later. In 1991 he was Commander for Atlantis mission STS-43, and then commanded Columbia's STS-58 mission in 1993. In September 1996 he rode Atlantis to the Mir space station where he served as crew for four months, returning on Columbia, capping off a truly remarkable career. Other crew members, who of course would be completely familiar with the encounter and surely had their noses pressed against the windows, would be the mission specialists, James F. Buchli, Robert C. Springer and John P. Bagian. i find it very interesting that every time someone catches a transmission that nasa had no intention of the general public hearing they initially go into denial, until they have no choice but to admit the truth. do the recordings sound like a joke to you. and dont forget it is a follow on conversation from an encryted feed, as it says we STILL have the alien spacecraft under observance. i find it hard to accept that there are little green men or bluemen or greymen etc flying around in our orbit. however i have no problem with believing intelligent life exists elsewhere in the cosmos, i also have no problem in believing technology wise they are leaps and bounds ahead of us, and we have had no problems ssending probes into deep space. |
|
By:
pretty interesting what other astronaughts have said after leaving the service.
i dunno what to make of it all really. do nasa employ mainly fantasists or what. http://www.syti.net/UFOSightings.html -------------------------------------------------------------------- ASTRONAUT COMMENTS RE UFOS. I realize some have been cited who have later denied or recanted or some such. Personally, I believe they were most honest when saying something WAS going on. Nobody wants to lose a good pension. Following is a samping from the link. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Major Gordon Cooper One of the original Mercury Astronauts and the last American to fly in space alone. On May 15, 1963 he shot into space in a Mercury capsule for a 22 orbit journey around the world. During the final orbit, Major Gordon Cooper told the tracking station at Muchea (near Perth Australia) that he could see a glowing, greenish object ahead of him quickly approaching his capsule. The UFO was real and solid, because it was picked up by Muchea's tracking radar. Cooper's sighting was reported by the National Broadcast Company, which was covering the flight step by step; but when Cooper landed, reporters were told that they would not be allowed to question him about the UFO sighting. Major Cooper was a firm believer in UFOs. Ten years earlier, in 1951 he had sighted a UFO while piloting an F-86 Sabrejet over Western Germany. They were metallic, saucer-shaped discs at considerable altitude and could out-maneuver all American fighter planes. Major Cooper also testified before the United Nations: "I believe that these extra-terrestrial vehicles and their crews are visiting this planet from other planets... Most astronauts were reluctant to discuss UFOs." "I did have occasion in 1951 to have two days of observation of many flights of them, of different sizes, flying in fighter formation, generally from east to west over Europe." And according to a taped interview by J. L. Ferrando, Major Cooper said: "For many years I have lived with a secret, in a secrecy imposed on all specialists in astronautics. I can now reveal that every day, in the USA, our radar instruments capture objects of form and composition unknown to us. And there are thousands of witness reports and a quantity of documents to prove this, but nobody wants to make them public. Why? Because authority is afraid that people may think of God knows what kind of horrible invaders. So the password still is: We have to avoid panic by all means." "I was furthermore a witness to an extraordinary phenomenon, here on this planet Earth. It happened a few months ago in Florida. There I saw with my own eyes a defined area of ground being consumed by flames, with four indentions left by a flying object which had descended in the middle of a field. Beings had left the craft (there were other traces to prove this). They seemed to have studied topography, they had collected soil samples and, eventually, they returned to where they had come from, disappearing at enormous speed... I happen to know that authority did just about everything to keep this incident from the press and TV, in fear of a panicky reaction from the public." ------------------------------------------ Donald Slayton Donald Slayton a Mercury astronaut revealed in an interview he had seen UFOs in 1951: "I was testing a P-51 fighter in Minneapolis when I spotted this object. I was at about 10,000 feet on a nice, bright, sunny afternoon. I thought the object was a kite, then I realized that no kite is gonna fly that high." As I got closer it looked like a weather balloon, grey and about three feet in diameter. But as soon as I got behind the darn thing it didn't look like a balloon anymore. It looked like a saucer, a disk. About the same time, I realized that it was suddenly going away from me - and there I was, running at about 300 miles per hour. I tracked it for a little way, and then all of a sudden the damn thing just took off. It pulled about a 45 degree climbing turn and accelerated and just flat disappeared." -------------------------------------------- On May 11, 1962 NASA pilot Joseph Walker said that one of his tasks was to detect UFOs during his X-15 flights. He had filmed five or six UFOs during his record breaking fifty-mile-high flight in April, 1962. It was the second time he had filmed UFOs in flight. During a lecture at the Second National Conference on the Peaceful Uses of Space Research in Seattle, Washigton he said: "I don't feel like speculating about them. All I know is what appeared on the film which was developed after the flight." - Joseph Walker To date none of those films has been released to the public for viewing. ------------------------------------------------------------------- Eugene Cernan was commander of Apollo 17. In a Los Angeles Times article in 1973 he said, about UFOs: "...I've been asked (about UFOs) and I've said publicly I thought they (UFOs) were somebody else, some other civilization." ------------------------------------------------------------------ In June 1965, astronauts Ed White (first American to walk in space) and James McDivitt were passing over Hawaii in a Gemini spacecraft when they saw a weird-looking metallic object. The UFO had long arms sticking out of it. McDivitt took pictures with a cine-camera. Those pictures have never been released. ---------------------------------------------------------------- In December 1965, Gemini astronauts James Lovell and Frank Borman also saw a UFO during their second orbit of their record-breaking 14 day flight. Borman reported that he saw an unidentified spacecraft some distance from their capsule. Gemini Control, at Cape Kennedy told him that he was seeing the final stage of their own Titan booster rocket. Borman confirmed that he could see the booster rocket all right, but that he could also see something completely different. During James Lovell's flight on Gemini 7: Lovell: BOGEY AT 10 O'CLOCK HIGH. Capcom: This is Houston. Say again 7. Lovell: SAID WE HAVE A BOGEY AT 10 O'CLOCK HIGH. Capcom: Gemini 7, is that the booster or is that an actual sighting? Lovell: WE HAVE SEVERAL...ACTUAL SIGHTING. Capcom: ...Estimated distance or size? Lovell: WE ALSO HAVE THE BOOSTER IN SIGHT... ---------------------------------------------------------------- According to the NASA Astronaut Neil Armstrong the Aliens have a base on the Moon and told us in no uncertain terms to get off and stay off the Moon. According to un-confirmed reports, both Neil Armstrong and Edwin "Buzz" Aldrin saw UFOs shortly after that historic landing on the Moon in Apollo 11 on 21 July 1969. I remember hearing one of the astronauts refer to a "light" in or on a crater during the television transmission, followed by a request from mission control for further information. Nothing more was heard. According to a former NASA employee Otto Binder, unnamed radio hams with their own VHF receiving facilities that bypassed NASA's broadcasting outlets picked up the following exchange: NASA: Whats there? Mission Control calling Apollo 11... Apollo11: These "Babies" are huge, Sir! Enormous! OH MY GOD! You wouldn't believe it! I'm telling you there are other spacecraft out there, Lined up on the far side of the crater edge! They're on the Moon watching us! A certain professor, who wished to remain anonymous, was engaged in a discussion with Neil Armstrong during a NASA symposium. Professor: What REALLY happened out there with Apollo 11? Armstrong: It was incredible, of course we had always known there was a possibility, the fact is, we were warned off! (by the Aliens). There was never any question then of a space station or a moon city. Professor: How do you mean "warned off"? Armstrong: I can't go into details, except to say that their ships were far superior to ours both in size and technology - Boy, were they big! and menacing! No, there is no question of a space station. Professor: But NASA had other missions after Apollo 11? Armstrong: Naturally - NASA was committed at that time, and couldn't risk panic on Earth. But it really was a quick scoop and back again. ---------------------------------------------------------------- According to a Dr. Vladimir Azhazha: "Neil Armstrong relayed the message to Mission Control that two large, mysterious objects were watching them after having landed near the moon module. But this message was never heard by the public - because NASA censored it." According to a Dr. Aleksandr Kasantsev, Buzz Aldrin took color movie film of the UFOs from inside the module, and continued filming them after he and Armstrong went outside. Armstrong confirmed that the story was true but refused to go into further detail, beyond admitting that the CIA was behind the cover-up. ------------------------------------------------------------------ Maurice Chatelain In 1979 Maurice Chatelain, former chief of NASA Communications Systems confirmed that Armstrong had indeed reported seeing two UFOs on the rim of a crater. Chatelain believes that some UFOs may come from our own solar system, specifically Titan. "The encounter was common knowledge in NASA, but nobody has talked about it until now." "...all Apollo and Gemini flights were followed, both at a distance and sometimes also quite closely, by space vehicles of extraterrestrial origin - flying saucers, or UFOs, if you want to call them by that name. Every time it occurred, the astronauts informed Mission Control, who then ordered absolute silence." "I think that Walter Schirra aboard Mercury 8 was the first of the astronauts to use the code name 'Santa Claus' to indicate the presence of flying saucers next to space capsules. However, his announcements were barely noticed by the general public. It was a little different when James Lovell on board the Apollo 8 command module came out from behind the moon and said for everybody to hear: 'PLEASE BE INFORMED THAT THERE IS A SANTA CLAUS.' Even though this happened on Christmas Day 1968, many people sensed a hidden meaning in those words." The rumors persist. NASA may well be a civilian agency, but many of its programs are funded by the defence budget and most of the astronauts are subject to military security regulations. Apart from the fact that the National Security Agency screens all films and probably radio communications as well. We have the statements by Otto Binder, Dr. Garry Henderson and Maurice Chatelain that the astronauts were under strict orders not to discuss their sightings. And Gordon Cooper has testified to a United Nations committee that one of the astronauts actually witnessed a UFO on the ground. If there is no secrecy, why has this sighting not been made public? Reply With Quote |
|
By:
I will answer your question maleuk01.
Virus which was the first to be created originated from the energy of rocks. Where that energy came from is a mystery, but energy is the answer. |
|
By:
I want to know where the first 'thing' came from. Doesn't matter if this was energy or atoms or magnetism or whatever, just...where did the first THING come from?
|
|
By:
the first and last thig arrived at the same time, where from, who knows, just one big fooking whoosh and there it all was appaarently. hth.
|
|
By:
i dont know why they call it the big bang, cos no fuuker heard it.
|
|
By:
Beethoven heard it, that;s what made him deaf.
|
|
By:
Says someone who, in the face of every piece of scientific evidence, believes in an omnipresent being for whom the only 'evidence' is
There is no scientific evidence that God does not exist, if there is then please present it now. '...because of various writings/rock carvings/images found on a piece of toast'. Everyone of which being the work of just another man. No there is plenty of evidence,I have presented in many times on this forum, you have chosen to ignore it,dismiss it and deny it. Religion is an abomination, a bunch of ridiculous idealisms and untruths spouted at the gullible populations since an evolved ape first learned how to wipe his own bum. another imbecilic assertion for which you have no evidence. It has been used to justify the most appalling infliction of misery, and even to this day sperates nations and neighbours in bloody battle. So has science.Your problem is you lump all religions together and ignore all the good that Christians do in the world. There is not one single scrap of scientific evidence anywhere to support any belief in a higher being. So you only believe in what can be proven scientifically? You don't believe in much then. All there is is thousands of years of suffering brought about because gullible idiot 'A' wanted to convert or punish gullible idiot 'B'. This is not what Jesus taught.if people have perverted his message then that just shows how evil people are. This is what the bible teaches.This again proves the Bible correct So don't call me ignorant because I happen to disagree with you, I called you ignorant because you think evolution has some thing to do with the Big bang, not because you disagree with me. Lots of people disagree with me on here, I don't call them ignorant. especially as you are wrong. Thank you.Thats relative though. And yes, you are as wrong as the other 95% of the Earth's population. The same population that once believe the world was flat and balanced on the back of a few tortoises. Sigh,again you show your ignorance. The myth of the Flat Earth is the modern misconception that the prevailing cosmological view during the Middle Ages saw the Earth as flat, instead of spherical.[1] This idea seems to have been widespread during the first half of the 20th century, so that the Members of the Historical Association in 1945 stated that: "The idea that educated men at the time of Columbus believed that the earth was flat, and that this belief was one of the obstacles to be overcome by Columbus before he could get his project sanctioned, remains one of the hardiest errors in teaching." [2] During the early Middle Ages, virtually all scholars maintained the spherical viewpoint first expressed by the Ancient Greeks. By the 14th century, belief in a flat earth among the educated was essentially dead. Flat-Earth models were in fact held at earlier (pre-Medieval) times, before the spherical model became commonly accepted in Hellenistic astronomy.[3] However, among Medieval artists, depictions of a flat earth remained common.[citation needed] The exterior of the famous triptych The Garden of Earthly Delights by Hieronymus Bosch is a Renaissance example in which a disc-shaped earth is shown floating inside a transparent sphere.[4] According to Stephen Jay Gould, "there never was a period of 'flat earth darkness' among scholars (regardless of how the public at large may have conceptualized our planet both then and now). Greek knowledge of sphericity never faded, and all major medieval scholars accepted the earth's roundness as an established fact of cosmology."[5] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Myth_of_the_Flat_Earth |
|
By:
I will answer your question maleuk01.
Virus which was the first to be created originated from the energy of rocks. Where that energy came from is a mystery, but energy is the answer Do you have any evidence for this? |
|
By:
I want to know where the first 'thing' came from. Doesn't matter if this was energy or atoms or magnetism or whatever, just...where did the first THING come from
this is the problem with infinite regression. this is one of the reasons I believe in God.it's the only logical answer to believe in a God that had no creator ,that has always existed. a all powerful being, that existed before time. |
|
By:
But that isn't logical at all because it means that something had to create him, thus the cycle continues.
|
|
By:
ffs dont encourage the muppit.
|
|
By:
But that isn't logical at all because it means that something had to create him, thus the cycle continues.
Nothing has to create God because he is a self sustaining all powerful being who existed before time.anything outside of time and space does not need a cause.if God needed a cause then he wouldn't be all powerful there fore he wouldn't be God.not an all powerful God anyway. |
|
By:
James Dean was a rebel without a cause
was he god ?  |
|
By:
To some people ,yes.
|
|
By:
explain those sea monkeys
|
|
By:
Facny popping on the University thread Cristo and having a bash at defending your latest indefensible utterance?
|
|
By:
"And like that, poof. He's gone."
|
|
By:
[:o]
|
|
By:
Sunset Cristo 09 Mar 11 00:37
Says someone who, in the face of every piece of scientific evidence, believes in an omnipresent being for whom the only 'evidence' is There is no scientific evidence that God does not exist, if there is then please present it now. Yeah, lets prove a negative, noble prize for anyone, there |
|
By:
Not convinced there`s that much intelligent life on Earth.......
|
|
By:
the universe is vast (to say the least) and very complex. so too think we are just organisms that are capable of observing the universe is just something that was bound too happen, given the massive odds that are available in the universe. such an amazing place the universe
|
|
By:
i doubt very much that if heaven exists, it is within the universe, so i have me doubts.
|
|
By:
but i love you all
 |
|
By:
Flatliner, Cristo knows only too well that you can't prove a negative. He's written those words on here many times himself.
He also knows very well that the burden of proof for his god theory lies with those that believe it to be true. He says he's provided evidence. This isn't true. All he's ever written is reasons why HE believes it to be true. There isn't any evidence, and he knows that. And yet he still trolls out the same garbage time after time in his inimitably arrogant fashion, attempting (and failing) to belittle anyone who dares to disagree with him. He's just a wind-up merchant. A god troll. It's how he gets hid kicks. |
|
By:
Just a small snippet of proof to back up what I just wrote:
Sunset Cristo 30 Apr 10 01:53 I don't know that anyone can prove God. . . . and yet he continually writes that he's provided proof! Sunset Cristo 30 Apr 10 01:53 You can't prove God doesn't exist because you can't prove a negative. And yet he continually asks people to do just that! He needs counselling. |