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And if so, do you have anything to back up the belief other than a wish to make yourself feel better about inevitable death of yourself and loved ones
Also what makes your god and his story any more likely to be the real truth than any other?
Also what makes your god and his story any more likely to be the real truth than any other?
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slartybartfast. 30 Apr 22:55
Good post, Kinght Rider.
My 7-year-old son asked me this question this very afternoon: "Where did the first person come from?"
I said something along these lines:
"Well, nobody knows for sure. But there there are basically two main stories that people believe. The first is that God (he goes to a CE school as it's good and local, so he knows a little about the Christian version of God) or gods made the first person. The second story is that the first person came from apes by a process of gradual change we call evolution."
It's a tricky question but I think I was fair.
Or both are true. I don't have kids, but if I did I wouldn't ram Christianity down their throats. This could back fire anyway. I don't know any Christians that do this actually. They take them to Church and Sunday school, but what are supposed to do leave tham at home when they go to Church? Social services would not be happy.People influence there kids in many ways. Mostly through actions. For example if parents smoke it is more likely that the kids will. Francis of Assisi said preach the gospel and speak if you have too. kids aren't stupid if they don't see it in their parents lifes they will probably reject their parents faith anyway.
Good post, Kinght Rider.
My 7-year-old son asked me this question this very afternoon: "Where did the first person come from?"
I said something along these lines:
"Well, nobody knows for sure. But there there are basically two main stories that people believe. The first is that God (he goes to a CE school as it's good and local, so he knows a little about the Christian version of God) or gods made the first person. The second story is that the first person came from apes by a process of gradual change we call evolution."
It's a tricky question but I think I was fair.
Or both are true. I don't have kids, but if I did I wouldn't ram Christianity down their throats. This could back fire anyway. I don't know any Christians that do this actually. They take them to Church and Sunday school, but what are supposed to do leave tham at home when they go to Church? Social services would not be happy.People influence there kids in many ways. Mostly through actions. For example if parents smoke it is more likely that the kids will. Francis of Assisi said preach the gospel and speak if you have too. kids aren't stupid if they don't see it in their parents lifes they will probably reject their parents faith anyway.
greenviking 30 Apr 22:56
Yes that answers it for me.I went the other way believed until I was about 14 or so,was raised by an atheist father and an Irish catholic mother.
I was an agnostic till I was 16.
When I stopped and thought about it none of it would sit with me,I just cant fathom how there could be a God/Gods as the faiths describe him/them.
Will you explain this a bit better?
Although I do believe the universe was designed,by what I dont know.
This makes no sense to me.the definition of God is the being who designed the universe. You are contradicting yourself.
I agree any bad stuff in our lives is by and large our own doing
This I agree with. Although alot people blame God or religion for some reason . This is how I used to think before I grow up and started thinking about things.
Yes that answers it for me.I went the other way believed until I was about 14 or so,was raised by an atheist father and an Irish catholic mother.
I was an agnostic till I was 16.
When I stopped and thought about it none of it would sit with me,I just cant fathom how there could be a God/Gods as the faiths describe him/them.
Will you explain this a bit better?
Although I do believe the universe was designed,by what I dont know.
This makes no sense to me.the definition of God is the being who designed the universe. You are contradicting yourself.
I agree any bad stuff in our lives is by and large our own doing
This I agree with. Although alot people blame God or religion for some reason . This is how I used to think before I grow up and started thinking about things.
greenviking 30 Apr 23:10
They are a result of my thoughts,which I suppose are a result of my experiences
So basically your beliefs are based on random events not free will or rational thought.
They are a result of my thoughts,which I suppose are a result of my experiences
So basically your beliefs are based on random events not free will or rational thought.
Bung It On 30 Apr 23:26
Yes.
Your beliefs come from your experiences. Real OR imagined. Neither of us know for sure which is which.
Your interpretation of those experiences based on your thoughts at the time helped create your beliefs.
If this was true why should some one like Ted Bundy be held guilty for what he did.Ted acted According his beliefs which led to his actions are and they are just a result of his experiences. And what you are saying is only your belief based on your random experiences so why should I take any notice of it?
It does not matter whether something is true or false, if you believe it... it is true. And you/we will form other thoughts to support the primary belief. We all do this.
Some more than others. we have to try and be objective as possible if we really want to know the truth.
We are usually uncomfortable when someone challenges our beliefs but we should remember, this happens when their own beliefs have been challenged and they, themselves feel uncomfortable about the strength of their own beliefs.
True. I like these debates because I might have missed something.Then I would only be fooling myself or **ing myself.i like my beliefs to be challened to see if they can stand up to the challenge. If not they have to change.
beliefs are powerful motivators because people behave as if they are factual when very often they are not.
Valid, but according to it's all down to our experinces so according to you we can never know the truth.
Yes.
Your beliefs come from your experiences. Real OR imagined. Neither of us know for sure which is which.
Your interpretation of those experiences based on your thoughts at the time helped create your beliefs.
If this was true why should some one like Ted Bundy be held guilty for what he did.Ted acted According his beliefs which led to his actions are and they are just a result of his experiences. And what you are saying is only your belief based on your random experiences so why should I take any notice of it?
It does not matter whether something is true or false, if you believe it... it is true. And you/we will form other thoughts to support the primary belief. We all do this.
Some more than others. we have to try and be objective as possible if we really want to know the truth.
We are usually uncomfortable when someone challenges our beliefs but we should remember, this happens when their own beliefs have been challenged and they, themselves feel uncomfortable about the strength of their own beliefs.
True. I like these debates because I might have missed something.Then I would only be fooling myself or **ing myself.i like my beliefs to be challened to see if they can stand up to the challenge. If not they have to change.
beliefs are powerful motivators because people behave as if they are factual when very often they are not.
Valid, but according to it's all down to our experinces so according to you we can never know the truth.
trying 01 May 00:04
whether god exists or not, religion has a lot to answer for.
Religion has turned father against son,mother against daughter.
You could say the same about politics. Do you think poilitics is a bad thing? Do you think politics should be banned?
We are still to this day fighting in the name of god. Tell me that this is righteous and holy
of course it is not. There is false and true religion. true religion is to love God and your fellow man. this is what Jesus taught. Men have twisted what he said. This just shows how evil and sinful people can be.
whether god exists or not, religion has a lot to answer for.
Religion has turned father against son,mother against daughter.
You could say the same about politics. Do you think poilitics is a bad thing? Do you think politics should be banned?
We are still to this day fighting in the name of god. Tell me that this is righteous and holy
of course it is not. There is false and true religion. true religion is to love God and your fellow man. this is what Jesus taught. Men have twisted what he said. This just shows how evil and sinful people can be.
bodil 01 May 01:13
Lots do because it makes them part of the community. That or the community will kill them.
Who are you on about?
Lots do because it makes them part of the community. That or the community will kill them.
Who are you on about?
Sunset, of course our thoughts are based on our experiences. To have a rational thought, you need information to process, you only gain information through your experiences.
There is an argument that there may be some genetic precoding but ultimately that willl have come from experience of our ancesters too.
There is an argument that there may be some genetic precoding but ultimately that willl have come from experience of our ancesters too.
how do you consolidate prayer and infalibility?
Not sure what you are asking here. Can you explain a bit better?
Does your god make mistakes?
Not sure what you are asking here. Can you explain a bit better?
Does your god make mistakes?
Sunset what are you talking my thoughts being from random events?According to you it wont happen if it is not gods will,which makes nothing random as its gods will,thats a contradiction.And of course all thoughts are a result of what does/doesnt happen to you in your life and your personal beliefs arise from this.As for believing the universe was designed I can do that without having to believe the Christian version of it cant I.I believe it was scientifically designed not mystically or divinely,to theorise perhaps by an advanced race or races.Also you have been asked a few times on thid thread why you consider your belief system superior to others and answered that in Christianity ye believe god already loves you etc.-this only states why you like it and why it appeals to you not why you consign other faiths to the bin.
Also the more you understand about how something operates the closer you get to why.Stephen hawkings said this himself and it makes sense
Well his computer said it. We're just assuming he typed it first. ;)
Sunset Cristo 01 May 18:58
hoofer 30 Apr 22:00
It's impossible to say whether God does or doesn't exist.hth
You do realize that agnostics can't be right. Either the theist,deist or atheist is Right. God either exists or he doesn't.
Perhaps, but nor can they be wrong. ;)
hoofer 30 Apr 22:00
It's impossible to say whether God does or doesn't exist.hth
You do realize that agnostics can't be right. Either the theist,deist or atheist is Right. God either exists or he doesn't.
Perhaps, but nor can they be wrong. ;)
bodil 01 May 01:26
Religion - do what the shifty guy in the skirt tells you to or it's a slow knife in the guts.
Try to grow up you wasters. Concentrate
Are you on drugs? shifty guy in the skirt. This may be your idea of God, but it's not mine. You are the one who needs to grow up. You make baseless assertions that you don't back up with an evidence. typical atheist. And then you make puerile insults.Don't run off you chicken. Have the guts to provide some evidence for your beliefs.
Religion - do what the shifty guy in the skirt tells you to or it's a slow knife in the guts.
Try to grow up you wasters. Concentrate
Are you on drugs? shifty guy in the skirt. This may be your idea of God, but it's not mine. You are the one who needs to grow up. You make baseless assertions that you don't back up with an evidence. typical atheist. And then you make puerile insults.Don't run off you chicken. Have the guts to provide some evidence for your beliefs.
bodil 01 May 01:31
fitzy - what can I say? If you're not getting vagina out of your current plan, try pagan?
Grow up? Jog on. Come back when you can have an intelligent adult conversation.
fitzy - what can I say? If you're not getting vagina out of your current plan, try pagan?
Grow up? Jog on. Come back when you can have an intelligent adult conversation.
fitzy 01 May 01:36
Paganism is a belief , no difference.
Valid. And so is atheism. They believe that no God or gods exist.
Paganism is a belief , no difference.
Valid. And so is atheism. They believe that no God or gods exist.
Zola's Back Heel 01 May 01:40
What do you think of crystal healing?
Crystal healing is New Age not Christian. Any effects are probably down to the placebo effect.
What do you think of crystal healing?
Crystal healing is New Age not Christian. Any effects are probably down to the placebo effect.
David Fishwick Minibus Sales 01 May 05:03
i believe i may convert to islam at some point in the near future. inchallah my brother.
Why would you want to convert to an uncivilised religion like Islam.The Koran teaches Muslims to kill the infidel.
i believe i may convert to islam at some point in the near future. inchallah my brother.
Why would you want to convert to an uncivilised religion like Islam.The Koran teaches Muslims to kill the infidel.
man of many moods 01 May 11:32
NOOO!!!! I'm not having that! That's really unfair.
It's given conclusive proof of several other people's stupidity too... on both sides of the argument.
[b]This another one of your baseless opinion. If you have evidence for your inane beliefs why don't you present it. Put up or shut up?[/b]
NOOO!!!! I'm not having that! That's really unfair.
It's given conclusive proof of several other people's stupidity too... on both sides of the argument.
[b]This another one of your baseless opinion. If you have evidence for your inane beliefs why don't you present it. Put up or shut up?[/b]
BonViv 01 May 18:34
HOW DID ADAM AND EVE DEAL WITH DINOSAURS?
[b]They didn't have to they were separated by millions of years. You need to learn about evolution.[/b]
HOW DID ADAM AND EVE DEAL WITH DINOSAURS?
[b]They didn't have to they were separated by millions of years. You need to learn about evolution.[/b]
custardcream64 01 May 18:59
Keep up the good work SC .
Thank you. Some one has to try and inform the ignorant . It amazes me that people can be so misinformed when we have the internet. If only people were this misinformed about pricing a race up. Winning on bet fair would be much easier.
Keep up the good work SC .
Thank you. Some one has to try and inform the ignorant . It amazes me that people can be so misinformed when we have the internet. If only people were this misinformed about pricing a race up. Winning on bet fair would be much easier.
Zola's Back Heel 01 May 19:34
Sunset, of course our thoughts are based on our experiences. To have a rational thought, you need information to process, you only gain information through your experiences.
There is an argument that there may be some genetic precoding but ultimately that willl have come from experience of our ancesters too.
So there is no free will? I'd like to see a defence lawyer try this one in court. Oh well ladies and gentlemen of the jury my client couldn't help kill and torture that baby because of his past experiences. He was abused as a kid and so was his Mother. My client had no choice in the matter because of his past experiences. it's in his DNA you know. While these circumstances should be taken into account that doesn't mean the man would be innocent or that he shouldn't be punished.Our society is based on the belief of free will.
Sunset, of course our thoughts are based on our experiences. To have a rational thought, you need information to process, you only gain information through your experiences.
There is an argument that there may be some genetic precoding but ultimately that willl have come from experience of our ancesters too.
So there is no free will? I'd like to see a defence lawyer try this one in court. Oh well ladies and gentlemen of the jury my client couldn't help kill and torture that baby because of his past experiences. He was abused as a kid and so was his Mother. My client had no choice in the matter because of his past experiences. it's in his DNA you know. While these circumstances should be taken into account that doesn't mean the man would be innocent or that he shouldn't be punished.Our society is based on the belief of free will.
Zola's Back Heel 01 May 19:41
how do you consolidate prayer and infalibility?
Not sure what you are asking here. Can you explain a bit better?
Does your god make mistakes?
No.
how do you consolidate prayer and infalibility?
Not sure what you are asking here. Can you explain a bit better?
Does your god make mistakes?
No.
greenviking 01 May 19:45
Sunset what are you talking my thoughts being from random events?According to you it wont happen if it is not gods will,which makes nothing random as its gods will,thats a contradiction.
[b]Most atheists believe that the big bang just happened by chance. You are the first atheist that I have ever spoke to that thought it was designed.if it was a random event then everything else is random. If it was designed then everything else is designed. the latter is my position.[/b]
And of course all thoughts are a result of what does/doesnt happen to you in your life and your personal beliefs arise from this.
So you don't believe in free will? They have studied twins separated at birth . Brought up by different parents under very different circumstances and the twins have had very similar experiences and think alike . etc.. They have also studied twins brought up by the same parents under very similar circumstances and their personalities are like chalk and cheese.
As for believing the universe was designed I can do that without having to believe the Christian version of it cant I
yes you can, but it would still make you a theist or at least a deist not an atheist.
.I believe it was scientifically designed not mystically or divinely,to theorise perhaps by an advanced race or races
[b]These advanced race or races would be gods then. So you believe in gods. So you are a theist. A god is 2 : a being or object believed to have more than natural attributes and powers and to require human worship; specifically : one controlling a particular aspect or part of reality[/b]
http://www.merriam-webster.com/netdict/god
.Also you have been asked a few times on thid thread why you consider your belief system superior to others and answered that in Christianity ye believe god already loves you etc.-this only states why you like it and why it appeals to you not why you consign other faiths to the bin.
[b]I was trying to show that Christianity is unique. I was trying to show why it is different from other religions. As for liking it I would give it up tomorrow. if you could prove it wrong or that is was false. why would i want to live my life believing a lie. As for liking it. When I first began to examine Christianity I didn't want to become religious. But if you want to be intellectually honest you have to follow the evidence where ever it goes. I consign other faiths to the bin because there is no evidence for them. There is evidence for Christianity based on eyewitness testimony in the gospels that you reject . You have given no reason why you reject this evidence. So I ask you again why do you reject the gospels?[/b]
Sunset what are you talking my thoughts being from random events?According to you it wont happen if it is not gods will,which makes nothing random as its gods will,thats a contradiction.
[b]Most atheists believe that the big bang just happened by chance. You are the first atheist that I have ever spoke to that thought it was designed.if it was a random event then everything else is random. If it was designed then everything else is designed. the latter is my position.[/b]
And of course all thoughts are a result of what does/doesnt happen to you in your life and your personal beliefs arise from this.
So you don't believe in free will? They have studied twins separated at birth . Brought up by different parents under very different circumstances and the twins have had very similar experiences and think alike . etc.. They have also studied twins brought up by the same parents under very similar circumstances and their personalities are like chalk and cheese.
As for believing the universe was designed I can do that without having to believe the Christian version of it cant I
yes you can, but it would still make you a theist or at least a deist not an atheist.
.I believe it was scientifically designed not mystically or divinely,to theorise perhaps by an advanced race or races
[b]These advanced race or races would be gods then. So you believe in gods. So you are a theist. A god is 2 : a being or object believed to have more than natural attributes and powers and to require human worship; specifically : one controlling a particular aspect or part of reality[/b]
http://www.merriam-webster.com/netdict/god
.Also you have been asked a few times on thid thread why you consider your belief system superior to others and answered that in Christianity ye believe god already loves you etc.-this only states why you like it and why it appeals to you not why you consign other faiths to the bin.
[b]I was trying to show that Christianity is unique. I was trying to show why it is different from other religions. As for liking it I would give it up tomorrow. if you could prove it wrong or that is was false. why would i want to live my life believing a lie. As for liking it. When I first began to examine Christianity I didn't want to become religious. But if you want to be intellectually honest you have to follow the evidence where ever it goes. I consign other faiths to the bin because there is no evidence for them. There is evidence for Christianity based on eyewitness testimony in the gospels that you reject . You have given no reason why you reject this evidence. So I ask you again why do you reject the gospels?[/b]
greenviking 01 May 19:52
Also the more you understand about how something operates the closer you get to why.Stephen hawkings said this himself and it makes sense
[b]Please give an example of this?[/b]
Also the more you understand about how something operates the closer you get to why.Stephen hawkings said this himself and it makes sense
[b]Please give an example of this?[/b]
Zola's Back Heel 01 May 19:56
Well his computer said it. We're just assuming he typed it first.
[b]What are you trying to say?[/b]
Well his computer said it. We're just assuming he typed it first.
[b]What are you trying to say?[/b]
slartybartfast. 01 May 20:09
Sunset Cristo 01 May 18:58
hoofer 30 Apr 22:00
It's impossible to say whether God does or doesn't exist.hth
You do realize that agnostics can't be right. Either the theist,deist or atheist is Right. God either exists or he doesn't.
Perhaps, but nor can they be wrong.
[b]They are always wrong. Either the atheists or Theists is right. God either exists or he doesn't. There is no middle answer.
only two possible answers.[/b]
Sunset Cristo 01 May 18:58
hoofer 30 Apr 22:00
It's impossible to say whether God does or doesn't exist.hth
You do realize that agnostics can't be right. Either the theist,deist or atheist is Right. God either exists or he doesn't.
Perhaps, but nor can they be wrong.
[b]They are always wrong. Either the atheists or Theists is right. God either exists or he doesn't. There is no middle answer.
only two possible answers.[/b]
I am Sikh and have found you are only a good sikh when people say you are. Can you be a Sikh and not believe in god. I'm not sure, i suppose there wouldn't be many left. I am singling out my own religion. It is my favourite religion and would never be anything else. If people believe in god then everything they do in life would be done with the creator in mind. Most religous people give the impression they are religous to make themselves look good. If religion is no more than a sect or community with their own motives perhaps it is best that i walk my own path. It is a shame because i always liked culture and religion but have isolated myself because i dont always like what i see.
I cannot follow blind faith. How many people on here back horses without reading the form
I cannot follow blind faith. How many people on here back horses without reading the form
sunset
Im not saying that your faith is wrong. If it gives you the comfort that you need in life then surely for all faithfull people thats a good thing.
you are trying to answer a question that is unanswerable!.
Humankind have had this argument for centuries.
imo science has given more evidence of creation than god.
Im not saying that your faith is wrong. If it gives you the comfort that you need in life then surely for all faithfull people thats a good thing.
you are trying to answer a question that is unanswerable!.
Humankind have had this argument for centuries.
imo science has given more evidence of creation than god.
Zola's Back Heel
Does your god make mistakes?
Sunset Cristo
No.
So you don't partake in prayer.
Does your god make mistakes?
Sunset Cristo
No.
So you don't partake in prayer.
trying 02 May 19:17
sunset
Im not saying that your faith is wrong. If it gives you the comfort that you need in life then surely for all faithfull people thats a good thing.
There is alot more to it than that though. Christians have been persecuted for the last 2000 years.It's not really about some fussy warm feeling in your belly. it's about what is really true in life.
you are trying to answer a question that is unanswerable!.
How do you know? and what makes you think that?
Humankind have had this argument for centuries.
True
imo science has given more evidence of creation than god.
Science can only answer the how questions not the why questions. This area is religion, philosophy and metaphysics have the answers. science can say nothing about anything out side of time and space.
sunset
Im not saying that your faith is wrong. If it gives you the comfort that you need in life then surely for all faithfull people thats a good thing.
There is alot more to it than that though. Christians have been persecuted for the last 2000 years.It's not really about some fussy warm feeling in your belly. it's about what is really true in life.
you are trying to answer a question that is unanswerable!.
How do you know? and what makes you think that?
Humankind have had this argument for centuries.
True
imo science has given more evidence of creation than god.
Science can only answer the how questions not the why questions. This area is religion, philosophy and metaphysics have the answers. science can say nothing about anything out side of time and space.
Zola's Back Heel 02 May 19:18
Zola's Back Heel
Does your god make mistakes?
Sunset Cristo
No.
So you don't partake in prayer.
Yes i do.
Zola's Back Heel
Does your god make mistakes?
Sunset Cristo
No.
So you don't partake in prayer.
Yes i do.
Do you pray for certain things to change, or be just as they are?
Sunset
There is alot more to it than that though. Christians have been persecuted for the last 2000 years.It's not really about some fussy warm feeling in your belly. it's about what is really true in life.
Why have Christians been persecuted for 2000 years?
and iyo what is true in life.
imo the only thing that is true, is that we die eventually.
There is alot more to it than that though. Christians have been persecuted for the last 2000 years.It's not really about some fussy warm feeling in your belly. it's about what is really true in life.
Why have Christians been persecuted for 2000 years?
and iyo what is true in life.
imo the only thing that is true, is that we die eventually.
oh dear! what a fuss, peple calling me stupid because they disagree with what i believe!!
people typing that thoughts are invisible, yet i am able to read what they thought about my opinion that thoughts are invisible????
who is more stupid i wonder, the stupid person who starts a thread or a clever person?? who feels the need to respond
1.can anyone give me evidence that any god exists?
2. can anyone explain the reason why most people go out of their way to avoid dying prematurely if heaven is so wonderful?, nobody seems to want to get their, almost as if they dont 100 percent believe it is there hmmm!
3.can anyone answer the question, that if evolution is nonsense and god!(the christian god!, not any other) created the world in 6 days, then who created god???
4. If your god and his creation story is the right one, then by defenition all others are false! how arrogant, i could go on and on and on, evidence please!!!!!!!
people typing that thoughts are invisible, yet i am able to read what they thought about my opinion that thoughts are invisible????
who is more stupid i wonder, the stupid person who starts a thread or a clever person?? who feels the need to respond
1.can anyone give me evidence that any god exists?
2. can anyone explain the reason why most people go out of their way to avoid dying prematurely if heaven is so wonderful?, nobody seems to want to get their, almost as if they dont 100 percent believe it is there hmmm!
3.can anyone answer the question, that if evolution is nonsense and god!(the christian god!, not any other) created the world in 6 days, then who created god???
4. If your god and his creation story is the right one, then by defenition all others are false! how arrogant, i could go on and on and on, evidence please!!!!!!!
I read this thread expecting someone to have definitively established whether God existed - after thousands of yers conflict, this would seem to be the perfect platform to get this sorted once and for all
an opportunity wasted
an opportunity wasted
icabod if you knew the answers to these questions you would BE god. youll find out when you die.
Zola's Back Heel 02 May 19:38
Do you pray for certain things to change, or be just as they are?
I do pray for some things to change , but always pray for Gods will to be done. This is how Jesus said to pray.
Do you pray for certain things to change, or be just as they are?
I do pray for some things to change , but always pray for Gods will to be done. This is how Jesus said to pray.
trying 02 May 19:40
Sunset
There is alot more to it than that though. Christians have been persecuted for the last 2000 years.It's not really about some fussy warm feeling in your belly. it's about what is really true in life.
Why have Christians been persecuted for 2000 years?
and iyo what is true in life.
imo the only thing that is true, is that we die eventually
Probably the same reason the Jews have because they are different from the crowd. People are frightened by people who are different to them. So everything thing else is a lie? Why do you think that?
Sunset
There is alot more to it than that though. Christians have been persecuted for the last 2000 years.It's not really about some fussy warm feeling in your belly. it's about what is really true in life.
Why have Christians been persecuted for 2000 years?
and iyo what is true in life.
imo the only thing that is true, is that we die eventually
Probably the same reason the Jews have because they are different from the crowd. People are frightened by people who are different to them. So everything thing else is a lie? Why do you think that?
fkqmz 03 May 08:44
icabod if you knew the answers to these questions you would BE god. youll find out when you die.
He is god in his own eyes. Very arrogant. This is why he can't see the truth. It's not God who is on trail it's us.
icabod if you knew the answers to these questions you would BE god. youll find out when you die.
He is god in his own eyes. Very arrogant. This is why he can't see the truth. It's not God who is on trail it's us.
FatherMaguire 03 May 08:41
I read this thread expecting someone to have definitively established whether God existed - after thousands of yers conflict, this would seem to be the perfect platform to get this sorted once and for all
an opportunity wasted
Feel free to put us all straight then. I haven't seen you contribute anything. Does the word consistency mean anything to you?
I read this thread expecting someone to have definitively established whether God existed - after thousands of yers conflict, this would seem to be the perfect platform to get this sorted once and for all
an opportunity wasted
Feel free to put us all straight then. I haven't seen you contribute anything. Does the word consistency mean anything to you?
just a quick return foray for me
Probably the same reason the Jews have because they are different from the crowd. People are frightened by people who are different to them
You earlier stated that Christians or Theists if you prefer were a majority.
That is all
Probably the same reason the Jews have because they are different from the crowd. People are frightened by people who are different to them
You earlier stated that Christians or Theists if you prefer were a majority.
That is all
oh please do continue to allow teh sarcastic respones and jokes to fly miles over your head its the entertaining part of this thread :)
I do pray for some things to change
Seems a bit pointless. You want god to change what is to happen, thereby asking god to change what god was (in its infinite wisom) going to allow to happen until you "interviened".
but always pray for Gods will to be done.
Surely that contradicts with praying for change.
Seems a bit pointless. You want god to change what is to happen, thereby asking god to change what god was (in its infinite wisom) going to allow to happen until you "interviened".
but always pray for Gods will to be done.
Surely that contradicts with praying for change.
Zola - he is just saying in essence 'Keep up the good work big man' its a kind of appraisal I guess. :)
Child of the Rafalution 03 May 14:03
just a quick return foray for me
Probably the same reason the Jews have because they are different from the crowd. People are frightened by people who are different to them
You earlier stated that Christians or Theists if you prefer were a majority.
That is all
Theists are a majority . About 86%. Christians 40%. There are many that believe in God that are not Christians. Muslims for a start. It's simple math.
just a quick return foray for me
Probably the same reason the Jews have because they are different from the crowd. People are frightened by people who are different to them
You earlier stated that Christians or Theists if you prefer were a majority.
That is all
Theists are a majority . About 86%. Christians 40%. There are many that believe in God that are not Christians. Muslims for a start. It's simple math.
Zola's Back Heel 03 May 14:07
I do pray for some things to change
Seems a bit pointless. You want god to change what is to happen, thereby asking god to change what god was (in its infinite wisom) going to allow to happen until you "interviened".
but always pray for Gods will to be done.
Surely that contradicts with praying for change.
No because I'm praying for a change if it is Gods will. I don't always no what Gods will is.
I do pray for some things to change
Seems a bit pointless. You want god to change what is to happen, thereby asking god to change what god was (in its infinite wisom) going to allow to happen until you "interviened".
but always pray for Gods will to be done.
Surely that contradicts with praying for change.
No because I'm praying for a change if it is Gods will. I don't always no what Gods will is.
Child of the Rafalution 03 May 14:09
Zola - he is just saying in essence 'Keep up the good work big man' its a kind of appraisal I guess.
No that would be thanking or praising God for what he has done. That is not asking for anything.
Zola - he is just saying in essence 'Keep up the good work big man' its a kind of appraisal I guess.
No that would be thanking or praising God for what he has done. That is not asking for anything.
SO what do you accomplish by praying, gods will will be done, irrespective of what you pray for, yes?
ffs pedantic much, you are 40% of the population, the muslims say for example 40% stop being bullied, stand up for yourselves and you will find you wont get persecuted then.
Zola's Back Heel 03 May 14:13
SO what do you accomplish by praying, gods will will be done, irrespective of what you pray for, yes
It's about a relationship as much as anything else. Like a kid asking his Dad for something. Some times the dad says no because he knows it's bad for him. For example 3 cream cakes.(because it will make him fat and damage his health) The Dad knows it's bad even though the kids might not understand and think his Dads just being mean.When a kid asks his Dad for something he doesn't know if it's his dads will or not to let him have it.
SO what do you accomplish by praying, gods will will be done, irrespective of what you pray for, yes
It's about a relationship as much as anything else. Like a kid asking his Dad for something. Some times the dad says no because he knows it's bad for him. For example 3 cream cakes.(because it will make him fat and damage his health) The Dad knows it's bad even though the kids might not understand and think his Dads just being mean.When a kid asks his Dad for something he doesn't know if it's his dads will or not to let him have it.
Child of the Rafalution 03 May 14:15
ffs pedantic much, you are 40% of the population, the muslims say for example 40% stop being bullied, stand up for yourselves and you will find you wont get persecuted then.
You mean like the Muslims are doing. 9/11 and Afghanistan.They think the west and Isreal is persecuting and killing muslims. The Jews have always stud up for themselves. They stood up to the Romans and the Nazis. Didn't stop them being persecuted.
ffs pedantic much, you are 40% of the population, the muslims say for example 40% stop being bullied, stand up for yourselves and you will find you wont get persecuted then.
You mean like the Muslims are doing. 9/11 and Afghanistan.They think the west and Isreal is persecuting and killing muslims. The Jews have always stud up for themselves. They stood up to the Romans and the Nazis. Didn't stop them being persecuted.
I don't see how that is a valid analogy.
You have said yourself that no matter whatever you actually pray for, it will not actually change what actually happens. It is an irrelevant act.
You have said yourself that no matter whatever you actually pray for, it will not actually change what actually happens. It is an irrelevant act.
Zola's Back Heel 03 May 14:25
I don't see how that is a valid analogy.
You have said yourself that no matter whatever you actually pray for, it will not actually change what actually happens. It is an irrelevant act
Prayer is more about us changing than God. When we pray we change. we submit to Gods will.
I don't see how that is a valid analogy.
You have said yourself that no matter whatever you actually pray for, it will not actually change what actually happens. It is an irrelevant act
Prayer is more about us changing than God. When we pray we change. we submit to Gods will.
You mean like the Muslims are doing. 9/11 and Afghanistan.They think the west and Isreal is persecuting and killing muslims. The Jews have always stud up for themselves. They stood up to the Romans and the Nazis. Didn't stop them being persecuted.
Oh dear Oh dear, you didnt say that did you? I think you will find that these acts were carried out by extremist/radicals call them what you will. They are rejected by the main stream Muslims. You have tarred the Muslim people with the same brush here. Pretty outrageous IMO.
Oh and the Jews were a vast minority compared to the Nazis and the Romans and the power they had. Christians at 40% must be by your definition the single biggest group of like minded people on earth therefore having no cause to be persecuted. They are scorned by those who believe in logic and science in some cases as we know, but surely your faith can cope with that.
Here is another statement,
Christians committed the bombing of the Alfred P. Murrah Building on April 19, 1995, killing 168 people, including 19 children under the age of six. Timothy Mcveigh.
Oh dear Oh dear, you didnt say that did you? I think you will find that these acts were carried out by extremist/radicals call them what you will. They are rejected by the main stream Muslims. You have tarred the Muslim people with the same brush here. Pretty outrageous IMO.
Oh and the Jews were a vast minority compared to the Nazis and the Romans and the power they had. Christians at 40% must be by your definition the single biggest group of like minded people on earth therefore having no cause to be persecuted. They are scorned by those who believe in logic and science in some cases as we know, but surely your faith can cope with that.
Here is another statement,
Christians committed the bombing of the Alfred P. Murrah Building on April 19, 1995, killing 168 people, including 19 children under the age of six. Timothy Mcveigh.
But surely even change in yourself will is ultimately down to gods will whether you actually change or not?
Child of the Rafalution 03 May 14:30
You mean like the Muslims are doing. 9/11 and Afghanistan.They think the west and Isreal is persecuting and killing muslims. The Jews have always stud up for themselves. They stood up to the Romans and the Nazis. Didn't stop them being persecuted.
Oh dear Oh dear, you didnt say that did you? I think you will find that these acts were carried out by extremist/radicals call them what you will. They are rejected by the main stream Muslims. You have tarred the Muslim people with the same brush here. Pretty outrageous IMO.
The Koran says to kill the infidel. Bin Laden is only doing what the Koran says. The other Muslims are in denial about what their own book says.
Oh and the Jews were a vast minority compared to the Nazis and the Romans and the power they had. Christians at 40% must be by your definition the single biggest group of like minded people on earth therefore having no cause to be persecuted.
They are a tiny minority in many country's like North Korea and China. You think this 40% is equally distributed across the planet.LOL. You have got a lot to learn.
They are scorned by those who believe in logic and science in some cases as we know, but surely your faith can cope with that.
This is just another subtle form of persecution. This is often the prelude to proper persecution. As for those that believe in logic and science so do Christians. Prove that they don't? This is your baseless assertion.
Here is another statement,
Christians committed the bombing of the Alfred P. Murrah Building on April 19, 1995, killing 168 people, including 19 children under the age of six. Timothy Mcveigh.
What is your evidence for this statement?
his statement?
You mean like the Muslims are doing. 9/11 and Afghanistan.They think the west and Isreal is persecuting and killing muslims. The Jews have always stud up for themselves. They stood up to the Romans and the Nazis. Didn't stop them being persecuted.
Oh dear Oh dear, you didnt say that did you? I think you will find that these acts were carried out by extremist/radicals call them what you will. They are rejected by the main stream Muslims. You have tarred the Muslim people with the same brush here. Pretty outrageous IMO.
The Koran says to kill the infidel. Bin Laden is only doing what the Koran says. The other Muslims are in denial about what their own book says.
Oh and the Jews were a vast minority compared to the Nazis and the Romans and the power they had. Christians at 40% must be by your definition the single biggest group of like minded people on earth therefore having no cause to be persecuted.
They are a tiny minority in many country's like North Korea and China. You think this 40% is equally distributed across the planet.LOL. You have got a lot to learn.
They are scorned by those who believe in logic and science in some cases as we know, but surely your faith can cope with that.
This is just another subtle form of persecution. This is often the prelude to proper persecution. As for those that believe in logic and science so do Christians. Prove that they don't? This is your baseless assertion.
Here is another statement,
Christians committed the bombing of the Alfred P. Murrah Building on April 19, 1995, killing 168 people, including 19 children under the age of six. Timothy Mcveigh.
What is your evidence for this statement?
his statement?
Zola's Back Heel 03 May 14:37
But surely even change in yourself will is ultimately down to gods will whether you actually change or not?
In a sense yes, but we have free will You believe in free will dont you?
But surely even change in yourself will is ultimately down to gods will whether you actually change or not?
In a sense yes, but we have free will You believe in free will dont you?
Mcveigh was a Catholic, 9/11 bombers were Muslim, I was demostrating the absurdness of your earlier claims.
Thanks for the LOL, yeah I believe that they are all int he same geographical area. I am that stupid. Lots more excuses today. Everyhting you are challenged with is an assertation and yet the Gospels speak truth, because they are apaprently eye witness accounts. Obviously this couldnt be a falsehood, and even if they were written at the times there is no possible reason for them to be lies?
I think Ill just read this thread now rather than contibute, at least for the time being, feel free to say I am giving up etc
Thanks for the LOL, yeah I believe that they are all int he same geographical area. I am that stupid. Lots more excuses today. Everyhting you are challenged with is an assertation and yet the Gospels speak truth, because they are apaprently eye witness accounts. Obviously this couldnt be a falsehood, and even if they were written at the times there is no possible reason for them to be lies?
I think Ill just read this thread now rather than contibute, at least for the time being, feel free to say I am giving up etc
I still can't be arsed reading all this but I want to be involved in the ruck.
I wonder you you believe in free will.
If whatever you chose to do at any time, in any circumstance, is ultimately gods will, that doesn't sound very free to me. More like an illusion of freedom.
If whatever you chose to do at any time, in any circumstance, is ultimately gods will, that doesn't sound very free to me. More like an illusion of freedom.
Ovalman Ill summarize
God is never wrong, non believers WILL go to hell. Christians ARE right, and the Gospels/Bible are strong credibel evidence to support the above.
Wade in :)
God is never wrong, non believers WILL go to hell. Christians ARE right, and the Gospels/Bible are strong credibel evidence to support the above.
Wade in :)
C OF THE REV- That's not a bad summing up . God bless .
If we have free will according to you its Gods willk that we have it,so do you believe in free will?Also I am atheist Sunset I dont believ in deities I said I believe the universe was scientifically created not mystically.I reject the gospels because they say Jesus was gods son-it was bad enough to say you were having a child out of wedlock 60 years ago.imagine what it would have been like 2000 years ago in the so called holy land.Also there is solid evidence that the bible has benn altered through the ages to suit the Catholic church and it is full of contradictions-surely if god exists he is intelligent enough to get things right the first time around.there is far more wisdom in the Eastern religions imo
I think Ill just read this thread now rather than contibute
A wise decision Rafa. He seems to think we all need some sort of help whereas it's plain for all to see (except him apparently) that it's the other way round.
A wise decision Rafa. He seems to think we all need some sort of help whereas it's plain for all to see (except him apparently) that it's the other way round.
Hey Moody, your about to be paraphrased and italice and put in bold, because my friend that was an 'assertion' :)
I can't imagine why. I was addressing you, not him.
What about the Vedic scriptures and the Tibetan book of the dead-if somebody had said they were eyewitness acoounts of things would you hold them in the same regard as the bible sunset?Or do you presume they are lies?
Well you may be right Rafa, but it's pretty rude to eavesdrop and then butt in with an opinion.
He may be many things but I think he's fairly well-mannered so I hope he'll prove you wrong.
He may be many things but I think he's fairly well-mannered so I hope he'll prove you wrong.
Mind you, he did it when I warned you about him a few pages ago so maybe I'm wrong.
I'm sure I shook his hand once. Sweaty & over-rated if I rememnber correctly
How bad does a christian believer have to be to go to hell?
what is the cut off point?
if you kill once then repent is it heaven or hell, twice?
if you kill then serve out your sentence is it heaven or hell
If you steal a million dollars are you more likely to go to hell than if you stole one dollar?
if you are full of sin and die on your way to confession, whats the deal then?, please do not post that god would know and therefore forgive as this scenario would negate confession existing at all!
what is the cut off point?
if you kill once then repent is it heaven or hell, twice?
if you kill then serve out your sentence is it heaven or hell
If you steal a million dollars are you more likely to go to hell than if you stole one dollar?
if you are full of sin and die on your way to confession, whats the deal then?, please do not post that god would know and therefore forgive as this scenario would negate confession existing at all!
Sunset Cristo 06 May 10:28
man of many moods 05 May 11:12
Don't worry Rafa. I'm going to have these recent posts of his removed.
Not got round to yet then?
Oh ye of little faith...
man of many moods 05 May 11:12
Don't worry Rafa. I'm going to have these recent posts of his removed.
Not got round to yet then?
Oh ye of little faith...
I wonder if we will get the missing ones cut and pasted for our benefit? 
man of many moods Joined: 06 Mar 02
Replies: 3374 06 May 10 14:08
Sunset Cristo 06 May 10:28
man of many moods 05 May 11:12
Don't worry Rafa. I'm going to have these recent posts of his removed.
Not got round to yet then?
Oh ye of little faith
I don't have faith in anything you say.
Replies: 3374 06 May 10 14:08
Sunset Cristo 06 May 10:28
man of many moods 05 May 11:12
Don't worry Rafa. I'm going to have these recent posts of his removed.
Not got round to yet then?
Oh ye of little faith
I don't have faith in anything you say.
One of my flaws is that I don't suffer fools gladly. I never have. I just don't have the patience for it. And someone who sets themselves up as an authority on a subject about which they seem to have little grasp or knowledge and feels the need to respond to every single post is in my eyes a fool.
When you come out with nonsense like St John's gospel being an eye-witness account then you just lose all credibility. No-one even knows who wrote it!
The main reason that I haven't entered this discussion properly is because I clearly know a great deal more about religion than you do, having had reason to study it extensively in the past. And trying to discuss it with someone whose only interest and mission in life seems to be to preach their own views whilst rubbishing everyone else's would be pointless and futile.
However…
Others seem happy to bang their head against your brick wall. And you've put a lot of time and effort into your replies.
So, as I'm a nice guy and hate to see all your misguided notions consigned to the cyber bin forever just because you didn't realise that Betfair wasn't going to transfer them to the new forum, I saved all the missing posts to my computer for you.
So if it's important to you and you'd like me to repost them then I will happily do so. If not I'll bin them. I don't care either way. Up to you entirely.
When you come out with nonsense like St John's gospel being an eye-witness account then you just lose all credibility. No-one even knows who wrote it!
The main reason that I haven't entered this discussion properly is because I clearly know a great deal more about religion than you do, having had reason to study it extensively in the past. And trying to discuss it with someone whose only interest and mission in life seems to be to preach their own views whilst rubbishing everyone else's would be pointless and futile.
However…
Others seem happy to bang their head against your brick wall. And you've put a lot of time and effort into your replies.
So, as I'm a nice guy and hate to see all your misguided notions consigned to the cyber bin forever just because you didn't realise that Betfair wasn't going to transfer them to the new forum, I saved all the missing posts to my computer for you.
So if it's important to you and you'd like me to repost them then I will happily do so. If not I'll bin them. I don't care either way. Up to you entirely.
man of many moods Joined: 06 Mar 02
Replies: 3375 06 May 10 17:20
One of my flaws is that I don't suffer fools gladly. I never have.
I guess you give yourself a hard time then
I just don't have the patience for it. And someone who sets themselves up as an authority on a subject about which they seem to have little grasp or knowledge and feels the need to respond to every single post is in my eyes a fool.
So you say. Another baseless assertion. I have never said I am an authority on this subject. You have said that.You say I have little grasp or knowledge of this subject. Feel free to put me in my place. Of course you can't so you will ignore this again. I respond to most posts yes because I don't like to see lies going unanswered. unlike you I don't ignore people when asked a question. That would be rude and ignorant.
When you come out with nonsense like St John's gospel being an eye-witness account then you just lose all credibility. No-one even knows who wrote it!
So you say, No evidence given again. Read John 21:24. See what I did there I quated a primary source document. Have the guts to examine and stop being intellectually dishonest.
The main reason that I haven't entered this discussion properly is because I clearly know a great deal more about religion than you do
LOL
, having had reason to study it extensively in the past. And trying to discuss it with someone whose only interest and mission in life seems to be to preach their own views whilst rubbishing everyone else's would be pointless and futile.
This is your opinion.I only want to debate the facts. This is obviously beyond you.
However…
Others seem happy to bang their head against your brick wall. And you've put a lot of time and effort into your replies.
So, as I'm a nice guy and hate to see all your misguided notions
LOL
consigned to the cyber bin forever just because you didn't realise that Betfair wasn't going to transfer them to the new forum, I saved all the missing posts to my computer for you.
So if it's important to you and you'd like me to repost them then I will happily do so. If not I'll bin them. I don't care either way. Up to you entirely.
Yes if you are going to get involved in the debate and stop ignoring the logical arguments I have put forward.If not then don't bother you are wasting my time.
Replies: 3375 06 May 10 17:20
One of my flaws is that I don't suffer fools gladly. I never have.
I guess you give yourself a hard time then
I just don't have the patience for it. And someone who sets themselves up as an authority on a subject about which they seem to have little grasp or knowledge and feels the need to respond to every single post is in my eyes a fool.
So you say. Another baseless assertion. I have never said I am an authority on this subject. You have said that.You say I have little grasp or knowledge of this subject. Feel free to put me in my place. Of course you can't so you will ignore this again. I respond to most posts yes because I don't like to see lies going unanswered. unlike you I don't ignore people when asked a question. That would be rude and ignorant.
When you come out with nonsense like St John's gospel being an eye-witness account then you just lose all credibility. No-one even knows who wrote it!
So you say, No evidence given again. Read John 21:24. See what I did there I quated a primary source document. Have the guts to examine and stop being intellectually dishonest.
The main reason that I haven't entered this discussion properly is because I clearly know a great deal more about religion than you do
LOL
, having had reason to study it extensively in the past. And trying to discuss it with someone whose only interest and mission in life seems to be to preach their own views whilst rubbishing everyone else's would be pointless and futile.
This is your opinion.I only want to debate the facts. This is obviously beyond you.
However…
Others seem happy to bang their head against your brick wall. And you've put a lot of time and effort into your replies.
So, as I'm a nice guy and hate to see all your misguided notions
LOL
consigned to the cyber bin forever just because you didn't realise that Betfair wasn't going to transfer them to the new forum, I saved all the missing posts to my computer for you.
So if it's important to you and you'd like me to repost them then I will happily do so. If not I'll bin them. I don't care either way. Up to you entirely.
Yes if you are going to get involved in the debate and stop ignoring the logical arguments I have put forward.If not then don't bother you are wasting my time.
Its a negative free roll to call yourself at atheist.
Just call yourself an agnostic in the off chance that he's real.
Just call yourself an agnostic in the off chance that he's real.
Lol Sunset since you love wiki so much loo up the Gospel of St John on there, first few lines of 2nf para in particular.
Also I assert that your a very dismissive and obtuse character
Also I assert that your a very dismissive and obtuse character
I'm sure I posted several times in this thread but I can't seem to find my posts. Anyone else having the same problem?
The new testament is laughable with it's tales of virgin births, loaves and fishes, walking on water, etc.
It's about time human kind woke up and smelled the coffee. God(s) do not exist. If they did, we would all be in no doubt about their existence and there would be no need for this thread.
It's about time human kind woke up and smelled the coffee. God(s) do not exist. If they did, we would all be in no doubt about their existence and there would be no need for this thread.
The answer may be simple, but our specie has yet to know for sure. The logic of our thoughts revolve much around the constraints of the world we live. It limits the degree to which we are able to comprehend. As such, the answers of life, God and universe will always be much beyond our grasp .
Child of the Rafalution Joined: 09 May 07
Replies: 758 06 May 10 18:33
Lol Sunset since you love wiki so much loo up the Gospel of St John on there, first few lines of 2nf para in particular.
Also I assert that your a very dismissive and obtuse character
Is this what you are referring too? It would have been better if you had copied and pasted it instead of letting me do all the work for you again. You do know how to copy and paste don't you?
The Gospel is anonymous, but in chapter 21 it is stated that it derives from the testimony of the 'Disciple whom Jesus loved', whom Early Church tradition identified with John the Apostle, one of Jesus' Twelve Apostles. It is closely related in style and content to the three surviving Epistles of John, such that most commentators routinely treat the four books together.[1]:p.63 Scholarly opinion is divided as to whether these epistles are the work of the evangelist himself, or of his followers writing in his name. The epistles are addressed to a particular but unnamed church community, and most scholars presume that the Gospel too is addressed to the specific circumstances of that community. The evangelist urges his church to beware of internal factions and reject false teaching, and also seeks to strengthen their resolution in the face of hostility and persecution from the Jewish leadership of the synagogue; " ...it is now widely accepted that the discourses are concerned with the actual issues of the church and synagogue debate at the time when the Gospel was written."[1]:p.53 It is notable that, in the gospel, the community still appears to define itself primarily against Judaism, rather than as part of a wider Christian church. Lindars points out that Christianity started as a movement within Judaism, but he says that gradually Christians and Jews became bitterly opposed to one another.[1
If you had bothered to read further down you would have read this.
Internal evidence that the author was the Apostle John
The express testimony of the author states that he is an eyewitness to Jesus and that his testimony is true. The Gospel of John explains that the author is the Disciple whom Jesus loved. In other words, we are told that the disciple giving this account has born true witness. [29]
The text implies that the unnamed author is an apostle. John 21:20–25 contains information that could be construed as autobiographical. Some believe that the first person "I" in verse 25, the disciple in verse 24 and the disciple whom Jesus loved (also known as the Beloved Disciple) in verse 20 are the same person.[30] Critics point out that the abrupt shift from third person to first person in vss. 24–25 indicates that the writers of the epilogue, (who are supposedly third-party editors) claim the preceding narrative is based on the Beloved Disciple's testimony.[31][32]
In the Synoptics, John is close to Peter, the chief apostle, in a way that, in John, the beloved disciple is close to Peter.[33] The consistent omission of John has traditionally been taken as evidence that John authored the Gospel.
Replies: 758 06 May 10 18:33
Lol Sunset since you love wiki so much loo up the Gospel of St John on there, first few lines of 2nf para in particular.
Also I assert that your a very dismissive and obtuse character
Is this what you are referring too? It would have been better if you had copied and pasted it instead of letting me do all the work for you again. You do know how to copy and paste don't you?
The Gospel is anonymous, but in chapter 21 it is stated that it derives from the testimony of the 'Disciple whom Jesus loved', whom Early Church tradition identified with John the Apostle, one of Jesus' Twelve Apostles. It is closely related in style and content to the three surviving Epistles of John, such that most commentators routinely treat the four books together.[1]:p.63 Scholarly opinion is divided as to whether these epistles are the work of the evangelist himself, or of his followers writing in his name. The epistles are addressed to a particular but unnamed church community, and most scholars presume that the Gospel too is addressed to the specific circumstances of that community. The evangelist urges his church to beware of internal factions and reject false teaching, and also seeks to strengthen their resolution in the face of hostility and persecution from the Jewish leadership of the synagogue; " ...it is now widely accepted that the discourses are concerned with the actual issues of the church and synagogue debate at the time when the Gospel was written."[1]:p.53 It is notable that, in the gospel, the community still appears to define itself primarily against Judaism, rather than as part of a wider Christian church. Lindars points out that Christianity started as a movement within Judaism, but he says that gradually Christians and Jews became bitterly opposed to one another.[1
If you had bothered to read further down you would have read this.
Internal evidence that the author was the Apostle John
The express testimony of the author states that he is an eyewitness to Jesus and that his testimony is true. The Gospel of John explains that the author is the Disciple whom Jesus loved. In other words, we are told that the disciple giving this account has born true witness. [29]
The text implies that the unnamed author is an apostle. John 21:20–25 contains information that could be construed as autobiographical. Some believe that the first person "I" in verse 25, the disciple in verse 24 and the disciple whom Jesus loved (also known as the Beloved Disciple) in verse 20 are the same person.[30] Critics point out that the abrupt shift from third person to first person in vss. 24–25 indicates that the writers of the epilogue, (who are supposedly third-party editors) claim the preceding narrative is based on the Beloved Disciple's testimony.[31][32]
In the Synoptics, John is close to Peter, the chief apostle, in a way that, in John, the beloved disciple is close to Peter.[33] The consistent omission of John has traditionally been taken as evidence that John authored the Gospel.
FujiyamaDumptruck Joined: 15 Mar 10
Replies: 61 07 May 10 00:20
I'm sure I posted several times in this thread but I can't seem to find my posts. Anyone else having the same problem
I will answer your question because the militant atheists won't because they are rude and ignorant. I keep asking them questions, but get not reply and then I get fasly accused of being dismissive. It's laughable.The reason they have disapeared is because of the migration over to the new forum. All the messages posted on May the 5th are gone.man of many moods said
Don't worry Rafa. I'm going to have these recent posts of his removed.
He lied. He has not had them removed. If any posts are missing it is because of the migration .Nothing to do with man of many moods.
Replies: 61 07 May 10 00:20
I'm sure I posted several times in this thread but I can't seem to find my posts. Anyone else having the same problem
I will answer your question because the militant atheists won't because they are rude and ignorant. I keep asking them questions, but get not reply and then I get fasly accused of being dismissive. It's laughable.The reason they have disapeared is because of the migration over to the new forum. All the messages posted on May the 5th are gone.man of many moods said
Don't worry Rafa. I'm going to have these recent posts of his removed.
He lied. He has not had them removed. If any posts are missing it is because of the migration .Nothing to do with man of many moods.
Get me a drink Joined: 25 Oct 03
Replies: 120 07 May 10 03:38
The new testament is laughable with it's tales of virgin births, loaves and fishes, walking on water, etc.
So you say. Do you think quantum theory is laughable as well? We live in a spooky world. Get used to it.
It's about time human kind woke up and smelled the coffee. God(s) do not exist. If they did, we would all be in no doubt about their existence and there would be no need for this thread.
Oh right so unless everyone believes in something it does not exist.lol.I guess you don't know that most people used to think that the earth was the centre of the universe.Now we know better. So according to your logic the earth did used to be the centre of the universe . And people say christians are irrational.Bob Hope and no hope.
Replies: 120 07 May 10 03:38
The new testament is laughable with it's tales of virgin births, loaves and fishes, walking on water, etc.
So you say. Do you think quantum theory is laughable as well? We live in a spooky world. Get used to it.
It's about time human kind woke up and smelled the coffee. God(s) do not exist. If they did, we would all be in no doubt about their existence and there would be no need for this thread.
Oh right so unless everyone believes in something it does not exist.lol.I guess you don't know that most people used to think that the earth was the centre of the universe.Now we know better. So according to your logic the earth did used to be the centre of the universe . And people say christians are irrational.Bob Hope and no hope.
rink rat Joined: 09 Feb 05
Replies: 833 07 May 10 07:51
The answer may be simple, but our specie has yet to know for sure. The logic of our thoughts revolve much around the constraints of the world we live. It limits the degree to which we are able to comprehend. As such, the answers of life, God and universe will always be much beyond our grasp .
This is true to some extent. There is much we don't know.But from what we do know we can make an educated guess and that evidence points to God's existance.
Replies: 833 07 May 10 07:51
The answer may be simple, but our specie has yet to know for sure. The logic of our thoughts revolve much around the constraints of the world we live. It limits the degree to which we are able to comprehend. As such, the answers of life, God and universe will always be much beyond our grasp .
This is true to some extent. There is much we don't know.But from what we do know we can make an educated guess and that evidence points to God's existance.
erm SC am I to understand that because the author is a self proclaimed eye witness then you believe it?
If I wrote that I was JC would you believe it because I had made the claim? The Gospel is highly debateable, it MAY have been written by whom you claim, but there is at the very least considerable doubt. Your a funny one.
And why would Quantum Physics be laughable?
If I wrote that I was JC would you believe it because I had made the claim? The Gospel is highly debateable, it MAY have been written by whom you claim, but there is at the very least considerable doubt. Your a funny one.
And why would Quantum Physics be laughable?
Child of the Rafalution Joined: 09 May 07
Replies: 770 07 May 10 15:02
erm SC am I to understand that because the author is a self proclaimed eye witness then you believe it?
Yes why shouldn't I .Josephus and Tacitus and other ancient historians reported on things that they didn't eyewitness and they are believed so why shouldn't we believe John?
If I wrote that I was JC would you believe it because I had made the claim?
You are comparing apples and oranges again. Militant atheists do this alot I've noticed.
No because you are not an eyewitness to any miracles and have performed any miracles. If you were willing to die for what you claim to have seen then I would believe you. Are you willing to do that.
The Gospel is highly debateable, it MAY have been written by whom you claim, but there is at the very least considerable doubt.
So you say. You have provided not evidence for your belief yet again.
Your a funny one.
Not as funny as you. You said the other day that you had done with this thread. I guess you making decisions and sticking to them are not your strong point.
And why would Quantum Physics be laughable?
You don't know much about Quantum Physics do you? If you did you would know that it is very weird. I didn't say laughable.Atoms can be in two places at the same time and according to quantum Theory it is possible to walk throw a wall. It's called quantum tunnelling. So yes miracles can happen.
Replies: 770 07 May 10 15:02
erm SC am I to understand that because the author is a self proclaimed eye witness then you believe it?
Yes why shouldn't I .Josephus and Tacitus and other ancient historians reported on things that they didn't eyewitness and they are believed so why shouldn't we believe John?
If I wrote that I was JC would you believe it because I had made the claim?
You are comparing apples and oranges again. Militant atheists do this alot I've noticed.
No because you are not an eyewitness to any miracles and have performed any miracles. If you were willing to die for what you claim to have seen then I would believe you. Are you willing to do that.
The Gospel is highly debateable, it MAY have been written by whom you claim, but there is at the very least considerable doubt.
So you say. You have provided not evidence for your belief yet again.
Your a funny one.
Not as funny as you. You said the other day that you had done with this thread. I guess you making decisions and sticking to them are not your strong point.
And why would Quantum Physics be laughable?
You don't know much about Quantum Physics do you? If you did you would know that it is very weird. I didn't say laughable.Atoms can be in two places at the same time and according to quantum Theory it is possible to walk throw a wall. It's called quantum tunnelling. So yes miracles can happen.
Does a watch prove the existence of a watchmaker? Evidently some who have posted on this thread think not!
"Since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities - his eternal power and divine nature - have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse." (Romans 1:19-20)
"Since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities - his eternal power and divine nature - have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse." (Romans 1:19-20)
Owmybrainhurtz Joined: 18 Jul 03
Replies: 67 07 May 10 22:45
Does a watch prove the existence of a watchmaker? Evidently some who have posted on this thread think not!
"Since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities - his eternal power and divine nature - have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse." (Romans 1:19-20)
No doubt the deluded milatant atheists will think that Dawkins debunked this one in the Blind Watch Maker.He
didn't . Evoultion explains nothing about the order in the universe only the evolution of life on this planet. It doesn't explain how life got started .This is Abiogenesis.Any one that is sincerly interested in what we have been discussing on this thread should read Evidence that demands a verdict by Josh Mcdowell. Is God a Delusion?: What is the Evidence? by Nicky Gumbel and There is a God by Anthony Flew to name a few.
Replies: 67 07 May 10 22:45
Does a watch prove the existence of a watchmaker? Evidently some who have posted on this thread think not!
"Since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities - his eternal power and divine nature - have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse." (Romans 1:19-20)
No doubt the deluded milatant atheists will think that Dawkins debunked this one in the Blind Watch Maker.He
didn't . Evoultion explains nothing about the order in the universe only the evolution of life on this planet. It doesn't explain how life got started .This is Abiogenesis.Any one that is sincerly interested in what we have been discussing on this thread should read Evidence that demands a verdict by Josh Mcdowell. Is God a Delusion?: What is the Evidence? by Nicky Gumbel and There is a God by Anthony Flew to name a few.
I used to .. until I didn't do .. and then I wasn't sure anymore .. now I just think he's a c00nt 
Nobody knows.
Some think not, some hope there is whilst others claim absolute certainty.
It's the latter thinkers that I feel sorry for.
Some think not, some hope there is whilst others claim absolute certainty.
It's the latter thinkers that I feel sorry for.
people are so self centered & wonder where We all came from .. what about the millions of different species of animals , insects etc .. who invented all them 
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