Chit Chat
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26 Feb 10
16:57
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25 Mar 04
Ive had my fair share of kicks playing snooker, far fewer incidences when playing pool though - always assumed it was a chalk issue (I would have immediately discounted this if I'd heard this from the mouth of Dennis Taylor obviously)
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i see something years ago, with Steve Davis actually, that explained it was chaulk on the object ball that was the main cause. not the white as most think...
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i see something years ago, with Steve Davis actually, that explained it was chaulk on the object ball that was the main cause. not the white as most think...
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A speck of anything on eiither ball on the point of contact. No point cleaning afterwards or before, it is just random. Look in a beam of light coming shining through a window, you will see clouds of crap in the air.
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Good evening gentlemen. :)
The second reason, besides chalk, for the unfortunate effect known as a kick is the fact that the cueball is airborne when it strikes the colour. In my estimation, the percentage of kicks caused by a foreign body between the balls (probably a speck of chalk dust) and the explanation stated above is about equal. |
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Dealem - I saw that too. Davis thought it might have been static electricity, but he was proved wrong. Evening Poker :)
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Good evening Alex. :)
How are you sir? |
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airborn ,really PM? I've seen dolly slow rolls be kicked mate? It really is a conundrum!
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It is surprising isn't it Brodie!
I have come to this conclusion, however, after studying the snooker balls in ultra slow motion using specialist camera equipment. On super-fine cloths it only takes the slightest of downward blows to get the cueball airborne; imperceptable to the naked eye of course, but the white is actually bouncing in far more shots than you would possibly imagine. You know how the commentators always mention (and show in slo-mo) when the cueball or colour jumps at the precise moment it kicks? Well, these are the instances when the white was airborne (as opposed to the chalk-induced kicks). If the cueball strikes the colour on its downward trajectory, the colour jumps. If it strikes it on an upward trajectory, the white jumps. |
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The kicks suffered on the dolly slow rolls you mention, sir, are of course caused by chalk.
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Yep, theres a combination of factors on various shots. Now that is frustrating!
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I must admit I was expecting another debate to match the topspin discussion.
This is obviously not such a contentious (or interesting) issue. :) |
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Isn't it something to do with oil or some greasy minuscule substance that is caused by the heat of the lights?
I think the balls should be replaced every frame and the old ones put in a sterilizer. |
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Well bloody hell I do apologize. I'll come up with a written thesis tomorrow, how many words is acceptable?!
Just kidding, beer influenced pm, i'll come up with some physics/thought in the morn ;) :D |
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Any foreign body between the balls as they collide can cause a kick, Mr Nibbs.
As to whether the lights and the heat they generate has a hand in encouraging such a situation, I'd be bound to admit the possibility, yes sir. |
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No, no Brodie, I wasn't referring to you sir. :)
I just meant there are far fewer contributors this evening than took part in my last snooker discussion. |
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oh..........give it time my son give it time :D
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Here you go poker, a special BBC Panorama investigation video.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/player/sol/newsid_4960000/newsid_4961300/4961300.stm?bw=bb&mp=wm&news=1&ms3=6&ms_javascript=true&bbcws=2 |
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That's excellent Mr Nibbs, I've never seen that clip before. Thank you sir. :)
I cannot hear the audio at the moment, unfortuantely, but will rectify that problem tomorrow morning. Can you tell me if it touches upon my theory at all? |
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What they did was hit a ball on a table with no chalk and no static (they took the electric off with some alcoholic based solution) and they got a kick straight away.
The theory is that some oil used in the production of the cloth is causing the kick. |
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I see, thank you.
Were they inferring that chalk never causes a kick? Because that would be plainly wrong. There are a few well-known trickshots that rely on chalk-induced kicks (you rub some on the object ball) and such a practice can be relied upon to achieve the desired result. |
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An interesting test with John Parrott and Martin Clarke. No doubt whatsoever that the chalk caused the cueball to bounce further. And I like the fact that they used a stimpmeter to guarantee a fair control of weight.
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cheers mr nibbs, very interesting. I definitely think its time they develeoped a special chalk for snooker/pool which doesn´t leave debris around. Personally I always play with a soft chalk as I find hard chalks crumble rather than smear. My regular opponent uses a harder chalk and often gets kicks and miscues...though it could be that he is just carp.
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Were they inferring that chalk never causes a kick?
They didn't categorically imply that no, just that they could get an instant kick without chalk and static electricity. Although presumably that means they are taking chalk out of the equation. The science bloke thinks its something to do with the cloth, an oil used in cutting the cloth. |
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I see. Very interesting Mr Nibbs. Thank you again sir.
Goodnight gentlemen. :) |
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HOW COME NOBODY COMPLAINS OF KICKS or cleans the white ball in a pub game?
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HTH
Brodie 27 Feb 00:16 Pokermonster, the answer imo is static. Accounts for kicks when screw has been applied AND when the ref has rubbed the cueball clean and it STILL kicks. Static attracts cue dust and its kick city! Send me a cheque sooooon! |
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An interesting thread Poker.
My experience of "kicks" usually occurs when I hit a stun-run through. Routine pinks off the spot being the worst offenders. |
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Haven't read all the posts above but for what it's worth my opinion is that no one thing causes a kick. Recently at the Crondon Park event the commentators were waxing lyrical about the outrageous amount of kicks the players were having, it was obvious that the players were actually having a laugh about it. It was freezing cold outside with heating up to the max so no doubt these two combining forces caused some atmospheric turbulence. I remember the first couple of days of the Grand Prix last year being similar, it was as though the room took a few days to properly acclimatise - the venue is huge and I don't think that helps. A venue which is compact and properly insulated like the Crucible will usually I would say make kicks far fewer. Of course, the chalk bit doesn't help and on the modern cloths the chalk tends to hang around longer which is why you often see players sweeping their hands across the table. In the case of Ryan Day it has become something of a ritual. Anyway, that's my two-penneth. I didn't know snooker discussions took place on here, thanks to GVG for pointing it out. If anyone is interested in betting on snooker or just the game in general my contribution is at snookerbacker.com
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Thanks for you reply SB. The thanks should go to Poker.
He's the one who raises these issues. Despite Pokers amusing tale about a snooker quiz, we like a bit of snooks on chit-chat :) |
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yes its the chalk on cue ...when it hits the precise same spot on the ball from a previous shot.....some players chalk excessively......like hendry...others like higgins or ronnie lightly chalk..in the upcoming world champs ..watch who chalks cue heaviest...will get most kicks.
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Thank you for your contributions, gentlemen. :)
The general consensus appears to suggest that there a several contributory factors to a kick: chalk, light, heat, static attracting dust, a bobbling cueball etc. |
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And many thanks for the link to your website, Snookerbacker. I'll save it in the favourites list, sir.
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Thanks PM. I've posted up a preview this morning on the qualifiers for the Crucible which get under way today for anyone that is interested. Sborting have priced them up and there are trading opportunities on here. It's at snookerbacker.com
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Has John Virgo been reading my threads? :)
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Pokermonster 27 Feb 00:33
It is surprising isn't it Brodie! I have come to this conclusion, however, after studying the snooker balls in ultra slow motion using specialist camera equipment. On super-fine cloths it only takes the slightest of downward blows to get the cueball airborne; imperceptable to the naked eye of course, but the white is actually bouncing in far more shots than you would possibly imagine. You know how the commentators always mention (and show in slo-mo) when the cueball or colour jumps at the precise moment it kicks? Well, these are the instances when the white was airborne (as opposed to the chalk-induced kicks). If the cueball strikes the colour on its downward trajectory, the colour jumps. If it strikes it on an upward trajectory, the white jumps. |
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I think it's caused by grease coming from the players' hands on to the cloth and from there on to the cue ball.
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never knew john travolta played the game
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the best post ive ever read on here is that kicks are caused by crumbs left by stephen lee
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Quite a few kicks again this year.
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