ffs, sacked on Sunday. What's the odds on that?

threadstopper :D

Having been in a position of trying to sack an employee and do it in a manor that was in the company's best interest, .ie. legally, I learned that it is virtually impossible to sack anyone without it being automatically deemed unfair dismissal.

It is the employers duty to show that the dismissal was fair and that involves having gone through the verbal and written warning process, right to representation and programs to help the individual deal with any issues that may have been affecting his performance. For instance, if the employee was unfit to work due to being drunk, did the employer offer addiction counciling before dismissal?

Redundancy and gross misconduct are about the only two reasons for instant dismissal and defining gross misconduct is not clear cut. Theft (proven) and violent assault might just get the employer off the hook, but little else.

In my experience, from what you have said, you have been unfairly dismissed, without any doubt. As a result you are entitled to full pay whilst seeking new employment and probably a lump sum payment as compensation.

Get proper legal advice asap and hope he just doesn't 'go bust'.

budvar 04 Jan 15:03


Having been in a position of trying to sack an employee and do it in a manor that was in the company's best interest, .ie. legally, I learned that it is virtually impossible to sack anyone without it being automatically deemed unfair dismissal.

It is the employers duty to show that the dismissal was fair and that involves having gone through the verbal and written warning process, right to representation and programs to help the individual deal with any issues that may have been affecting his performance. For instance, if the employee was unfit to work due to being drunk, did the employer offer addiction counciling before dismissal?

Redundancy and gross misconduct are about the only two reasons for instant dismissal and defining gross misconduct is not clear cut. Theft (proven) and violent assault might just get the employer off the hook, but little else.

In my experience, from what you have said, you have been unfairly dismissed, without any doubt. As a result you are entitled to full pay whilst seeking new employment and probably a lump sum payment as compensation.

Get proper legal advice asap and hope he just doesn't 'go bust'.



.........Ive been Director of some pretty big companies and the above advice is pretty smart

There are plenty of specialist solicitors in this field who will give you a free initial consultation ..some do no win / no fee (not necessarily best option)

Act now and decisively and go straight for solicitor option ... based on the info you have provided, you are a 'shoe in' if it goes to a Tribunal

Good luck (could be the best thing to happen to you)

I would also re-iterate the above - your case sounds good, and (and this is speaking from an e'ee background) I agree that the law and/or the approach of most tribunals is quite claimant friendly.

Get as much advice as you can, but if you can't find a good solicitor/employment adviser to take it on, don't be afraid to run the case yourself. Tribunals are accustomed to this, and as legal aid is very limited in employment, and most people don't want to pay privately unless the case is worth a lot, then many claimants represent themselves. I've certainly known cases where the claimant has got more (or as much) at ET than they would have done with representation as they have organised their case well and the tribunal panel has cut them a bit of slack.

the other thing to note though (mentioned above) is the risk of e'er going bankrupt or just disappearing. Man of straw etc. Worth digging around to find out who you are dealing with before embarking on the claim.

He can do it and he has

No one has mentioned the Statutory Grievance Procedure. We have your side of the story which is briefly given and told as you want to tell it. Having sat on Tribunals I can tell you that there are always two perspectives on the same facts so that the Panel has to decide which is the more accurate perspective ON THE BALANCE OF PROBABILITY. Basically, who do we believe! It is also surprising what material is discovered in the preparation and hearing process.

From what has been written and provided there has been no history, it seems you have the bones of a sound case and, as advised, you should talk to an employment lawyer. (Costs are covered by the employer if he loses; if you lose you bear your own costs. You can also represent yourself. (Also, since justice must be seen to be done, you can sit in on Industrial Tribunal hearings. I suggest you do so for education and entertainment (though a spectator can miss out on much of the detail, which is usually found in the documentation).

A key thing is that the Tribunal is asking itself if the employer has acted reasonably. For example, if money has gone misisng and all the evidence points at you but there is no proof that you took it, you can be reasonably dismissed. However, that reasonableness requires a fair investigation and the right of appeal. I have sat on a case with video evidence of the theft and found the employee unfairly dismissed! Because the employer did not follow due process.

guys thanx 4 all your messages not feeling 2 good at moment.
do not deserve this treatment.
goodnite
god bless
little geof

what you need to look at is sections of the employment rights act.

(Employment Rights Act 1996 s.87, ERA 1996 s.88)

Quite simple to understand, actually getting employers to comply can be a bit more challenging.

3 Years service is worth shillings even if you have a case i am afraid .

plus upto 50% more if you claim in employment tribual as they have the power to award extra as compensation. (and then can award upto 50%less also)

geofjudge 04 Jan 11:54
new employer only took over very profitable shop on sept 1st 2009 previous employer solld it to him for a chunk.
=============
Did your old contract of employment cease (ie:- you were paid off per your rights )...or did the new owner just take over your contract on a continuing basis ..which means your length of service also continued..
What written letter were you given at handover ?
A new starting employment contract ??...If it IS that , then a NEW employee used to be able to be sacked without reason up to 2 years after starting new job .

I assume if he has recently taken over your old firm you are covered by TUPE which means he has taken on the terms and conditions that you had with the previous owner. This covers pay, working hours , pension and any holidays that you have acrued.For dismissal you are entitiled to full notice period and a reason for the dismissal .If they have dismissed you because your position is no longer needed they are not allowed to employ someone to do the job that you were doing for a year( it may have changed from 1 year). I would still go for unfair dismissal.

But you're not Geof!?! You're wonder wolves. Confused......

Go get em tiger for all they're worth :)

thanks study you are a top man i will buy you a good drink one day.