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Cheltenham Festival
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13 Feb 23
13:16
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Date Joined:
04 Dec 06
With too many races at the festival now leading to some weak races. Which are the ones you believe should be shelved?
Mine would be;
The Boodles.
Martin Pipe
Bumper.
Turners.
Ryanair.
NH Chase. (In its current format)
Mine would be;
The Boodles.
Martin Pipe
Bumper.
Turners.
Ryanair.
NH Chase. (In its current format)
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Replies: 61
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The NH chase no longer has the point that it once had. It was primarily for point to point and late maturing (and slow) horses ridden by amateurs and I quite enjoyed it when a reliable pointer won at big odds as the Irish 6yos that had been kept for the race and backed off the boards fell on the first circuit. Oh for another Fuzzy Logic!
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Now the winners of the race are prominent in the betting for subsequent Gold Cups
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It is just another novice chase now, giving more options for trainers.
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No make the meeting Six days. Make it the absolute jewel in the crown it deserves to be at that time of year. We can have the novice championship hurdle final, ladies hurdle, chase and bumper, bring back the novice handicap chase, thrown in a qualifying race over two miles (actually a mares bumper as well), bring back the Cathcart and mildn@y of flete to the original way, a celebrity bumper,, a charity sweepstakes, have the Gold Cup on the final day on a Sunday, have the first day on what was the park course, with the crescendo being on Friday/Saturday/Sunday. Move the Midlands National to an alternative slot with a bonus pot, not only is everyone happy, the true winner will be British racing as they will maybe have an opportunity to win a race
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Why would you want to get rid of the bumper ?
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Jim, only because I think it is a waste of a season for a horse to spend a whole campaign going for this race.
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- Cross Country - There isn't the program to support this race at a championship meeting.
- Turners - Pertemps - The whole qualifying set-up encourages cheating. Scrap it, or make it a standard open handicap. - Plate - Every Cheltenham meeting has a 2 1/2 m handicap chase. Strengthen those by scrapping this. - Mares Nov Hurdle - Not needed - at that stage, these horses should be running in the Supreme/Ballymore/Triumph - Kim Muir - Nobody needs a consolation race for the Ultima, and the Festival does not need three amateur races. - Pipe - A consolation race for the Coral Cup. Also, I'd restructure the NH Chase - make it open to all jockeys and push it back to 4 m. Do that, you get a lovely three-day Festival. |
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PS - I'd also bring back the proper names for the Vincent O'Brien County Hurdle and the Fred Winter Juvenile Handicap Hurdle. It's disgraceful that these great names of the sport are binned for tin-pot, gone tomorrow, sponsorships.
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Strontium
They have even changed the name of the arkle bar  |
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Fair point brandy .
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Martin pipe is staying finding the G1 horse is easier than you think,you just have to remove those rose tinted ones HTH
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2 1/2M Nov' Chse.
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I wouldn’t get rid of anything. I think you lot are forgetting how hard it was to pick any winners when it was 3 days. At least six or seven 25/1 or bigger winners in the old format. The only guaranteed winning bet was Ireland to have under 4 winners. How things have changed.
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I'd get rid of the Champion Hurdle, in recent years it has been a terrible drain on the Mares Hurdle.
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You don't have to watch or bet on every race. Have a break, go for a walk. I would probably scratch the last race on Friday, I will have had enough by then.
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There is a very valid case for making the meeting six days, running Tuesday to having the Gold Cup on Sunday. Then the English can have a winner can’t they?
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Hibore - I can (try to) pick winners at any old meeting. At the Festival, I want to see the best horses (and jockeys) racing against each other.
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But the trainers and owners don't and they have to pay the bills. We need appearance money for the winners of key trials to encourage more to contest the main races at Cheltenham and Aintree.
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Correct, Stront.
4 novice hurdles is ridiculous. 4 novice chases giving trainers too much choice. A novice hurdle for juveniles!!! Why??? Duplicate handicaps. |
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Meant to say.....
Handicap for juveniles!!!!! |
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Revamped Cheltenham festival
Day one. Tuesday. Park course Fred Winter Hurdle, Pertemps Final, ladies Champion Hurdle, Kim Muir/Fulke Walwyn, conditionals gold cup, mares bumper Day two. Wednesday Park course Coral cup, military hurdle, mildmay of flete chase, Grand annual chase, ladies cross country, amateurs x country, conditionals bumper final Day three Thursday Old course Ladies champion hurdle, rsa chase, rsa hurdle, x country, dawn run hurdle, novices handicap chase, national hunt chase, champion bumper Day four Friday Old course Supreme novice hurdle, Arkle chase, Champion hurdle, handicap chase, queen mother chase, Military chase final (bonus race for royal artillery/grand military races), amateur bumper Day Five Saturday New course Triumph Hurdle, Albert Bartlett, Martin pipe hurdle, stayers hurdle, Ryanair chase), mares chase, charity sweepstakes (legends/celebrities) Day Six Sunday Foxhunters, gold cup, Road to Cheltenham Final chase, Road to Cheltenham Hurdle Final, Cathcart chase (tinkered format), nhs hurdle series final, country hurdle. That would be in keeping with traditional festival ways, providing more opportunities for horses where they have options limited, but by also raising the profile of certain races, the benefits are there to be had. |
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I think another interesting innovation would be to scrap the current handicapping system and instead instill a new system where jockeys are handicapped on how many times they use the whip.
Each race would see horses inserted into an individual stall with the jockey who has an aggregate of fewer strikes being sat out front at the beginning of the race, this would further encourage the jockeys to stop the brutality they are currently inflicting on their mounts. |
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Correct Brandy, although technically the Triumph and Winter are 4 yo hurdles - the horses don't have to be novices, and some will have won hurdles in France that mean they are not.
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strontium 16 Feb 23 11:00
Hibore - I can (try to) pick winners at any old meeting. At the Festival, I want to see the best horses (and jockeys) racing against each other. So you think horses should fall into the 2mile or 3mile 2 furlong category? Ryanair and Turners were welcome introduction’s to the festival. Also handicaps for the 4 year olds. These races allow horses to run under their best conditions rather than trying to adapt to the 3 day festival. I take you would prefer Allaho running the last two years in the Gold Cup ? To me that is a shame as he’s been one of the highlights of the festival. |
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;^^^^caught you in the net(which I reckon was the point)the other is mares Nov on Thursday
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Champion Chase (this year); Ryanair; Bumper; Mares (novice); Mares Chase.
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How many competitive Ryanairs can you recall, Hib?
Allaho has danced in the last 2 years. |
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Hibore - I wouldn't touch the Ryanair, I think it's often a terrific race. It inevitably weakens the Gold Cup and Champion Chase, at least in terms of field size, but mostly by filtering out horses that are two slow for one and won't stay the other. There are some exceptions - I'd like to have seen Vautor run in the Gold Cup.
However, I would bin the Turners. At that (novice) stage, trip preferences are less clear and shouldn't necessarily get pandered to. I don't see any compelling reason why novices shouldn't run in the Arkle or the RSA. |
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I'd also dump the mare's weight allowance for the open grade 1s. Now there is a dedicated mares' hurdle (G1) and mares' chase (bound to be G1 within the next couple of years), the weight allowance they get against geldings is unsustainable. If connections want to run against geldings, they should do so off level weights.
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I wouldn’t get rid of the Turners at all. Why make Novices run faster than they would want or try to stay further than they will in the future. Everyone wants a Gold Cup winner so I understand the argument for trying 3 miles (Allaho tried unsuccessfully), but Mighty Potter or Banbridge would get beat in both Arkle or Brown Advisory. The Turners / Ryanair are specialist distances and they are first and second favs.
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Everyone must have a sweetie.
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The race that could be removed is the 3 mile novice chase which can be a clue to a great chaser in the making but more often it bottoms good horses who never win much again. I remember Bob Turnell way back saying that Buona Notte, probably the best horse he trained, never got over the RSA as it then was although he appeared to win comfortably. The real one pacers can run in the 3 mile 6 furlongs but the future Gold Cup horses are better off in the Turners.
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How many JLT/TURNERS winner's have won the gold cup bearing in mind there's only been 12 renewals
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Wouldn't agree with that, Sage.
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The National Hunt Chase bottoms out a lot of horses
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In recent years the 3 mile novice chase the sun alliance chase didn’t do any harm to
Looks like trouble Denman Alberta’s run Florida pearl Lord Windermere Al boom photo Bobsworth And probably quite a few more |
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The race I would like to see go would be the turners that said only a couple of years ago it produced the race of the meeting with samcro,melon and faugheen.
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Don't forget Minella Indo and Allaho
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Yes Duffy good call those two also long run and comply or die
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