champion chase 2023

editeur du gite been supplemented for the clarence house .

No problemo - I firmly believe - for Energumene given Shishkin is a non-event. This Cheltenham is so unappealing (Constitution Hill apart) to me - antepost stinks - that I'm already yearning for the commencement of the Flat. Could DRF replace Cheltenham in the near future given the ever-growing dominance of the Irish battalion?

You guys are not giving up already are you? What happened to the bulldog spirit?

giving up ? ive been lumping on both editeur and nube neg

Bull-dog spirit? It's almost impossible to put a decent bet on - the prices stink. If successful (highly unlikely) the bookies will ask for id verification; instigate AC; refuse payment until. Then, probably close one's account as a result.

What is the point when there are alternative betting avenues? I sincerely hope post the publication of the delayed White Paper a new Gaming/Betting Act is enacted to differentiate between sports like horseracing/football/tennis - a game of skill and intellect, and casino games - merely chance no intellect or skill.

I do not care what happen to the BHA - they have been found to be professionally lacking and not batting for the sport of horseracing.

can get bets on but its in dribs and drabs scores tenners at a time and as  its ante post have plenty of time to get on  and use a few local shops slys have shut me down but no problem as i am over 2k up with them and shutting me down means they will never get it back .

Bookies should never be allowed to refuse a bet otherwise take up another profession. Have they not heard of hedging?

I remember when the main street bookies used to haves signs up saying maximum win was £10k. No limit on how much you could gamble though.

It's a business.
If someone is continually winning I can understand a bookmaker not wanting to take them on.
It is when they refuse a bet when you are not winning, but just because of the sort of bet it is, is what I find wrong.

I take your point about t being a business, but they don't ban people for gambling too much. Instead they leave the limit to the punter to decide, who by and large, will just ignore them. A bit like the current controversy about it being easer to join a site, than it is to withdraw money from it. I was banned by sly from entering their promotions because I was winning them too much,but I could still bet ordinary, as I was down money overall. What is fair about that?

On-course bookies regularly hedged, why not high street ones? It's being done daily and easily. I think the present "bookies" aka lazy turf accountants with no interest in the sport merely easy profit from fobt - ought to be stripped of their licence for betting/gaming.

Also, the overall winnings from a few (lucky) punters is not comparable to the colossal profit bookies make annually; supermarkets have loss-leaders, why bookies be any different? Indeed, easy to join a bookie and deposit money; withdrawal  usually problematic and near impossible at times with some.

I'd have thought a contract is established between parties once a deposit and a bet are accepted.

decent performance from the editeur today

Great race Foyles.

First 2 done themselves proud.

yeah brandy a great race  he showed good battling qualitys both him and edwards thankfully had a decent bet on the editeur today he goes to the champ chase with a  realistic chance

that race was a grinder up the hill and will take a lot out of the pair of them
willie's overjumped a couple and that was enough
you cant afford to baloon too many fences at prestbury
now for the hype , willies one may be the value now

still think nube negra is a great price at 25s nrnb goodish ground and the break he should be fresh.

would imagine editeur du gite will go up around 6 or 7 pound for that

watched the race again a few times and the winner has jumped superbly what was telling was the pace he showed just before the turn in, quickened a bit and it was going to be difficult for the others to make the ground up if he kept on, whether he can do it again at the fes we will see but  he is a serious  contender for the champion  on his last 2 showings .

I think Editeur is still underestimated despite winning fairly and squarely today; I cannot see the runner-up reverse placing here. As for Energumene I must admit I was disappointed. A better round of jumping plus a change in tactic in March could decide his fate here.

that wasnt energumene today.
hes balooned two and got too close on many of the fences
the horse didnt settle
his jumping was nothing like what we have seen before
11\4 and drifting now

Edwardstone will win this year's Chmpn Chse.

Edwardstone didn't jump well enough early on through the steady pace, he was also keen at various points, he improved as the race progressed and when they raced proper late was when he jumped best, however with the winner being allowed to set a stop start pace Edwardstone had too much ground to make up which cost him at the end as he flattened out after the big effort,with the winner saving a bit from being allowed to set a steady pace.

The winner won't get away with it again, as we now know if we didn't already, that Energumene has to go out and win his race by pounding the others into submission, not be ridden for a turn of foot, this was the copycat mistake they made with Chacun Pour Soi the year he was supposed to win the CC. The issue for Mullins though is that an end to end gallop will suit Edwardstone, reckon he comes out of this race today with most credit in relation to the Champion Chase.

I have to agree with Irish. If energumene had jumped the last, instead of going through it, he would have been upside Edwardstone. I am not saying he would have won, I don't believe he would have. But a change of tactics like taking the lead and work on his jumping and we will see a much different race in March.

if my aunt had balls !  seems anytime a fav or fancied horse gets beat then the excuses are rolled out not saying energumene or edwardstone wont win the champion they are 1st and 2nd favs to do so . as i pointed out on the horse racing forum yesterday energumene has looked the real deal beating trees and saplings ok he won the champ chase ? what did he beat funambola sivola ...then beat a washed up chacan pour soir  at punchestown ,this season he beats more trees in ireland and he is odds on for the champ chase till he meets decent horses in the clarence house . edwardstone would be my pick of the 2 at the head of the market  but quite happy with editeur de gite and especially nube negra going forward.

Energumene was just touched-off by Shishkin at Ascot. Maybe that race had affected these two horses just like it had Altior and Cyrname.

But. take nothing away from the winner. He was gutsy and deserved the victory. Edwardstone? I ain't sure. I'd rather have Editeur or Energumene (with a change of tactic).

changed the boards to white at cheltenham

willie still has orange

good job they came over

"Hopefully that run will get him used to the new English white fences, we’ve schooled over them at home but he didn’t seem as happy over them today as he did last March. You saw what he did at the first and he was a little bit long at one or two. It’s different and I didn’t expect him to be that way as he’d done plenty of schooling, but he obviously did."

ah thanks for clearing that up irish didnt hear willies comments tbh.

any excuse at this stage ....lol. !

what yesterdays result has done is opened this right up and others will fancy their  chances of toppling the 2 at the front of the market ,all to play for !

could it be that editeur de gites jumping and pace /change of pace slowing and quickening caused the jumping mistakes  and positioning of energumene and edwardstone he jumped superbly wasnt put off by the tizzard horse being close to him ,then the injection of pace on the turn in to 2 out made it difficult for those behind , energumene wont find it easy taking this one on for the lead if they try front running tactics  .all in all we have a much more open race than it looked a few days ago.

I think the jocks on the two most fancied were watching each other and allowed the winner to nick a few lengths where it mattered. Pilot error to me.

Energumene was jumping too well he was getting up the @rses of those in front,he wanted a much stronger pace and why Townend didn't go to front I don't know and would it have made a difference I still don't know.
My take on it (reading on what Willie's and Paul's comments were)was not to have a slog today is not march could have been discussed between the two.
I said last year willie would get him fit after the Clarence as he doesn't put the gun to their head too early (Ruby calls it turning the screw)so no matter how last year's race unfolded(he had no say apart from ****kin on what the others achieved)he's still the champion chaser which he won from shishkin?.
So if he makes the boat after that screw has been turned and hasn't hurt himself at the last yesterday he has a favourites chance as how he will be ridden will be how Townend finds it.

Im just over the moon theres a bit of value in energumene now

Edwardstone was ridden to get round. He didn't have a race at Kempton and was too fresh yesterday. Alan King seemed very happy going forward. Blue Lord is the only other credible 2 miler apart from those who ran at Cheltenham.

So shishkin is done then ?

Thamks sageform

Who is going down the builders merchants to get a tub of whitewash for Mr Mullins? Imagine Ruby painting

Imagine having all his money and the time to do it

If you fancy Shishkin for the Champion Chase go ahead and take the value but he seems to be aiming at the Ryanair. If the Mullins camp think that Energumene is still a good thing then Blue Lord might also go there but the owners might have something to say about that.

nrnb  best odds guaranteed b365 lessens the stress !

Did a mugs double when I first read your post. EDG & JDG in the Triumph.  £10 free bet 20s & 12s. Just hoping that they think JDG had an off day and they don't just pull him.

Shishkin isn’t entered in the Champion Chase.

Well done Foyles with your bet on Saturday. You have a good bet going into the Champion.

I was of the opinion before the race that Energumene at 4/9 was a ludicrous price for a horse who’s form was full of more holes than Swiss cheese. If beating Funambule Sivola, Epson Du Houx, Daly Tiger and a bunch of 2.5 - 3 mile chasers ( Janadil and Envoi Allen ) and Chancun Pour Soi who looks gone at the game makes you that short then I must be missing something. Was Shishkin already struggling health wise when he beat him at Ascot ? The way he raced that day is very similar to Cheltenham and Sandown afterwards. Who knows….

You can only beat what’s in front of you of course but Edwardstone’s form was just as compelling and probably as solid with his wins in the Arkle and Tingle Creek.

To me Saturday was more of a watching race. Throughout the race I thought Edwardstone didn’t jump with his usual fluency while Editeur was pinging every fence. My takeaway was that the effort Edwardstone got too far back and his effort put in to catch Editeur was his undoing in the end.

The excuses Mullins came out with for Energumene were a bit strange. He jumped absolutely fine apart from the last fence but was beaten between the last two fences. He was beaten by two better horses on the day. I’m not sure Cheltenham suits him still and think he would need good ground to allow him to get home in front against horses better than Funambule Sivola.

If Blue Lord wins easily next weekend we could have 4 horses in with a big shout..and I agree Nube Negra isn’t a forlorn hope. I was sitting next to the owners at Kempton and the ground was totally against him. That run can be ignored.

I don’t think you can have a bet antepost currently as all horses will be 2/1 at least on the day. It’s wide open. Edwardstone just at the moment for me.

i tend to stick to singles at decent prices and keep away form those bookies special bets ! did ya back editeur  on saturday andy ?

There is a suggestion Saturday's rescheduled Clarence House Chase provided more questions than answers but I disagree. Edwardstone was the best horse in the race and should be outright favourite for the Champion Chase. I find it hard to believe there is still 5-2 available with ****.

Don't forget he was coming into the race on the back of an early exit at Kempton in the Desert Orchid so restoring confidence would have been the primary objective.

Tom Cannon tracked Paul Townend on Energumene throughout but that meant he had to work very hard to make up half-a-dozen lengths on Editeur Du Gite from the second-last. He did all his running to get to him and had nothing left inside the final 50 yards. Alan King reckons there is more to come and so do I.

His Tingle Creek win combined with this fine effort in defeat makes him the one to beat in March. That 5-2 with **** is big.

Tote

Agree Hibore but the top 2 are still very short for a race 6 weeks ago.

I agree withthe above comments. Top class horses dont run as bad as EN did without there being something wrong or the form just not being there. I hope Blue Lord runs here - for me i think him and Edwardstone are most likely winners, will juts depend on prices ont he day who i go for.

Blue Lord is another who might prefer a flatter track. He was beaten fair and square by Edwardstone is last years Arkle after looking a big danger 2 out.

yes true but he looks like he may have improved and thats at least up for debate - so its possible - ED still should be fav - giving easy in CC is less likely anyway

Hibore when ye get to leopardstown walk the track,

all the talk of how the fav dint run his race edwards dint jump as well as he usually does and they will reverse the form in the champ chase ,they may do but looking back at re-runs editeur jumps well and gets away quickly from  his fences and this  gets those in behind out of their comfort zone causing niggly small mistakes which prove costly at the buisness end , editeur looks to be improving  so could be more to come ,talk of energumene going off from the front but he will do well to lead the editeur from the off  in the champ chase and  that will play into the hands of edwardstone and other closers .

Bentring, I would love to walk the track. Is it possible to book ?

Not sure but would do no harm ring the office

Energumene was definitely spooky at the first , watch his back legs ....he normally is a fairly straight jumper . Mullins may have a point .Though unless that affected his whole race , he was unlikely to win even with a sound jump at the last .

He does edge right at his fences, talk of the colour of the fences is utter nonsense, he lost "in part" because he is not a speed horse and he was ridden as if he is, the winner set a stop start pace and when he kicked late the Fav couldn't pick up. Edwardstone's effort was massive to make up the ground he did off of the steady pace with the winner waiting in front and flattened out late on against a horse that had saved just enough.

They'll make it with Energumenme next time and try and gallop the rest into submission, this will suit Edwardstone too though, just remains to be seen if Energumene is good enough to break him with the edging right working against him too, personally  think Edwardstone will win...don't think the race concerns anything else whatsoever. IMO

The way I see it, EDG will have to put In another perfect round, only this time Energumene will be either breathing down his neck or ahead of him. Edwardstone struggled to make up the ground last time and won't get up the hill at a faster pace, leaving Energumene to win comfortable enough.

Edwardstone struggled to make the ground up?
I must've watched a different race.

If Energumene is leading won’t Edwardstone just sit 3 lengths behind him and enjoy the faster pace. Edwardstone has proved his stamina at Sandown and he’s the horse with the potent turn of foot. You have been watching too much Jonny Deneen

I think Alan King is hoping Editeur and Energumene do take each other on as is everyone backing Edwardstone as well. It’s the ideal scenario and best chance of winning.

I still can’t see how Cheltenham suits Energumene tbh. Move the race to sharp flat track then he is very likely winner against this field….the hill can’t be a good thing for him surely ? Even his greatest fan would have to admit he’s better around one of the flat Irish tracks.

Making up the ground was probably the wrong way of saying it. I mean by the time Edwardstone had made up the ground he was done and EDG passed him again. Add in the hill at Cheltenham and I can't see him winning. I was talking about Energumene running from the front long before JDs podcast. He probably would be better on a flat track, but I don't think it is a big enough factor here.

The decision not to enter Shishkin looks even more ridiculous now that there are major question marks about all the other contenders

Andy Edwardstone has already stormed up the hill in the Arkle when he was kept 2-3 lengths off the lead. In the process Blue Lord and Haut En Couleurs were well behind. Then bolting in at Sandown up the hill in the Tingle Creek in December ground.

I don’t think Edwardstone’s stamina is up for question. Saturday he was keeping tabs on Eugermene when the real danger was 10 lengths in front.

Edwardstone came out of the race with plenty of credit in my opinion.
He had to make up a lot of ground and did it very easily.

But I feel Editeur has not been the credit he deserves.
People have commented that he will not get such an easy lead in the Champion Chase, but he set some good fractions in the Clarence House.
He was over 2 seconds faster than Il Rodito over the 2nd circuit, so it will be interesting to see who will be able to keep up with him come March.

Willie Mullins "Hopefully that run will get him used to the new English white fences, we’ve schooled over them at home but he didn’t seem as happy over them today"

Duffy ..

duffy
"31 Jan 23 16:44Joined: 28 Mar 03 | Topic/replies: 26,288 |
He does edge right at his fences, talk of the colour of the fences is utter nonsense"


Duffy how many Cheltenham winners have you trained ?

my modus operandus is to keep topping up every few days on my fancies but the price has gone for editeur d g after saturdays result i am in a decent position on him but cant back him anymore at present price , i dont fancy any of the front 3 for various  reasons . it dilutes it a bit what with also having large bets for me on nube negra but its all about potential profit and i dont mind having a few pops at big prices and i have added grenateen at ave 28 on here .on the face of it he has plenty to find with edwardstone on tingle  creek running but he had won the haldon chase off top weight and nicholls had him targeted for that and the tingle creek may have come a bit soon rated 170 the same as edwardstone and 6 pound behind energumene, a good jumper and strong traveller paul  nicholls knows what it takes in this race and he   his price looks too big to me and i will be drip feeding tenners and £20s on this one every few days up to raceday.

brandy in many  of energumenes races esp in ireland he is given an easy lead nothing wants to go toe to toe with him ,he will do well to lead editeur early watch editeur at the start of his races he skips off keenly and i dont think its going to suit the mullins horse duelling early with editeur  who  not only jumps well he gets away quickly from his fences ,if he is taken on from the front by energumene then those 2 could be done by the last fence and that could set it up for a finisher and edwardstone grenateen nube negra and the unexposed blue lord come right into it ,we will see its opened up into a potentially cracking race and a fine betting opportunity   if this lot line up on the day.

what has to be taken  into consideration is they have had a tough race the 1st 3, 6 weeks to get over it we will see ,will be some  horses that go there fresher wether they can make that  advantage we will see.

advantage count^^

Not sure which horses that have not run recently could get within hailing distance of Energumene and Edwardstone at their best. I think Edwardstone is the most likely winner because he was ridden very conservatively in the Clarence House because of his early fall previously and can be expected to be much closer to Editeur after the third last next time. Nube Negra looked very good on a couple of occasions but none of his last 6 runs would put him within 10lbs of the top 3 in the betting.

yeah nube negra is inconsistent but talented on his day ,greanateen is rated the same as edwardstone 170 so on official figgas he hasnt got to find anything but we know it doesnt work out like that .

The top of the market usually provides the winner in the champion chase but the funny thing is a big outsider pften gets placed and if you can find it ......it represents better value than the winner !

Which horse has put up the fastest time in the last 10 runnings?

The great Sprinter x2,Altior x2 possibly,plenty to choose from.

Shiskin 5/6

Chacun 8/13

Defi 2/5 ..... Just the last 3 renewals.

I,m not so sure the Clarence house has any bearing on this years Queen Mother.

The standard times are 7 secs different from New to Old course,which one of those 3 might Improve for the tighter track could be key.

Regaining confidence,to a tin of Duluxe brilliant white,racing history is littered with them.

As for historical data,who decides the outcome may have no connection to any of the above.

"Pullintheotherone" has a perfect 4/4 from the 2022 meeting,getting the conditions wrong from day 1.


The fastest horse in those last 10 runnings was Sire Du Grugy,on ground connections were adamant was too quick for him.

Whatever your stance,anybody suggesting the Moores are 2nd rate when it comes to Champion Chasers,might need a re-think.

The RSA come 2-00 O,Clock on the wednesday might provide the biggest clue.

I would agree with many,there are more questions than answers at this point.

Hibore, I just don't think we can use the Clarence as a guideline. It will be a totally different race in March. My biggest issue with Edwardstone is that he went in front but was headed again, by the same horse he just passed. That is a massive red flag for me and so
Energumene is still the obvious choice. Especially, now with the much improved prices.

I agree the Clarence House isn’t the only factor but everyone I’ve heard analysing the race agree it was a lung bursting effort to make up the ground. Ruby Walsh said that last night it was a massive effort and understandable he flattened out last 100 yards.

We will see if the Energumene excuses were valid or not in March or maybe he wasn’t as good as first thought. He’s the one that has more to prove after Saturday.

Andymca,

You're not taking into account the amount of ground Ewardstone had to make up against a horse who was able to set his own fractions out in front, they all have a certain amount of petrol in the tank, how it's used is key.

Imagine a race where one is able to go clear without having to use up too much energy, in effect a freebie head start, the other then has to use up all his effort trying to close down that free ground the winner was afforded early on, the second gets there but just runs out of gas late on, that's what happened the other day and it doesn't detract from the effort.

The irony is, EDG may now have thrown his CC chances out of the window as the cats out of the bag, if he never ran Saturday they'd still have that tactic up their sleeve and would be going into the CC very much under the radar still.

The Mullins camp have previous messing up a CC by holding up a galloper in CPS rather than sending him, so it's possible it could have happened again.

the clue could be in rubys  lung bursting comment   could that leave a mark ?

I don't get the quote "he won't get an easy lead lead next time" rubbish.

If a horse wants to go a quick, but sensible gallop, surely it does not matter if another horse wants to go faster? Let him.

The only concern is if the jockey is clueless and makes his horse go faster than he wmshould and thinks he has to lead.

You can still go a fast pace like Editeur did in the Clarence House but lay up in 2nd place.

Do agree with Duffy regarding the ridiculous comment from W.Mullins regarding the colour of the wings!!

And surprised by Irishone to say that cheap comment "how many winners have you trained"

You're better than that Irish .

clearly you have no clue  what he is talking about
its not the wings
its the colour of the kickboard
study has found it can make a difference as to how the horse views the fence and on average they are safer for the horses
used to be orange now its white at cheltenham
willie was saying exactly the same as the study , it makes a difference as to how the horse views a fence......

brandy what i was alluding to is imo energumene was going off in front at his own  pace in previous races  which he was comfortable in ,last week he had to go at a imo faster pace another horse was setting .

Could be right Foyles.

Good luck today.

gentleman d mee won well and comes into the argument but he might not have beaten much.

Blue Royal didn't turn up and that's about it, if you're an Edwardstone fan you can point at what he did to him in the Tingle Creek and be pleased with yourself, but GDM probably didn't run any better today than he did then, worthless piece of form with regards the CC today IMO

Ran well at Aintree against Edwardstone. Maybe takes time to warm up through the season?

Yep maybe, he did also miss the festivals whereas Edwardstone was having his 7th run and was arguably ott by then.

Edwardstone on a slight drift after news that he bruised his foot in the Clarence House.

blue lord ryanair shirley

Seems the logical choice, in case Allaho doesn't make it or doesn't run well after the long lay off.

Mullins taking every precaution in search of Cheltenham whitewash

Last season’s Cheltenham Festival meeting was a Willie Mullins whitewash — and he is not leaving anything to chance in pursuit of something similar next week.

Having won a remarkable 10 races over the four days at Prestbury Park — taking his tally at the Festival to a record 88 winners — the Closutton handler revealed he has painted all the bars on his schooling fences and hurdles white.

White markings on the frames, guard rails and take-off boards replaced traditional orange colourings on obstacles at every British racecourse last year.

The British Horseracing Authority’s decision for the colour change, following guidance from experts at Exeter University into horse vision, came in the interests of horse welfare and safety.

In years past, Mullins has worked and schooled horses at Leopardstown prior to running at Cheltenham.

This year will be a little different, however. Speaking at the Dublin track to Racing TV on Sunday, he explained: “I don’t see much point in schooling here, if they all jump well


Unless someone comes round with a bucket of whitewash tomorrow and paints those fences, I don’t see much point in schooling over the orange bars.

“I’ve put in a whole new schooling operation with white hurdles and fences and we’ll do our stuff at home.”

Mullins is a stickler for details and knows that with competition so fierce at the Festival, every mistake is magnified.

He added: “Some horses could go down (and jump) over blue fences, yellow fences, it wouldn’t matter a damn to them — they are just that cool.

“Other horses will look at them from a half-mile out and they will see something different, so you never know which one, especially in the shorter races if you want to be up there and and have your position.

“You don’t want to have them looking at the first hurdle and backing off it or the first fence and backing off it, because you just lose your position and then at Cheltenham you are playing catch-up the whole time.



Whereas round the country tracks or not at the big meetings, it doesn’t matter so much, as you’ll get your ground back much easier — but at Cheltenham, no one gives you an inch.

“So what you lose at the first hurdle or fence, it’s gone, you are not going to get it back.”















duffy31 Jan 23 16:44Joined: 28 Mar 03 | Topic/replies: 26,402 | Blogger: duffy's blog
He does edge right at his fences, talk of the colour of the fences is utter nonsense


brandyontherocks03 Feb 23 22:26Joined: 04 Dec 06 | Topic/replies: 1,639 | Blogger: brandyontherocks's blog
Do agree with Duffy regarding the ridiculous comment from W.Mullins regarding the colour of the wings


Wrong again lads .......


Mullins said his powerful string has taken to the painted obstacles well and is looking forward to the meeting, which starts on Tuesday week.

“They are jumping them every second day at home, so we’re good.”

He added: “Fingers crossed, toes crossed, everything crossed. We are very happy with how most things are.

“You are always going to get little upsets, but we still have another week to go before we travel. Things will come right, but nothing major"

Makes you wonder why he didn't do it BEFORE the Clarence House, couldn't have thought it was a big deal.

Obviously now after a poor effort he's searching for an answer and he may have found it....maybe.

Hopefully the lack of foresight hasn't left a mark on the horse remembering his bad experience the last time he ran at Cheltenham.

At least with his fingers AND toes crossed he's covering all bases....can't hurt

noticed anything lads ?
year after year after year
the BHA come up with something just before Cheltenham
this year its the whip issue
previous years its been everything from banning Gordon to horse passports
why ?

dont think the whip issue is because of cheltenham irish....anyways looks like Gentlemen de mee a gonner,,,,30 on here now and friendless

be down to 7 if scratched with blue lord,,,be down to 7...still top3 the high st atm

confirmed nr

£400k on Energumene. It must be from the owner Tony Bloom owner of Brighton, I think.

unclepuncle 12 Mar 23 13:40
Heavy ground means Energumene just has to show up imo. Grenateen at 25/1 3 places is the other good bet.

You are welcome.

He's not all bad when he's fit

Energumene backers,never looked in doubt today.
  vwd
    GL.

...and the first thing willie says post race interview

HE COULDNT HANDLE the white take off boards