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Cheltenham Festival
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These 99 comments are related to the topic:
Four dead......FFS.... BHA do something
Four dead......FFS.... BHA do something
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Replies: 99
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Agreed. Have to in the parade ring area.
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A full time independent regulatory body would do the job the BHA have known about this problem for years , time to take them out of the equation
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Would someone please suggest a viable way to change things. If horses jump obstacles with 10.00+ stones on their back, some of them will make mistakes and fall and a few of those will be killed. Even on the flat a significant number are fatally injured so, short of having leading rein races with no riders, I can't see how you avoid some injuries.
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I find it astounding and difficult to comprehend how a horse with 4-spindly looking legs in comparison to its size (weight) is not injured more frequently galloping, jumping and landing at speed. Imagine a heavyweight human doing that. I think the person will be forbidden for safety and health reasons.
But, horseracing being a sport, and a horse is merely an animal it's acceptable to most involved. |
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https://banbloodsports.wordpress.com/2021/05/01/five-horses-killed-at-punchestown-racing-festival/
Hope the Irish have addressed this issue as we approach this years festival |
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Spot on Duffy. Maybe why the British trainers don’t send many horses over.
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Why bring up the ireland v england thing ?
You must be embarrassed by the fact horse welfare is less important than the money needed from over crowding. I repeat ,it doesnt matter where horses die, the sport needs to come to terms with the fact that unless something effective is done to reduce the deaths very soon there wont be a cheltenham festival or a punchestown festival. |
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I don't think anyone who follows this sport likes to see horses falling, getting injured and losing their lives.
I am not sure what can be done to help this. The painting of the flights and jumps to white hopefully might help a bit. Running on softer going is always better but when they water this probably leads to inconsistent patches over the course. Unfortunately when horses are pushed to their limits injuries and deaths will happen. |
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I would be devastated if anything happened to Go Chique, Paros or Crossing Lines. I go and see them whenever I can and as long as they come home safe after racing I’m over the moon. Anything that can be made to make it safer I’m all for it.
Maybe white boards on the jumps will help ? |
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irishone
Why bring up the ireland v england thing ? Your right, let’s just keep your anti British theme going through all the threads.  |
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Brandy
I have had horses in my back field for years. People have fed them from the road and reported them dead to the ISPCA when in fact all they were doing was lying down. I had to put signs up on their advice dont fed them and...believe it or not "horses do lie down now and then". What I was faced with was overcoming public perception. The BHA and the IHRB have the same problem. They have to stay ahead of public perception because if the majority of the public perceive N H racing as a cruel sport that will end it. It needs an independent body to keep it ahead of the public perception. People who run the game are biased , so are the antis. An independent body regulating the sport would keep the sport going longer . Now add in all the Cheltenham tales of drunken mobs, extortionate pricing, cokeheads and overcrowding and you can see why our sport needs protecting . Then add in the death of coursing, fox hunting and the slow death of greyhound racing . See which way we are heading ? |
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Course is the same this year as last year.
Never see any of these posts from you other than the crowing posts about th Irish winners and the one's you'd put up after the festival in 2021. You were'nt to worried about the safety of the track then. Hypocrite. |
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Go back and have a good read mate
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If you have or did,I'll apologies.
I can't remember all posts on here, or constantly reel back through 'em all. |
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..not even worth a response mate
irishone irishone25 Feb 19 08:00Joined: 22 Sep 06 | Topic/replies: 48,131 | Blogger: irishone's blog I have said it before and I will say it again You are so far up your own backsides Look at it from a different point of view And once again open your minds.... What other world class competition Finishes with some of the participants Dead ? Until cheltenham solves the problem of fatalities How can anyone boast its world class ? Until cheltenham starts telling the truth about the going it will not be worldclass ? Until it stops taking gambles like not dolling fences off where the low sun causes a problem it will not be world class. |
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That was three years ago penzance .....no change imvho
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Irishone just forgot to mention that Punchestown and Dublin festivals have similar rates of deaths. Even though they are “world class” and much better than anything at Cheltenham.
Read between the lines he wants Cheltenham gone. |
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2 posts in 2 min on 2 different threads against the Irish 1,stalker springs to mind
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If you both stopped your anti British racism then I would have no need to post.
I agree about horse welfare but this thread named “4 dead….ffs….BHA do something”. It’s becoming tedious this anti Cheltenham post after post…and thread after thread. The idiot defended Gordon Elliott for sitting on a dead horse and then attacked the BHA for apparently leaking the photo so he would be banned to let the British win races at Cheltenham. Really ? To twist that episode into anti British crap must have took some working out. |
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So I'm anti my own people,get a grip and let someone else defend the nation,if his posts annoy you just ignore
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A pathetic stalker indeed, is hibore.
Saying what about punchestown ? Or panorama films or doing the english irish thing and coming up with lies is a pathetic attempt to avoid the truth. cheltenham less than twenty days racing per annum , punchestown and leopardstown over twenty easily kilfenora, innisfree, reality cheque, annie kate, year of the tiger , carlingford loch ,malinas jack,,special tiara, disko 9 deaths i can recall last three years or so leopardstown 8 at punchestown since May 2018 Cheltenham 20 deaths over the same period penzance if you really want to go down the route of comparing as I say .....it doesnt matter where they die , these are dead horses and it aint right wherever they are. Ireland much safer at these tracks, cheltenham is a dangerous track , the bha know it and have done feck all about it since the 2013 report . bentring ....hibore he is a liar and an aftertimer , proven many times, stuck so far up his own backside that the excrement drips through his keyboard, blocking the only answer. |
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The main Horse racing forum doesn’t tolerate your racism. Shame everyone seems to let you get away with it on here that is why we have 5 regular posters when there was 50+
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Jees 30 minutes .....bit slow today mate
You need help ..... Stalking is unwanted and/or repeated surveillance by an individual or group toward another person.[1] Stalking behaviors are interrelated to harassment and intimidation and may include following the victim in person or monitoring them. The term stalking is used with some differing definitions in psychiatry and psychology, as well as in some legal jurisdictions as a term for a criminal offense.[2][3] |
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Sageform...in response to your earlier statement
The best viable way to make the necessary changes is to take the matter out of the hands of the bha and the ihrb. Other methods that need to be explored are ..... https://pursuit.unimelb.edu.au/articles/preventing-racehorse-injuries Which explores advanced imaging technology , an important contributor to determining a horse’s risk in jumping. https://equimanagement.com/articles/research-into-preventing-catastrophic-racehorse-injuries Which looks at proteins in a horses blood to diagnose possible risk from injury https://www.myvetcandy.com/clinicalupdblog/2020/11/27/horse-skeletons-provide-clues-to-preventing-racehorse-injuries Which suggests a horses skeleton can be a guide to its chances of catestrophic injury. There are loads of studies that have found loads of different ways of identifying horses at risk. What is missing i feel is that the system is based upon cure not prevention. Diagnosis, treat and rehabilitate is the preferred route, this has to change. Identification of horses at greater risk of injury is hardly going to be a favoured route for the main industry stakeholders currently, which is why an independent body needs to regulate the sport. |
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The other thing I think needs to be addressed is the stiff fences at Cheltenham.
The rate of deaths over 2.5 miles is much higher than the two mile rate . If its not the course undulations orthe three hundred yard uphill finish , then the fences themselves have to be too hard on the horses. |
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Where do you get the idea the fences at Cheltenham are stiffer?
Do you mean the placement of fences? Or do you think the fences at Cheltenham are made from a different material making them less forgiving? I'm sure you are knowledgeable enough not to think the latter. |
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As honcho says above the fences are a minimum of 4 foot 6 inches and made out of spruce or birch. They have the roll on roll off plastic birch fences over there which are a lot more forgiving. So yes I do mean the latter.
As for moving fences there have been changes recently with regard the second last , the main problem is the approach not being levek and the horses jumping on a downhill or an uphill. Cheltenham are well acquainted with that problem especially when its downhill into a fence with the sun behind and they are told not to doll. |
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ccumulator Tips
NAP Of The Day Lucky 15 Tips Each Way Tips Dark Horse Tips Daily Win Treble To be fair this was a few years a go... CHELTENHAM MOVE NIGHTMARE FENCE FOR THIRD TIME IN NINE YEARS Cheltenham racecourse is now working harder than ever to get the course and surrounding areas in top condition ready for the thousands of racegoers that will be stampeding into the track for the greatest four days of racing during the jumps season. One of the biggest changes this season on the old course will be based around the penultimate and notoriously troublesome fence that is again being moved in position for the third time in nine years. The movement and repositioning of the fence has come about after there was talks held between jockeys who have raced on the course, BHA senior inspector Richard Linney and the tracks itself. The new placing of the fence will now be jumped over for the first time at the festival in the second race on the Tuesday and first Grade1 chase contest of the four days with the Racing Post Arkle. Back in 2010 the fence was moved from the bottom of the hill on the straight after a handful of horses were suspected of falling after not making a mistake.This caused clerk of the course Simon Claisse to call it an "unreasonable challenge". in 2016 the fence was moved again for the second time in six years after the rate of horses falling at that specific fence began to rise again and it was then moved eight yards further away from the turn for home. In the third and hopefully final change up in position for the second to last fence, it is now being situated a further 10 yards past the turn and now leaves a total of 110 yards between the penultimate and last fence before the line. One of the worst falls at that fence last season was in the RSA Chase where the Willie Mullins trainer Al Boum Photo crashed out of the race and leaving jockey Ruby Walsh with a fractured leg and saw him miss the rest of the festival. |
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Only one of the fatalities this year was in a steeplechase. Two were at hurdles and one was on the flat (i.e., between hurdles).
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Think the 2018 Bha report sugggested there was a 2:1 ratio , twice as many fell over the chase fences than the hurdle fences .....perhaps they are heading in the right direction ? I somehow doubt it !
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Extracts from the 2018 bha report ....
THE OBSTACLES Cheltenham Racecourse has 24 steeple chase fences (‘fences’), 16 flights of hurdles (17 when a 2½ mile hurdle race) in total across the Old and New Courses. The Cross-Country Course comprises 20 individually unique obstacles, some of which are jumped more than once during a race. The Review Group undertook to: • Consider historical obstacle changes; • Investigate obstacle construction, particularly fences, to ensure they are constructed and filled to the highest industry standards, and if safer alternatives are available; • Establish if all fences have appropriate and uniform levels and drops; • Establish if any fences have a higher rate of adverse events and if so why. The Review Group explored fence construction, survey work on the levels and drops for each fence, analysis of video footage and fence-by-fence statistics on fallers. OBSTACLE CHANGES British racecourses have always numbered obstacles from the first fence/hurdle in a two-mile start. Cheltenham is an exception where steeple chase fences are numbered first from the chute in the middle of the course, where the 2m 4 ½f and 2m 5f chase starts are located. Old Course In October 2010, fence 14 was moved into the home straight, becoming fence 6 and 15, which has successfully reduced faller rates. The water jump was rubberised in 2008, i.e. water section featured a rubberised base as a safety measure (BHAGI 3.5(6)10). In December 2006, fence 14 at the top of the hill became a sectional fence and was moved back nearer to the bend in order to reduce faller rates. This fence was moved a further 30 yards towards the bend in December 2016. Faller rates were successfully reduced following this move. During the 2007-08 season, fence sections were introduced on the New Course for the December and January fixtures, in order to save ground for the Festival, following fatalities in 200611. One of the track management criticisms at that time, was the lack of fresh ground for Championship races; therefore this enhancement through fence placement flexibility, along with reduced safety factors for December and January fixtures, facilitates the availability of fresh ground on this course for the Festival. The water jump was rubberised in 2009 similar to the Old Course. Other than these highlighted changes, there have been no other significant changes to fence positions or construction in recent times. |
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It is important to establish what the problems really are before trying "solutions". I think intuitively we think of steeplechase dences as more dangerous, but hurldes have bigger fields and are run at a faster pace. We are also, statistically speaking, dealing with small sample sizes when considering the Festival (only 1 flat race, 1 XC, 13 hurdle races, 13 regulation chases; 1 conditional jockeys race, 3 amateur jockeys races).
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Furthermore .....
All fences at Cheltenham are made of a combination of natural materials with plastic aprons (artificial green spruce). The average height of all fences is 4’ 6” and all fences are rebuilt in alternate years in order to ensure elasticity. Guard rails are padded and, along with take-off boards, are coloured orange. The hurdles are made of mostly natural materials including an Ash frame with Birch laced through the structure to ensure there are no gaps and that no light is visible through the obstacle. The take-off boards and framing are orange in colour. Although the majority of racecourses use the materials detailed above, the industry is currently investigating further developments in hurdle design. These studies are ongoing, however the Review Group recommend that all racecourses, including Cheltenham, consider future hurdle developments including padded hurdles, the Southampton University hurdle design and other safety driven initiatives. |
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The 2018 report studied the period 2006/2018 which was a relatively large sample size.
My main point here is that despite all the work the BHA have done , despite all the recommendations they have made and the changes that have taken place . The festival ....the flagship of the sport , alledgedly world class..... still has horses dying annually and the overall record is sti ll pretty disgraceful. An independent body would allow a different approach with greater visibility and no holds from the BHA internal politics. The BHA have always wanted to be in control of its own destiny. It is clearly not working, horses are still dying at the flagship year after year . |
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I think it's a very fair suggestion.
But the problems are complex and I doubt there are easy solutions. I don't see how you could have horse racing yet stop an accident like Ginto's. |
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If irishone is a racist I'm Boris Johnson. And I refuse to be that buffoon.
The man is quite right and it is you hibore who are turning this into something it shouldn't be. The safety of the horses is far too easily taken for granted and the death of the horses is far too easily countenanced and accepted. It's for people like you, actively involved in racing through ownership, to get things moving to improve their safety. And you;re doing next to nothing, except voicing your prejudice on here. This isn't about irishone, or me , or you, it is about the welfare and safety of the most important participants. Waken up to that, put your bias aside, get your fellow owners onside to change things and the sport might start making progress with the antis, who are quiet at present but most certainly haven't gone away!. And as he keeps saying - it doesn't where they die, it only matters that they all live. |
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Exactly
The bha and the ihrb are just faffing about |
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Loyal, I think you need to read the rest of the threads on here over the last 3 years. At least 10 posters have called him out on here or on your Horse Racing forum. When someone posts anti everything British in 95% of his posts then it’s not too difficult to understand our viewpoint. I’ve joined the majority of other posters who don’t bother to come onto the Cheltenham forum that often anymore. It’s a real shame.
You and Irishone post a defence of Robbie Dunne and that Bryony is the main cause of the problem on the HR forum. I’ve never joined that debate but you could argue Irish vrs British again at least from him. Regarding the welfare/safety of horses I doubt there are many people on here who worry about that more than me every time our horses run. One of our horses wasn’t jumping that well so Henderson sent her to Henrietta Knight for a week to give the horse the best opportunity to learn to be safe over the obstacles. He does that for 90 rated horses as well as 170. I’m not sure if all trainers do that but I feel more confident she will jump correctly now and reduce mistakes that could cause harm. I’m not sure what we can do about fences and hurdles but will bring up with David Pipe when we visit the stable over the weekend and ask his opinion which I will post next week. Best of luck with your punting. |
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I have never defended Robbie Dunne, nor have I ever declared him innocent. I have however regularly called out the slipshod and frankly, pre-determined process by which has was tried and judged, and of course, I have been a keen critic of the female jockey. And I still am critical of them. Perhaps you, and almost everybody else should actually read my posts and not just despatch them to bin 13.
So, as long as your horses are alright you're ok? I hope they continue to stay safe and sound, and that every other horse is given that same consideration on British racecourses. Can I ask you - as owners what you and your consortium colleagues are actively doing for the continued improvement of horse welfare in national hunt racing? And good luck to you with your trading too. |
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hes last post says it all...the bha irhb are failing the horses basically...but the OP was like most of his stuff ..anti uk anti cheltenham,,,bla bla bla
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