Cheltenham Festival

Welcome to Live View – Take the tour to learn more
Start Tour
There is currently 1 person viewing this thread.
geoff m
04 Mar 22 15:58
Date Joined: 23 Feb 03
| Topic/replies: 19,298 | Blogger: geoff m's blog
Money that I have made laying AP subsequent NRs has been taken off me.
.Marksman.04 Mar 22 13:50Joined: 13 Jul 10 | Topic/replies: 18,169 | Blogger: .Marksman.'s blog
Over the last 12 months I have laid many horses in the Ante Post Cheltenham markets.  Inevitably some are now non_runners and these were indicated with a 1 where their odds where in "Matched Bets" window.  The totals where all added up to make a "Total Stake" value.  However, now non_runners have now been removed from the lists and my Totals have been reduced to such an extent that it will be impossible to win at the meeting as I have got so much red in my books.   An example of a horse who has been removed is Bob Olinger in the Champion Hurdle.  I didn't realize that this was going to be non_runner/no bet all the way since last March.
Just wondering whether this has happened to anyone else recently?
Pause Switch to Standard View Ante Post bet Cheltenham problems re...
Show More
Report geoff m March 4, 2022 4:02 PM GMT
Highlighted by Marksman on Ante Post forum .Got same problem .Noticed my profits on Champion Hurlde had taken a dip and wasnt sure why.

Matched bets non runners been removed and would appear to be from profit & loss on each runner.

Emailed live chat.

I wont wait up for a plausible explanation.
Report duffy March 5, 2022 6:21 PM GMT
Yes, I've had money back from horses that aren't now running, it seems that rather than a normal ante post N/R they are being treated more like they've been balloted out, don't get what's going on.
Report Hibore March 5, 2022 7:53 PM GMT
Be careful if you bet with Bet356 NRNB Championship races between 3rd - 28th Jan. Mine went into antepost when the markets changed and split into 2 full markets (NRNB and Antepost). Took 2 hours on chat until they agreed to void and refund.
Report .Marksman. March 6, 2022 11:45 AM GMT
Problem now is that although I have got my money back, I can't see were I stand on individual races.  And I won't know until after the race is settled, after it has been run.
Report PeteTheBloke March 6, 2022 8:03 PM GMT
Marksman - can you look on your phone? The P+L seems to be correct there.
Report .Marksman. March 6, 2022 8:59 PM GMT
Haven't got a smart phone, Pete.  Strange that it should be different on phones. Maybe if I delete all cookies...
Report .Marksman. March 6, 2022 9:07 PM GMT
Deleting cookies didn't make any difference Sad
Report PeteTheBloke March 6, 2022 9:13 PM GMT
Wise man. They're handy at times, but they're a scourge at other times.

It seems they have no intention of fixing it. Or perhaps the code chappie will be back tomorrow and do it.
Report geoff m March 6, 2022 10:01 PM GMT
Marksman you say youve got your money back when was this ? Does it show as part settlement for Supreme in your P & L and on account statement?
Report .Marksman. March 6, 2022 10:56 PM GMT
geoff, my balance increased by over £100 to about the level it was before.  Besides this, there is no indication.  It does not appear as partly settled, as it would on a tennis tournament in which a player is eliminated, for instance.
Report geoff m March 7, 2022 12:46 AM GMT
should show on your account statement then Marksman. Ive checked mine and no settlement in either.
Report PeteTheBloke March 7, 2022 8:04 PM GMT
Nope. It's not in the markets, it's not in the P+L, it's not in transactions. It's hard to work out your position
on the races, when they've subtracted a big "loss" that doesn't exist.
Report geoff m March 7, 2022 8:11 PM GMT
This was the useless reply i received:

Paul (Betfair)

Mar 6, 2022, 14:06 GMT


Thanks for getting in touch.
This is in regards to your exchange query.
Can you kindly refresh the balance as it should be sorted on your end.
If not please do contact us again.

So refresh balance (as if that was going to miraculously make it appear) and go back to Live Chat to start the process over again.
Starts with same inane question whats the Bet I>D another 1/2 hour of pulling teeth   before going to look into it again and get back.
Report .Marksman. March 8, 2022 10:14 AM GMT
Still not sorted today.  I will be giving up Betfair after The Derby if this is not resolved by then.  I, along with others, have been providing liquidity in the ante post markets.  I have been doing this for 20 years with the exception of a few months in 2010 when I left Betfair for a while because of Premium Charge.  State pension age is getting closer and I should really be doing something else with my life before I get there.
Report geoff m March 8, 2022 7:11 PM GMT
Betfair moved on Tuesday night to reassure punters there would be no repeat of a technical problem that reduced the balances of some customers on Friday and in some cases left punters puzzling over a negative balance. The issue appears to stem from ante-post bets on certain Cheltenham Festival races placed through the company's exchange on horses that have since been withdrawn.

When those horses were deleted from the relevant markets on Friday evening it appears that stakes relating to them were deducted from customer balances for a second time, having also been deducted at the time the bets were placed. That at least is the conclusion drawn by some of the affected punters who described their experience to the Racing Post.

A typical experience was described by one, who estimated he had around €25 left in his account on Friday and found the next morning that it was showing -€119.54. Another said his balance had changed three times since Saturday morning without any action on his part, which he ascribed to efforts by Betfair to restore him to his forme
Report geoff m March 8, 2022 7:39 PM GMT
A Betfair spokesman insisted that the cause had been "identified and fixed" and there should be no repeat when further horses are deleted from markets in the coming days. "We have identified that the issue was triggered by a small number of markets after a technical change," he said.

"As we now have the root cause, we are working through it and expect to have the small number of affected accounts corrected by the end of today [Tuesday]. Again, no-one will be out of pocket and all accounts will reflect their exact position."

Dont know about yous but im still waiting.
Report Hibore March 8, 2022 7:50 PM GMT
Mine is sorted. I used the chat and they updated while I was connected to agent.
Report geoff m March 8, 2022 8:14 PM GMT
shouldnt have to be done on an individual basis should they Hibore. Surely press of a few buttons should correct all.

You where lucky the 2 i got really hadnt got a scooby do what i was on about.
Report .Marksman. March 8, 2022 9:59 PM GMT
Hibore and Geoff, are your positions on each market now shown correctly and can you see the bets on withdrawn horses in the panel on the right of the screen?  Because I still can't see mine.
Report geoff m March 8, 2022 10:35 PM GMT
Not sure if positions are now shown correctly as i trade the champion hurdle market and wouldnt have a clue whether its showing or not. They have dissappeared from the right hand side of matched bets and havent appeared as part settled in either P & L or Account Statement.
Report geoff m March 8, 2022 10:38 PM GMT
The respons i had from Betfair was refresh your balance .Which is an absolute waste of time. You need to actually see the profit in statement/P & L or still in the market.
Report jimnast March 9, 2022 7:40 AM GMT
What a mess this is I’ve been away for a while and have just checked my anti post books I haven’t got a clue where I stand wtf are betfair doing and for what reason ?
Report Fangsy March 9, 2022 8:36 AM GMT
I'm also suffering from this mess.  And now markets for Tues have been suspended whereas I thought the confirmation of entry stage closed at noon.  And any idea when the closure of markets for declarations will be?  And...  And...
Report geoff m March 9, 2022 11:11 AM GMT
"As we now have the root cause, we are working through it and expect to have the small number of affected accounts corrected by the end of today [Tuesday]. Again, no-one will be out of pocket and all accounts will reflect their exact position."

So why are we waiting??
Report geoff m March 9, 2022 1:16 PM GMT
The sorting it out technical issues didnt last long. @ todays declaration stage another host of non runners withdrawn with lay bets disappearing into the ether.

Not on matched bets.
Not on account statement.
Not part settled in profit & Loss.

Report Hibore March 9, 2022 5:12 PM GMT
Mines gone haywire again today. I’ve had negative balance, zero balance and now increased balance all in 4 hours Laugh
They can leave it as it is now Devil
Report ImSoLuckyLucky! March 9, 2022 7:18 PM GMT
Been given a free £10 bonus for this problem
Report PeteTheBloke March 9, 2022 8:07 PM GMT
I got the tenner but the markets are all still jiggered in the website. Phone app is OK as far as I can see - it shows the correct profit/loss
for each runner.
Report geoff m March 9, 2022 8:43 PM GMT
Unbelievable that different profit /loss is shown whether app or website.

Contacted them friday and twice since still waiting for a satisfactory/correct outcome. telephone chat assistants not got a clue what yer even talking about.

Each time yer contact BET ID please.

I hate dentists but the pain having to try and resolve this is alot worse.
Report .Marksman. March 9, 2022 9:55 PM GMT
I haven't had my tenner yetAngry
Report geoff m March 9, 2022 10:11 PM GMT
Im still waiting Marksman, plus a satisfactory answer of where the missing ante post lay bets and monies have gone too .
Report jimnast March 10, 2022 7:39 AM GMT
No change here either
Report geoff m March 10, 2022 12:52 PM GMT
Hiya Jimnast .Worse than pulling teeth trying to get a plausible reply from Betfair:

Here we go again today with Ballymore horses withdrawn and lay bets disappear mysteriously into the ether whilst reducing your profits on the remaining runners left in the race.

Whatever the reason/situation its HOPELESS. Why someone in Betfair Towers grasp the problem and deal with it.
Report jimnast March 10, 2022 1:06 PM GMT
Hello Geoff

Back in foot and mouth year I did a lot of anti post business on here in fact I almost had the laying to myself ,so plenty of money tied up ,so when the festival was silenced by the lambs I rang up (you could back then) this would be a week or so after the abandonment I was told there not yet sure what happens to anti post bets .

Seems in the 20 years that have passed they still are clueless.

Not even an explanation why this has happened
Report cobra sam March 10, 2022 1:14 PM GMT
had a mail from them,,saying we are aware that your account is one of those affected,,sorry etc,,we think its cleared up and a free 20 quid bet
Report geoff m March 10, 2022 1:16 PM GMT
Was 2 years behind you Jimnast .But ante post laying was money for old rope in the early days.

You could back NRNB with books and lay em shorter here with ante post rules.

Yep you wsould have thought with 20 years water under the bridge they might have a scooby whats going on.

Had to contact customer services 3 times with 2 unsatisfactory replies of "refresh your balance"

Still waiting for 3rd reply.
Report .Marksman. March 10, 2022 2:30 PM GMT
Geoff, if you have Python3 installed on your machine, I have written a script that retrieves lay bets and calculates profit and loss.  It is not ready for back bets yet as my Chelt books are all lays.
First, go to My Account>My Bets>Matched>Options>Date Range (Period required)>Download.  Don't save or open as spreadsheet, but save in Downloads or your preferred folder as a csv file.
Then run this script with modifications for your path to the file and the name of the race (Champion Hurdle, Triumph Hurdle etc.)

import csv
race_name = "Champion Hurdle"
csv_path = "/home/mark/Downloads/ExchangeBets_Open.csv"
matched_total = 0
list_of_lines = []
long_horse_list = []
with open(csv_path, 'r') as csv_file:
    csv_reader = csv.reader(csv_file)
    for line in csv_reader:
        if race_name in line[1] and line[7] == 'Matched':
            matched_total += float(line[4])
            horse = line[1].split(" |")[0].split("-")[0]
print("MATCHED TOTAL:", round(matched_total, 2))
horse_list = list(set(long_horse_list))
for item in horse_list:
    staked_on_horse = 0
    payout_on_horse = 0
    for line in list_of_lines:
        if item in line[1]:
            staked_on_horse += round(float(line[4]), 2)
            if float(line[3]) == 1:
                pay_out = 0
                payout = float(line[3]) * float(line[4])
                payout_on_horse += payout
    horse_profit = matched_total - payout_on_horse
    print(item, round(horse_profit, 2))
Report geoff m March 10, 2022 3:15 PM GMT
Ive not a clue what python 3 is Marksman.Thats totally baffled me. I only just know which buttons to press for back /lay LaughLaughBut thanx anyway.

A lot of the lays I would have probably traded with win bets @ higher prices to reduce liability.

So would that still give me a false reading.

Sad state of affairs that you need to write your own program to calculate your profit loss.

Im taking screen snap shots of all the bets layed from ante post markets to ensure they are paid when markets are finally settled.

But still in dark .
Report geoff m March 10, 2022 5:11 PM GMT
After a week of chasing this CR@P Latest response from Betfair is they dont understand the problem WTF:

Ursula at 17:07, Mar 10:
Thank you for waiting, I have check the ticked that has been raised last week and unfortunately the traders are having difficulty of understanding of the issue, if you could be a little bit more specific on what is happening then I can raise the issue to them again. Apologies
Report .Marksman. March 10, 2022 5:55 PM GMT
Who are "the traders"?  They sound like a bunch of tea tasters to me.  They need to get hold of the software person who messed up last week and get him/her to sort it out.
If anyone at Betfair is having difficulty understanding the issue, they should read this thread in which everything is explained perfectly.
I think the problem is employing people who have little experience of gambling themselves and consequently will have difficulty understanding the exchange concept.  I feel that I could do a better job myself as team leader at Betfair Towers, as I know what the customers are talking about and what they need.  A bit like a poacher turned gamekeeper.  But I have a chequered work history and I can't see anyone giving me a job now, especially at my age.Sad
Report geoff m March 10, 2022 6:05 PM GMT
Well well well took a week .But the non runners are now added back to the market and added to your profit loss. Thats happened within last 20 mins.
Report geoff m March 10, 2022 6:07 PM GMT
Agree with yer Marksman majority of them do not understand the"game". Its like yer speaking a foreign language to them.

Anyway ante post looks a bit healthier.FINALLY.

Thanx for your help and raising the issue in 1st place.
Report jimnast March 10, 2022 6:11 PM GMT
Good evening marksman

Whilst I realise you were been helpful regarding python 3 but really do we need to go to them lengths we only want to back or lay horses.
Report geoff m March 10, 2022 6:14 PM GMT
dont know whether you saw my reply to marksman    ,Jimnast .But seems to be all sorted after a week of hidden bets in the depths of betfair towers
Report duffy March 10, 2022 6:17 PM GMT
Wait until the Thursday and Friday n/r's are taken out of the markets, before it can be thought to be sorted.Scared
Report .Marksman. March 10, 2022 6:20 PM GMT
Jimnast, I wrote the python script primarily for myself, just to find out where I stood.  But I thought I would make it available in case someone wanted to use it.
So lets have a look..Wow, it really is back to normal... But it is a disgrace how long it took.
Report jimnast March 10, 2022 6:32 PM GMT
Yes mine is now also back to normal but anything could yet happen with these clowns,thanks for considering others marksman have a great Cheltenham.
Report PeteTheBloke March 10, 2022 8:43 PM GMT
You look like a Linux user, Mark :)
Report PeteTheBloke March 10, 2022 8:45 PM GMT
The page you suggest (My bets) says I have no matches in the time period. I think the sheer volume
of £1 bets I'm laying must have broken their server.
Report .Marksman. March 10, 2022 9:57 PM GMT
Well spotted Pete, I am on Linux.  The give away must have been the path to the csv file!
Have you pressed the "Matched" tab and set the correct date range?  Because I have just done it again and it still works.
Report .Marksman. March 10, 2022 9:58 PM GMT
"Open" tab must be highlighted too.
Report PeteTheBloke March 11, 2022 7:21 PM GMT
Yeah, I think it might work next Saturday when a few bets have been settled. Thanks anyway.

Ubuntu here. I've been in love with Linux for years although they insist on a Mac at work
and I can just about live with that. A lot of my work is in the shell anyway.
Report PeteTheBloke February 23, 2023 8:18 AM GMT
Has this happened again? My account is hundreds of pounds short this morning?
Report ambush March 2, 2023 3:29 PM GMT
same here
Report PeteTheBloke March 2, 2023 8:27 PM GMT
I can't work out what they've done this time.
Report cobra sam March 13, 2023 1:03 PM GMT
laid 3 non runners in grand annual,,page showing nothing and account statement same!!!
Report geoff m March 13, 2023 1:14 PM GMT
Ive not had the same problem this year. All non runners showing as 1 and included in the profit loss against each horse.
Report strontium March 13, 2023 1:16 PM GMT
Might be void Cobra? Around 15 horses were balloted out.
Report cobra sam March 13, 2023 1:27 PM GMT
yep  i think they were balloted out,,,i thought they were losers on bf,different rukes for hcaps isnt it,,,doh
Post Your Reply
<CTRL+Enter> to submit
Please login to post a reply.


Instance ID: 13539