I'm sure champ is a gold cup horse and we might have another

Chantry House? Won a novice Grade 1 over 3 miles. Surely got to think about the Gold Cup.

Yep, has to be Chantry.
Doing ok so far on the road to top staying chases.

Lmao chantry wouldn't count if it started yesterday,the novice improver is on the sidelines and wasn't at best when ran at Cheltenham so with an Irish 123 in gold cup I don't see the novice challenge being worrying but with nr's ye never know but sure the Irish will probably have a few h'cappers that would still win the race

"We've got a Gold Cup horse" doesn't mean it will win, just that it might run.

Here we go here we go here we go

Exactly Stront.
He’s an improver.
No one on here knows how good he could be.

You coukd say that about 10000 horses in training
Well done budd !

My point was that some on here think they do know.
They don’t.

True Budd. I doubt anyone who saw Synchronised being scrubbed around Uttoxeter in the Midlands National thought he'd be winning the Gold Cup a year later.

You get berated on here for speaking the truth about training racehorses.

I received this abuse for suggesting people were guessing when trying to name Gold Cup runners 15 months out ....

Hibore29 Dec 20 21:16Joined: 23 Jun 07 | Topic/replies: 2,741 | Blogger: Hibore's blog
Irishone has won most stupid post of 2020. Hands down.

Then we get .....


irishone29 Dec 20 21:25Joined: 22 Sep 06 | Topic/replies: 46,986 | Blogger: irishone's blog
If you think you can name two horses that will take part in the 2022 Gold Cup


GO AHEAD !

Name them now and see if it can be done, Budd already has!



Hibore
Hibore29 Dec 20 21:34Joined: 23 Jun 07 | Topic/replies: 2,741 | Blogger: Hibore's blog
Do I get 100/1 if they run Laugh

Santini and Envoi Allen
Minella Indo and Monkfish

Can I have 2 bets.


Santini has more or less been retired but I hope he comes back.
Envoi has a dodgy injury
Monkfish similarly

We still have five months to go!


So the most stupid post of 2020 actually turns out to be the most intelligent.

Good to see you are learning budd.....

buddeliea23 Oct 21 19:56Joined: 19 Mar 04 | Topic/replies: 15,786 | Blogger: buddeliea's blog
My point was that some on here think they do know.
They don’t.

Whatever mate.
I think this is probably boring people now.

Back to the horses imo.

I'm not sure if I should post this as I don't know the history here.
Trying to read between the lines of when the post was made(looks pre new year)to name participants in the race anyway no matter what took me a while (I am slow forgive me)to realise it was 2022 as 2 novices were included.
If this is helping people in ante post betting how could it be boring people

My point was to agree with Budd's statement

"My point was that some on here think they do know.....They don’t."

The original posts were in another thread entitled "monkfish" where the point was made that people were just guessing so far out from a Gold Cup , which is now proven.


You can come on this forum with information direct from the stable as I did for Presenting Percys attempt at the gold cup .....some 9 months in advance of the race.

The result was contemptuous even though what I was advising was effectively a trade which ultimately paid off.

Vast majority on here are trying to live their dreams, which is a shame really.

11 Feb 21 21:12 Joined: 22 Sep 06 | Topic/replies: 46,990 | Blogger: irishone's blog
Theres only one horse
That finished behind Champ
Last March
That has actually surprised me since
Castlebawn West won the Paddy Power
And was unseated at Cheltenham
I dont do form usually
But I thought I would have a look
At what the runners that finished the race
Have actually accomplished since ?

Sweet fanny adams .....



cloone river
cloone river 11 Feb 21 22:58 Joined: 23 Dec 04 | Topic/replies: 1,313 | Blogger: cloone river's blog
I dont do form usually?Do you use a pin?You need to look again at the horses that finished behind Champ irishone.



irishone
irishone 12 Feb 21 05:39 Joined: 22 Sep 06 | Topic/replies: 46,990 | Blogger: irishone's blog
I dont do form usually?Do you use a pin?

Definitely. Its turned out far more reliable than some of the cr4pp you read on here !


Thanks for the advice Cloone .....

Minella Indo .....won a E60K four runner race schase at navan, 4th in THE Gold Cup...but behind the storyteller and kemboy 6 lengths ....thats a worry !

Allaho ..... 4th in the Savilles , won an E35k schase at Thurles beat Balko !

.
Battle over doyen.... Won a E60k at Downroyal ,4th and 6th since

Aye Right, 5 runs no wins
Slate House , 2 runs pulled up and 3rd
CopperHead , won three times last was a £40k renoldstown at ascot, pulled up twice since
Easy Game , won e35k at Gowran bt the storyteller
Pym.... Won a 24k three runner at Sandown


Apart from castlebawn what makes anyone think that any of that field can come back a year on and win a  gold cup

Nothing from that race has won anything 100k or over yet you are putting up Champ as a potential winner of a £625k schase

.....all recent winners had the form in the book , even Coneygree had been round Cheltenham three times and had won 3 on the spin


irishone
irishone 12 Feb 21 05:45 Joined: 22 Sep 06 | Topic/replies: 46,990 | Blogger: irishone's blog
* nothing from that race...

Except of course CASTLEBAWN WEST !

Minella Indo and Allaho

Let’s leave it at that Irish that you are as bigger guesser as we are.

Let’s talk horses right or wrong this year. Budd is right what he says.

The 2021 top guesser arrives ,(aka Nicky Hendersons love child ) wants to talk about horses so lets talk horses, Santini and Champ ?

How about talking about winners put up last year ?

Appreciate it
Honeysuckle
Galvin
Put the kettle on
The Shunter
Belfast Banter

...and dont write off Castlebawn West

Budd....... leaving aside the top guesser !

Even the trainers dont know, as I am sure you are aware.

I have spoken to quite a few trainers in Ireland and the ones who appear to agree with your statement dont say "he (or she) should run well" . There are plenty that do , and on balance, I think I would be better off laying based on that advice.
The horses at Galway on Saturday and Sunday were a far better showcase. The hype surrounding cheltenhan and the fantastic marketing they do is well clear of that practised by racecourses in ireland. Consequently great horses that will win at Cheltenham 2022 go under the radar from now until Christmas. Which is great ,because the prices represent such grat value

Its the day when a trainer slips me a ton and says "put that on for me please mate".... that I really look forward to.

Like a dog with a bone.

"Lets keep to the horses !"

Chantry House's form couldn't have been boosted much more this weekend.

Dont think chantry houses form was boosted at all.

You are talking different tracks, different seasons and growing horses .

Possibly growing something else also

Indeed. Collateral form is always inexact. But Shan Blue was runnning away with the Charlie Hall, and Chantry House beat him 32 lengths in the Grade 1 at Aintree, and 12 lengths in the Grade 1 at Cheltenham. Fusil Raffles did win the Charlie Hall and Chantry beat him at Cheltenham. Fiddlerontheroof won the Colin Parker, and Chantry beat him 58 lengths in the Geade 1 at Aintree. Those results certianly make Chantry's form look better than it did at the time. And perhaos last season's novices are better than we thought?

Stron….don’t bite. You are correct of course.

All you get on here is Shishkin isn’t any good…..Chantry House isn’t any good….blah blah blah  because they are British and/or trained by Henderson.

Unfortunately sensible conversation or debate isn’t possible on here anymore. I don’t think anyone can be bothered to post anything as it just starts an argument with either of them.

Chantry house form is 'Top Drawer' get stuck in.
Give it a good go Hi bore ye boy-ye

Shan blue chantry house fusil raffles and fiddlerontheroof will be lucky to win 3 races between them from today,forget the 2 already on the board

"Collateral form is always inexact"

So why stick to it ?

Hendersons love child still hasnt got over Santini and Champ by the looks of it

This thread is about whether Chantry is a credible Gold Cup runner (not whether he would win). After this weekend, it looks like he is. We'll find out more at the weekend as he's supposed to run in a graduation chase at Sandown.

For what it's worth, I think the likley Gold Cup winner comes from Ireland and did not run at the weekend :)

I'll decide what the thread is about you mentioned chantry house? Not me....so shiskin could step up although unlikely but Hendo could have another Best mate war of attrition kicking King all ran in supreme its not impossible Shiskin could line up but best chance lies in QM against a few Irish unlike a host of them in GC

Bentring
Bentring 18 Oct 21 21:56 Joined: 25 Dec 20 | Topic/replies: 194

Nicky posts on here,he has to with a statement like that wonder if other one is a mare


Do you think Shishkin is a Mare ? I’m trying to understand what this thread is about and give you a sensible reply.

Go Figure

Normally when you start a thread  “wonder if the other one is a mare” you know the name of the horse in question or what your talking about.

Obviously not in this case.

Sorry Bentring, I didn't realise you owned the internet. However, your rudeness is wholly unnecessary.

Hibore, you are right, it's not possible to have a sensible debate here. I'll be off.

Hi bore with 'Go' it was tongue'n'cheek,I wish you every success with you're horse.
Strontium only having a laugh,jp doesn't need a day out with an also ran in GC.
The post about the 4 winning the 3 races,where they will run will be so difficult as those races are plus staying sound would help their cause.
It's early season and anything can happen but chantry house jumping in open company will be interesting.
WATCH THIS SPACE.

"Hibore, you are right, it's not possible to have a sensible debate here. I'll be off"

Great post from Hibore, best he has ever done. Debate on here consisted of guessers and fantasists. Lets have more people on this forum who regularly put up cheltenham festival winners or winning trades. If you want a load of dear johns, waffle and fantasy strontium take hibore with to thin jockeys lol

When I look at the GC market what strikes me is that the 1st and 2nd from last year appear to me to be the value, 6 and 8's seem to me to be very fair after last year's race, with EA the only other one that interests me at this stage. Couldn't have CH at his price, just not good enough IMO and can't believe that Champ is as low as 20's myself. What's Galvin doing at 20's too, taking the week ends run at face value obviously, surely he hasn't got the class for a GC.

What "class" should he be in duffy ?

I’d have thought Elliott would have been delighted having his horse beat the Gold Cup winner 4 lengths around Down Royal. 20/1 is arguably the value angle in the race.
Didn’t look outclassed to me.

Irish,

He's in the right class because that's where he has to be, however, being in the right class and possessing the requisite class to win the race are different things, aren't they, it's another way of saying that I don't think he's good enough and I believe that he's too short.

The value IMO is 6 and 8 on the 1st and 2nd from last year.

What a race last year was, a thorough test with two horses pulling clear, the winner coming off an unsatisfactory prep, he's a thorough stayer, remember his freakish performance in the AB where he pulled the whole way round!!!, the monster jump at the 2nd last in the GC he wouldn't be suited by DR, was probably unfit and I bet De Bromhead would have been more than happy with the run. Nicholl's would have had Frodon hard fit and Galvin was race fit.

Galvin is a National Hunt Chase winner so you could argue he’s demonstrated more stamina than Minella, so DR wouldn’t be the ideal track for him either.
Still not sure how beating a Gold Cup winner who is rated far higher than you by 4 lengths proves you don’t have the class to win a Gold Cup ? De Broomhead said MI goes well fresh and was pretty straight for his reappearance which led to his price being around evens. Either he was completely wrong or Galvin put in a credible run.

Galvin is a class one chaser duffy ...what class is a gold cup horse please ?

The other fellah indo is hard to train and get right. HDB will be well happy with that run.

Hibore, national winners have demonstrated more stamina too, but it's stamina coupled with the demands of the quality of race that counts and I reckon that Galvin would be found out in a GC but Galvin IS a class one chaser, in the same way that probably most of the runners in a GC are, but they are not all equal are they.

We're looking at the market in November and to me judging by the standard that the front two set in last years race I think their prices are the best value, I see no reason why anything from last year can reverse form and only EA from the novices would interest me as I think that him and MI are the two best horses in training and if he stayed well he'd be a massive threat but both him and Allaho have big questions over the trip and they probably both wouldn't run in the race anyhow, CH and Galvin don't look good enough to me, and well, of course something can jump out of left field but at this stage 6's and 8's look the best options to me.

However it's only an opinion, guesswork if you like.

Why does envoi dallen interest you duffy,he hasnt proved himself at three miles and the trainer is talking ryanair or queen mother ?

Duffy, I’m not questioning which horses you think are value or think will win come March (I’m leaning towards APT but have no bets).
I was just asking why you thought “at face value” after Saturday Galvin didn’t have the class to win a gold cup. It’s fine you don’t fancy him whatever he does on the track…it was just a strange comment when he beat Minella quite comfortably. I think your last post explains better.

Irish,

He interests me because after being a bit of a doubter through his novice hurdle season I loved his performances as a novice chaser, the way he travels and as a staying chaser he appears to have push button acceleration which looks strange to see, I'm not going to be disheartened at how it went wrong eventually last season, when you listened to Elliott and particularly Russell you do get a strong impression that there is just something extra special that is experienced from him.

I'm not bothered what the trainer is saying at this stage with regards targets because although he may indeed run in those shorter races and the speed he shows does strongly suggest a stamina issue might well exist they absolutely must explore the option of a GC and attempt to find out if the trip might suit him as he's just too good a horse not to.

Not at that price mate !

Do you mean that if it was a given that they were going to try the longer trip the market would already have reacted to it and he'd be shorter as they would not want to take any chances with him??? I see what you mean, disappointing though if it turns out that way.

Henry gets horses distances wrong regularly. He's got APT and Indo  for the gold cup.hes got PTKO in the big one on Wednesday , he's got honeysuckle for Tuesday . The one you might consider is the Ryanair ...but we are guessing as usual

Chantry House did all he needed yesterday. Seems to go better over a longer trip as well.
Form of his last two Grade 1’s as good as anything seen this year with Shan Blue and Fiddlerontheroof.
Not a sexy horse but maybe one we should take seriously now. Probably go to Cheltenham in January for Trials day for a proper test.

Memories Dawn Run and Buck House,that race yesterday brought a tear to my eye when you laugh so much you cry

I’m glad Chantry gave you such entertainment

Bentring

I'm still unconvinced by Chantry House. His Marsh and Mildmay wins could have been fortuitous given the fall of odds-on Envoi Allen (former) and Espoir De Romay (latter whist infront). However, he'd be better than the enigmatic Santini who'd surprise too if a change in scenery resulted in a change of mental attitude towards horseracing.

PP offering 33/1 KG and Gold Cup double for Chantry and 16/1 Minella. Seen worse bets if you fancy either today.

Well that King George  threw the Good Cup reckoning above out the window
Problem now is minella may be a spring horse
Tornado has good Cheltenham form from  a bumper
The third and fourth can't do three miles Cheltenham GOLD CUP pace
Chantry can't jump at pace .....

Willie must be laughing his bolleaux off

Minella Indo seems to be a stone an a half better at Cheltenham than anywhere else. He was a maiden when he won the Albert Bartlett (though admittedly he ran into Allaho in his prep race for that). His form figures last winter were F4 at Leopardstown, then he wins the Gold Cup. He did win a G1 novice hurdle at Punchestown, but other than that, all his decent form is at Cheltenham. Too soon to write him off I'd say, and 10/1 for the GC looks an overreaction.

As for Chantry House, I thought Kempton would not suit him, but I expected a lot better than that and a staying on third or fourth. He was awful today, not quick enough and not in the right head space at all.

Very similar to Irish racing now
There are several top class chasers over three miles
All capable of winning grade ones
No stand out
It's all about who turns up on the day

Cheltenham Gold Cup
Matched
Average Odds

Back Galvin
for £11.24 @ 49.74 to win £547.84


Odd change comes in handy sometimes on here !

I mentioned 4horses on this thread earlier,wonder how they're getting on now,also the franking of form by other English horses maybe eome day this will work

Good shout bentring

I think , and it's only my thoughts , haven't heard anyone else say it. Rachel gave frost too much respect. She went for frosts inside straight away attempting to match frodon.

Rachel got the ar5e ache when frost took the bend at the end of the back straight and cut her off, then top of the home straight she goes up the inside of frost and frost goes wide off the bend. Rachel is intent on taking frodon on.

Frodon gets fired up and battles back and they hit the all weather crossing and indo loses it .....Rachel can't get him back .  That's two in a row beaten by frodon and unable to do anything about it.

I think she will ride a completely different race in the GC. She will be looking for someone else to take frodon on ...if it runs.

Dec 26, 2021 -- 8:12PM, irishone wrote:

Cheltenham Gold CupMatchedAverage OddsBack Galvinfor £11.24 @ 49.74 to win £547.84Odd change comes in handy sometimes on here !

NICE !!

It looks likely Hendo will have egg on his face for making such a bold statement about Champ as Champ is an unlikely participant here.