QUEEN MOTHER 2022

The only way Shiskin gets beat in the CC is todays race at Ascot took a lot out of him.
Surely 53 days will be a long enough recovery time?

Energumene is 7/2 for The Ryanair (with a run), but 16 here. A trader's paradise knowing Mr Mullins' psyche.

I agree with EB1 how much did it take out of the horse

Just a brilliant race and fantastic performance from both horses.

Shishkin should be more suited to Cheltenham I would think.

Can't see why Mullins would go for the Ryansir after that.

Energumene had the harder race having tried to make all and emptied from the last. On quicker ground he might have got away from Shishkin but I can't see the result being reversed if they meet again.

Why would they want to take on their own horse Allaho in the Ryanair?

I reckon his best chance would be to set a much steadier pace in the CC if he could get away with it although that in itself would be contrary to what CPS wants, and try and catch out Shishkin in that period when he's finding his stride before he stays on strongly, Shishkin is a lot like Altior in that respect but Altior never had the opposition to capitalize on it apart from Douvan who would have won but for falling that day and it's that part of his run style they should look at exploiting as a strong test will just play into Shishkins hands......tough task though

I thought they half tried it yesterday, it looked as if Townend steadied it a bit at one point.

We know PTKO can find a stone from somewhere, but Willie has Chacon in the wings as well. I think Energumene is a right handed horse and emptied out last hundred yards. If the horse hadn't set the pace ? Something else will at Cheltenham (probably PTKO) but Shiskin finally showed his potential over fences yesterday , but jumped dodgy and survived the bumping and looks a shoe in if poison Nicky gets him there. All of which asks is 4\6 value ? , at this stage I think it is but couldnt back it because like some on here, dont believe in Henderson and didn't like the way shiskin won.

Townend did no wrong. I'd have accepted the outcome if De Boinville gave up after the peck and several lengths down on Energumene going to the last; the way Shishkin managed to take-off after the last was phenomenal.

Don't think he "took off" as such, he stayed on well and ground down the 2nd.

I don't think Energumene will reverse it either but they'll certainly have to try, the picture is clearer for the Mullins camp after Saturday and I'm sure they will come up with some sort of plan to have a go with.

Probably just get him fit

You don't think he was fit on Saturday?

think hitman is value here at 33/1 each way with billies ,possible he could go elsewhere but too big  and worth the chance imo ,that was a good run in the tingle creek and missing the clarence house wont have harmed him while the winner and 2nd had tough races and we dont know how much it will take out of them . only a 6yo and room for lots more improvement and is a decent jumper .

If only this race was at Kempton then Energumene would be fav, and probably be triumphant too; Cheltenham, Shishkin the victor again, all things being equal.

Agree with foyles
Fantastic each way value in this market now

captain guinness could be worth a few quid at 50 on here ,got a good bit to find with energumene on some of  last seasons form but traded low in the closing stages of the  tingle creek and wernt beaten that far into 3rd with nube negra behind as said below we dont know how the clarence house 1st 2 will react to that hard race and capt guiness is a possible for the dublin chase and that will tell us more lightly raced and room for improvement 50 looks far too big atm.

Can only see the race concerning the big two and Nuba Negra ....I recall Badsworth Boy taking on only 4 others....would not be surprised if this cuts up similar....with Aintree and the Ryanair being more attractive to some.

could be right 626 and by the odds you should be but plenty of so called good things have been  turned over at the festival .

I can't see past Greanateen and Eldorado Allen if there is a market without the other two. Greanateen is improving and beat Hitman 5 lengths. EA beat Hitman a length at Exeter and didn't get the trip against Mister Fisher imo. Did I not read that Nube Negra was injured?

Not sure about this being a good e/w race with a view to finding an outsider, you're more than likely fighting over one place and have Greaneteen CPS, Nube Negra all after that spot too.

Also, this hard race business which seems to have become a "thing" ever since the Cyrname v Altior clash which saw that race cited as the reason for their substandard runs after, but isn't it simply more likely that Altior was on the downgrade and Cyrname was over rated?

These are supremely talented athletes with the best of the best when it comes to training establishments, if one hard race is enough to break them then how about the lowlier horses having hard races every day of the week. Over the years we've seen many great clashes which did not result in broken horses.

Fook me, Walsh went one step further on the horses mouth podcast when he said that Energumene might not come back because he would have realized that he had been beat and was half suggesting that that in itself might be enough to send the horse to the psychiatrists couch

no denying the front 2 look ahead of the field on ratings and form and plenty could be frightened off and go elsewhere butlets not forget chacan pour sour defi du seul and douvan all looked head and shoulders above the opposition in recent years and all started odds on and were beaten ,"  excuses were made after and may have been valid but history shows they were turned over on the day it mattered most.
shish and energ may fight out the finish the betting tells us that but in my eyes far from a 2 horse race and if you dont buy a ticket you wont win the raffle .hope its a decent sized field but even if its a handfull the ante post  prices at this time could be value each way you could have 3 places  now in what turns out a  a 5  or 6 runner field and anything can happen in the weeks up to the race.

duffy
duffy26 Jan 22 05:43
Not sure about this being a good e/w race


Check the results pal FFS

irish calm down...I'm not taking about the "race" generally, I'm talking about this race "in particular", I thought I made that clear but obviously not in your case.

My argument stands that in all probability you are fighting for one place and that isn't a race that comes under the filthy e/w race.

I do concede that it is possible to back all the 33/1 shots in the market and put forward a round about argument why they might fill a place but that's all in the "you never know" category.

What we do know is that one and maybe both of these horses are the best since SS, and with all things being equal will fill 2 of the first 3 spots.

Foyles,

I disagree with you, it is a two horse race, of course if a horse gets injured as in Douvan's case or falls down it changes but on all known form there isn't a case ad that is not a basis for calling it a good e/w race IMO. Like I said, there is a group of horses immediately behind the front two with better arguments even before you get to the rags.

irish,

What's your idea of the first 3?

Just for context, Greanateen was aimed at the Tingle Creek, where as Hitmans main target was the Haldon Gold Cup.
So it’s hard to state the Exeter and Sandown races as form between the two.
Exeter was a prep race for Greanateen and the Tingle Creek was an after thought for Hitman.

There is market on Betfair exchange to bet without Shishkin and Energumene. 4/1 Nube isn’t that bad if you missed the boat on Shishy.

Exeter was also a handicap so Greaneteen would have needed to run to a massive mark to give more than a stone to Hitman and Eldorado. It was surely a prep there but the Tingle Creek established him as a clear third best behind Shishkin and Energumene to me.

FOYLESWAR06 Nov 21 14:34Joined: 09 Jan 11 | Topic/replies: 23,081 | Blogger: FOYLESWAR's blog
" ! also backed nube negra each way at 25s "


Another good bet foyles ! Only 8 and a big shout for it last weekend

Duffy
Just read that sorry.....
PTKO needs it all to fall her way and 25\1 e w value HURRY !
CPS  cant back it too old , fragile and suffers sea sick
SHISH. no value
ENER.  might not be there ,waiting game poss place @ evens +
NN.    E W VALUE without a doubt but ...missed 25\1 price

Cant see a clearout unless ground changes

Another weak finish from the hitman, still got him down as not to be trusted.

Most of Nicholls horses have been finishing weak so I wouldn’t include that in you’re findings buddy.

Had it down long before the nicholls bad run, not my type of horse in a finish.

Not worth the time is it

Might get a place if fallers (like 6)

PTKO has no matches on Champion Chase market as I type with 49/1 no takers. Back into 14/1 in mares on here so no need to be Sherlock to know where she’s going.

Looks like the field could be 8 or less looking at market trends. 3 top quality horses at the head of market so will be a cracker if they all turn up.

* in Champion Chase not the Mares

We did so because we were aware of the significant failings of the investigation

1. one that was woefully inadequate,
2. lacked the necessary independence and
3. allowed outside interference.
4. significant inconsistencies in the evidence.
5. b h a enhanced the charges that were issued
but  no new evidence.
6. investigation into a serious data breach
7. PJA lost confidence in the Disciplinary Panel due to ...a long and striking track record of the Disciplinary Panel’s failure to ever criticise the BHA, its case management and its processes.

Willie Mullins has nailed his colours to Chacun Pour Soi’s mast ahead of Energumene in the Betway Queen Mother Champion Chase.

Despite the fact Energumene is trading at around half the odds of the 10-year-old, Mullins thinks the six-times Grade One winner is more than capable of claiming a first Festival win.

PMSL ......  And ptko still in it

PTKO in foal ?

Anyone else hear that ?

We were a little bit disappointed with her in the Shloer Chase on her comeback run, but the good ground probably meant that it wasn’t enough of a stamina test for her. We tried her over a longer trip at Fairyhouse and that didn’t work out, so we’ve freshened her up and she’s in mighty form. She loves Cheltenham and we are keen to let her defend her crown in the Queen Mother Champion Chase.


NO THAT CANT BE RIGHT ??????   HIBORE KNOWS BEST !

Ptko no chance- poor race last year. CPS no chance either doesn't get up hill. Jumped the last in front last tear and they all ran past him. He's not going to improve at his age - shishkin certainty.

Using cheltenham history as a guide , ptko beats cps and shiskin gets up the hill. NN thereabouts. Willie doesnt know why cps doesnt deliver overseas. Poor race ? History may not agree.
Politologue, altior, sprinter, special tiara,
Somersby even..... Showed history very important

rishone30 Nov 21 08:56Joined: 22 Sep 06 | Topic/replies: 47,894 | Blogger: irishone's blog
QUEEN MOTHER 2022
irishone
22 Apr 21 22:02

"only thing stopping her will be the going"

Henry not taking the other one
Shiskin overpriced
Can't make one mistake let alone two at Cheltenham
Willie wobbling on energumie
Willie all over chacon (min comes to mind)
Happy with PTKO tbh

Quite a bit of rain coming will help Energumene and Put the kettle on.

Shishkin stays up he should win this
comfortably.You could throw a blanket
over the 1st five home last year.The 5th,
Sceau Royal was pretty unlucky in the run
aswell.Could've been a mediocre race to me.

It's all about price  and  I can find enough excuses to be able to support CPS at 6's.

that battle between shishkin and energumene could have left a mark on both we wont know till the qm despite what connections say about their wellbeing etc,may be they have had enough time and be tough enough  to get over it but energumene went hard form the front and shishkin didnt go past him till close home and it could have took a lot more out of them  .  the altior /cyrname clash both were never really the same since just something to bear in mind if you think this is cut and dried.

Altior was running over the wrong trip and he
won on his next start.He came 2nd in the next 2
which were his final races.The last of those
his 18th Chse start @11 yrs of age.
Cyrname was just overrated.
They have no bearing on Shiskin in this year's
Chmpn Chse.

you may be right ,all about opinions and price and imo  those 2 had a tough race and i wouldnt want to be taking short prices about the  2, energumene might go elsewhere as said its all about opinions and i dont back at short prices anyway so the front 2 are not for me  ,the prices say shishkin is the most likely winner but plenty of most likely winners are beat.

^^ Your opinion is a genuine one in that Your thoughts may be justified and you don't have to pay to find out

The idea about CPS not being able to travel may have been over played, he had a problem after Sandown and was visually too bad to be true that day and what got him beat last year wasn't that he couldn't travel over the Irish sea it was because the race was not run to suit, they never went quick and CPS was asked to pick up after the last which is contrary to what his strength is. CPS wants a race akin to what Allaho did in the Ryannair, he wins his races by setting a strong pace and breaking up the field he is not a turn of foot merchant.

Mullins team know that a strong pace set by Energumene will give them two bites of the cherry, firstly, Energumene out front setting a strong gallop gives him  a fair chance but also serves to give CPS exactly what he needs to get his best chance of winning as he'll travel off of it comfortably and be able to keep it up right to the line, and if Shishkin is better so be it.

6/1 on the assumption that he will get that crucial end to end gallop is fair enough for me.

If the Mullins team run this tactically like you  think Duffy they have no chance of winning. The only way shuskin gets beat is if it turns into a sprint from the back of 3rd last or the top of the hill... Going flat out from the start on soft ground will suit Shiskin to the ground and he will stay on passed Energumene up the hill.

With the risk of having egg on my face in 2 weeks time I think Chacon is well past his best. This myth that the ride cost him the race last year is nonsense. On his previous start before last years CC he was held up behind Notebook and Fakir and came between them coming to the last, his acceleration from the back of the last was something to behold. Whether it was travelling,  the track or the hill he wasn't able to do that last year when ideally positioned the whole way. Brill at punch after and ran a shocker at Sandown. Wasn't great last time either when he beat nothing (time was a lot slower than the novice 2m chase the previous day).

I'd be worried for Energumene if Willie genuinely thinks that chacun has a better chance of beating shiskin than Energumene had. Would give  Nube Negra a decent chance (on v good ground) and PTKO a decent chance on soft

duffy you on a wind up ?
The horse is glass not steel
Willies been going on about travel problems for two years
Would not back him until the day
More missed appearances than Prince Andrew

Dessie
Chacon stays all day as well
I wouldnt be surprised if PTKO and Energumene went at it hammer and tongs and if Shiskin can handle it fair enough
But the price is no value
What we dont know about Chacun for me is weighed down by what we do know
He's glass, hates travel, might not get there
6\1 on the day is enticing but 8s or 10s once the crew start spreading rumours  will be worth an each way bet
Unlikely in view of the owners habits

I couldn't have chacun at any price... place lay material in my view depending on the rest showing up. He isn't as good as he was last year and he simply won't come up the hill whether they go fast for slow. The last furlong in Cheltenham I steeper than anywhere else and he was looking for somewhere to lie down coming up it last year.

If Energumene goes off like the clappers he will be beaten by further than he was last time. His best hope is to stack them up and sprint for home after the 3rd last. Mare will stay well too and I see they are predicting soft now which rules Nube Negra out for me.


What will Nicholls run here?

Energumene very very weak in the market now...last matched at6...nowt holding iy up...looks doomed

If the Mullins team run this tactically like you  think Duffy they have no chance of winning. The only way shiskin gets beat is if it turns into a sprint from the back of 3rd last or the top of the hill... Going flat out from the start on soft ground will suit Shiskin to the ground and he will stay on passed Energumene up the hill.

If Energumene was running in this without CPS I would agree with you and I said this immediately after the Ascot run as it would enable Energumene to perhaps capitalize on the moment or two that Shishkin takes to wind up in a similar fashion to what could have got Altior beat, but in Altior's time there was no quality able to carry it out but with CPS in the field they will play the percentages and set a strong pace as I think that will give both their horses a chance and I disagree that CPS could win in a sprint and I think that they think that too.

irish,

Yes we know he's fragile, but we are talking about how the race will be run on the assumption that he runs in it and you just said that 6's on the day is enticing, but he's 6/1 now NRNB, so the travel issue is moot and if he gets there may well be shorter

Yes I am struggling to get on with anything duffy at the moment.
Do you get your money back straightaway if its a non runner with that NRNB duffy ?
Or do you have to wait until the race goes off ?

I can see you dont listen to Willie.
Shiskin made two mistakes and beat energumie fair and square.
Willie took the beating and doesnt appear to have anything but CPS on his mind. He will aim it at Shiskins weakness and hopes a mistake occurs.
Not many win after one mistake at Cheltenham let alone two

Not looking good re Energumene. Big drifter - will we poss get an announcement from WPM in coming days? Something definitely on the go here. Watch this space!!!!

Dessie
What will Nicholls run here?

Frodo ????? 

Hope he dont take it out the ultima , some great weights in that at present !

Follow up to my post yesterday.  Energumene now out to 8 on betfair. CPS now well shorter than him. All not well with Energ????* Willie mullins announcement shortly????
Certainly not looking good.

Energumene is a concern given his stablemate CPS is more fancied. However, I cannot see him being rerouted to the Ryanair (Alaho). Maybe the Ascot exertion had taken its toll. Punchestown?

Can get 9/2 with a couple of books too. Great value nrnb to me.
Surely if he isn't 100% they wouldn't chance him.
If he is 100% fine he only has a length to make up, Townend will ride and the price comparison with Shishkin is ridiculous.
Henderson horses not firing either.

I cannot see past Shiskin , unless they get him on the floor by going hard early .

I do hope Nuba Negra wins .....I have a double on a golfer who won at a big price with it ...20K

Energumene had a bit of a stone bruise.

I said on here I had doubts about Energumie getting there, willies attitude was pretty negative after the shiskin defeat. A stone bruise is over and done with in ten days but he cant gallop the horse. Fact is over the years he would know anywhere and everyhere there was a stone in  carlow.

i think that ascot race has took a fair bit out of energumene and who knows how its affected shishkin !

Energumene apparently is recovering well from recently a stone bruise; Walsh has a spin on him. Nevertheless this happened just 2 weeks to the big gig; drifted like a barge (out to 22 here) last couple of days. And, stable has a long history profiting from no-shows at big gigs.

Let's hope he shows up and do battle with Shishkin again.

justr lay ptko not a hope.

and on that note henrys confidence  on ptko has gone through the roof ^

not a hope foyle and yew know it.

"stable has a long history profiting from no-shows at big gigs."

You are one sad fecker impissible

Wheres yer evidence ?

"stable has a long history profiting from no-shows at big gigs."

You are one sad fecker impissible

Wheres yer evidence ?

Callisto ...

Lay a four time cheltenham winner and reigning champion at 20's?

Not a good idea mate

shishkin 2 mistakes last time still won obviously top class but make one in the queen mother and its a different ball game ,may well win the price tells us that but is he value ? many  will say yes and lump on the" banker " but i have 2 running for me at big odds in ptko and nube negra each way and wouldnt swap with the fav.

Well played foyles
The lads in the family (the mother, two sons and their neighboyr) who own the mare have had some great times over at Cheltenham and there was never any way they weren't going to bring her back again. At the end of the day you go to the best trainers to get their advice but Henry was indecisive because he didnt know and was willing to try anything. Never mind the  bullsh1t put up on here by the guessers who acutually want the horse to get beat !

Nicky on shishkin......

hope we do declare him, but if we don’t I hope everybody will understand,” added the Seven Barrows handler. “The horse comes first and he needs to work very well for us to be happy.

“Personally I think he ranks at the top of the division, but we’re not going to prove it if we’re only going out 95% fit - there’s no point in doing that.


Willie .....He’s back to himself. He was very good all week and he trained very well,” said Mullins.

“I thought I had him very ready the last couple of times and he disappointed so this week I decided I was just going to get him here at 95 per cent and I think he’s better like that.

“He’s been pleasing me at home doing that, so that’s what I’ll be doing for the future and hopefully I can get him across the water in that sort of form.

well thats good that there having great times at Cheltenham and no way would they
miss it ....and the 10/1 joke price factored in...and whats been available over the winter,,,well i wont mind if the mare repeats

Theres one of them saying there is no point in going out 95% fit and the other saying he thinks his horse is better 95% fit.

These are the top two Cheltenham trainers !

yeah seen that...mullins referring to CPS only tho...Hendo could end up with no runners,,lolol

irishone
irishone
Date Joined: 22 Sep 06
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05 Mar 22 10:33Joined: 22 Sep 06 | Topic/replies: 47,995 | Blogger: irishone's blog
Callisto ...

Lay a four time cheltenham winner and reigning champion at 20's?

Not a good idea mate

agree that the stats are great and im not for one moment suggesting that its a donkey, but this is opposition at a level never faced.

Maybe callisto, maybe !

yer sorry Irish im not at all having a pop at the horse.

Nice bit of rain due today but we aint had it yet !

Fly in the ointment is Envoi Allen. He was lauded, but failed to deliver; different drip could bring long overdue and just reward.

Think Willie got him fit,is all things equal impossible,keep that drip pumping

Great stuff from Mullins.
I remember Seamus Graham telling another trainer, who became and still is a top greyhound trainer, that the worst thing you can do is try to put a bit more in.  That can do much more damage than good he told him.  Once they're right leave them alone.
I suppose only the very best trainers have that confidence.

Shame PTKO ran in the wrong race this year….egos often take over. Would have had an even money chance looking at the result in the Mares Chase.

Off to the sales at Aintree next according to RP. Interesting to see who buys her.

Hi bore trying to get the last word .....


Shishkin .....discuss

Not sure what happened to Shishkin. It obviously wasn’t right after jumping first flight….lucky I didn’t back it. I was on Nuba so got most of money back NRNB.

So you don’t think PTKO ran in the wrong race ? Must have been an expensive lesson for you especially when the ground came in her favour.

Go on hibore keep it up ....

Nicky Henderson has confirmed Shishkin has been diagnosed with "a pretty rare bone condition," and will miss the rest of the season.

The eight-year-old was pulled up during the Champion Chase at Cheltenham - won by Energumene - with his poor performance later blamed on the ground.

However on Tuesday Henderson gave an update on his star chaser, saying his condition is "mendable

Glad something has come to light as it was obvious he was sick.
Hope he will co.e back but I would have serious doubts personally.

Hendo chose to disclose this rare bone condition of Shishkin to his paymaster, Unibet the bookie. Any doubt where his allegiance lies has been completely proven. I hope he spoke to Mrs J Donnelly before anyone else.

What do you think?
Of course the owners would have been told before he spoke to the media

I hope so otherwise Shishkin could be going to pasture new. Hendo was so categoric it was the ground responsible for the dismal run. Similarly, he said Epatante was all pace after talking to her pilot, and could do battle again with Honeysuckle at Punchestown. Where's she headed? Aintree Hurdle over 2m 4f.

Bookie man speak with fork-tongue.

Hendo is a creature of habit to an extraordinary degree. It's better to look at what he's done in the past that what he says. He quite often sends his Champion Hurdle horse to the Aintree Hurdle.

Poison Nicky has done it too often now. He knew the ground was dodgy so he should have taken the horse out. Nichols did it and caused havoc in the ring with BMG and hendo would have never let that bother him based on previous  comments. So the deflection he is now trying is pathetic.

Horses' bones generally grow until they are six years old — however, the bones that affect height commonly mature at an earlier age, four-years-old. The only way to confirm a horse has finished growing is by x-rays.

Radiographic studies on the acquisition of bone mineral in horses from one day of age to 27 years have shown that maximum bone mineral content (BMC) is not achieved until the horse is six years old.
21 Nov 2019
Principles of Bone Development in Horses - Kentucky Equine Research

How Old Is the Average Horse When It Stops Growing? - Pets on Mom.com
animals.mom.com › old-average-horse-st...
The plates belonging to bones that are involved in how tall a horse gets -- such as hocks, tibias and femurs -- have usually fused by around 4 years of age.


Why didnt he name the rare bone disease ?