I hate the term Irish banker but will this horse become that horse

An excellent shout.Patrick has long been shouting the virtues of this horse . Back in his point to point days he was beat by envoi allen, apparently has a problem with anything new in its environment. Had to be settled in the bumper last march and might have hit the front too early. Learner and improver.5\1 TWAR is a bit tight imvho,toss up between supreme 16s or ballymore 7s. Great shout.

I can only see Envoi Allen as a banker as he is so far clear of any known opposition but I always factor in the negatives for a short priced ante post bet.
1. Non runner for whatever reason.
2. Falls or brought down. A significant risk for any novice chase but there might be a small field if EA turns up in peak form.
3. An unconsidered but unexposed rival excels itself on the day.

if we are betting nrnb for the Marsh then EA should be 4/6.

Which is the best GB trained probable in the Ballymore? I have just had £2 on Bravemansgame as all of the other shorter prices are trained in Ireland. 15 is probably a bit skinny if they do come over but will look quite good if they don't.

Would prefer the Bartlett Sageform as have the 66s .

sunday sees appreciate it and ballyadam plus a load of highly promising could be anythings line up in the pp future champions novice hurdle grade 1 over 2m at leopards .

Sickening I’m just going to shut my eyes and hope he goes the istabraq route from today’s race...

I’ll definitely disagree with that statement budd on this occasion

the supreme is always far more competitive with 7 or 8 horses with good chances every year, hence why firms like William hill offer 7 places on the race on the day

He’d be a penalty kick in the weaker ballymore which even on paper at the moment looks a weak affair

Then we will have to agree to disagree mate.

Ballymore looks the stronger race to me.

I have AI for the xmas/supreme double, so fingers well and truly crossed.

Its not biased Harry.
I have been far more impressed with Bravemans game, Cape Gentleman,Star Gate and Bob Olinger to name 4, than i have with Dusart, Ballyadam etc.

Thats why i chose the Supreme for the double rather than the Ballymore.

I thought if he beat Ballyadam(current fav),as i epected him to, added to my opinion on both nov races, then Supreme made more sense.

Bravemansgame? Nice horse but no more, cape gentleman no doubt end up in a handicap off of 136...star gate nice horse but yet to prove much and Bob olinger nothing outstanding at this stage and did less than he did on his debut, so I don’t need telling what race appreciate it should be running in in regards competitiveness

What annoys me budd is your comment in regards the races in regards supreme and ballymore when you have followed the festival for years and know how competitive a supreme ends up every year but you don’t because you have struck a bet on the other race and it suits on this occasion because of you’re double

ask asterion forlonges connections last year who were fooled into thinking they had a speed horse, their are always 7/8 improving types every year in a supreme but you don’t talk like that, you talk through you’re pocket like everyone did on here last year with envoi Allen, talking nonsense in regards him staying..
Invariably the ballymore isn’t a test of stamina and is a lesser race competitive wise, with slower horses but suits types like envoi Allen because of the tempo of the race and is also not such a cavalry charge with luck in running not needed like a supreme...ask yourself why istabraq who won the race today yet went to the ballymore? Why because it is an easier race every year and preserves a good horse

I have no doubt types like Bob olinger, appreciate it and other likely types can win a supreme but it doesn’t always mean they have to go and put the gun to a horses head in a far more competitive race and it is every year, in fact I can’t remember an easy supreme

04Arsenal - desperate times for you boys , I have to watch every game as the mrs is an ardent fan, best you’ve played all season yesterday and the first time they moved the ball through the lines all season...fingers crossed the boot cleaner arteta carries on with the kids, the mrs is so miserable when they get beat although she won a few quid yesterday, bets them every time

In regards what I thought of today in regards appreciate it...well the favourite did no running and he got all the best of it where he was positioned on the track...on paper for me it was a poor race bar ballyadam who I didn’t actually rate that highly myself...

The thing I noticed more was he was pushed along before the last flight that was omitted, so it was more staying that won him the race rather than a flashy on the bridal type speed horse, of course staying horses do win supremes and he will have a very good chance the betting tells you that but I don’t actually think he is actually a real monster just a nice type...the time was just ok today considering he missed the last flight, so I personally wouldn’t be in a rush to get on for the supreme but I never bet the supreme at this stage anyway, as their will be good horses who we haven’t seen yet or we haven’t seen their full potential and invariably the race is a very tough betting heat and in all honesty the only thing a punter gets at this stage with the supreme is a price edge and no more because he will be looking at 7/10 horses come the day that can step forward...all the best if you wager him at this stage...I do have a bit on him for supreme but from a form point of view I know which race he’d be running in, like I say though the supreme is a lottery

In regards shewearsitwell I know Walsh is part of this partnership but he did mention on that show she had a slight injury but she would be ok...what that means pal I wouldn’t know, he said she’d be back for Cheltenham but if you can get you’re money that’s what I’d do...she looks a lovely prospect although I don’t know enough about her yet I like to watch them for a bit before forming a proper impression

Well i aint going to write an essay explaining how wrong you are judging me Harry.
Its up to you.
Just to say, you have me totally wrong.

Wish you luck.

To be honest Harry, my thought start of season was Albert Bartlett, so have no worries about anyone saying hes a stayer.
I recall thinking the same about Champagne Fever years ago, and look what happened then.

I dunno mate, to me he could win all 3 novice hurdle races.
Yes, i hope Supreme, and surely they are tempted after today, but equally he could go Ballymore.
I only done the bet mainly cos i thought if he beats the current fav well then all of a sudden the Supreme comes into it, and that was the most generous of the odds available for the double.

Anyway, Weve been here before mate, with these novices and trying to work out which race, and no doubt will be here again.

Not great price, 14/1, but IF he does go suremexat least I will have the fav at a good price mate

Fair play the nonsense now with how the bookmakers approach the festival i just find putrid...at least offer 5/1 to make it interesting not the sp return on the day, after all he’s no world beater the clock tells us that

gonna watch the race back a good few times and make my mind up wether to play ,was running on strongly so a step up wouldnt hurt prob is bob olinger same owners .

Harry. It is obvious from reading your posts that you are angry and frustrated but accusations of the worst kind of pocket talk happen far too easily on this forum. Other forums have moderators and perhaps this one would benefit from them too. On what we currently know who are the supreme horses (behind Appreciate It) you would place above the horses Budd mentioned in the Ballymore  market, as while you have focussed on your view of the relative historical merits of both races at least Budd has named some actual horses for you to shoot down.

Relevance?.... I’ll back the Irish banker when you name it

I wouldn't fancy him for the Supreme myself because I think he has questions to answer regarding his hurdling, he is not a good, quick efficient hurdler, a number of times in his first two runs he has either jumped too big or, when getting lower has made mistakes, in a Supreme at a quicker pace with horses in and around him there must be a worry that he'd lose his position and get shuffled back and although he could outstay them if he survived that, on balance and at the likely price I'd be place laying him on the day in a Supreme.

The Ballymore is the safer option with regards it's more pedestrian pace and less chance of bad luck in running which won't put his jumping under so much pressure, although as some Ballymores end up being an actual test of speed late on you'd have to hope that there had been a decent enough pace allied with the extra distance to make it more of a test of stamina so he wouldn't get caught out by something with a bit more toe.

He looks a stayer, I haven't seen changes of gear, he traveled well in the Bumper and had 3 or 4 lengths on the winner turning in but just ran on at the same pace whilst the winner picked up well to run past him.

It looked like a staying performance the other day too, he was wound up to go on and go clear, the others all fell into a hole with Ballyadam who's previous win had already been ripped to pieces by the time guys being particularly disappointing, time will tell how good the race was.

The best race for him would be the Ballymore but I don't think he's in the Samcro, Envoi Allen, (he's a good thing let's find the path where least accidents could occur) category.

Personally I hope the February prep goes well and he runs in the Supreme (because this is Mullins and not Elliott who, if you'd backed him for the Ballymore you'd want him trained by) he then goes into the first race on the first day as a real shortie with the Irish money all piled onto the Mullins good thing and becomes a decent lay bet at the likely cramped odds.

As I thought sophie, do you ever put one up ?