Champion Hurdle Challenge Trophy 2020

I shall never forget the cr4pp that was written on here last year concerning alboum photo in the gold cup. Totally dismissed and not mentioned ......typical !

Irishone if you look back at the percy thread I think you will find it wasn’t totally dismissed by everyone there were plenty of hints it was my fancy.

Don't know about anyone else,but personally I don't always mention horses I fancy or back.
I think that's the first time Darver Star has been mentioned,but anyone who looks at form knows he's there.

Hindsight is a great thing,but you cannot blame anyone for not thinking ABP would win the Gold Cup during the build up.
Their were signs nearer the day and particularly on the day though that he was fancied to run a big race

Irishone

It wasn’t on the percy thread can’t remember which one it was on.

Logically that’s correct bud,but sometimes you get a feeling and there was something about the way he raced at punchestown in the race where Russel outfoxed Townend that made me think he was very good.

Fair enough Foxy,you did well.
I just jumped on on the day so you got a nice juicy price,although 16/1 winner is satisfying, even if I had backed others antepost!!

To be honest bud I don’t think I got any bigger than 16 it was after tramore I backed him not after punchestown.

Irishone, in no way have I overlooked Darver Star.  My last post was a response to comments about horses already mentioned above.  If you think the horse has been overlooked, you are making a contribution to the discussion by mentioning it, but it seems a bit odd to go down the "typical of this forum to have overlooked it" line.  None of them were mentioned until someone mentioned them.

The Darver Star formlines behind Envoi and Honeysuckle may well make him the best Irish trained candidate should those two not run. I certainly don't see why he should be a bigger price than Supersundae at present.

FWIW I think this is the one Championship race where the Irish contingent is significantly weaker than the British (although I think Paisley Park will take a hell of a lot of beating, I think the Irish challenge to him has more depth than the British).

The cheltenham gold cup 2019 is the thread

Read it and see all the usual protagonists, he wont stay, his jumping isnt sound all the usual cr4p from the empty vessels.  Meat loaf and lewisham ranger were the only two to come out of it with any kudos.

Yes its a forum, just like a newspaper it seems, and the vast majority making the most noise on here, clearly have no clue.

but didnt5 you put up the fav ? ie percy

Irishone it was the Ryanair thread however I made a proper tw.t of myself in suggesting a certain lady jockey wouldn’t be good enough at the very top level.

Don't worry about it Foyles.....apparently we are not allowed opinions during the build up, if those opinions are proved wrong.

So anyone like to tell me what this forum is all about?

I saw it mentioned last year Irish was it upu that posted it?

you

Read it and see all the usual protagonists, he wont stay, his jumping isnt sound all the usual cr4p from the empty vessels.

Charming!!!

You know what they says about opinions budd

Opinions are great if they come from a trusted , knowledgeable source.

You go back on here and look at some of those opinions after the event.

It is clear many are guessing in the main. Dont get me wrong, everyone is entitled to am opinion, free forum free country etc etc etc

But it doesnt give cart blanche to he or she to shout loudest , day after day  and freely distribute their bile on people who could make the forum a much better place and give up posting their valuable opinions.

Well most of my opinions are based on form, and my interpretation of form, and my feeling about possible improvement....especially with novices.
Yes at times I am guessing,particularly if the form is not there and potential may be.

Its a tricky game if you aint in the know, but a big part of Cheltenham for me is the build up and discussing/debating on here.

Not much I can do about it if some on here don't like that,short of not doing it anymore and that aint happening.

Fair enough budd
Glad you understand
If someone came on here from say ....hendersons stable
Knew his stuff inside out
Would he be recognised as an astute opinion?
I doubt it very much

bud has it right, and regardless if its informed info or just opinion its great to hear others opinion as it
does help to build a bigger picture of a race. Someone might point out something you had not looked into.

just do yourselves a favour and get on EPATANTE, with it's master jockey Barry "Hands loike shhilllk" Geraghty

id ratrher burn my money :-)

Irish this will always happen in any environment like this whatever the subject when you have professionals and non professionals trading opinions anonymously . There are many forums around relating to my profession. I would not entertain participating just to tell the non professionals they are idiots because they don’t work in my industry. If there were matters of fact that I could use my experience to correct people on I would, if they were matters of opinion I would accept that and acknowledge that sometimes those closest to a subject are the least likely to demonstrate objectivity and often quite set in their ways and occasionally a bit quick to dismiss views unless they know it has come from the right profile of person. Very often it is the naive or the novice that teach the wise and the wisest people of all are the ones that recognise that there are very few people they cannot learn something from.

It definitely builds a bigger picture of a race
.....but the picture is flawed if certain parts of it are the wrong colour or totally out of focus.

The assumption that people on here look into things is interesting.

Vast majority defend their opinions to the hilt because of something they read someone said, saw it on t v, or its in the formbook, ratings (ha ha) or google or wickapaedia. Research extends beyond the remote and the keyboard unfortunately.

Personally think we should all respect that we are allowed opinions,and should be allowed to voice opinions without getting belittled by those that, for whatever reason,think they are superior in their knowledge of the game.

Of course their are posts I have read, and no doubt written, that were at the time or later on, a load of tosh!!
But we are all capable of deciding whether to take notice or not.
And this is an exchange forum, where we are taking money off each other, so trust can be a tad dubious.
I don't think personally I have ever posted to mislead anyone, and hope I never do.

Epatante
Who'd of thought 2 runs after getting well
beaten at the Festival last year,she'd be
the Champion jolly?

Interesting view miltons but very much social services to me
Most on here are looking for kudos above their peers
Most on here pick their selection then look for things they can say to back up their choice
They then  cling to their logic in defence (if required)
We have a limited idea of their intellectual level or their knowledge or understanding of the sport
Yet this passtime satisfies their daily needs

Wish I had thought about her after the Mares nov Hurdle last year.....lord knows what price she was!!
I suspect I weren't the only one that did not, but fair play to anyone with big prices that must have been available then, and earlier in the season.
Not backed her and now cannot at the price.
But its an open race and I have hope to profit on the race.

With 43000 posts irishone you certainly seem to enjoy this pastime

Blimey, I thought I was bad enough

well its up to each individual what to post and what opinion to take notice of so why dont we get back to the champion hurdle?

Yes foxy , thats due to a bags gang back in the day .

....and the difference was
Those guys
All professional gamblers
Knew what they were on about.

Forgive my ignorance irishone but what is a bags gang ?

irish we get your point, bluntly any other horses you like or are you just on Darver?

About 12 years ago there was a daily bags thread on the greyhound forum, many would bet all day, the daily banter on the forum was brilliant and relieved the boredom.

No callisto just darver

Is there anyone on herethat you would follow foxy ?

So you are a dogs man and are still confused as to whether I am a man or woman or were you just interested in Irish dogs (only joking)

Irishone I enjoy talking about horse racing and for many many years have got by in this game and that’s long before the exchanges came along,on this forum the Cheltenham forum there are a lot of very enthusiastic racing lovers who give there honest opinions I enjoy that ,of course there are some who are to dogmatic and my experience in this game can only end in tears. I remember around 15 years ago on these forums a few who thought they had the game by the bo.lox ,I met some of them at the racecourse nice lads but didn’t stand the test of time which only a very few do,backing horses is a roller coaster there are times you think you are invincible then times you cannot get a thing right and that will always be the case no matter who you are.there are some on here who have never denied it’s a hobby to them which is great and I would hopefully always show them respect.

Well said

If I can answer.....their is no one on here that I would follow and equally their is no one on here that I would not follow,if that makes sense.
I just read posts and think about whether to take note or not.

^^
You are wasting your time! The poster will always be known as the "knowledgeable" who back Presenting Percy in the Gold Cup despite lacking potential and form (not sentiment) and an outrageous prep prior.

Irish just posted on the greyhound forum. Don’t worry I won’t be a regular. But I googled my namesake and a very old thread came up that I have just responded to. Took me right down memory lane

Irishone the two horses you suggested today both 25/1 yes I can stand for that both I think are overpriced and both can run well you made your case out for them ,time will tell what happens to them and I am sure you will agree they are both more likely not to win than win but long term that type of thinking will end in profit ,what I do find totally pointless is the shollter character just saying get on epatante it will win,it may well do but he is a million with that approach.

I took note of that Foxy/Irish, had a look at the Cheltenham race again,and decided 20 nrnb was worth taking for PTKO.

Well you’ll have a sighter after the first

So why not an ab, ea, ds treble

So why not an ab, ea, ds treble

That’s great bud irishone suggested it this morning and I merely pointed out on a line through moon over Germany he is very closely matched with notebook.

Now of course it isn’t as simple as that but one is 3/1 the other 25/1 one is a superb jumper one has won at Cheltenham.

She did jump a bit right handed,but if they have sorted that out as Irish says, then I think thats value.

If your still around irishone have a look on the champion chase thread

Benie Des Dieux has usurped Epatante at the head of the Champion Hurdle betting after Nicky Henderson revealed the Christmas Hurdle winner has been coughing this week.

The JP McManus-owned Epatante drifted to 9-2 (from 3) with Paddy Power after Henderson raised the concerns on Twitter on Thursday afternoon, although he remains "more than hopeful" that Epatante’s preparation for Cheltenham will not be affected.

Benie Des Dieux, who is also a hot favourite for the Close Brothers Hurdle, is a general 5-2 market leader for the Champion Hurdle, for which she would need supplementing. Unibet are offering a standout 6-1.

Henderson said: “In order to keep everybody in the picture I regret to say Epatante has been coughing a few times over the last couple of days for no obvious reason that we can detect.

“Her blood tests are perfectly normal and she is feeling very well and fresh in herself. Obviously JP, I, and all the team could do without this scare but this does not prevent her continuing her routine work.

“We will monitor the situation over the weekend and will regularly update everybody with any news. Both my vets and I are more than hopeful this will not interfere with her Champion Hurdle preparation.

“She’s now on medication which will not affect her racing or training. We will blood test and scope her again on Monday when I will be in a better position to clarify the situation, which obviously we all hope will be positive news.

“I would like to make it very clear that, touch wood, she is the only horse who has coughed at Seven Barrows at any stage this week.”

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Cough spreads quicker than corona

Stable lads filling their boots at the biggest price it's been in months before the agreed "all clear" announcement. We have seen this script almost annually down Seven Barrows way !!!

"I tweeted yesterday about Epatante because it’s important to get the information out there so we can’t be accused of trying to hide anything but I’m pleased to report that she seems absolutely fine this morning and has not coughed once. Her trachea wash was clear and her blood was fine which is obviously very good news and according to her figures she shouldn’t cough again. I must admit I think the reaction has been a little bit over the top and I’m surprised the bookmakers have pushed her out in the betting but I suppose that is what is going to happen when announcements like this are made but we had to keep everyone informed as we all know what can happen otherwise."

All cisterns go now the lads are on.

“Her blood tests are perfectly normal and she is feeling very well and fresh in herself. Obviously JP, I, and all the team could do without this scare but this does not prevent her continuing her routine work.

“We will monitor the situation over the weekend and will regularly update everybody with any news. Both my vets and I are more than hopeful this will not interfere with her Champion Hurdle preparation.

“She’s now on medication which will not affect her racing or training. We will blood test and scope her again on Monday when I will be in a better position to clarify the situation, which obviously we all hope will be positive news.

Seems some on here are suggesting that's all made up!!.
After reading that, I don't think I would be laying her,or indeed altering prices.

It's all going to be moot now anyway IMO.

What do you mean Duffy?

Reckon it will be off

Really??!!!

What cos of Corona??

So basically then, you think all sporting events will be called off from next week?

people need to get a grip!!20 confirmed cases and we should shut down the country-what about the Tube??
everyone needs to chill out....

I don't think that anything should be postponed but I am seeing how things are going, the media is ramping it up at every turn and I can see the government caving in, hysteria is taking over, that's how it is.

Should sporting events be cancelled, absolutely not.

Will sporting events be cancelled, strong possibility, the betting tells you that.

Not a chance of Cheltenham being called off if there is no restriction on movement throughout the UK. The airports are still open for business as usual ffs. The City of London alone has about 700,000 workers squashed into a square mile every day who converge in packed tubes,trains and buses. Hundreds of thousands visit the West End every single day.Does anybody seriously believe cancelling an event in the middle of the Cotswald countryside with a mere 60,000 per day gathering will make a blind bit of difference to the spread of a virus if life caries on as normal everywhere else.

In fact the gov should advise City workers to take the week off and travel to Cheltenham for the week for their own safety. The argument for calling off the festival because of the corona virus would make about as much sense as calling it off to prevent the spread of Aids...."It wont solve the problem but sure it can't make it any worse either can it?"

Well said first time visor

yep, very well said sir.

Yep,but the powers that be will be **** themselves.

The city, the tube, the airports will all fcuk the economy if they are restricted and money talks.

Cancelling the festival wouldn't, so its a token gesture the govt can make to appease the masses.

We all know that cancelling the festival alone would make no difference but what people don't get is that this is politics and the govt is under pressure and is going to want to pick on something to make it look like it cares, so it will look for an easy target, which the festival is because anyone outside of the racing bubble fooking despises it.

Duffy, you appear to have gained quite an appetite for the abandonment of the festival - I hope you didn't have the full bank on this happening.

Now if the gov decides to cancel all sporting events, concerts etc then the game is up.But you are miles wide of the mark in saying they will pick out the festival as a token gesture to appease the masses.That's a million to one to happen anyway but do you think the Jockey Club would just roll over and accept blatent discrimination like that if it did happen? There is all sorts of legislation in place to protect them from unwarranted government interference.The Queen,bless her cotton socks, might not be too happy with that attitude towards her favourite sport either, and she technically has the power to fire the entire government if she sees fit!

There is quite a difference between the current situation and what we had in 2001 with Foot and Mouth. All racing was cancelled for weeks and the Irish horses were not going to travel to Cheltenham even before the meeting was cancelled, which was due to an outbreak of the disease nearby.Horses do not contact the disease but they do carry and spread it.

Trying to justify cancelling the festival this time round while every other sector of society carries on as normal is just baffling.

I haven't developed an appetite for it, just to be clear I wouldn't cancel it if people were dropping dead in the streets when it really would be warranted let alone now.

I don't really think that the festival will be picked on alone but I do think there is now a real and growing possibility that all sporting events, concerts etc will be cancelled.

Anyone who just dismisses it out of hand is just burying their head in the sand, the pressure is growing on the govt and the jockey club or whoever will do as they are told.

As long as the government don't start pandering to the morons, I think Cheltenham will be alright, as will the footy.

Pressure isn't really that heavy on the government, or they'd have had a meeting last week.

The Donald's British twin will go out and waffle a bit Monday, and onward we will go. With a few throwaway lines about the NHS is ready, and British Bulldog spirit etc.

It does sound like you want it off Duffy, even though you dont.
Repeated comments appearing on here.
Really, only need to say your opinion once mate.

We all know it should go ahead,but yes,we all know the panic button might get pressed
It will be what it will be.

Personally think we are better off using our time discussing the races.

i'd imagine there are plenty making comments just to get there money back from a poor ante post book. i for one hope they reschedule the national hunt chase

Of course I don't want it off budd, I'd sooner Liverpool win the league and the festival be on than vice versa and as a United fan I can't really explain it better than that.

All I was trying to point out is what we all know should happen is different to what might well happen.

99% of my betting is I/R from home and has been from day 1, I've got a few little multiples and the only horses I've got on their own are Relegate and BDD for the CH and that's it.

I want comment further on the subject.

We can't determine what happens mate,let's just hope the powers that be make any decision based on common sense.

No danger of that happening

Let's hope Boris and the rest of the cabinet have a few tasty Ante Post vouchers in tow.

I fear you may be right Irishone.

I am starting to get worried now!!

Just having another look at Cornerstone Lad.

I can't see why he should be longer than the two he finished behind at Haydock - giving the winner 6lb and getting beat 3/4 L.  Ballyandy is half the price.

Feel free to say this just means Pentland Hills can't win, but he does seem to have run as well again as when einning the Fighting Fifth, and if it does come up desperate, I would sooner be pn Cornerstone to be this years Silver Streak than I would SS to get placed again.

So much depends on what runs where, bit if most of the better novices don't run in this, I could see him reaching the frame.

19 decs for 6 day stage, cilaos emery added, benie des dieux not, envoi allen taken out.
still looks wide open.

Honeysuckle left in?

I think she'll run here too (to avoid) Benie Des Dieux - a better chance of a victory.

wont look good if she does after saying they are going for the mares hurdle

don't know why they've done that.
Not as though they are waiting for
an odds on jolly to pull out.
Wide open race.

Benie would have been fav here had she been supplemented with or without Honeysuckle'. The former had been withdrawn for this, but the latter is still in. Hoping for a major deluge perhaps? If no deluge doing battle against Benie? Not in my calculation. I think Benie will have her measure in the Mares than this 2m.

honeysuckle left in.

Willie taking mcmahons cilias emery to the show, now that is interesting , he is a serious punter and will be on this at big prices, he wouldnt have put him in this race unless he is a serious challenger, each way bet no harm , he will be a runner .

I can see CE leading when going to the last before tipping up!!! Remind you of anyone?
I’m coming around to the idea of backing the fav. Bad preparation with the flu jab messing about with her prep in the mares novice hurdle last season.
I still like supasundae and Cour sublime as alternatives. Really don’t like Pentland Hills.

1. Epatante 11-4 FAV
2. Pentland Hills 11-2
3. Supasunde 9-1

Diet: 2l, 1l
Totes 3.60, 1.40, 1.70, 1.90 exacta 11.60, csf 15.20
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=o9d7ADgPl5E

Just been in my time machine... shock result!
1. Cornerstone Lad 25/1
2. Epatante 3/1
3. Silver Streak 25/1

Dist - 1l, 3l

I think only two horses who'd do it on unproven and proven potential ie Epatante and Sharjah respectively; the former won as easily as she liked and has a 7lb sex allowance; the latter is a very decent animal on his best form.

So a rfc between the two perhaps (for fun).

I am pretty happy with my position.  I still make Epatante the winner, am also on Pentland Hills, and have some bits win and place on Cornerstone Lad at big prices.  Sharjah looks the form danger but I am not convinced he wants it too soft.  Have to respect Silver Streak.  Darver's a nagging worry.  Perhaps I have got him wrong.  Can't have Cilaos Emery.  It looks such a below par renewal a win for Supersundae or even ISlver Streak would not totally amaze me.  But I hope and believe that, as the Racing Post greyhounds man would say, Epatante will

Good luck to all and thanks for the discussion over the last weeks.

Did I get edited for plaigerism???

Try again ... Epatante will "simply prove too pacy or these rivals"...

Well done Imp.Good call.

Epitante......going to be hard to stop her winning again by the looks of it.
Could be the same forecast!!

Personally i think Goshen is the key as to whether she wins again, and maybe Saldier, if they can get him fit on the day.
Cocertista at bigger prices interests me, if she were allowed to run here rather than the mares.

Big day today!!

Can't think for the life of me how Abacadabras is 20/1, he scoped dirty after the disappointing run last time so it's fair just to put a line through it. His Supreme run with Shishkin and how he moved through the race are all huge positives, Shishkin would be fav for a CH now wouldn't he and very few if any will travel through the race better than Abacadabras. His win before the last race was achieved with the race not being run to suit although most of the attention went to Saint Roi.

He is an awkward horse and has to be delivered right but even with that he is now a decent E/W price so with his high cruising speed that will take him long into the race you could even afford for him to allow a couple to box on better to the line.

With the likely end to end gallop, there will be more already going backwards out of the race before he is even asked his question.

The price seems so big to me I'm wondering if there is a bigger problem with the horse , failing that I'm happy to listen to anyone who can explain to me why he should be as big as he is.

Abar is 9/1 for the Irish Champion Hurdle as well, he was out swimming in the sea on the 12th Jan.