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Cheltenham Festival

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eric_morris
08 Mar 18 22:34
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Date Joined: 27 Jun 10
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Is he a gonner?

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Replies: 126
By:
charwell.
When: 08 Mar 18 22:35
Suspended market on £3.65 so I am guessing yes sadly.

Thought he was a v good thing!
By:
eric_morris
When: 08 Mar 18 22:43
They have removed him from the market on here now
By:
charwell.
When: 08 Mar 18 22:48
Yep. Gone.

If the owners have withdrawn him when he has a very opposable favourite and ground in his favour then it's a bit cowardly if you ask me. May never get a better chance and anything can happen in racing.

Really want to take UDS on but the opposition looks limited.
By:
Fashion Fever
When: 08 Mar 18 22:57
don't agree with cowardly, a brave decision imo to close to ascot why leave a mark here

the king George and gold next year is what its all about
By:
ACStafford
When: 08 Mar 18 22:58
Is this confirmed? I can't understand it personally. With the amount of prize money on offer at the festival, you can't really go around avoiding it nowadays, especially when it looks like the ground could be going in their favour.
By:
charwell.
When: 08 Mar 18 22:59
Next year ground in GC may be too quick. Horse may be injured. Sometimes you don't get a 2nd chance. Was trading @ 3/1.

Not my horse but I would imagine 99% of owners would let him run and not wrap him in cotton wool.
By:
eric_morris
When: 08 Mar 18 23:02
Suppose Cheltenham isnt the be all and end all for some. He had a hard race fairly close to the Festival. Next time maybe they will get a prep run in earlier to give recovery time.
By:
charwell.
When: 08 Mar 18 23:17
He has had plenty of recovery time. Plenty more horses have had a much more physical campaign. I am saddened as this is meant to be the pinnacle of the sport and it reeks of a Frenchman waving his white hanky.
By:
eric_morris
When: 08 Mar 18 23:22
Two and a half weeks ago isnt a long time for a chaser. Cue Card is a 12 yo and has to go for it. Waiting Patiently is only 7.
By:
Steamship
When: 08 Mar 18 23:34
The Ascot run has taken more out of him and he has lost condition. He just might be a horse who wont take much racing.
By:
firstimevisor
When: 08 Mar 18 23:49
Maybe he doesn't take his races well, and I accept that all horses are different. But Cue Card won the Ryanair at 7. Before that he had won the bumper at 4, was fourth in the Supreme at 5, and was second to Sprinter Sacre in the Arkle at 6. He hasn't had much luck there since but he's a great advertisement for running horses when they are fit and well.
By:
duffy
When: 09 Mar 18 06:15
King George is what it's all aboutLaughLaughLaugh yeh perhaps they think the races come a bit too close together.

They haven't gotten the hang of this wrapping the horses up in cotton wool lark have they. You're supposed to miss the prep races and run in the big one, not the other way roundCrazyLaugh
By:
Cash Is King
When: 09 Mar 18 07:44
6 day decs for the Thursday card out later today.  Presume decision communicated unofficially yesterday and some greedy insider decided to make a few quid.

Seems strange that betting suspended, horse taken out of Betfair and most bookies' lists even though no official announcement of Waiting Patiently's withdrawal has yet been made by connections.
By:
buddeliea
When: 09 Mar 18 08:01
I am sure they are doing what they think is right for the horse,and they do know him a lot better than us.
If they feel its right not to go to Cheltenham,then we should just accept it imo.
Sometime decisions have to be made,and they will stand or fall by this one.
Horse may develop problems and hindsight may say should have done this or that,then again he may have a great season next,and they will feel they did the right thing.
Only time will tell which way that goes.
By:
Cash Is King
When: 09 Mar 18 08:21
Lots of punter irritation stems from two things:

1) They hold antepost betting vouchers from positions taken a while back that are "in the money" all the while the horse is still likely to run. Lots of carping about kid glove treatment, wrapping horses up in cotton wool and flight vs fight but no matter how big the antepost position taken, most punters accept that it is the owner's prerogative to decide where and when there own horse should race.

2) Exchange price movements as insiders make a quick buck and betray the fact that a decision not to participate has been made but has yet to be formally communicated. This insider trading on the back of unpublished price sensitive information is illegal in stock markets but seems to be accepted behaviour and rarely investigated in respect of betting markets.
By:
Cash Is King
When: 09 Mar 18 08:24
Brian Hughes apparently stated on Wednesday night (at Cartmel's Festival Preview) that Waiting Patiently wouldn't run.
By:
festivalfanatic
When: 09 Mar 18 08:29
I saw that CIK although it wouldn't be Brian's decision. The line from connections has been very consistent and if Malcolm was still alive, the message might have been a bit more blunt. Maybe Aintree was always the plan but as Budd pointed out, horse welfare comes first and rightly so.
By:
equine flew
When: 09 Mar 18 08:56
Cash is King, yes I can understand those 2 annoyances, but for me, I want to see the best horses taking each other on to create great races and spectacles.  Surely that is what our sport is all about. 

I do not want connections continually looking for outs, seeking near walk over opportunities, if it is safe to run, the horse should run.
By:
impossible123
When: 09 Mar 18 08:59
Scratched from the Ryanair - he'd lost condition, and the Aintree Bowl could be his next target. What price I wonder?
By:
Autocue
When: 09 Mar 18 09:02
Absolutely the right decision as far as I'm concerned. He won well at Ascot but it looked to me like he had a hard race and was very keen to pull up after the line. He'll have learnt from the experience.
By:
asparagus
When: 09 Mar 18 09:09
An odd decision to me as he'll never have a better chance to win a grade 1 at Cheltenham. The Ryan Air is a massively below par race this year and if the ground was good to soft or worse he'd have probably gone off 5/2-3/1. Obviously, we don't know the extent to the loss of condition, but the way in which they have been negative about Cheltenham both before and immediately after Ascot suggests that the decision was made a long time ago. Cheltenham isn't everything but he had a lot more chance of winning the Ryan Air this year than he would have in a gold cup next year.
By:
impossible123
When: 09 Mar 18 09:20
^^I tend to agree. I think there were 3 horses that ought not to have run in races and then got sidelined soon after eg Thistlecrack (Long Distance), Death Duty (Racing Post Novice) and yesterday Sizing John (Lexus).

Waiting Patiently could have been next,...Aintree it is and I'm a backer, all being well.
By:
buddeliea
When: 09 Mar 18 09:34
Asparagus

I don't think the Gold Cup is on the agenda.
The King George is though.
To be honest I would not be at all surprised if we never see WP at a Cheltenham festival.
By:
Cash Is King
When: 09 Mar 18 09:43
It's a great pity because the Ryanair is beginning to look a bit thin.

I'm sure connections realise that the conditions appear to be in their favour this year but one can't blame them for swerving Cheltenham if the horse isn't 100%.
By:
impossible123
When: 09 Mar 18 09:49
I think connections of WP have the King George at Kempton as his main target this year. And post a satisfactory or winning run WP would more likely to be targeting the 2019 Gold Cup at Cheltenham - there is only one Gold Cup!
By:
Autocue
When: 09 Mar 18 10:58
They're genuine people and I don't think a Cheltenham decision was already made though they were honest about swinging that way. Ruth said: "We're taking him out of the Ryanair today. He came back from Ascot fine, but then when we started riding him again the weight dropped off. We'd love to have a Cheltenham Festival winner, obviously, so it is disappointing in some ways, but we can't take the horse if he's not 100 per cent. If I took him to Cheltenham looking light and he ran badly, I'd look pretty stupid. I've backed him off and he's already starting to look a bit better."
None of this comes as a surprise to me after the Ascot race and I wouldn't be backing Cue Card for the Ryanair either. Hopefully we'll see Waiting Patiently test the water at Cheltenham next year. As for those who said connections are cowards, they're either talking out of their pocket or else the wrong hole.
By:
asparagus
When: 09 Mar 18 11:13
Buddeliea, yes i don't see him as a gold cup horse myself but was the suggestion earlier in the thread that there aim is king george and then gold cup. i agree with you too that he'll probably never run at a festival. And whilst cheltenham isn't everything, i do think it's worth trying him at the track once before you decide it doesn't suit 9which seems to have been on their minds all along). Maybe he has run up light but i still feel this decision was made a while ago and with the ground possibly coming up soft they've been looking for another reason.
By:
sageform
When: 09 Mar 18 11:19
I laid off most of my WP ante post bet as soon as they expressed doubt after the Ascot run and it is no surprise that they are waiting for Aintree provided the horse is better by then.
By:
Desmond Orchard
When: 09 Mar 18 11:24
Trainer gives pretty detailed explanation of why the horse is missing the race and punters think it’s either an excuse, a straight up lie, or that they are looking for reasons not to run him. And you wonder why they seem reluctant to communicate?
Obviously the drift and profit taking is disappointing, but it sounds like he was running up light last week and how many people work in the stable or speak to people who work in the stable - unfortunately it’s always going to happen and I’m surprised it wasn’t more pronounced.
By:
buddeliea
When: 09 Mar 18 12:10
Well they may well try him at Cheltenham early next season...I certainly would.
I just get the impression they don't fancy the course for him, may be wrong of course.
By:
ReaseHeath
When: 09 Mar 18 12:37
They had him entered in the December Gold Cup at Cheltenham but he was n't 100% in the lead up to that race so they waited for Kempton in January.

Fairly small stable, lost a really nice young horse in Black Ivory on the same day Waiting Patiently won at Ascot and also they might not want to run him and Cloudy Dream in the same race ideally. I can understand their caution and she has been consistent in her communication since Ascot.

Looking forward, they might have a problem in terms of the race programme for Cheltenham experience because he is now rated 170 and all the races over the intermediate trip are handicaps - they could run him in the Shloer at the Open Meeting over 2 miles under a penalty but would want some cut in the ground presumably.The other option would be the Cotswold Chase but, given his apparent fragility, it seems a big ask to sandwich that between the King George and the Gold Cup if they're the targets.I can't see them contemplating running him in next year's Gold Cup with zero course experience. 

Anyway, getting ahead of myself - what I'm really saying is I would n't be surprised if we're having a similar debate about Waiting Patiently this time next year...
By:
maelduin
When: 09 Mar 18 15:24
I just get the impression they don't fancy the course for him

I agree. Think the only time we see him at Cheltenham will be if he runs in the GC.

He's lightly raced and they are clearly playing it softly softly with him. Interesting that he hasn't been tested over further then 2m5f yet. Personally i think they have doubts about his stamina. He doesn't look like a stayer to me. Can't wait to see him in the Bowl as long as there is a bit of cut in the ground.
By:
wondersobright
When: 09 Mar 18 15:35
if that's the case then he should be in the gold cup this year as he would be a single price for it on this ground

likely to be back to normal good ground next year
By:
impossible123
When: 09 Mar 18 15:43
I do not think they would want to do a Thistlecrack or a Coneygree eg one season, the horse a goner.

Aintree is the sensible way to go this year. Post the King George the Blue Riband at Cheltenham next port of call.
By:
wondersobright
When: 09 Mar 18 16:44

Mar 9, 2018 -- 9:43AM, impossible123 wrote:


I do not think they would want to do a Thistlecrack or a Coneygree eg one season, the horse a goner.Aintree is the sensible way to go this year. Post the King George the Blue Riband at Cheltenham next port of call.


quite possibly

and in no way am I dismissing this view or their campaigning of the horse

I just think this chat might sound v foolish if next winter/spring the horse picks up an injury or they struggle to get the ground they want for the races they should be aiming at next ssn given the ability of the horse

racing has a funny way of biting people on the backside for folding a good hand waiting for a better 1

By:
wondersobright
When: 09 Mar 18 16:46
been plenty of soft ground horses over the last 20 years that never got the ground they needed at cheltenham
By:
impossible123
When: 09 Mar 18 16:55
Look at Our Duke. He was ready for the Gold Cup last season, according to most eg he dismissed a competitive field in the Irish National, I believe, but Harrington deliberately not ran him at the Festival; compare than to Sizing John who was going for any race in his way, and look what's happened to him this season - he is missing the Gold Cup.
By:
wondersobright
When: 09 Mar 18 17:06
bird in the hand...
By:
Desmond Orchard
When: 09 Mar 18 17:21
Our Duke was a novice last season and nobody thought he was ready for the Gold Cup - he won the Irish National a month after the festival, off 153.
I’m sure connections of Sizing John or indeed Coneygree, really regret running their horses in the Gold Cup Crazy
Besides, they’ve clearly stated that the horse isn’t right, so I’m not sure what people’s problem is?
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