CCM,

Yorkhill's last run is not one to judge him on, in every race he runs he always takes a strong hold, on this day he was flat and Townend had to niggle him to get to the first fence!!!, he was clearly not himself, when he's right he has bags of toe, if he was right he would tank through a 2 mile race IMO.

Having said that though, i do actually think that Annie Power with her allowance would have won every Champion Hurdle going back probably as far as Istabraq.

Duffy. I know you aren't on your own with that viewpoint and I know his style of racing suggests so, but strictly on the formbook, what piece of form suggests he has any chance against a 2m specialist in a Championship race like BD?

Agree with dessie re yorkhill - there's obviously a problem with the horse and it wouldn't matter whether its 2m or 3m, hurdles or fences, I can't see him turning up next month.

Race times tell us nothing other than the pace a race was run at, no more than that.Nichols Canyon's third place finish would have won him most Champion Hurdles if you judged it on times.

I would argue that the best 2 British trained 2m hurdlers of the last 20 years, at least since Rooster Booster, are MTOY and The New One. In their prime they were miles ahead of the rest and for five seasons now they have been in the top 3.In their prime they were in an exceptional era of elite 2 milers. Buveur D'air has to stay at the top for a few more seasons to be considered a great but he's not there yet.

If MTOY's settled better a few years back that he does now he would undoubtedly be a CH winner, a horse you will not find in recent years that did not fulfill his huge potential down to ruining his chances time after time, such a shame Hendo and his team couldn't nail that, no fault there though, it was an impossible job.

Des,

BD's run in the Supreme was in my book the best piece of form he's produced, an excellent performance in a very hot Supreme, I certainly wouldn't, and have not called it "only" 3rd, however all 3 probably aren't world beaters, and any of the other 2, should they have carried on hurdling would have expectedly probably defeated the same opponents as BD has.

Imagine if Altior was given a hurdling campaign the season after, it's fair to expect that he would have destroyed BD in much the same way he did in the Supreme and people wouldn't be saying that BD is the best hurdler for the past 10 years!!!! Altior very much might have been though!

Altior was sent chasing as it is viewed that he could achieve anything, but BD, very much the bridesmaid was, also sent chasing which was ultimately aborted and he has simply filled a void in the hurdling division quality wise, which being 3rd in a very good Supreme allows him to do as there is a void in the open hurdling division.

Annie Power and particularly Faugheen travelled at such a strong pace and then quickened off of it, BD has shown us that when in a race that produces those conditions he is caught out, Altior left him for dead with BD staying on in third, this was BD running in the best quality race he has yet to encounter and showed the horse he is, a good horse but vulnerable to something that can proper quicken up at the end or keep up a searching gallop throughout, in short, a real top class 2 mile hurdler.

In BD'S CH he did not quicken up at the end, he outstayed the field, he ran past PM a short runner!! over 2 at Cheltenham, certainly over hurdles.

budd

I for one aren't really interested in race times on judging how good a horse is, how a race is run can be tailored to achieve all sorts of good/bad times, that's why from time to time you hear such things as horse A is track record holder over a given distance....horse who? that donkey!!!

As for what piece of form I can point to of Yorkhill's over 2 miles to show why he could win a CH, or CC for that matter, there is absolutely none, but as I say, I pretty much judge all my punting ideas on feel and impression and some performances stick in my mind.

Although Yorkhill's Neptune can be picked apart with regards Yanworth, I believe sometimes you can just isolate a single horses performance and just see something special, the race was over further than 2 miles, true, but he absolutely pulled Walsh's arms out the whole way and still really quickened up like a top class animal off the home bend, that showed me a star to be honest, that over 2 miles on that day would have suited him even better.

It's no surprise that after the race Walsh was producing comments in much the same way that he did with regards to Faugheen and Vautour before. I accept that Yorkhill is a tricky horse to figure out and something is not right, but before it's too late I hope they get him to the race course over 2 miles again when he's right so he can show his true capability.

Should Faugheen and Yorkhill head to the Champion Hurdle (CH) it is no foregone conclusion Walsh will choose Faugheen over Yorkhill given that Faugheen is lacking sparkle at present, and aging with issues; if he chooses Yorkhill (Melon is not in contention even if running) the market will respond positively hoping that Ruby might be able to work the oracle with Yorkhill.

I think connections of Yorkhill have made a catalogue of errors regards the running plans of Yorkhill this season. Firstly, starting off in 3m chase 1st time out, then to 2m very soon after despite the horse breaking a bone in his previous race; nothing to lose if he pops over hurdles again if heading to the Festival. Here's hoping.

Not sure it really matters which one Walsh chooses.
He will know hes likely to be placing at best.

Chief

Yes, good point regarding the feel and perception that I apportion to Yorkhill, the real issue for me is that I don't get that from BD at all, I don't say too myself "wow, that's impressive, this horse looks to me that he'd beat proper grade 1 horses" when I watch his runs.

I disagree with budd on the turn of foot, I maintain he has not got a real turn of foot, watch from the turn in in the CH, he wears down PM and is going away, but from a beaten horse, he outstayed his rivals. The appearance of a horse going away at the end of the race does not automatically suggest speed or that he's quickened up, the horses behind could be fading and he just keeps going, the best example of this in recent CH's is HF, he absolutely outstayed his rivals who had cut their throats earlier on and he stayed on past finished horses, there was precisely zero acceleration or turn of foot involved

Look at AP, Faugheen and Yorkhill in his Neptune, turning for home when all three clearly  "accelerate" away from their rivals and again the fact that Faugheen only beat Arctic Fire by a diminishing margin, matters not, Faugheen had gone steady, turning in those up with him had the same shot but he stepped on the gas and the race was over, that moment BD would be left behind IMO, it's the rare ability to put that period of acceleration in at a telling moment in the race which instantly wins the race, that's the special bit.

In that list of british horses I'd put both Binocular and MTOY'S clearly ahead of BD, although Tent didn't win a CH, I think the natural ability he possessed in his pomp put him ahead of several horses that did win CH's. TNO too in his pomp, which like Tent was 3/4 years ago, the argument of could TNO win a CH that we all had back then and one that I was firmly against, I think that if he was that horse now, I'd be in the yes he could camp, because what he lacked against that opposition, wouldn't be negated against the current crop. The rest of that list I agree are not great and BD probably would be entitled to be in the argument with them, although Peddlers Cross is one that it's unfortunate we never got to see the best of as he had that special look about him.

Those 4 aside it's not a very impressive role of honour at all really is it, so yes BD would certainly be entitled to be placed nearer the top than bottom but It's not saying much really.

Top class horses don't always impress during the early stages of a race. Even Altior didn't seem to be going quite as well as Politologue at halfway on Saturday, nor did Native River but like Buveur (who looked in trouble 2 out to my eye recently), they don't pull and only accelerate away when asked by their rider which is a wonderful asset. In contrast, Sprinter Sacre always looked impressive the whole way round in a race so there are plenty of examples of both ways of running. I prefer the non pullers as they often trade at longer than SP in running.

Re the Supreme angle for judging horses, I know it's the only time BD and Altior have met, so fair enough, but because it's a novice race early in their career with some horses having vastly different amounts of experience in general, I think it's a hard race to judge best horse.

Again, not saying BD is better than Altior but if they did meet again I don't think Altior would have it all his own way. From memory horses like Sprinter, MTOY, Binocular, Darlan and Jezki all lost in the Supreme but we're arguably the best horse in the race (although MTOY and Jezki were in the same race).

Just trying to say that once they are all at a similar level of age and experience, that may be a better time to judge rather than a really early career run.

This post relates to the Supreme generally, not specifically BD and Altior.

It's interesting that you bring up Binocular Duffy, as he too was beaten in a Supreme. Presumably he was lucky that Capt Cee Bee went chasing? Given the quality of horses he convincingly beat in his Supreme, Nichols was a fool not to keep Al ferof over hurdles, as surely he would've won a hatful?
The goal, when breeding NH horses, is to produce a top class chaser. The best one's go chasing, including some who have won a champion hurdle, like Dawn Run and Rock on Ruby.
I remember after Faugheen won the Neptune, WPM saying that they knew he was good, but weren't expecting that as he wasn't in Vautours league - they sent the better horse chasing. They did the same with Douvan the following year who WPM said could be his best ever (and so one assumes he thought was better than either of the previous years novice hurdle winners?).
I agree that Altior is most likely still a better horse than BD, even allowing that horses mature and improve at different rates. But that was got bugger all to do with whether BD is a decent winner of the CH just like Faugheen. I agree that if Altior had stayed over the smaller obstacles, he would be a world beater - but his name doesn't rhyme with 'machine' and so there would still be those claiming that he wouldn't be in Faugheen's league.

Ha Ha Ha!!! Fair play, Duffy.
No doubt this will be picked up again in 4 weeks time. But for now, bon chance mon braves!

BD is not on my shortlist, why? No value (on merit), and the race could be gatecrashed by either Yorkhill or Min or Samcro,...cat amongst the pigeons, I know.

Haha, not long for you to wrestle the crown back off me Duffy.

Beveur D'air will be my captain

Had a little dabble at the Skybet 11/4 price boost on Apple's Jade and Samcro

Let me have £25, maybe you've won too much off them in the past

Happy with the extra point Budd.  Smallest punting festival for me in 10 years, so happy with any little advantage.  It's one bet I probably would have done anyway.