Yorkhill

Camel

I think BD would go off slight odds against if both Faugheen and Yorkhill turn up. I think the "possible" prospect of one of those two running a proper race will work its way into the market.

Yorkhill is class personified. I'd expect a drift for BD if Yorkhill actually shows up, probably odds against for the former, I think.

There's zero chance Ruby would ride Yorkhill ahead of Faugheen, and Yorkhill's chance is seriously compromised by him not riding as he's the only one capable of getting the horse settled.

Yorkhill could do a Kalashnikov, if compos mentis; got several small doubles/trebles with Samcro/Footpad.

I've nothing against the horse, Duffy and was as wowwed as anyone by that Neptune run.
However, since then Yanworth has shown a propensity to get done for toe at that stage in his races and then stay on again, so with the benefit of hindsight I'm less wowwed, tbh.
Even if I wasn't, there's nothing happened in the last 12 months that suggests he would be competitive in any race at the festival (although I respect Festival form as being hugely important).
If you're right about odds against BD (not an earthly, unfortunately, it's more likely that Faugheen won't show if Yorkhill does) then my whole week would revolve around the race and I hate backing shorties, but that would be some gift.

The other downside to this saga as it has given Imp more fuel for his tiresome ramping.
He must be desperate to lay those speculative punts at monster odds off.........

I admit I'm letting my head rule my heart somewhat, but I'm a sucker for following horses off a cliff if I have at sometime in the past fallen in love with them, besides, he's only got that slow old boat to beat

oops, not a Freudian slip!!! heart ruling head that should be

I beg to differ,...I'm not letting my heart rule my head.

Yorkhill is class, and as such will give BD - 3rd in a good Supreme - a proper race, if compos mentis. He ought to have run in last year's CH; the remaining protagonists in this year's renewal are non-entities and only playing for places, including Faugheen, I believe.

BD odds against cos of the participation of a horse that has been desperate pretty much all season??

Quiet laughable stuff i am reading on here to be honest.

Yorkhill may possibly have been class,but nobody with any sense would describe him as that this season.

you're surely not taking his last run at face value are you? good lord, that day is getting smellier with each day that passes, he was beat before they reached the first fence.

You will now within the next week or two if Yorkie is flying at home,due to the money behind him. Imo I don't even think Faugheen will go.

Forget his last run, how about his Lexus effort when he virtually pulled up? Safe to assume he would have been primed to the minute for the that race, plus his form when running fresh is excellent, so no excuses. You can forgive one bad run but definitely not two in a row. Something is not right with the horse and i can't see how better ground and his love of Cheltenham is suddenly going to revive him.

Buveur D'air at odds against is a wheelbarrow job.

I don't think you can be too dogmatic in writing him off, we're not talking about a horse that has been proven to be fully exposed at his optimum trip and proven to be not good enough.

The horse has been messed around and not really been given the chance to show his best, I personally thought his first run this season was a good one that only went south when his stamina gave out, he was on a going day that day and took a good hold jumping and travelling well, if he raced over 2 miles at that time we'd have seen a better horse, his next run was a complete write off, even his detractors would have to admit as much.

The fact is that there is no book of form to either criticize or support him over 2 miles in a championship race, if you're against him you're trying to marry up what he's done at different trips and conditions to rule him out for a race that would see him in a better light.

If you're a supporter you're hoping that what they've done to him hasn't ruined him so he can't perform properly when fully given his best conditions and the promise he once showed in the not too distant past is still there.

He wont be odds against,just not possible im afraid.
But yes, a wheelbarrow job if he was.

At least the presence of Yorkhill adds something to the race,and no doubt keep this thread ticking along!!
He must be one of the most talked about horses ever,and that for a horse that has won a neptune and JLT and not much else.

I've been longing for him to run in the CH. His connections chickened out last season but put up a sterling performance to win the JLT. And now the CH (finally) after two disappointing and non-descript runs; 1st, over wrong trip and atrocious ground; 2nd, lifeless and probably too soon after the 1st.

If anywhere near his best hurdling form he's the beating of all the non-entities in the CH, and very possibly the fav BD too. He also loves Cheltenham; if he's reunited with Ruby an additional bonus for horse and backer, I believe.

Yes thats fair Duffy not to be too dogmatic,and you are right that he has not had the chance to show what he can do in a top 2m hurdle race.
Personally i would be amazed if he could get close to BD on what i have seen this season and the prep he has had,but the horse deserves to be given some respect,cos after his Neptune victory,it would have been no surprise to see him fancied for the following Churdle.

Imp
What is his

What is his best hurdling form?

budd, des, as an interest, let's assume for one minute that the Neptune style of performance will be replicated on the day, now the form itself might not be up to the job, but let's say he runs in that way with whatever improvement that allows him to show, how close do you see him to BD and let's say the market assumes he runs to that run, whatever that might be, what price does he go off at?

I think he's win because I thought that he produced a turn of foot that day that BD hasn't got and over 2 miles would have seen him in an even better light, he wasted a deal of energy pulling for 3/4 of the race.

Chickened out???
They wanted to make a Gold Cup chaser out of him.
You do spout some nonsense Imp.

No they didn't chicken out, every horse they have pretty much that has shown any sort of high class form and hints that it might stay has to have the GC route attempted, the stable need that win.

Beating Yanworth (fav for the CH against BD the following season and whose optimum distance is further than 2m 4f) in the Neptune showing a good turn of foot 2 out.

Yanworth and Yorkhill should have swapped races last season. But I believe I may have my wishes this time with both horses.

i think it will be a miracle if this horse won, in fact i would say he is a long shot to even start in the race, just normal media ramping, anyway good luck with this project

Vautour?

Chicken out might be too strong a description nevertheless, a bolder and more sporting decision ought to have the the CH with Faugheen out instead of the JLT.

I'd challenge any genuine Yorkhill supporter who did not disagree with Mullins' decision to run Yorkhill in the Lexus on atrocious condition 1st time out, and then back to 2m.

My money is down, and all I hope now is for him to show up and do the talking on the track - I ain't fear BD.

I personally thought his first run this season was a good one that only went south when his stamina gave out

This is where we differ Duffy. I always thought he'd have no problem staying an extra 3 furlongs based on breeding and previous form. To me he always seemed to finish off his races strong. To me he was never travelling really well in the Lexus so i can't write that run off due to stamina doubts. Something else is amiss. imo

I’m somewhere between you and Maelduin, Duffy.
I know he has some engine and thought he was a Gold Cup horse. I also thought, at the time, that his run in the Lexus was fine until he got tired. Which would be perfectly acceptable for his first time in open company and in a hot G1. The speed with which Mullins then dismissed him as a Gold Cup horse was surprising, following that, but who am I to question? However, the next run was a shocker, way below par and I couldn’t be backing any horse that has run like that so close to the festival. It throws the previous run into question also. There doesn’t seem to be an explanation (I don’t go along with this ‘messing them about’ nonsense, they’re f’kin horses, not prima-donna soccer players, they do as they’re told - “What’s that Willie, three miles on soft ground? You can Eff off, I’m not doing a tap!”) and that’s even more of a worry.
If we forget all this has happened and judge him purely on his Neptune run from two years ago, then he would be a worthy second fav at about 4/1 - I still don’t think that run gives him the beating of BD though. The daft thing is, if he lines up, he will be 4/1 or less and people will just ignore what has happened before.

BTW Imp, the ground was Yielding at Leop at Xmas, hardly ‘atrocious’. But that doesn’t fit your narrative.......

Problem with that Imp.is that Yanworth had the best 2m form going into that Churdle,so would have been stupid if he had not run in the race.

Yes, that is Yorkhills best hurdling form,pretty much his only form unless you want to use the beating of 00 seven!!

Still, maybe he would have more hurdling form had he been campaigned differently.

If we forget all this has happened and judge him purely on his Neptune run from two years ago, then he would be a worthy second fav at about 4/1 - I still don’t think that run gives him the beating of BD though.

Thats pretty much what i was gonna say Des.

Yanworth had the best hurdling form in that CH but not over 2m, in my opinion. On the other hand Yorkhill probably has given the ease he skipped 3l clear of Yanworth after the 2nd last hurdle in the Neptune. After two years of waiting my vindication could be proven one way or another come 13th Mar 2018.

This turn of foot you keep going on about Duffy.
Not that i agree with you,i think BD has shown us he has,but horses can win the Churdle without a real turn of foot,and by your admission BD already has!!
At this moment BD is the best 2m hurdler around(as far as we know).
Could Yorkhill be better?........of course he could,but we simply have nothing but a Novice Hurdle over 2 and a halfm 2 years ago compared to a 2m Champion Hurdle last year.

Yep he skipped 3l clear of Yanworth who has turned out to be a 3 miler by the looks of it.
Its not form that gives him the beating of the current Champion Hurdler.

Yeah, but Bud, just for a second use your imagination.
Imagine if Yorkhill had gone hurdling last year, now imagine BD had stayed over fences. Then imagine Yanworth had won the Grand National and Altair run a close second in the Ayr Gold Cup. What price now Yorkhill for the Champion Hurdle, eh, eh?

Yeah, but Bud, just for a second use your imagination.
Imagine if Yorkhill had gone hurdling last year, now imagine BD had stayed over fences. Then imagine Yanworth had won the Grand National and Altair run a close second in the Ayr Gold Cup. What price now Yorkhill for the Champion Hurdle, eh, eh?

*Altior ffs.
Altair would have no chance in the Ayr Gold Cup, everyone knows that.....

Yorkhill has a proper engine but he is ridiculously quirky so we don't get to see him at his best very often. His run in the Lexus was dire. I just cannot buy the argument that he ran well for 2 miles! He won a JLT ffs and wasn't running out of petrol. Whatever about the Lexus, his run this month was far worse again. That's 2 runs and 2 flops at 2 miles and 3 miles. We know he has mental issues and its perhaps possible that there's something physically bothering him too.

It wouldn't have mattered a damn if his 2 runs this season were over hurdles or fences, 2m or 3m, he just wasn't right for some reason.I don't doubt for a second that he could bounce right back and I'm certain he will do this some day,perhaps even at Cheltenham, but if so then it won't have been just because he has gone back to 2 mile hurdling!! It will be because he has simply come back to form.

Remember he has just as many quirks over hurdles. His last 2 hurdle runs were Aintree, where he ran way too free, Townend couldn't hold him, he jumped appallingly and scrambled home in front, and then Punchestown where he again jumped left and ran a dismal race finishing a well beaten fourth.The horse is just a talented nut job but he's capable of either winning or pulling up in either the Champion Hurdle or the Ryanair.

Hang on, did budd say he's won the Neptune and JLT and not much else!!!

Well yes budd, he's "just" the dual festival winner, perhaps he should have won one of those races that Des speaks of in his rather excitable post above!

I did indeed say that Duffy.
It was meant in the context of how much talking surrounds this horse, rather than meaning to knock the horse.

Anyway,i have 36 on here for the Churdle(well they all have their price)so hope he does run,plus whatever one thinks about him he does add some intrigue.

My main reasoning is his form this season and his prep for a Champion Hurdle,they just simply don't give him an earthly.
If we take that away from the equation however,as some seem to be doing,as is their right,then its all about potential,and that's a different thing.

Talented nut job as ftv puts it is imo a fair judgement,and those types can always run a big race now and then,maybe this will be Yorkhills time to do that.

you can see why gigginstown took there horses away
He has had the horse in training for over 3 years and he still 60 / 40 weather it runs in a 2 miles hurdle or a 2m 5f chase in two weeks at the most competitive NH racing meeting in the world

^
Agree with that, total mess.

He'd surely have a much better chance of winning the Ryanair. Un De Sceaux and Cue Card will set a furious pace so he should settle and his actual jumping of fences has never been a problem (not left handed anyway).

Mullins has only said it's 60-40 he goes for the CH, and frankly if Mullins said it was 99% certain I would still half expect a u-turn.

The big issue is Ruby - he'll surely not get off Faugheen or Un De Sceaux to ride Yorkhill which ever race they choose.

You know it's getting near to the Festival when you open the forum up & there's been 50 posts on the Yorkhill thread... I'm still clawing back losses from last year's NR in the CH after all the chat on here convinced me he was going to run (mainly you Duffy as one of his main supporters!). On at 25s on here & happy with that in case he has a 'going day'. If he does turn up it also should push out the MTOY without BD & TBP prices I'm hoping...

C’mon Duffy, old boy. This is the Yorkhill thread, excitability and hyperbole are to be encouraged.
Besides we all have cliff horses, I had a strange crush on Champion Court a few years back At least yours is a top class crush!
I did answer your question by the way, 4/1. But the fact that if he does run he will probably go off shorter than that, even taking into account his poor campaign, is ridiculous. I’ll be place laying him if I see evens to place.
Not that it really matters, but I did see him as a Gold Cup horse and if they were to scratch this season entirely and start again with him next year, I still think he’s capable.

C’mon Duffy, old boy. This is the Yorkhill thread, excitability and hyperbole are to be encouraged.
Besides we all have cliff horses, I had a strange crush on Champion Court a few years back At least yours is a top class crush!
I did answer your question by the way, 4/1. But the fact that if he does run he will probably go off shorter than that, even taking into account his poor campaign, is ridiculous. I’ll be place laying him if I see evens to place.
Not that it really matters, but I did see him as a Gold Cup horse and if they were to scratch this season entirely and start again with him next year, I still think he’s capable.

He's deffo more chance in a CH than a GC Des, he'll never stay, anyway, my point about this season is that to criticize him you're not comparing like for like. If he'd failed miserably in two 2 mile hurdles I'd be with you, but you're using a 3 mile and 2 mile chase defeats one where he was beat before the first fence (you just can't take any notice of that) to rule him out in a race that might see him in his best light!!.


I must say that Mullins comments post Leopardstown bemused me somewhat, he seemed happy to take from that race conclusive evidence that he couldn't travel at 2 miles pace over fences and didn't seem to acknowledge that he was beat immediately, he can't think that, but with the investigations and such, he probably just wants it forgotten and done with.

It's clear that Mullins doesn't rate BD top drawer, inferring that a sub standard Faugheen may well be good enough to win.


I've backed Yorkhill at 30+ for the CH too and would not consider backing him at the likely price he'd go off which would be in the region of 9/2 I believe.

My whole point with him is that I think his best trip is 2 miles and yes, over hurdles, BD may be as good as his supporters think he is and simply hasn't had the real chance to show how good due to a lack of opposition and I accept it's easy and probably unfair to take the "what's he beat" attitude.

I hope they all get there and all run their race.

Being beat before the off is the problem though Duffy. As others have mentioned, no doubt at some point he will return to form and put in the sort of stunning performance we all know his capable of - but he's not shown that for 12 months now and it's a leap of faith to expect it to be next time given how bad he was a few weeks back. We can't just ignore that when deciding to bet, can we? Or are you suggesting if he had run that weekend in the Faugheen/Supasundae race, that he would've been fine?
I hope he does show up though, as you're right, it will make it a better renewal and I'll clean up on place laying him

If Mullins thinks a sub standard Faugheen can beat BD,good luck to him.
Personally I would think BD would hack up against Supasundae over 2miles, and it appears Supasundaes connections probably agree as they did not even consider this "weak" champion hurdle for him.

I suppose it how you look at it, when a horse is beat pretty much immediately then I can put a line right through it, it would be much harder to do so if he'd run and was beat on merit.

Do I think that something was wrong physically as some have suggested that isn't being identified...absolutely not, to think that there is something that manifests itself immediately into a race but doesn't in the hours of galloping he does at home is madness and he ran perfectly well for a large part of the Lexus, how people can't see how well he jumped and travelled for a large part of that race is strange to me, his finishing position was down to Townend downing tools when his stamina gave out.

It is a leap of faith Des,of course it is, and that's where the price comes into it.
He cannot imo be backed now, because the current price does not reflect his form this season and the very strange and unorthodox campaign towards a Champion Hurdle....basically they have made it up as they have gone along.

I liked his Lexus run and was very surprised he was immediately dismissed as a Gold Cup horse. I thought he got tired FTO, which was compounded by him clipping the last in the back straight, rather than ran out of stamina. Townend was very easy on him after the last, which I didn't mind either, he's a class horse, no point souring him if he's not winning.
But then the next run was too bad to be true, you won't find too many winners of Championship races at the Festival to have come off the back of a run like that - it's not like they're trying to get him handicapped for a shot at the County Hurdle! You can put a line through it if you like, but I'd be looking elsewhere for the winner.
You watch, he won't even show up, like that other forum obsession Finians Oscar. There will be the thick end of 100 horses win or place at this years festival - these two probably won't but have had more comments than the rest put together, funny old world.

It's not been a CH campaign, Bud, because they don't think he's a CH horse. They just don't have another one they think they can win with and so are throwing this dart as they don't know what to do with the horse next.
Who knows, it may pan out for them?

I think they thought very much that they had a CH horse after his Neptune win, the thing was back then they also had Faugheen and Annie who had just obliterated her CH field too, so they decided to go chasing with him.

They are now hoping that still exists.

That Lexus run was very strange.
He lined up at the back of the field, and I was thinking similar to the JLT.Settle him at the back,get him jumping nicely and gradually get him into the race,and that for me was the perfect way to ride him.
2 maybe 3 fences into the race he was in front!!
Horse just wanted to get on with it and paid the price I guess.

RUK are replaying the 2017 festival, gets you in the mood doesn't it, they've just started so in about 20 minutes I'm going to re-watch BD outstay PM and co.

Exactly budd and that's him, he takes a tug and over the longer trip with a slower pace it was exaggerated....then next time, townend has to get after him to get to the first fence, that race stinks to high heaven and apart from the "investigation" into the betting, they find nothing else, as I've said before, hopefully he'll be fine now that's "out of his system"

They can still go chasing with him,its not as if he aint won a festival chase.
I really don't think its about the type of obstacle he has to jump, but whats in his head.
He can perform at a high level, we have seen it over hurdles AND fences.
Its just a matter of not knowing when he will do it, and that's bl00dy tricky when punting!!

That's the thing that causes all the chat though isn't it because really the rogues are the ones we all love and provide most conversation.

Tidal Bay

Yeh,fair comment.
They tend to split opinion and that's where the debate comes in.
I loved Tidal Bay and he had his moments,Faasel another.
That's where the price is factored in.....big enough you can take the risk of a going day.
When Yorkhill was 36 on here I decided it was worth the risk for a few quid.
Unfortunately imo the current price is not.

I think this is the 451st post on the thread. You would n't get a thread like that about Buveur D'Air would you? Stripping it down to basics Buveur D'Air has won 11 out of 12 races over obstacles only missing out in the Supreme that imp loves banging on about.

The biggest controversy about him was when they switched him back to hurdles after his Warwick win over fences - he just turns up, races, wins, goes home, trains, turns up again, races, wins - never appear to be any rumours about his soundness so I'd assume he's got a solid block of training behind him all season - trainer's biggest concern is that he needs a lot of work - sounds like a nice problem to have.

Buveur D'Air is still only 7yo so every chance he will be capable of putting up his best performance yet in the Champion Hurdle, Yorkhill would surely have to improve on his best hurdles form to date to beat Buveur D'Air on the back of a haphazard preparation - if you've got 25s or 36 or 30+ about that happening then well done, clearly worth persevering but I've no interest in backing him at the current prices especially given he's only 60/40 to run in the race (whatever that means).

Finally, imp stated that his last run might have come too soon after his run at Christmas (even though as Desmond pointed out the ground at Christmas was hardly atrocious and Yorkhill was n't given a hard time once it was clear he would n't be winning).There were 37 days between his Christmas run and his Dublin Racing Festival run. There will be 38 days between his last run and the Champion Hurdle so it will clearly be Mullins' fault for running him back too sooon if he does n't win.

Got him for £2 at 50 here but laid off at 22 and left with 3/1 and 4/1 (any race) plus 7/1 (nrnb without BD). If he wins I'd back him again for next year's CH, assuming he turns up. And Samcro incase Samcro bombs in the Ballymore/Neptune next month.

At the present moment I'm fairly contented with Yanworth and Yorkhill both going for the races I'd hoped for after the scratching of Death Duty very early from my antepost portfolio.

Nice one imp, getting next years CH planned for nice and early....his 4th festival success on the bounce

Yep, Yorkhill has an impressive record at Cheltenham. Similarly, Might Bite for a repeat in the King George at 5/1 or better (again) if he credits himself well in the Gold Cup; Footpad in the Tingle Creek and Champion Chase if Altior bombs; Samcro in the RSA. All to create some value.

All the bias and bullshit from I123 saying Yorkhill must run in the CH and it turns out he was so confident he has a whole £2 on it - of which he has laid nearly half off.

Unbelieveable.

How about Finians Oscar in the Mares Hurdle?
I gather she calls herself Fiona's Oscar and identifies as a Mare (be a brave man to argue in the current climate),  two and half miles definitely her trip - all to create some value, of course.
If nothing else, we can then spend all year whinging on here that connections are campaigning her badly and that they don't have a clue, when they inexplicably fail to target - or even mention - the race we have taken monster odds about.

All the bias and bullshit from I123 saying Yorkhill must run in the CH and it turns out he was so confident he has a whole £2 on it - of which he has laid nearly half off.Laugh

I missed that! Utterly brilliant!
Even if it wins, his hourly rate from his relentless posting on here would make a job at Maccy D's look like winning the lottery.
You couldn't make it up!

A bit cruel I think.

It's not the £2 that's funny Duff, we all have different pockets and mine are by no means the deepest.
It's the laying off that cracked me up

Looking like a soft ground start to the festival, that'll suit the favourite.

looks totally gone to me this beast, be amazed if showed

How many years have we heard soft ground for Start of the fes. It'll be the usual Good Food/soft in places

The market is saying Ryanair is the more likely target over the Champion Hurdle (CH) now which Mullins alluded a few weeks ago. Is Walsh getting his way (again) perhaps; Walsh has Faugheen in the CH.

So you think Walsh will ditch UDS for Yorkhill in the Ryanair do you.

Yorkhill is not top class. The Sun Alliance Hurdle it won was the worst in history.

From what I've read David Casey has expressed a preference for the Ryanair for Yorkhill at at least one of the preview evenings (not his decision but presumably his views are taken into account) and Ruby's RUK blog today states he does n't know where he will run yet.

Mullins only actually said he was leaning 60/40 towards the Champion Hurdle at his media day (or words to that effect) and there have been 8 or 9 days since then for those percentages to change.

Waste of energy trying to guess when they probably don't know themselves yet - different if you're trading positions obviously.

Still, I'm sure there will be those who blame Mullins for putting them away whichever race he runs in.

For the avoidance of doubt, I have n't backed him in anything and won't be doing so - you're not going to beat yourself up if you're not on and he wins are you? Not based on what we've seen since last year's festival.

Gatecrashing? A G1 2.5m winning chaser, who has been campaigned over fences the last two years, winning the novice version of this. Oh, and he’s entered....... hardly the surprise of the century.
If he were to win, on the other hand

I’ve finally cracked, was sure I posted this on the Ryanair thread in response to Imps ‘gatecrashing’ line about Yorkhill.
Well, I had a good run.

you ok Des?

Nope. This Yorkhill saga has finished me off, I reckon.
I’ve no bloody interest in backing the thing either!!!
Been going through the two Tuesday caps, which has part addled my brain, not knowing the ground ain’t making it any easier.......

Nope. This Yorkhill saga has finished me off, I reckon.
I’ve no bloody interest in backing the thing either!!!
Been going through the two Tuesday caps, which has part addled my brain, not knowing the ground ain’t making it any easier.......

See? Double posts now.
I’m going for a lie down.

Take a break mate,still plenty of time till Tuesday.

Came on here this morning thinking another 50 odd posts would have been added,but its all quiet!!

Rested up ok Des??

Thankfully Budd has learned how to spell quite☺

Picky git !!

Tickety-Boo now, Bud.
Not sure what happened last night.
Either Yorkhill, or after opening the JLT thread seeing Finians Oscar being put up

Yorkhill and Finians double mate?

You know what, I just might. It would soften the blow somewhat.
But which races......?????

Not anymore, the pendulum has swung towards the Champion Hurdle now. As it is the Closutton Stable his final destination would be a mystery right up to early next week, I'd imagine.

Camel

Champion Hurdle & JLT double Desmond

eric_morris
07 Mar 18 16:15

Camel


Someone's got the hump.

I think he has Top Notch last year & Yanworth the year before

Looking good for the CH. A queue to back him; ff Walsh's preferred mount will be much shorter than present 15 without a doubt.

This beast is running in the French Champion Hurdle today along with L'Ami Serge, Bapaume, Killultagh Vic and Tea For Two.