Cheltenham Festival
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Vautour OK?
Vautour OK?
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Replies: 385
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OnOffer
That was before the KG; the KG was an eye opener,...it showed how quickly Vautour was caught by Cue Card! |
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“A few strides after the line he was back on top again so it is hard to say he didn’t stay.” Was what Walsh said after the KG when he said he would have done things differently and we could potentially be having a very different discussion!
I think it's very premature to say a horse getting chinned on the line in a King George in his first race at 3m is very premature. Will he stay 3m,2f? No one knows whether either way because he hasn't gone that far. Spring at a left handed track and his favourite track will eek out quite a significant improvement, whether that's enough to beat all these good chasers remains to be seen but I think he goes there with a very real chance of winning it. |
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OnOffer
A £10 wager for charity, ok?: I say Vautour does not stay 3m 2f, and will be passed even after jumping the last if in front. |
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why wouldnt ruby just say that he is riding it if he runs,its not like he is going to upset the owner
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I think the Vautour backers who think left handed, spring ground and Cheltenham forget that Cue Card will also improve for all these things. Let's be fair Vautour has a great chance. He'll travel like a dream for 3m and have the rest of them at it. I think we all know they'll come back to him but after the last fence anything can happen.
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you could say the same about don poli,he has won at the same two festivals
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"A £10 wager for charity, ok?: I say Vautour does not stay 3m 2f, and will be passed even after jumping the last if in front."
So you're betting that he won't win? |
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great bet
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whatever happens, vautour will not line up in any race without ruby on board! 100% fact.
If ruby doesn't want to ride him, that will be because they are not happy with him and he wont run.... simple. if he does turn up in anything like last years form then he'll travel like the winner and will trade close to evens at some point. I've backed him but the vibes are awful, hoping his class gets him through! |
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What are the terms for Ruby ride with PP? Ante post rules??
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Ah I see it. Very, very interesting
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OnOffer
Yep, Vautour will not win the GC; I'm betting Vautour will be passed even if jumping the last in front. |
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stan246
Both must take part. |
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^ I am ALL over that bet. If they both line up and Ruby chooses Djakadam I would be absolutely gobsmacked.
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Stonking bet IMO. I'd make it 1.33
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See,this is what I fail to understand Tom. Others have said the same as you.
Why would you be gobsmacked if Walsh chose a proven Gold Cup horse over a doubtful stayer? |
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When Ruby got off Vautour last year he was full of praise and basically said he loved Vautour and was a future Gold Cup horse. I think this is what people are remembering and that's why they will be surprised if Ruby chose Djackadam. If Ruby hadn't said anything like that last year the debate will be why he could get off Djackadam? because of a fall last time out? Forgetting the past and what was said Ruby will chose whatever horse he feels is going into the race in best form. I guarantee when Ruby gets off Douvan he spouts out exactly the same praise as he did last year. Although I reckon he could be right this time.
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Yeh I can see that.but a lot can happen in a year. In that time Vautour has failed to prove he stays well enough.Yes,Djakadam fell last time,but he does know he stays.
I'm not saying Walsh would not choose Vautour(how would I know?)but I don't see why anyone should be shocked if that were the case. |
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dour stayer or supreme traveller with a good jumping rhythm, I know who i'd like to be on.....
the thrill Vautour gave him last year was clearly visible, Ruby wont have forgot that! if Ruby is on Djak, Vautour wont run! |
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I would not describe Djakadam a dour stayer but each to their own.
No doubt Vautour is a real good traveller,but watch last years Gold Cup and Djakadam travelled rather well. Which one has the best Gold Cup credentials,more likely to win,that is normally the pros reasoning for choosing. |
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Yeah not sure if the timing of the decisions allow it but if ruby wants to ride djak in the gold cup, then his chances of persuading ricci to put vautour in the ryanair are obviously a bit better. I think hed lose that argument but it would have a chance.
Could he chose djak over vautour? Dont see why not. Got the impression from ricci yesterday that douvan is the new favourite these days so maybe vautour isnt turning into the star they all thought he was. He was asked who he preferred out of djak and vautour and he did say he thought vautour was classier. That thing about vautour not showing his spark - my read on what ricci was saying yesterday was that last year vautour was amazing just before the JLT and he hasnt showed that yet. But said vautour was undercooked and overweight for the king george so should see a big improvement anyway, just maybe not the horse we saw in the JLT. Dont know if its the ground, the distance, optical illusion, my own bias or what but he visually just looks lighter in the JLT compared to the KG run, looks like a whippet on steroids and a show off at the fences. I agree with the comments about cue card or others coming alive at cheltenham in spring but if they can find all that extra potential in vautour then thats much more than the others will find imo. And if they dont then he'll still be a fitter horse than we saw in the KG. |
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See,this is what I fail to understand Tom. Others have said the same as you.
Why would you be gobsmacked if Walsh chose a proven Gold Cup horse over a doubtful stayer? Bud, I just think Vautour is in a different league to Djakadam in terms of class, and potential. I firmly believe that nobody knows whether he will stay or not (if the Ricci/Mullins/Walsh triumvirate knew for sure that he wouldn't he would definitely be running in the Ryanair). Personally, I think he probably will. Re that bet: I also believe that if Ruby tells connections he would choose Djakadam that they might not run both in the Gold Cup. I think the three of them all know that Vautour is the better horse, and no jockey would get over losing a Gold Cup by choosing against a horse that he feels is better than his chosen mount, especially when that horse has been brilliant in both runs at the Festival in the last two years. |
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Cheers Tom,although I still don't really get it....maybe I'm just thick!!
If they still don't know if Vautour stays or not (which they can't really)then why would anyone be shocked to see either decision from Walsh? One horse can be a lot better than another,but that don't mean he can beat that horse in his optimum conditions,if he's not in his. |
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Not at all bud - it's a glorious game of opinions after all!
For what it's worth I think that's about the best 5/6 shot I've seen this year! |
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^ agree Tom. PP boys obviously taken the Betfair quotes a little too literally
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Just read on twitter that the The Times racing journo tweeting Vatour is not right. Truth?
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Is that not just based on Ricci's comments re him saying he's not working overly brilliant?
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Lets not forget lads, Djakadam is as unproven on dry ground as Vautour is over the trip. If it comes up good Djakadam has a big question to answer and I wouldn't want to be wading in on him having only seen him run twice on good ground. Once he fell at the festival and the other he was thumped by Don Cossack at Punchestown. Every other run has been on soft or heavy.
If it's good I think it will be a near certainty Ruby will be on Vautour, if it's soft who knows what will happen. |
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Fair comment Timmy, but last year he had the JLT over 2 and a half, this year its the Gold Cup....big difference.
For me its even money what he decides to ride. Wish you luck though Tom,if you steam in. Satrus, Road to Riches got thumped too, makes me think that Gold Cup left a mark. Aint been taking much notice of that piece of form personally. |
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Fair enough. Not going to argue whether you think the form of that race is solid or not. I'd probably end up agreeing with you.
He hasn't shown us he doesnt go on good ground, however Djakadam still has to prove he can do it on that going, and it's a sizeable question mark. |
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Yeh, they all seem to have question marks, fascinating race for sure.
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PP pulled the Ruby ride market
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Vautour being nibbled at relatively short for Ryanair on here today, anything triggered this?
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Can't see anything in it as the owner has been very clear that it's gold cup or he stays at home! He would look foolish and would be ripped to shreds for saying something like that so close to the festival now and changing his mind!
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Goes for the Champion Chase. Barry Cash rides
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@betracingnation As expected Ruby Walsh rides Vautour in the Gold Cup.
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Says who?
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Think its some bloke on Twitter!!
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