Tombstone - Where now?

Why would you say he needs further? Was out on his legs at the end.

I'd say it wasn't a bad run and will make the Supreme a certainty now myself.

Aint got enough speed imo - off the bridle too early after still not really settling. Did he wear a hood today?

Couldn't agree with CCM more. Looked the winner to me with 2f left and clearly didn't get the trip. 2 miler all over for me

If you have backed Tombstone for Supreme that was a decent result,won't run in Neptune now.

Think this bad ground along with small fields are making some of these races and the form not that trust worthy. Think on faster ground and more true run races will help a few horses out

I still fancy him for the supreme, Deloitte is a good guide and i think he wants good ground.

Decent ground and decent paced 2M should suit him,is my feeling.

That is racing in Ireland,bad ground small fields,sedate pace.

He travels in snatches, a sign of weakness? Think he be top class over fences in a couple of years but don't think he'll be winning any novice hurdle at Cheltenham.

Improving horse and GE really rates him plus he's beat PM by a lot further today.

fast 2 miles would be ideal for Tombstone surely, didn't get home today.

total admiration for anyone that can decipher that lot today - you are a lot smarter than i - though i dont set the bar too high - that said i wouldnt be too down on tombstone - dont think he had anything in his favour today and still ran a thoroughly respectable race imo, i even went back in for supreme - its a game of opinions and mine is that for the most part horses left in their stables were the winners today where chelt is concerned. A few that disappointed today have imo drifted to prices that may look big come march if connections make the right noises nearer the time.

Ran a decent race and I reckon connections will send him to the Supreme after today. The emergence of Yanworth as a potential monster and the fact that he appeared to weaken at the end of today's race should put paid to the chances of him lining up in the Neptune. That said I would not be overly hopeful of his win chances in the Supreme but he deserves to take his chance. As others have stated though, the Irish novices form with horses running on heavy ground all winter could easily be turned on it's head. I think the Supreme is a wide open race and whilst Min is a worthy favourite he is by no means a good thing.

I like tombstone and have had a bit on for the supreme myself but looking now I would say it will place at best,does anyone think it doesn't put it all in.

I backed him ages ago for the Supreme but have managed to lay it all off. I then had a bit on him for the Neptune after O'Leary said he would 'definitely' go for the Supreme - but I'm pretty sure I have done my dough. Amazing how differently we all read races but I could not have him as a 2 miler in a million years. Doesn't settle well enough for me and didn't really look like outspeeding those Neptune horses today. Yeah sure, it was heavy going but they went no real pace and a Supreme horse should have gone away after the last over 2m 2f surely? Don't get me wrong, couldn't have him in the Neptune either but to be backing him for the 2 miler now seems like madness to me. As with so many Elliot horses, I think they just think they're better than they actually are. At the start of the season they reckoned this horse could be as good as Tycoon Prince - what d'ya know? They were right!

Delsie do you not think it struggles on the ground and therefore looks to be outpaced,I agree with you ie the elliot yard !

I do agree to an extent, cuf - but as horses like Min and Altior have shown, class 2 milers can show speed in any conditions. When you look back at the way Min left the Gigginstown horses for dead in a few strides after the home turn - Ruby gives him a squeeze and he's gone. It's all very well saying 'we're not afraid to take on Min' but it's another to actually have the ammo to give the thing a race. I think that the favourite and the Henderson horses are, quite frankly, miles ahead of Tombstone - and most of the others actually.

Your probably right and the more you look at mins form the more you have to fancy it to hose up,and you might get 5-2 on the day

Well I'm waiting till I see him in a fast paced race over 2m on decent ground.
That's what he needs imo.

Never rated Bellshill but do think Yorkhill is top class - just don't know which race he goes for. Have him at 25/1 for the Supreme but with Bellshill running such a shocker, I expect he will now be Mullins main Neptune horse.

I have also liked Tombstone for a while but he does seem hard to weigh up after his last 2 runs - as Delsie says he's probably just not quite top class whichever trip they try with him.

he either didn't stay or was possibly a bit and i may be wrong a bit ungenuine to my eye...

It is hard for some of the Irish runners who have to run in heavy ground all through the winter (not that we have glorious sunshine over here every week!).

A lot of them are forced to run on it, and some improve massively for good ground in March.  I think Tombstone will be one of them, but there is nothing to suggest Min will too.

I'd be very confident of him reversing the form with Bleu et Rouge if they meet in the Supreme, but he was a 50/1 shot for the Supreme this morning and I would have expected Tombstone to beat him today, so I was a bit dissapointed.

Tombstone is a very good horse but very over hyped, he's been beaten on the last two occasions and the list of excuses keeps getting longer. I'd be amazed if he can win a Supreme but that's just my opinion because as WC if there is better ground he could improve. I just don't think he travels well enough in his races always seems to hit a flat spot, maybe a sign of weakness. I do think he'll make a fantastic chaser but as it stands no horse seems to have as many excuses made for him.

Having now watched the race, definitely think he will show improvement in fast run 2M on better ground. But now question whether he's good enough to win a Supreme

Beginning to agree John.  At first I thought it was a decent run in that ground, but I still would have hoped a future Supreme winner would have the class to get passed - Tombstone was travelling the worst of the first three turning for home.

You have to say, based on what he has achieved on the track so far, he doesn't deserve his reputation as yet.

We could all be massively underestimating Blue et Rouge; he could have been below his best behind Long Dog and Blue et Rouge may well be a very good one, meaning Tombstone ran a blinder yesterday.  We won't know the value of the form yesterday until they line up before the roar!

Do people realise he is a 16/1 chance ? not a 2nd fav with a big reputation.

In terms of reputation, I can only go off what I read on here and what Gordon Elliot has said about him.

He's had quite a lot of column inches on here for a 16/1 poke, and Elliot is always bullish about him, saying he would beat Long Dog next time out.  I'm not sure that's true.

Considering the likes of Altior and Beuveur Dair are much shorter in the betting for the Supreme, they barely get a mention, so I'd say Tombstone does have an element of hype about him.

Totally agree WC, I've got nothing against Tombstone and honestly think he will making a fantastic chaser but this horse seems to have as much talk as any other novice on here.

As for 16s he is but more generally 10s and would have been a lot shorter if he had won yesterday.

New member and first post so wont try to be too controversial.

in regards to the hype this horse receives, that's exactly what is with gt horses they nominate a number at the beginning of the season then when some put in below par performances the listeners tend to make excuses.  Looked to me that it just lacks the quality to be a top grade 1 novice hurdler, might go on to be a good staying chaser in time but couldn't touch it for any of the novice hurdles at Cheltenham.

Agree with most of this, and am not a massive fan. I wouldn't be surprised to see him run a better race on decent ground over 2m, but would probably be surprised if he was good enough to win.

On a related note, I have been lucky enough to live in Dublin for the past three years and have been to just about every meeting at Leopardstown in that time period. I have never seen top-class horses finish as tired as they did yesterday and am pretty certain that the ground was much more testing than even the typical 'heavy' you see in Ireland. I wouldn't be in a hurry to form too firm a conclusion about any horse that seemingly disappointed yesterday.

I have never seen top-class horses finish as tired as they did yesterday and am pretty certain that the ground was much more testing than even the typical 'heavy' you see in Ireland.

Exactly, yet it was officially soft. A complete joke.

Doesn't look like he wants to go past horses unless on the bridle, Might be a touch of the Harchibald's about him.

Whether Tombstone has enough ability to win the Supreme or Neptune is highly questionable for me but I'm very confident he will favoured by a strong pace and the much better ground that he is likely to encounter at Cheltenham.

This horse is a lovely mover and to my eyes is crying out for better ground. Gutted that they chose to run yesterday, as he had a very hard race on desperate ground! Certain this is a really good horse!

Just a word of caution for potential Supreme backers, Robbie McNamara said that speaking to Bryan Cooper, he fancies riding Tombstone in The Neptune. Thinks he needs to take his time with him and that he could run into a place on better ground.

Betting on here and elsewhere seem to think Supreme,not sure he would be good enough to win either race anyway now,and ive backed him good while back.

Elliott says he more than likely goes Supreme now. This horse is a prime example of Elliott over hyping his own horses, doesn't look classy enough at the top level and seems to lack the necessary bottle to grind it out in a finish.

I would be careful judging novices on rubbish ground.

Interesting that Cooper should say that though. Obviously not exactly gagging to ride A Toi Phil in the Neptune and other than Tombstone he doesn't have an obvious alternative in the Supreme. But as you say, Elliot says the shorter trip is his choice. Not that any of this is really relevant as Giggy will decide in the end - and probably on the Monday before the festival.