Cheltenham Festival
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"Vautour will come on for the King George," Ricci added. "He was 20 kilos too heavy there. He's got 10-15 more to lose."
That must make him a good thing for the Gold Cup (if he stays), and Ruby says he passed Cue Card again after the post.
Cue Card is the most improved, and in form contender from this side of the sea.
I believe that Cue Card will be proved a very good benchmark.
I think we are going to see something very special.
Thoughts anyone.
That must make him a good thing for the Gold Cup (if he stays), and Ruby says he passed Cue Card again after the post.
Cue Card is the most improved, and in form contender from this side of the sea.
I believe that Cue Card will be proved a very good benchmark.
I think we are going to see something very special.
Thoughts anyone.
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12 weeks is along time for a horse to 'come on for a race' over.
Re Cue Card - Be a big ask for a 10 year old to win the toughest race in the jumps calendar too |
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I was astonished to hear yesterday pp where going 2/1 on vautour just to run in the gold cup! Time I got home he was 5/4 even that seems big as all the signs and what the owner and trainer says it's all go for the race!!! So I couldn't resist a little £40 if I wasn't so skint after the wife's birthday I would have had more on as I think he is 90% or more to go for it!
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P.P will take and make money thats why scoobys on their payroll. Vautour is an exceptional horse and possibly would beat the 2 milers over hurdles and fences but if they attempt to go a distance further than the KG the top owner of NH horses doesn't deserve to own any of them. It the one thing that breaks a horse. I know whats been said but common sense will prevail and theres ZIP chance of the majestic Vautour running in the GC.
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2/1 would be a very big price,5/4 is more realistic,looks like the only worry could be soft going or a very big performance from djakadam this weekend
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if the ground is good then he runs in GC.Surely common sense is to run him in the GC,he will be 5/2ish fav on the day.
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You'd have to wonder why PP have come up with a special market just to get some more money in the satchel against Vautour in the GC. Very brave man to take them on imo.
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Shame that 5/4 isn't NRNB
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Suppose could back it at Ev nr no bet to win Ryanair, hope not want best horses in Gold Cup.
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many over the years have ran well in KG and failed to stay in GC, any sign of soft in the going and/or unless something happens to Djakadam, then can't see vautour going for GC this year
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Vautour is way too special to run in the Ryanair,
If he isn't to run in the Gold Cup, run him in the Queen Mother. |
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Wont run in QM with UDS no chance imo.
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Less than no chance!
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providing the terrain is reasonable racing ground...with no Coneygree..Hell dictate a modest pace up front, then gradually winde it up and they wont see which way he goes...if the ground is heavy...he might not run...thats the dilemma..i would say he is about 1/5 to run in The GC
Remember Willie Mullins has never won GC...why on earth would you run your best steeplechaser in a different..how bonkers would that be? |
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can just see the gigginstown boys letting him have a nice stroll around for the first two miles
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Cuthbert
I wholly agree that Vautour is too good and special to be running in the Ryanair, all being well - it is the Cheltenham Gold Cup or the Champion Chase! th For Faugheen to be denied the chance to take on Hurricane Fly last year at Cheltenham by WPM, and I quote from Lydia Hislop's interview with RR: "Part of e tax, I suppose (is) for being in the stable you kind of take what you're given in the sense of building up to Cheltenham." It is time RR, like Gigginstown, stands up for owners and racegoers, and run Vautour either in the Gold Cup or the Champion Chase - horse racing needs competition! |
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PP smells to me, it stinks that 5/4 he runs in it!
Either they knows for sure he doesn't run in it or is taking a punt based on age and other stats of horses of his calibre. I think this Ryanair race is becoming a stepping stone to the CGC the year after. Arkle or JLT as a novice, Ryanair 2nd season chasing then CGC at age 8/9 seems the way to go these days. Nah making me want to take the antepost price for the Ryanair more than anything this has! GL all  |
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We'll know soon enough but Coneygree is the perfect illustration that if you strike while the iron is hot things may favour you. Vautour like any other horse is one step away from a career ending injury. If Ricci is right and I see no reason why he won't be then the sheer amount of information stacking up in his favour makes the Gold Cup the logical race to go for this year unless it comes up very soft.
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The price PP offering about Vautour running in the GC is just PR they won't lay decent bet on anything, so personally I think it's meaningless.
If the ground comes up decent I think they should run in the GC, he loves Cheltenham, seems best in the spring, obviously the trip is the doubt but you can't have everything. 100% the best horse in the race. The only Ryanair winner to win the Gold Cup is Imperial Commander but he didn't run at the festival as a novice. |
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The owner and trainer desperate to win the gold cup! Normally Ricci is only interested in winners but I think with this one it's different! Remember mullins said vautour is better than faugheen!! And Walsh says 10m after the line he was back in front of cue card and says he has no issues with him not staying the trip! They even say he could stay the 4m they think he is that good! Everyone is due the opinion but I think 5/4 is a steal as only extreme weather will stop him going for it as they haven't even talked of him going for any other race even though he is entered. But most of mullins have multiple entries.
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For everyone who didn't see WM post race interview after the KG he stated it appeared Vautour didn't stay, no matter how many times you watch the race he was travelling like a dream into the straight and got mugged by a horse that was going nowhere turning from home and that won't change. I'm amazed at the amount of people now using their heart not their head.
I did my dough in the KG hoping like everyone else this special animal would stay. He didn't thats life it happened to other wonderful animals like one man. It doesn't take away from his greatness, thats done by asking him to do something he can't do. Fair play to the connections of Frankel. |
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pretty much agree apart from being great,i suspect he is but i cant recall one top horse that he has actually beat
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baNjackst - Lots of us have used our heads and determined the KG was inconclusive in showing us whether he stayed or not. This has been discussed ad nauseam in other threads. I suggest you check them out for reference if you haven't already.
As far as him being the next One Man, sure isn't hindsight wonderful. Imagine if they never tried One Man in the GC we would all be left wondering. I can't imagine how you felt when they ran him again in the most prestigious NH race in the world. You make things sound so black and white when they clearly aren't, especially in Vautour's case. No two horses are identical. GL |
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I agree with the sentiment of the above post - that people are assessing Vautour's chances with their hearts and not their heads.
Staying is all relative really. If Cue Card wasn't in the race, then the conclusion would be Vautour stayed. The reality is he was outstayed by a horse who himself was a suspect stayer in the eyes of many before the start of the season. With that in mind, it's hard to see how Vautour can win when opposed by even stronger stayers - Don Cossack, Don Poli, Road To Riches and Djakadam over 2.5 furlongs further at Cheltenham. The chances must be very high given that at least one, if not more, will finish too strongly for him. |
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You're so right Gazo. So many horses are lauded to the sky yet you can look at their form and ask that question.
No question that Mullins has some brilliant performers but let's wait until they've beaten top class animals before proclaiming their greatness. Not one performance from UDS or Vautour over fences has yet involved beating a top class opponent. I have nothing against Vautour or Un Des Sceaux but if you ask the question "who is the best horse they have ever beaten?" the cupboard is, so far, bare in terms of formidable opponents. Partly as a result of Mullins' domination, partly his placing, and partly the opposition running scared, but they do seem to be able to glide through the Irish season with ease. Even Douvan has beaten very little although, again, he may well do so in time. The acid tests are to come (though Douvan and UDS don't seem to have a lot to beat at this stage). |
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I am of the complete opposite opinion. I think Vautour will stay and will be right there at the end of the Gold Cup. He will be fitter, lighter, going left handed, good/soft going and has been trained for the race. It's a game of opinions and my opinion is he will get the GC distance and be right there. Good luck to all.
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and does cue card really stay,he looks like he does this season but his two runs before the king george he beat dynaste who's stable has been pretty much out of form all season and doesnt stay 3 miles in his dreams and silviniaco conti which looked good at the time but not so now with dynaste again in 3rd,could be vautour was outstayed by a non stayer
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This... Vautour was in front 10m after the line....is total straw clutching by Ricci and Ruby.
To try and cling on to something like that is nonsense. Beaten fare & square on the day, and to try and prove he stays based on after the line is laughable. |
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Hold on a minute, saying Vautour beat the 156 rated valseur lido in itself doesn't make him great, but saying he beat the 156 rated valseur lido by 15 lengths head in chest tells a different story.
He's not yet great but that's just a time thing IMO, at the end of his career we'll see where he stands. I just hope he doesn't get too messed about by connections too much, trying to turn him into a GC horse this year and next year the juggling of UDS/Douvan and Vautour. |
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A horse doesn't need to be a top class horse for an individual watching to be able to spot something special, vautour produced it in the JLT and Douvan produced that wow moment last week.
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Theres a reason why connections want to run vautour in the Gold Cup cause he's the best horse in a stable full of superstars. Getting beaten a head in a KG makes him great with multipal graded horses either on the ground or tailed off behind. Vautour would win the Champion Chase with his head in his chest, he'd be winning last years and this years champion hurdle only he was a better and safer jumper than Faugheen. Now for anyone who watches and talks horse racing to suggest he's not Great I suggest you take up golf or some other past
time. |
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doesn't need to have beaten a top class horse I should have said.
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you can see a stunning performance in a seller doesnt mean its a great horse,you need to do it against the best to be classed as a great and as yet he has been in one top race and got beat
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In 35 years of watching horse racing I've yet to witness a stunning performance in a seller.
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Gazo, take my word for it, both Vautour and Douvan are great horses.
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take mullins word for it.
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probally but as yet he has took on two top horses and got beat by one and quite possibly would have got beat by the other,still a bit to prove before he can be claimed a great
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There might be a chance before Cheltenham to put the $64k question of whether Vautour will stay the CGC trip or not is if WPM/RR run him in the Irish Gold Cup against RTR and possibly DP; if Vautour runs I'm almost 100% certain Gigginstown will run DP as well even if WPM says not a good idea!
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Vautour is a very good horse up to 20f but I do not put Vautour in the same bracket as Wayward Lad, Boroughhill Lad or Forgive 'N' Forget.
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Why don't you wait until he shows what he can do first! He's been beaten a neck in a KG in his only run over 3m, and is being written off already. Crazy stuff to my eyes.
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