It's looking more and more like another first day mullins bonanza

divisive obviously

I accept your opinions but I just don't see his dominance as bad for the game,
There's alot of competition in the festival this year as much between willies own horses as out of it, think the ricci v wylie horses will be very interesting as they both have horses with great ability. In the champion he could have Imo a 123 but all different owners and excellent horses. Between the novices you have altior buveur dair yanworth yorkhill  tombstone shantou village bellshill min barters hill up for review Long dog moon racer.  Yes willie has a good few out of them but that's by the teams good judgement and work, and if they beat the horses around them wich I rate very highly, they deserve all the praise they get
I just want to see the best horses at the festival ever that's in willies yard or out of it it makes no difference to me.

I accept your opinions but I just don't see his dominance as bad for the game,
There's alot of competition in the festival this year as much between willies own horses as out of it, think the ricci v wylie horses will be very interesting as they both have horses with great ability. In the champion he could have Imo a 123 but all different owners and excellent horses. Between the novices you have altior buveur dair yanworth yorkhill  tombstone shantou village bellshill min barters hill up for review Long dog moon racer.  Yes willie has a good few out of them but that's by the teams good judgement and work, and if they beat the horses around them wich I rate very highly, they deserve all the praise they get
I just want to see the best horses at the festival ever that's in willies yard or out of it it makes no difference to me.

scooby it is not an opinion it is how i feel

and what i fear will be bad for the game is if people like me that have loved cheltenham for so long lose their enthusiasm - you telling me i should still be enthusiastic because you are doesnt really help ( i know you havent literally said this but the inference is there and that is why this is not a right or wrong debate it is about differences in how people feel which cant be debated -  i have nothing against wpm and understand his desire to dominate - but for the most part sports become less interesting the fewer people dominate - you are right at the moment there are a number of intiguing races- but to me unless the other trainers start to step up to the plate this will be less and less so in the future

Its a complete coincidence that ricci has 4 big favs on day 1. Before the start of the season Douvan was 4/1 arkle and min was 50/1 supreme.
Also Rest of the week he only has vautour  (was 4/1 ryanair) and Djakadam (was 14/1) that are in the top few in the betting and they could even line up together.

Its a complete coincidence that ricci has 4 big favs on day 1. Before the start of the season Douvan was 4/1 arkle and min was 50/1 supreme.
Also Rest of the week he only has vautour  (was 4/1 ryanair) and Djakadam (was 14/1) that are in the top few in the betting and they could even line up together.

your enthusiasm appears risk free and future proof - i am jealous because mine used to be the same and now a risk has emerged - fingers crossed and everything will pan out so that we will both be as enthusiastic in 10 years time as we are now

Scooby - extremely good post.

My first visit to Closutton was in 2006 when Willie had no winners at the Festival having drawn a blank also in 2005. Noel Meade had dominated the Irish trainers championship for six years. It has taken Willie two decades to become an overnight success.

Personally I am enjoying the moment and the good horses. He's in the Vincent O'Brien zone at the minute. But I know it won't last forever. Competition will see someone else rise up ranks. Possibly Gordon Elliot in Ireland. Part of the problem is that Paul Nicholls is having an inevitable lull in the post Kauto Star, Denman, Master Minded etc era.

The single biggest attraction of Cheltenham is the nature of the competition. It's fierce. Everyone's trying - unlike other times of the year. It can be an unforgiving place - for us all. Plenty of racing to be done yet. The ground, injuries, a bug in the yard, so much can go wrong.

It's possible Willie could surpass last year's total of 8 winners but I'd say he would settle for anything even close to that. Could he continue at that pace in 2017? I'd doubt it. Talk of decade plus dynasty that would spoil the nature of competition at the Festival isn't very realistic IMO. Best to enjoy the good horses whichever stable they hail from.

A question which hasn't been asked and which could be very relevant is how long will Ruby last?

Some absolutely ridiculous statements on this thread, so basically Ricci is dominating because he was the most money lol oh yeah because it's just as simple as that isn't it, someone should have a word with jp!!
How many duds have been purchased for astronomical fees over the years? It's not how much money you have it's the people you have, as scooby quite excellently pointed out.

Unfortunately we will always have begrudgers,
And another point Rich Ricci is great for the sport, incredibly enthusiastic and passionate about his horses and always comes across as honest and transparent and never get the feeling he's trying to put ye away in his interviews, a typical example was on Boxing Day when interviewed and he told the public how much condition Faugheen and Vautour had lost since their last run, I think everyone was taken aback when he revealed this,he didn't need to but he did. I for one wish him all the success in the world.

*has

Great post by Scooby

I'm in the camp that one trainer leading the pack is no bad thing, don't see how one camp being top of the tree is a bad thing... Doesn't this happen in all sport?

Surely it brings others forward, makes them up their game? Did it stop Richard Johnson doing everything possible to be champion jockey after 16 years chasing SIR A P McCoy?

West Indies then Australia at cricket Man Utd premier league Phil Taylor darts Davis and Hendry snooker (although they are pub games not sports) just being a few examples.

While we all love the festival to say this puts it at risk in 10 years is strange, It survived the watering down of the races by adding the extra day and 6 new races im sure it will survive a few years of Mr Mullins winning a lot of races. Every sport has 'top dogs' its how the pack chase and improve that keeps the sport going forward

Scoot,
Ricci would have had 4 last year had Vautour lined up in the Arkle,as many thought he should have.
What's the chances of next year being 3 on the trot?
At some point coincidence ceases and it becomes the norm.

I think some on here are missing what is being said.
As far as I can see nobody seems to be saying Mr Ricci or Mr Mullins are bad for racing.
More like they fear for the future of the sport and the festival in particular if one outfit dominates......whoever that may be.
At the moment the festival is fine,although I get it that some are getting a tad disillioned with the first day..........personally as I have said earlier I think it's still pretty competitive.
However,should the current situation continue and grow,that could well change,and than I totally understand that it becomes possible for people like Miltons,and I include myself as well,to feel worried about there feelings towards their favourite sporting spectacle of the year.
I feel it is possible that in x amount of years,I could lose my immense enthusiasm for the festival,and that is something I would never have thought would happen....now we are talking odds on shots!!

If Mr Ricci continues to stay with one trainer,and this trend continues and grows it will become the norm to have the best horses not race against each other as we get now. Last few years we have lost out on UDS v Vautour,Faugheen v Vautour,maybe Djakadam v Vautour to name 3.
Yes I get they want to win as many races as possible,that's their right,and who am I to say that's wrong.
But If other trainers and owners up their game,we might just get some of these type of horses in separate yards,and that would culminate in Cheltenham festivals to savour.Now I am sure we all would love that..

Anyway as said,this is not a pop at Mr Ricci and Mr Mullins,it's a plea to the other owners and trainers. Open your eyes and see what is happening,and do something to give us who fear for the festivals future some real optimism.

It's also not a pop at those on here that are happy with how it's going,that of course is up to them.

I am sure at the end of the day,we all want to see the best horses at the best festival,and currently we do so that's good.
Just be nice if more of them had different coloured shirts on their jockeys. Well for me it would anyway.

scoot ?? Sorry Scooby

I wholly agree with the above 2 posts: the last year withdrawal of Shaneshill from the Neptune to avoid Douvan (Shaneshill just did not have the pace of Douvan over 16f) was a big mistake as Shaneshill, in my opinion, was deprived of a Cheltenham win in that race judged on its excellent 2nd (just outstayed) to No More Heroes over 25f, and failure over 24f post this race - it was an absurd decision by Willie Mullins to withdraw.

Sorry, I meant 21f instead of 25f.

I don't mind the first day Willie Millins bonanza. Does it limit the amount I would bet in the supreme, champion or mares, yes, but I have them in accumulators anyway.  Whilst short priced favourites dominate day one, it is a long week and they do get beat.

peoples posts completely illustrate what i mean by divisive. there are people that are ok or even like the possibility of one teams domination trying to tell those that dont that they should like it too and why they should - for the thousandth time this is not a right or wrong argument - if this grows then i will start to lose enthusiasm for a sport that i have loved for years - this is a personal thing not something people can tell me i am wrong for feeling - Budd - thank you for actually reading my posts and understanding that my posts are not about wpm or rr or anything else that others feel the need to defend - it is about a recent trend that IF and only IF it continues to grow will affect my enthusiasm and from reading others posts, the enthusiasm of others as well. Anything that divides life long enthusiasts and causes some to be less enthusiastic is not great imo.

FWIW i think it unlikely that it will grow to the extent that i worry about, but because i have no control over whether it does or not and because of how passionate i currently feel about racing and the festival, then the worry is there for me.

one trainer and a few owners horses have dominated this forum. the runner up in the kg has been posted about a million times since, his vanquisher largely ignored - that is just one tiny example of how things are.

charlie,

I agree, betting wise, just like anyone now with doubles/trebles on Min (4/1), Faugheen (1/1), No More Heroes/More Of That (5/1), Don Cossack/Djakadam (5/1) and Vautour/UDS (2/1), the so call good 'things', but this is not in the spirit of racing where the best horses for the race must be running against one another instead of avoiding; if not, the Cheltenham Festival will be known (by racegoers) as the Willie Mullins Benevolent Festival!

Impossible, I get your point about avoidance and what is best for racing, and wholly agree re Shaneshill last year. Time will tell on what Willie decides to do.

"I am sure at the end of the day,we all want to see the best horses at the best festival,and currently we do so that's good."

Yes all i want are the best horses in the best races at the best Festival. Run Vautour in the GC and this years Festival would be almost perfect for me. But then again i don't really get caught up in how he campaigns his novices.

"You're forgetting Champagne Fever maelduin. Ricci has already won 3 in a row, he's going for 4."

As a massive MTOY fan i prefer not to remember that one. Makes it all the more phenomenal going for 4. Thanks for the correction.

Well last year you had Vautour in the JLT and this year he could be in the Ryanair.

Had he been with different connections,he could have been in the Arkle and Queen Mother.
Just a thought.

Douvan, the winner of the Supreme 2015, ought to be running in the Champion Hurdle (a natural progression) but instead it is now destined for the Arkle at odds of 4/7, a ridiculous price and a disservice and mockery to jump racing in my opinion.

Just out of interest,
What do we think about Graham Cunninghams comments on RUK the other day?
Saying the best 2 m hurdles are all in the same stable:
Faugheen
Vautour
Douvan
UDS
Nichols Canyon
Arctic Fire
Just think of a CH with all that lot in!!
Maybe other connections could have got hold of some of them and we may have seen them run against each other.
Think I would be in heaven!!!

The thing that I don't get, is why are all these horses you listed the best????
They can't all of been the best when they were bought, most of them weren't priced to be the best (arctic fire €110,000) bought by pierre boullard at the arqana sales (uds €54,000 euro)  vautour got beat by black river in france who went to paul nicholls for a hefty sum.
Douvan sourced by pierre boullard got beat by konigs day who went for big money to mccain.
Faugheen was a big money point to pointer sourced by harold kirk
Nicholls canyon was sourced from the flat by harold kirk

Who knows if these horses would have become what they have if they weren't in willies yard?? And we're bought by nicholls or whoever.
Going by the horses that beat them in france, and in point to points like mahler lad who beat bellshill comfortably and went for huge money but yet to win a race under rules. I'd have to say it's unlikely.
Very hard to say this would be the case

I'll run that race in my dreams tonight Budd. I'll let you know who wins tomorrow. My money is on Douvan.

Mr mix finished infront of min in the prix finot last season, bromley and paul nicholls bought mr mix for big money, harold kirk and pierre boullard bought min. They both had the same amount of time off the track to mature.
Mr mix is now a dog.
And min is a short fav for the supreme winning on the bridle un extended twice and looks a proper horse.
How can you explain that and say if Bromley bought min and he went to nicholls it would be more competitive.

The crux of the matter is....it is not who owns what but rather the owner does not have all his/her horses with the same yard; the current scenario with Coolmore ought to act as a reminder how uncompetitive racing can be if so!

scooby - which posts have got you thinking there is a need to defend WPM,s training ability? its a genuine question because it would help me understand

Scooby, that just shows that Mullins can be a master with these young horse, and he has an excellent team around him.  No one is denying that.

We're talking about the sport in general (regardless of if they payed £2 for the horse or £2m for the horse).  The Festival is supposed to be ultra competitive, where you dream of having just one winner.  Decent sized fields with quality laced through all the Grade 1 races.

Whilst Mullins camp is as good as he is, it can't be good when so many shorties are making these races, perceivably uncompetitive.  That's not Mullins' fault, its the fault of the others not bringing them through and challenging them.

We get some joke Grade 1's and 2's in Britian and Ireland - small fields, where one horse dominates.  I'd hate for festival races to start to go like that - recently we've had 6 and 7 runner Arkles - that can't be good, surely?  Douvan's Supreme had 12 runners, where the norm before that was at least 18 (Al Ferof's and Cinders and Ashes' had 24, Go Native's had 20).

Remember as well, antepost only makes up a fraction of the overall turnover for the festival, and not everyone wants to take the risk of backing one months and months in advance, so the SP of them is more important here than what price Min was back in September etc.

It's being said that all the horses being in the same yard and not running against each other isn't good for the sport.
But if these horses weren't bought by the wpm team. Imo you'd be having the same old moan about another bunch of horses in the wpm yard. And not mention the ones that are there now because they wouldn't be there. which you could spread douvan, vautour, arctic fire across other yards in england hypothetically saying they were purchased by bromley.
if nicholls got vautour and harold kirk bought black river, who beat vautour 6 lengths unextended, I think black river would have won more than once from 8 (a class 3 novice chase)
Would vautour still be the most talked about horse in the forum??? And A multiple grade 1 winner.
Would douvan be the star horse if harold kirk bought konigs day for more money and instead douvan went to mccain.
And would arctic be a class grade 1 horse if he went to david pipe?

I dont get envolved in forums much but i have to say the reply to my post by some was patronising true fans what are you talking about i travelled to cheltenham many times i love national hunt racing ive walked out of prestbury many a time with my pockets a lot lighter and still had a broad smile on my face . I dont understand where you are coming from anyone i know and it encompeses a wide range of people directly involved and like myself enjoying it from the sidelines does not share you views and will continue to jump on that plane religiously every year. Ive put this politely call yourselvrs true fans well trust me if you got shot of the likes us then you would be left with a different festival GET OF YOUR HIGH HORSES YOU ARROGANT .........

scooby - i get you think wpm is the best and from what you are saying you think that if other trainers had the same horses they would achieve a lot less with them. You may be right and if you are then all the more reason for the other trainers to improve so that there are many out there capable of doing what he does - because if he is as far ahead as you say and continues to be then future festivals will look very different quite quickly. All i am saying is that may not suit all of us and some of us will lose some enthusiasm. i know that you wont and thats ok good luck to you but some of us will. The festival is all of ours and i wouldnt want anybody that loves the festival to lose enthusiasm for it for any reason.

I understand what you are saying and agree with some points I was annoyed at the way some of the replyies portayed me as something i am not and tried to potray themselves as the true fans Yes i am a Mullins fan ,i also think Nicky is an absolute legion.Yes other trainers need to be more compitive dont ask me how im not that clever .I hope the festival keeps on but id say dont worry she will be fine in my lifetime and im hoping for another 20 if god spares me

I don't just think willie is the best, its the whole team. Which people seem to forget took a hell of a long time to  build up contacts and facilitys and a method of training to get to where they are now.
I'm only 24 years old, so it may be unusual for someone of my age to be as passionate about racing as I am, but I must say that i am very excited for the future,
May be having the same conversation jn 10 years time about young Joseph obrien, because like the godolphin ferguson operation. Hes going to be getting plenty of coolmore horses and is only a matter of time before a superstar will be unleashed Imo.

I don't just think willie is the best, its the whole team. Which people seem to forget took a hell of a long time to  build up contacts and facilitys and a method of training to get to where they are now.
I'm only 24 years old, so it may be unusual for someone of my age to be as passionate about racing as I am, but I must say that i am very excited for the future,
May be having the same conversation jn 10 years time about young Joseph obrien, because like the godolphin ferguson operation. Hes going to be getting plenty of coolmore horses and is only a matter of time before a superstar will be unleashed Imo.

i wouldnt even have a clue what the term true fan means and i dont very much care - its not a competition where people have to prove how much of a fan they are - i presume that if people are taking time to post on this forum rather than do one of the inifinite number of other things with their time they are fans, but then i have always been naive and ideallist.

so again if messrs nicholls, henderson et al are listening - there are some that think your abilities are some way short of wpm and that you wouldnt achieve what he has with the same horses - if they are right you need to get your act together quickly before closing the gap becomes insurmountable. Lets for purpose of argument say that scooby is correct - having another half dozen or so trainers equally as good would imo be great for racing and absolutely secure my and others enthusiasm for many years to come.

It cant be argued willie seem massively ahead this year will probably prove this but i think he cant get more dominant and then as always happens you are watching out for the next ones coming up and the Aul ones making a come back HENRY CECIL RIP things will always change but even if it stayed as is for the next decade i for one would not have any issues

One last thing I will say is I backed min at 25/1 for supreme when I saw him in the france galop deportation list as bought by pierre boullard/ harold kirk and to be deported to ireland. I diddnt back this blind just because it was trained by willie. I put my money and faith in that both hk and pb know and can source a good horse and that willie, the staff and the work horses can get the required improvement out of him.
rich ricci then later said the supreme is the target; he has a great turn of foot and he's very excited about him, which led to him being cut to 12s.
I very much doubt he would ever read this, but I think it's great for the sport how open rich is with his horses and is in the position that he dosent gamble himself but has no problems passing on honest and accurate assessments of his horses to fans and punters.

One last thing I will say is I backed min at 25/1 for supreme when I saw him in the france galop deportation list as bought by pierre boullard/ harold kirk and to be deported to ireland. I diddnt back this blind just because it was trained by willie. I put my money and faith in that both hk and pb know and can source a good horse and that willie, the staff and the work horses can get the required improvement out of him.
rich ricci then later said the supreme is the target; he has a great turn of foot and he's very excited about him, which led to him being cut to 12s.
I very much doubt he would ever read this, but I think it's great for the sport how open rich is with his horses and is in the position that he dosent gamble himself but has no problems passing on honest and accurate assessments of his horses to fans and punters.

Fair play 25s lovely im happy with my 10s and absolutely agree Ricci is someone i think we need in the you wont go far wrong listing to what he says

Scooby, you are massively in the minority though, checking French form, who bought him, looking at France Galop etc.  It's very good research, but again, its the bigger picture.

There will always be the astute ones who can pick one out months in advance doing a lot of research, but most people don't.

The vast majority of people will place their bet on the day if the race when the markets are strong.

If this was Nicholls who was dominating in this way, I think we'd be having this same conversation, so this isn't a Mullins thing.  I don't want the Festival to be like the Scottish Premier League were Celtic win every week and it becomes a bit boring.  I'll be screaming Barters Hill home even though I haven't got a penny on him.

One thing we agree on.
I'll be screaming barters hill home too got plenty on at 10s any race
Shantou village 10s any race
Yanworth 12s any race
Tombstone 168.0 supreme 110 neptune.
In no way is it a willie mullins love in. Just want his horses in my book at a huge price before the inevitable happens

The long and short of this people are actually complaining about one team doing a better job than his rivals as far as betting is concerned ive seen value in the markets and took it ,not just mullins,on the day there will be plenty of betting oportunities , there are many ways to skin a cat ,from a specticle and a betting point of view there will be no problems other than for thoses who cant have things go the way they want it too when betting

I love a big price listened to mccoy on c4 when he retired and the horse he would miss for next year More of that chasing couldnt beleive the prices they laid

To be honest, if Scooby got the initiative to look on the France Galop deportation list, he deserves to back a 25/1 winner, good luck to him - I'd be excited if I had 25/1 Min but I don't.

Personally I'm less sold on Ricci - telling me Vautour is 20kg lighter than previous race 5 mins before King George does n't help me really cos I don't know the comparative weights of the other horses and I don't know what Vautour weighed when he won at Cheltenham last March.

Ricci is open but he's only relaying what the professionals tell him - listening to him is akin to going to Mullins for financial advice. I could listen to Mullins all day long - the best interviews are the ones after racing is done for the day with Gary O'Brien (or Lydia last week) - his comments are always measured, considered and thoughtful and he comes across as a really nice bloke to boot. I like listening to Ruby's bulletins too although he is perhaps a little less personable and sometimes gives the impression the media work is a chore (it probably is for him!) but he comes up with angles which I had n't considered.

With regard to the future and the comments above about the value of the whole team, it's worth remembering that Nicholls has lost Skelton and Fry plus NJH lost Pauling (I think?) and the guy with the massive accumulator who went to train in US (his name escapes me) amongst others - possibly the equivalent in one or two cases of Man U losing Cristiano Ronaldo.

It must help WPM that key team members are also family members but it's not inconceivable that the likes of Danny and Patrick Mullins would like to strike out on their own at some point ala Joseph O'Brien. Ruby, too, will surely eventually have aspirations to train, although I read an article recently where he intimated retirement from the saddle was n't on the horizon anytime soon. That could be a game changer, to me it was noticeable that the Hannon stable struggled a little after Richard Hughes retired in the middle of last summer.

In short, the dynamic will change because it always does.

Iv got a few very nice mullins horses lined up for the Handicaps too deported form france and not eligible to run in novice hurdles. One in particular that's owned by jp mcmanus and a small minority of people will know the horse I mean, That are not in the betting for anything.
Any idea when handicap entries are out??

Sorry mate dont but cheers for the info will definately watch out for any horses fitting that profile

I think Mullins is great for racing. On the flats there's nobody like him, and for punters/fans/owners there's maybe nobody , or very few like him in the jumps. Very few are as decent with updates without keeping the info for paid articles. We're also lucky his biggest owner is a straight talker who is camera friendly, and Ruby doesn't hold back either.  If you like good horses, they have them aswell.  I wouldn't grudge him winning anything.  If you wannae oppose his runners, go ahead their presence in bumping the fractions up. I'm not on any big prices for any of his, and i won't start judging people through my bet slips, or lack of them.

How things change. It was only a two years or so ago he was getting slated on here for always changing his mind on where his horses were running, not making running plans clear, entering everything in every race and stable staff profiting on Betfair by hoovering up all the prices when they know they won't run.

I haven't got a problem with Ricci, but this is the same team who said Champagne Fever was running in the Albert Bartlett about 2 days before he won the Supreme.

I covered some of those possibilities and i wastnt in the stable if i didnt id be a bit miffed but there was always away to cover yourself and make money

How times change.
I remember when the only time an owner was mentioned was when the great P o.sullivan called their name after the race.

Now we have an owner who people listen to in relation to their wagers.

I have also seen an owner ( Clive smith)signing autographs!! By all means get Kautos hoof print,but an owners autograph??

Still if an owner helps you make money,I can see the attraction of spending time listening.
Mind you I have yet to see Mr Riccis eyes so not sure to trust him


Not sure why people keep defending Mr Mullins on here,the ones who are concerned for the festival are wanting other connections to step up,not having a go at him for being so good.

May be a bit obvious but imo the reason  willie dosent say a clear  target and puts in the block entries for cheltenham is to scare the opposition away as much as it is to keep the plans open
We all know
Supreme
min  25/1
Yorkhill 32.0

Neptune
Bellshill 14/1
Long dog 12/1 any race
Bachasson 54.0

Bartlett
Up for review 8/1
Gangster  I haven't backed
Nambour  23.0 poor bet by me

The only doubtful is petit mouchoir. Neptune or handicap. And i would expect one of pylon the pressure and au quort du tour will go bartlett

Scooby,
Those horses that Cunningham mentioned as the best 2m hurdles,I have no idea if they would be as good had other trainers got them.
I would like to think they would know enough about their trade to be so though,especially the likes of Nichols,Elliott,Henderson,Hobbs,King etc.
If they don't that's a worry for them,Us and the sport in general.
Just say if they did get them as good and they all had one each,how would you feel in the build up to a festival with all of them entered in the CH?
I know how I would feel!!
It's kind of what I am saying in regards to one trainer dominating a sport and the danger that could bring to the future enjoyment of that sports flagship meeting.

Dominance of any kind may it be horse racing, formula 1, football, (Celtic in the SPL, a very good example), swimming, etc, is not good for that sport; it is not just about backing winners but more about enjoying the sight of the best competitors taking part to ensure quality and competitiveness ie as many runners from different stables as possible eg The Grand National (GN), a race where dominance is a near impossibility.

I'm not saying every race ought to be like the GN but to have good/valuable races where one horse or one stable dominated proceeding resulting in low single digit runners as were the cases recently cannot truly be good for the sport. Thank-goodness this is not the case on the flat eg Goldophin, running their horses on merits from different (outside) stables rather than just their own.

Anyway, lets not get too hacked off and emotive,.....it is only a sport after all!

The triumvirate of Mullins/Ricci/Walsh are riding the crest of a wave at the minute but it will not last forever. They might get another couple of seasons at hoovering up the top prizes but they will come back to the pack. The only way it can be considered bad for racing is if the top horses aren't running against each other in the top races. I think all 3 are good communicators and are generally speaking very good for the game. Anyone who argues otherwise is more than likely talking through their pocket.

I honestly wouldn't be so keen to see them all in the champion hurdle, it would massively take away a lot of competitiveness from the other races at the festival. Just to have one very good race, which already  looks a very good race as it is to me. I get what you mean and I'd like to see that race deffinately, but not to the detriment of the festival as a whole,  If you said that race at punchestown for a huge pot where there seems to be smaller fields, after theyve took in there current cheltenham targets , id see it as taking less away from the meeting. 

The 4 day line up is very strong atm imo

Also I'm not saying alan king or henderson couldn't train them horses now that they are almost the finished article.
What i believe is that if they got them from when they were purchased, they wouldn't have developed into the horses they are now at willies yard.

I would love to see them all in the Champion - imagine Faugheen, UDS, Vautour and Douvan all in the same race!  It would go down in history as one of the best of all time, like the Sea Pigeon/Monksfield/Night Nurse days.  That's well before I was born, but even I know about those duels.

If they were all in the Champion Hurdle, while you would lose some superstars from the other race; thr Arkle would be more open now with L'ami, Garde, Vaniteux, Ar Mad etc battling it out, Sprinter, Sire de Grugy, Special Tiara, Dodoging Bullets would make a tough to call Champion Chase, no Vautour in the Gold Cup would still make it a brilliant Gold Cup.

Sometimes the one superstar that's miles ahead of the race is to the detriment of the race itself.

Well you would have UDS out of the QM,Douvan out of the Arkle and Vautour out of the Gold Cup or Ryanair.
The Gold Cup is competitive with or without Vautour not so much I admit but still competitive, and I guess the Ryanair would be more competitive without him.
It could be argued that the Arkle and QM would be more competitive without Douvan and UDS,and we would still get to see them all at the festival.
Can't see anything wrong with that myself.

Completely get what you mean, I just like the potential of there being a superstar in every grade 1 race, none of the horses you've mentioned are by any means certs in there current races. We will only find that out in march.

I think we can safely say that Mullins considered Faugheen > Vautour at CH level since he had the choice of sending either down that route when many expected their roles to go the other way. Douvan may well have gone CH had Faugheen not been around and it will be interesting to see what Mullins does with Min next season.

For me qm without uds would be poor. I genuinely have no idea how good un de sceaux is compared to sprinter dodge and sire special tiara etc... he's got the potential to win.
But I honestly have no idea, I think he's very short at 7/4 and will drift.

Douvan v lami serge is something I'm really looking forward to as I believe in the trapped epiglotis story and henderson disbelief that he wasn't atleast 2nd in the supreme.

Vautour I really hope lines up in the gold cup. Because going left handed and especially at cheltenham we have no idea how good he is when fully fit compared to the field.
If he goes ryan air I will be a little dissapointed but if he puts in a round like the jlt. My money won't be on, but would be a great sight to see.

For me qm without uds would be poor. I genuinely have no idea how good un de sceaux is compared to sprinter dodge and sire special tiara etc... he's got the potential to win.
But I honestly have no idea, I think he's very short at 7/4 and will drift.

Douvan v lami serge is something I'm really looking forward to as I believe in the trapped epiglotis story and henderson disbelief that he wasn't atleast 2nd in the supreme.

Vautour I really hope lines up in the gold cup. Because going left handed and especially at cheltenham we have no idea how good he is when fully fit compared to the field.
If he goes ryan air I will be a little dissapointed but if he puts in a round like the jlt. My money won't be on, but would be a great sight to see.

Vautour with UDS along with the other seasoned campaigners in the QM will be the race of the Festival I'd think, doubt it will happen though, but glad to be corrected if so.

Agree on that would be mouth watering

And lets not forget Sprinter

scooby - imagine a time when the edge you get from being so industrious, diligent and professional in your approach is no longer possible because it has happened frequently and layers (either betfair or bookmakers) learn their lesson and are no longer willing to take any risks because they have been burnt - goose and golden egg - this is what i meant in one of my first posts - make hay while the sun shines because there will come a time soon (if this continues as is) where no mullins novice will be available at anything like a decent price until it proves itself to be not good enough. imagine if theres a layer out there that has been stung by douvan, gets stung again by min - what are they going to do just stand up rocky like and say come on keep knocking me down and ill keep getting up until you tire yourself out. Layers will make whatever adjustment however draconian they feel is necessary. Then people will be moaning that they can only get 3-1 for their good thing (before its even run) and not 50-1 because everyone has shut up shop. If you get done once shame on them if you get done a second time shame on you.

At that point you may find yourself in the ironic position of hoping other trainers step up their game so you can get parity once more and get your edge back.

I do get what your saying believe me. But I like to enjoy each festival as it comes and this one I'm looking  forward to alot, i use it as a way of saving money for family holidays etc. ..
I don't earn a great deal compared to some so I feel that with punting I have to back far out antepost and gather as much information as I can and go on my gut reading of the form and how I think the season will work out.
High risk but big reward IF I'm right.
I can afford to have £100 on min at 25/1 and take a risk. But in no way can I afford to put £1000 on at 6/4.
My whole book revolves around double figure prices. Apart from faugheen at 6/4 but I only allowed myself to back that because I took a risk and have £200 ew on nicholls canyon at 20/1. I don't worry if horses are odds in now because I was either on at 3/1 like douvan when I could afford to. Or I won't be on like un de sceaux who's too short atm Imo and can't afford to get what I want to win from what price he is.

So you're saying you're more than happy and can afford to fire £100 on a hype horse who had modest form in France and was yet to be seen in Britain/Ireland at 25/1 about 8 months before Cheltenham and knowing the particular horses target at the festival? Must be richer than you think my friend!

I'm also guessing you had a fair bit of winnings from Mullins Day 1 Cheltenham last year and that has carried onto this year? Fairytales don't happen in racing, as I harshly found out when Annie went down at the last!

£100 at 25/1 and £200 each way at 20/1 ... looks good now but what if Min ended up being a dog or Neptune bound? And Nichols Canyon was upped in trip for the World Hurdle? That's £500 down the drain on 2 ante post bets alone! But yet you wouldn't back £1000 on a proven horse on the day at 6/4? Madness but that's just my opinion! Good luck!

totally get it scooby and i wish you every success. you clearly have your head screwed on and deserve the success you are getting. I actually think the best chance you have of maintaining your success and ensuring you take full advantage as your own earning power increases is for things to be as tough as possible so you continue to have an edge over the bandwagon jumpers. The best advice i heard when i started punting was to watch what everybody else does and make sure you do something different. You are doing that right now but when everybody else starts cottoning on you will most likely need to find a new angle.Good Luck

I put £40 at 50/1 for the neptune too.
Nothing to do with hype, id never even heard of the horse. I made a list myself of all the novices in willies yard. Of which there is still 1 juvenile that cost €230.000 at arqana yet to run lyric light who I haven't backed  And 2 horses that are winners so won't be qualified as a novice yet to run.
Bonbons au miel
And the horse who split Admiral chief and min in work at thurles called GREAT FIELD owned by jp mc manus.

I put £40 at 50/1 for the neptune too.
Nothing to do with hype, id never even heard of the horse. I made a list myself of all the novices in willies yard. Of which there is still 1 juvenile that cost €230.000 at arqana yet to run lyric light who I haven't backed  And 2 horses that are winners so won't be qualified as a novice yet to run.
Bonbons au miel
And the horse who split Admiral chief and min in work at thurles called GREAT FIELD owned by jp mc manus.

scobby,

Well done! £100 @25/1 on Min and £200 e/w @20/1 on Nichols Canyon, you can now lay off your liabilities and more, and still be in with a very good profit no matter what especially with Min at 6/4 or evens.

Paterson. Nicholls canyon was always going champion hurdle.
My inerpretation of the form after aintree and punchestown was very strong and there was a completerly valid excuse for the run kn the nepthne where they new little about the horse and ruby held him up when head strong.
willie mullins said himself after punchestown and  an atr interviewer said ruby thought he would make a nice stayer next year "i bet he said that,don't listen to ruby, of course he going to say that, he can only ride one one horse in the race. this feller will be a champion hurdle horse for us next season"
Paddy power were 8/1 for ch when everyone 16s and 20s And 14/1 standout when everyone else were 7s for wh. That's as much as I need to go on.

I think a lot could still depend on the Irish Champion if the big 3 all run (as WPM says today is likely - but I can't see happening) But say Faugheen gave it a miss and NC was to get trounced by AF, what would be the point of running in the Champion then, scoob?

I don't lay off. I back others in the race as cover.
CH faugheen 6/4 arctic fire 8/1 ew nrnb.
Supreme
tombstone 168.0
Yanworth 12s any race
Yorkhill 32.0 and 25/1
Moon racer 27.0
And I may back altior at 7s. The plan was to cover this Friday at 8s when I got paid but shortened up on the Wednesday.  Also a little annoyed I diddnt cover before his last race, and I don't think he has beat a great deal so I'm undecided

Why Min out of every Mullins novice? Wasn't that along ago I heard about a horse called Townshend, that was in fact shorter than Min in the Supreme betting! You back that as well?

NC won't be trounced by AF, I only want a place in the ch and am happy if AF beats him in the irish champion not a problem for me as on him fairly big ew nrnb for the champion.
I expect faugheen to win, and atleast one of AF and NC to be placed in the champion. If and that is an if,  AF dosent run in the ch. That won't bother me either cos nrnb and more space in the frame for NC

Can't quite get across what I'm meaning so apologies. Another way of looking at it is, the one everyone wanted to be on last year was Allez Colombieres, no one had heard of Douvan about 14 months ago ....

Nichols Canyon (NC) and Shaneshill (same ownership), and it was the latter that was 'sacrificed' for the Supreme (Douvan/Ricci) despite the former having been campaigned consistently over 16/18f prior to Cheltenham 2015; this season a sudden about turn by its the top trainer!.

Correct patterson i backed townshend at 16/1 and laid off at 18/1 on bf after hearing rich ricci later interview on atr. I also backed william henry at 78.0 and laid off at 70.0 when I found out he was injured.

impossible123
impossible123 10 Jan 16 10:45 Joined: 07 Sep 15 | Topic/replies: 80 | Blogger: impossible123's blog
Douvan, the winner of the Supreme 2015, ought to be running in the Champion Hurdle (a natural progression) but instead it is now destined for the Arkle at odds of 4/7, a ridiculous price and a disservice and mockery to jump racing in my opinion.

We are all entitled to out opinion, but isn't this a bit strong? A disservice and a mockery? Plenty of Supreme winner have gone chasing. It's a bit harsh to suggest they should go down the CH route, especially when they have the odds on fsv for the race. Presumably it's a mockery Vautour went chasing then?

despite two rather tame efforts at Auteuil, Mullins' French experts Pierre Boulard and Harold Kirk decided it was worth taking a chance on the Walk In The Park gelding.

"Min was not overly expensive at all," said Mullins about the Rich and Susannah Ricci-owned five-year-old who was on Sunday cut to a general 6-4 (from 7-4) after bookmakers reported sustained support for him to win the opening race at the Cheltenham Festival after Saturday's sizzling success at Punchestown.

Clue in the pedigree

"If you look at his form in France, he was beaten quite a distance in his two runs, so he didn't have a huge price tag. The reason we were so interested in him at the time was because he was by Walk In The Park, who was the same sire as Douvan. 

"At the time we thought quite a bit of Douvan, even though it was very early in his career, so we thought it might be worth taking a chance on Min and that is what we did. 

"Yannick Fouin did recommend him to us and Harold and Pierre  both liked him. But he wasn't overly expensive at all. It is not always about spending the most money and Min proves that."

Mullins said that Min is unlikely to run again before the Cheltenham Festival after emerging from his impressive win in the Sky Bet Moscow Flyer Novice Hurdle in good shape."I would say it's likely Min will head straight there now. He was fine this morning," Mullins added.

If so, at the current rate of contraction Min will be nearer evens come February, a very tempting prospect for laying him I'd imagine.

Apologies for my earlier post the mullins 3yo harold kirk purchased on behalf of s ricci is RIVEN LIGHT. A €200,000 son of ravens pass and a smart flat performer
Not lyric light as I earlier posted.
With him not being seen yet, may have been put away with next year's supreme in mind. Or he may be a late springer for the triumph.
One to keep in the note book

Apologies for my earlier post the mullins 3yo harold kirk purchased on behalf of s ricci is RIVEN LIGHT. A €200,000 son of ravens pass and a smart flat performer
Not lyric light as I earlier posted.
With him not being seen yet, may have been put away with next year's supreme in mind. Or he may be a late springer for the triumph.
One to keep in the note book

not the 1st day,but hes got about
8 in the 1st ten in the betting
on here for the Neptune.

It is not a 2 dimensional as this but flip side is these favorites do get beat, and often push the odds up of the horses that beat them, so if you fancy something else back with confidence. They didn't all win last year and they won't all win this year

BETWAY have an offer for ALL customers today.

DOUVAN, FAUGHEEN & UN DE SCEAUX  10/1. 

It's just today.  Not the best bookies, but I think it's worth taking.

Apologies for being a bit off thread, but it's similar.

Do you know how much max bet?
Assuming they will let you withdraw if it win too

£10.53 for me

I got £20

Is it still available please?

Just to say my £20 back in my Betway account and no unsettled bets. Should have known.

Shocking outfit they seem to ring me most Sundays because I once opened an account and then thought different about betting with them.