Cheltenham Festival
There is currently 1 person viewing this thread.
min
douvan
faugheen
and an annie power that this time stays on her feet.
douvan
faugheen
and an annie power that this time stays on her feet.
sort by:
Show
per page
Replies: 133
|
By:
14-15/1
|
|
By:
Be a tad concerned Re Annie turning up...what's the latest with her?
|
|
By:
Think Mullins said that all was going well, the last time I saw him asked about her.
|
|
By:
While one man has all the fire power, and the rich owners, races like the Supreme, Arkle and Champion Hurdle will only suffer. I love those races, but unless you've backed the three above months in advance, it's almost a write off betting wise.
I think that's why the Gold Cup has had so much debate - there are a number of good horses, all with flaws, but all can win it, are at basically a similar level, and something to get your teeth into. A small number of shorties/odd on are expected, like when we had Big Bucks, Master Minded, Quevega a few years ago, but I think it's getting a bit stupid now. |
|
By:
Guess she will turn up nice and fresh then.
Did this bet last year,but I did have better odds than I would get now,luckily I had the treble as well. Ain't bothered doing the 4 this year,but I do have the first 3 with Bellshill in the Neptune,thought that might be the better way to go,although the Neptune is quiet hard to know whose running. To be honest I think all of the first 3 races are more competitive than maybe a lot on here think. |
|
By:
Just to add,that accumulator is my only lazy(my label for it)bet I will be doing.
And I do think it highly likely they won't all win..........but just in case!! |
|
By:
Absolutely spot on Well Chief, and it's getting worse. Mullins a great trainer no doubt, but him and his owners are just hoovering up all the good young horses, every year.
When you think about it, for the same owner/trainer/jockey combination to win the supreme 3 years in a row, is unprecedented, but when you can gazump everyone going for the best young horses every season, its not hugely surprising. There seems no end in sight. richy rich in particular is ludicroulsy rich. |
|
By:
They said on the Final Furlong podcast a few weeks back that actually, it was Paul Nicholls who'd be hoovering up the main, highly-touted French talent this year. Not sure how credible that is but it's an interesting point to consider.
|
|
By:
yeh,I don't like it either,makes you wonder about the future for sure.
Where does it all end? Probably only a matter of time before the Gold Cup gets affected. Maybe that's when the racing world wakes up,cos at the moment it seems like a Mullins love fest in the media,and on here!! |
|
By:
If you start a thread on a horse and can be sure within 20 posts it'll be discussing Min/Vautour/Douvan ect ect, It's just so f@cking boring.
WC a point well made. |
|
By:
I can possibly understand owners and trainers being anoyed that one team is so dominent but as a punter and a cheltenham maniac long may it continue i will never get bored of talking about cracking horses , well done Willie and well done Rich enjoy ,if your smiling in March a whole lot of punters will be to , would luv to see Vautour in the Gold Cup you may never get the chance again , some cracking staying chasers this year would be great to see them all get there , shame about Conygree
|
|
By:
As a £20 punter I love studying up and trying to either get on a Mullins horse, or trying to get them beat.
I can understand how it irks the more serious bettors from a fiscal point of view, but from a purely objective viewpoint, it's superb seeing so many good horses, and races. Also, we've still got the handicaps to try and workout, which is great fun, too. Not got any of the tasty prices on Min myself, and was a whisker from having a nice Vautour KG/GC double live going into Cheltenham. Regardless, it's shaping up to be a cracking week, so roll on March! |
|
By:
like some others i too am getting increasingly concerned - Moat, TR and others that are happy with how things are going - that is great for you all and my post is in no way to tell you i disagree as everybody is entitled to their own perspective - the point for me however is that there are many similarly fanatical cheltenhamphiles that do not share your perspective and the fact that this divide is starting to appear has the potential to be damaging for racing and for the festival itself not because of right or wrong but simply because it is divisive. The festival week has been by some distance my favourite week of the year for as long as i can remember and for the first time i am questioning whether it still will be in 10 years time. I hope it is, but if it isnt for me then my guess is it wont be for many others and irrespective of your point of view that will be damaging.
my love affair with cheltenham was never going to be remotely threatened by 3 or 4 days, or the emergence of the ryanair or even by the emergence of a 2 1/2 mile senior hurdle race but i am aware that if too much talent rests with too few then it will be threatened. |
|
By:
As much as this is getting stupid you have to admit that it was a phenomenal feat for team WPM/RR/Ruby to win the Supreme Hurdle (the so-called graveyard for favs) the last two years. And now it looks likely they could make a third consecutive? Terrible for bettors but great for the racing fan.
Ricci is having a purple patch and you can rest assured it will end sooner rather then later. This is why he should be running he stars in the better races now. Also the huge plus of all this WPM dominance is the fact that the Irish will one day win the highly coveted Prestbury Cup. You may laugh but when we win it this year it will be a broadsheet headliner (in Ireland at least). Pretty amazing when it wasn't too long ago we could barely win a couple. |
|
By:
I'm more concerned with making it another 10 years, nevermind worrying about what will be going on at Cheltenham in 10 years
 |
|
By:
You're forgetting Champagne Fever maelduin. Ricci has already won 3 in a row, he's going for 4.
|
|
By:
None so blind
|
|
By:
Don't get me wrong, I love getting great horses at Cheltenham; it's where they belong.
It's just a shame there isn't anything of real depth in some of the great races to take the Mullins ones on; and I'm not anti Mullins in the slightest. The Tuesday has always been my favourite day; it's by far the highest quality card of the four imo, but I'd think about twice about going - not because I don't want to see Min, Faugheen etc, but the sense of anticipation you normally get from day one of the festival is in danger of going imo, when you you think, "I won't have a bet in the Supreme, Arkle, Champion Hurdle or Mares because I've missed the big prices and I can't see them getting beat." With the likes of Sprinter being massive odds on in the past, that didn't bother me because that was only one race and it was a pleasure to see him in his prime, but when you've got four in one day, all with the same trainer who are likely to go off at odds on, it doesn't make me as excited as when say The Fly, Jezki, The New One and Our Conor lined up in the Champion without any idea who'd win - Faugheen would probably beat them all, but it was great excitement in the build up. |
|
By:
You can sure tell who are the true racing fans who care about the sport are on here,and those who claim to be true racing fans but actually just want a buck or two the easiest way possible.
Or is that the laziest way possible? |
|
By:
wellchief - i feel exactly the same - and the thing about feelings is that they cannot be right or wrong they just are, they are personal property and as such are not up for debate. For those that are celebrating the wpm/rr emergence and hope it continues to grow - imagine what this forum would be like if the only people left on it were like minded people because the rest of us had lost our enthusiasm - be careful what you wish for.
If messrs nichols, henderson, elliott et al are listening - sort yourselves out and start fighting back, one man is not only eating your lunch, but your breakfast and dinner too - because not everyone likes the way it is going and some of us are relying on you all to get your act together. |
|
By:
nicholls - just in case someone thought i was referring to nichols canyon
 |
|
By:
...it doesn't make me as excited as when say The Fly, Jezki, The New One and Our Conor lined up in the Champion without any idea who'd win
How could I have forgotten My Tent or Yours  |
|
By:
Despite what people think I can say with concrete evidence that willie mullins isn't in the position he is with a vast majority of the best horses because he's got the owners with more money than anyone else.
This is not the truth at all. Pierre boullard in France and harold kirk in Ireland source and buy there horses, these 2 men are an excellent judge of a horse, they scour the small yards in france and through the sales books, and willie stands by there judgement entirely. They buy horses that have only ran a couple of times, have been maybe placed or 4th or 5th without being given a hard time, give them plenty of time and work between being purchased and when they run under rules. They spend nowhere near as much as jp mcmanus, and giggingstown who source the vast majority of there own horses. Willie does not fill boxes in the stable for the sake of it, and keeps the standard very high. Because of this They have the best horses to work with each other on the gallops and Imo this is what gets the improvement out of them. Also his placing of a young horse is second to none, the horses get so many block entries rather than a set target which allows him to choose which horses go where day by day. Those that say he's just thrown a load of money at it and got lucky, I suggest a look through the sales books and see the prices that horses have made and where they are now. Jonjonjo oneil had 4 bumper winners for jp last season that cost over 250,000 euro and haven't even won a maiden hurdle or bumper yet. That's the same situation in many a yard. And as someone who eluded to earlier, paul nicholls at both the arqana sales and through private sales spent huge amounts on horses with 75% of them already being winners in france. And he's not having a great time of it at all with his novices. It's OK having the money to spend but you have to find the right horses to spend it on. Imo that is a very special talent in its own right and something harold kirk and pierre boulard and get right very often. They deserve everything they win imo |
|
By:
Great post scooby and couldn't agree more. WPM has surrounded himself with simply excellent judges. Possibly no better example than Min, whose form looked pretty average prior to his debut for connections.
|
|
By:
i couldnt give a monkeys why he is in the position he is. it matters not one jot to me whether he is the best trainer that ever lived or the fortunate benefactor of others genius/money. Like i mean nothing to him, he means nothing to me. Racing on the other hand and cheltenham in particualar mean a great deal
|
|
By:
Ms.
I really don't get your problem?? |
|
By:
scooby - expand
|
|
By:
Your problem with wpm his owners and horses being bad for cheltenham.
Imo I have huge anticipation for the festival this year |
|
By:
A thread creating a hostage to fortune if ever I saw one. Mullins and team are clearly doing plenty right and won't be willingly stopping. Others are clearly going to have to turn over new stones and find plenty of marginal gains to make significant strides. I remember reading someone posting several years ago that JP needed to get someone else in to source his horses. Clearly Mullins' team is doing this exceptionally at the moment and others need to take note.
|
|
By:
That was an excellent post btw Scooby.
I'm not having a go at Mullins, he is a master at what he does (with hurdlers particularly, but his chase record is improving); and as you say he has an excellent team around him. It's more we need the other trainers to step up to the mark, especially when you say they are spending huge amount of money. It's the perceived lack of competition that could be damaging, where races that are the building blocks of the festival become less and less interesting. It can't be good when one man, with one owner has four odds on shots in one day, whether that be Mullins, Nicholls, Hendo etc. That's my point of view anyway. |
|
By:
scooby - you misunderstand - i am entirely apathetic towards wpm and owners - i am only interested in the sport as a whole and cheltenham holistically - i dont want ANY owner or ANY trainer to dominate the festival and it just so happens that the wpm/rr partnership is starting to dominate more than i am comfortable with and if it gets much more so i for one will lose enthusiasm for the festival as a whole. - if you read my post 21:24 you will see that i am hoping the other trainers catch up but thats all as i wouldnt want any of them to dominate either.
|
|
By:
Yep,totally with Chief and Miltons, I share their feelings for the festival and its future.
Cannot be good to have 3 odds on shots on the 1st day all owned and trained by the same connections,it will diminish this great occasion if it carries on and probably will get worse. |
|
By:
also scooby read my post 19:36 - i am happy for you that you are excited about the festival - i am not saying you are wrong - this is a personal feeling you have yours and i have mine - my point is if this gets more extreme then two camps will start to emerge - those that like and appreciate the wpm dominance and those that dont - those that dont will then lose enthusiasm if it continues to grow and thats what i mean by devisive.
|
|
By:
divisive obviously
|
|
By:
I accept your opinions but I just don't see his dominance as bad for the game,
There's alot of competition in the festival this year as much between willies own horses as out of it, think the ricci v wylie horses will be very interesting as they both have horses with great ability. In the champion he could have Imo a 123 but all different owners and excellent horses. Between the novices you have altior buveur dair yanworth yorkhill tombstone shantou village bellshill min barters hill up for review Long dog moon racer. Yes willie has a good few out of them but that's by the teams good judgement and work, and if they beat the horses around them wich I rate very highly, they deserve all the praise they get I just want to see the best horses at the festival ever that's in willies yard or out of it it makes no difference to me. |
|
By:
I accept your opinions but I just don't see his dominance as bad for the game,
There's alot of competition in the festival this year as much between willies own horses as out of it, think the ricci v wylie horses will be very interesting as they both have horses with great ability. In the champion he could have Imo a 123 but all different owners and excellent horses. Between the novices you have altior buveur dair yanworth yorkhill tombstone shantou village bellshill min barters hill up for review Long dog moon racer. Yes willie has a good few out of them but that's by the teams good judgement and work, and if they beat the horses around them wich I rate very highly, they deserve all the praise they get I just want to see the best horses at the festival ever that's in willies yard or out of it it makes no difference to me. |
|
By:
scooby it is not an opinion it is how i feel
|
|
By:
and what i fear will be bad for the game is if people like me that have loved cheltenham for so long lose their enthusiasm - you telling me i should still be enthusiastic because you are doesnt really help ( i know you havent literally said this but the inference is there and that is why this is not a right or wrong debate it is about differences in how people feel which cant be debated - i have nothing against wpm and understand his desire to dominate - but for the most part sports become less interesting the fewer people dominate - you are right at the moment there are a number of intiguing races- but to me unless the other trainers start to step up to the plate this will be less and less so in the future
|
|
By:
Its a complete coincidence that ricci has 4 big favs on day 1. Before the start of the season Douvan was 4/1 arkle and min was 50/1 supreme.
Also Rest of the week he only has vautour (was 4/1 ryanair) and Djakadam (was 14/1) that are in the top few in the betting and they could even line up together. |