Vroum Vroum Mag

Cant see them switching back to fences with her, but intrigued as to what they are planning.

Suppose she might still be saved and miss Chelts altogether.

Mares allowance in the World Hurdle?

Maybe so. That looks the likeliest to me. Or Annie WH?! And VVM in the Mares? Starting to look as these will be the two races for the horses....

I would have loved to see VVM in the Ryanair myself, but the World Hurdle would be fun too. It does suggest that Vautour is pencilled in for the Ryanair, I fear. I think we would all love to see Annie in a Championship race, but I think after last year they feel that they have unfinished business in the Mares Hurdle. And of course the whole stable - the whole district in fact - is on the big first day multiple.

Willie Mullins is keen to learn more about Vroum Vroum Mag's potential Cheltenham Festival target if he allows her to line up in the OLBG.com Mares' Hurdle at Ascot on Saturday.

The seven-year-old is unbeaten in six starts over fences in Ireland and was just as impressive when switched back to smaller obstacles at Clonmel last month.

Mullins told OLBG: "I'm very keen to bring her over for the OLBG Mares' Hurdle at Ascot on Saturday.

"She's entered in the World Hurdle and the OLBG Mares' Hurdle at the Festival and Saturday will help us decide which route to take."

Vroum Vroum Mag is one of 12 entries for the Ascot Grade Two contest, with Desert Queen, Aurore D'Estruval and The Govaness among her possible opponents.

That's great news. Just took a few for the WH @ 10/1 NRNB.

I cannot believe she is top price 10/1 for the World Hurdle, she is that purely because of connections and reputation alone.

Run exclusively in mares hurdles and chases, with her last 5 races all being 8 runners or less, nearly always on heavy ground and massive odds on in all of them.  Even though she'll get the mares allowance, she is 13lbs behind Thistlecrack.

Not one for me sorry.

I think the Mullins team are well aware of how stiff a challenge Thistlecrack will be in the WH - due to Ruby's association with the horse. They know they need a special one to take him on and that's why they've sent VVM hurdling again. They think a lot of her and they are desperate to have a go at the Grand Slam. The WH is the most difficult leg for them I guess.

I'm with wellchief here. The fact she stays hurdling is a negative in itself for me as it points to her not being as good as the yard's main novice chasers in either of the 3 divisions - she seems versatile enough to be in the frame for any trip. It was only the other week Mullins was saying how good she looked over fences wasn't it?

I think the only possible scenario i'd consider her for any hurdles race is if it's the mares on the back of Annie power not lining up but even then she'd be overbet and around the same price Annie is now with plenty chasing their Annie ante post loss on the replacement. That would only strengthen my play in the mares as it is and i'd be going back in again -  i've already backed polly peachum each way 12/1 to get a better return if she places than what an annie power win would get me at best price now. Much less risk, especially after showing she can go on heavy now which hints at an improvement again over the summer. Can't have the govanness reversing that form on spring ground so can't work out what 3 can pass her based on how consistently she posts figures of mid 150s.

If she went the world hurdle it'd hopefully beef Thistlecrack's price back up a bit and i'd be back in there on him.

Unless you're going to gamble on her target at today's prices there's surely other bets to be had over the 4 days at the same price she'd be once targets confirmed?

Saturday will tell the tale in terms of her Cheltenham target race. I must admit I thought she would have been ear marked as a Ryanair horse at the start of the season and would have expected her to have a good chance in that particular race in the absence of Vautour. The reality is that nobody knows yet the limit of her potential other than the fact that she has constantly hosed up in egg and spoon races &(mostly chases) to date. It looks like they want her to prove to them she is good enough for a crack at the WH and if she wins costly on Saturday I wouldn't be surprised to see her price slashed on the back of it. Mullins for the grand slam??

Forgot to say...

Regardless of opposition or connections, how can a horse switch from hurdles to fences and look better yet get switched back? I would understand if one of these races looked a penalty kick but both are far from it, unless there's a concern around Annie Power making it.......

Fair enough that trigger but even winning well on Saturday wouldn't totally answer the question about her being able to step up to a proper race with a view to Cheltenham against the boys. Thistlecrack has convincingly beat horses around a stone better than what anything in that Saturday mares race could run to in my opinion. It'd still leave her to prove 3m too.

Nailed my colours to the mast here and i'll be taking advantage of the knock on in the market for either hurdle race when she gets confirmed :D

I meant anything bar Mag on Saturday.

The Mullins yard have so many yardsticks that they are able to expertly place their horses in the races that they think gives them the best possible chance of success. On a line from KV and Thistlecrack at Punchestown last year, Mullins will have some idea of the level needed to win a world hurdle. Of course Thistlecrack could well have improved but nonetheless it does give Mullins some sort of gauge and I don't think he will place her in the WH if he didn't think she was capable of course meeting to win the race.

#course meeting=competing

Exactly Trigger. Given the fact that WPM has nothing else for the WH if she turns up she'll be at least half the price i backed her at yesterday. The Willie/Ruby factor is giving bettors some excellent chances to trade out of bets if they want. Unprecedented times.

I think she'll end up in the mares race. We will see.

Enjoyable. I still think the mares race should be her aim, buit's their opinion that matters. She looked good out there.

RR said that if AP gets a run before, she'll go to the WH, and if not, VVM will likely do so.

As a mug punter with a day 1 4fold, I hope that AP goes to the mares

Had taken the 10/1 for world hurdle last week so given ricci comment have taken the 6/1 Annie power as insurance.

Both non runner no bet.

Also think 10/1 Nicholls canyon for world hurdle with non runner no bet worth a punt as if he gets stuffed tomorrow he may change target.

VVM was visually impressive,.....what does anyone think about the comment made by its owner that the 2nd was rated 130? The likes of Thistlecrack, Camping Ground and Cole Harden are all in the 160/170 mark.

I think the second just ran the race of its life - there were higher rated horses in behind after all (Aurore D'est 144 & Desert Queen 148 etc.) Unlikely that they all under performed. The thing with VVM (as it was before this race) is the untapped potential angle. She has always done enough to beat whatever is put in front of her. The time was decent and she had an easy race considering the ground. The ideal prep given that many of the other WH protagonists could well have a hard slog in the Cleeve next week.

Annie Power for the World Hurdle and VVM for the Mares? Would make sense for Ricci, as this would give him the best choice of winning both but he might end up with neither!

vvm is more bombproof than annie for me in the mares the facts she fit and got her eye in, cant see her getting beat

think both would come up short in the world hurdle thou and think they know it

where does that leave annie thou ? wait for aintree hurdle

Yes - she would be a certainty in the Mares but the 13-2 on offer from PP seems too good to be true

Aurore D'Estruval ran a stinker. She just doesn't stay. She just about gets 2 and a half in weak company but her trip is 2 miles. Don't think she's showing her true ability at the moment, but in her defence she has been out for a while until recently.

As Ricci said it will hinge on whether Annie has a run, and it's hard to tell who's the best at this stage as we haven't really seen enough of Vroum Vroum Mag, but if they raced and you had a match bet my money would be on Annie Power over whatever distance, providing she had a warm up. If Annie wasn't cursed with injuries and had a good prep there wouldn't be a discussion to have, she'd take Thistlecrack and co all the way and leave Vroum Vroum to waltz home in the Mares. As it is, struggle to see either winning the World Hurdle but VVM is probably the dart to throw at it, just because of Annie's bad prep.

13/2 is big but given that she may not end there that is why.

whats the best NR no bet ?

heard some irishman talking in the bar as ascot today that djackadam could go to the world as ruby wants to ride vautor in the GC

but no one had even thought of that one

He was either very pished on the guiness, or he was trying to lay you a bet.

Djakadam not even entered in WH. Total bollox imo.

They won't price up the mares race as non runner no bet for a while and if they did you probably have Annie power 4/7 and vroum vroum mag 4/6 if they did as they be pricing it up as if only one runs.

The chance of Djakadam - 2nd in 2015 - not running in the GC (all things being equal) but the WH is akin to the Pope is a Muslim.

Unless he falls next week and is supplemented lol! Fickin hope not.

Still think after today that it's most likely Annie goes for mares and vroom the world! Hence why they where a bit pissed off the other higher rated horses never placed today as they ran her over the near 3m and would have gave them more confidence if say desert Queen finished 2nd than jj? So think they have in there minds pretty much Annie 95% mares unless she misses it altogether through injury or unfit.... And I don't mind admitting I seriously hope not as I have a fair few bets with her in doubles and trebles lol

Hope you correct black.

Hope so mate! If we read between the lines as much as we can by stepping her up in trip and class today says they fancy having a crack at the world with vroom and do a Quevega with Annie and run her straight 1st time out in the mares as she should romp it well that's my hope anyway lol

Son was waiting on Annie for the 4 timer last year,but we had done Glens £20 ew each @ 9/2 as thought  if Annie go's the world hurdle you no what I mean,well I hope she gets the chance to redeem herself as she would have been a treat to watch still picture my son's face,was his 1ST visit to Cheltenham and he has great memories even with this result

RR seemed pretty clear, if AP gets a prep she goes WH. Obviously they rate her higher then VVM after yesterdays performance. At her best AP would be in with a great shout in the WH.

I've done savers just in case. GL

Annie Power couldn't win a World Hurdle off a good prep and will only run in it this year if they can get another race into her. Ricci didn't sound confident yesterday. As for VVM, she briefly faltered when Ruby let her down against a 138 rated horse and the appropriately named 40/1 shot Cannon Fodder. Although she won comfortably in the end she'll be exposed in a World Hurdle going in off uncompetitive prep runs and the 7/2 offered by Paddy Power and Sky Bet is the biggest joke so far in a long list of hilarious ante-post prices.

Annie Power couldn't win a World Hurdle off a good prep and will only run in it this year if they can get another race into her.]

I'm confused Autocue. Are you saying she'll need a good prep and another race on top of that for them to run her in the WH?

As far as her not being able to win the WH off a good prep i'd have to strongly disagree. GL

She runs in the Mares if no prep race.
Decent prep race she runs in WH.
That's my take on it.

Disregard my last post Autocue as i just read the sentence again. Clearly you were referring to the time she was beaten in a WH off a good prep. I'm a bit slow today. GL

Yeah, that's what I meant. At the time I thought More of That must be a world beater but perhaps that was due to me over-rating Annie Power. She hasn't got a great CV for an eight-year-old given all the hype she gets. And don't get me started on Vroum Vroum Mag. Sure Willie's a brilliant trainer but 7/2 for that mare in the World Hurdle (name and shame Sky Bet and Paddy Power) is a ******* farce.

lads, its clear as day annie will run in the mares despite what RR said yest (prep run or not,my guess is not). willie makes the decisions and ricci listens. RR said when interviewed today "i have a soft spot for annie power and want her to win at cheltenham". her best chance is in the mares by some way. that pretty much sways it for me. remember all the times quevega was mentioned for the WH and mullins said (and will still say) its hard to win any race at cheltenham so you go where you have the best chance. vroum vroum!!

Annie Power is the proven WH horse. Take out MOT and she'd have won 5 lengths. I think they should try running her soon, then go over 3m. Better chance of winning both races. If all went to plan they could send her chasing next season, or even at the end of the season.

This should be an easy decision for Mullins to make as to which horse goes in which race. From their homework, Mullins will have a fair idea which horse is best placed to merit a tilt at the world hurdle. I suspect it will be VVM myself, the limit of this horses potential is still mere speculation and it still could be anything as it has not yet raced in public against horses at the top level. Ricci has already stated that he wants AP to win a Cheltenham race and I'd guess that she is earmarked for the mares race, all things being equal.

WPM could easily win the Mares with either AP or VVM. If he wants to win the WH as well then there is only one option i.e. AP with a prep. imo

Kimble - The Quevega situation was totally different as WPM didn't have another wonder mare to step in if he tried her in the WH. By the time AP came along that ship had already sailed. GL

I can see AP running in the mares race and VVM skipping Cheltenham.

Yes and aim her at a little pot in somewhere like Kilbeggan !!!!

Not sure if connections can be any clearer.
Get a run into AP she could go for WH., with VVM going for mares
Don't get a run into AP, she goes for mares and VVM goes for WH.

i for one, through years of experience, never trust what owners and trainers say. its what they do that counts. Annie power will def be in the mares, they tried world hurdle and that didnt work so they wont risk it again. VVM to win new egg and spoon race at chelt (nap).

VVM to win new egg and spoon race at chelt (nap).

FYI VVM is not a novice so can't run in it.

So never trust trainers, owners or KIMBLE

you obv dont get sarcasm

i meant an actual egg and spoon race not the mares novice

Obviously not, apologies

A horse beating other horses short of the required class doesn't worry me in the least if I think the horse has done it in a way which suggests he can bridge the gap. More Of That being a prime example when he won the World Hurdle after a couple of low key races. For me the jury is out on VVM but More Of That could be got at double figures. Quite where Ladbrokes get 3-1 for VVM for a performance which didn't visually impress me as much as MOT is beyond me.

Walsh questions Vroum credentials.
The jockey told Racing UK: "She's a straight-forward ride and has a great temperament. Jennies Jewel ran a blinder in second but she's a 135-138 mare and if you add on what you think Vroum Vroum Mag had left that makes her sort of 150 or there or thereabouts. In terms of where you go next, the Mares' Hurdle or the World Hurdle, would a rating of around 150 be good enough to win either of those races?"

On the basis that we all know VVM would pish in the Mare's Hurdle, I think you can take Ruby's comments with a pinch of salt. His answer was a response to the bookies taking cover with their less than generous prices. Annie Power is a great horse and there are some in the stable who think this one is better - of course the bookies are not going to take a chance, particularly in view of the many Mullins favs this year. What prices would you lay for a horse with so much untapped potential? Fact is - nothing has got anywhere near her yet, regardless of what she has actually beaten. Until she is beaten they will be keeping her well onside.

I'd rather take your thoughts with a pinch of salt than Ruby's. Even then I'd rather go with my own judgement than try to second guess a trainer. AP for the mares race, VVM to skip Cheltenham imo.

If she skips Cheltenham for a second year running then clearly they think she is not good enough at the top level. I thought she would have been ideal for the Ryanair at the start of the season but for some reason they diverted her back to hurdles presumably with some defined target in mind. If they skip Cheltenham altogether now and stick to more egg and sppon races it will smack of cowardice.

"I thought she would have been ideal for the Ryanair at the start of the season but for some reason they diverted her back to hurdle presumably with some defined target in mind."

Could it be in case AP does not make the mare's race or Cheltenham?; VVM could have been entered for this weekend Cleeve's Hurdle instead of the race she won, if so, her true merits will be known.

If this is another very good horse of Mullins' they play about with they deserve to be horse whipped.

I don't think a criticism of Mullins is the right form on here eeternal.
You may need to don a crash helmet!!

Nothing wrong with criticism but horse whippings a bit strong! Attach WM to the lie detector and horse whip him

I've got thick skin.

My personal view is that people within racing should accept that they have a duty to the sport to create the memories that are passed down through the generations and which bring future generations into the sport. We seem to be fighting a losing battle on several fronts and our best chance of arresting the problems is through the players, ie the horses. Who knows, my greatest memory of Kauto, Denman and Long Run charging down the hill could have been replaced by UDS, Annie and Hurricane leaping the final flight in unison. Nobody knows because we never got the chance to see it. Yet to me there was no logical reason why not especially with UDS.

Yeh I know mate.
Frustrating what's been happening recently,but going forward let's hope we start to get more of the best horses facing each other during the season.
AP and VVM would liven up the mares hurdle for sure.
Would be nice to actually look forward to the race!!

Indeed!

Please trainers/owners/race officials, could we as racegoers have competitive Championship races at the Cheltenham Festival whenever possible?

I believe Mullins knows exactly where 95% of his horses are going, why this can't become public knowledge until the week before or day before races I don't understand.

Vroum Vroum Mag and Annie Power will be split between the Mares and the Stayers if both are fit and healthy - that's what Ricci said. It will come down to how well they think Annie Power will do. I think they'd like to get her a Festival win so would make sense to take her to the Mares but I think they also think she's a better mare than VVM.

It will be interesting to see what happens.

I was delighted when i heard they were running VVM over hurdles, with a aim to running in the WH, but seriously after seeing her win @ Ascot she doesn't belong anywhere near that lineup. Granted the plan might have also been as a sub for AP in the Mares just in case and rightfully so. With that said if connections are still intent on going to Cheltenham they must be crazy not to put the Ryanair back on their target list given what unfolded yesterday. With the top 3 now looking like real doubtfuls we could be looking at Al Ferof being fav. Of course the real conundrum is where does RTR go.

Added each-way VVM @ 12/1 NRNB

Road to will near certain go for the gold cup if you listen to what the Irish boys say! They say the O'leary boys are all about the gold cup and winning it and will pitch every horse they think has a chance in the race! Normally it would seem that having the dons would be plenty but think they will send roads down the same road! Not my opinion but just what I have heard from a few Irish boys on various podcasts!

I must add I was having  a good look at the Ryanair myself this morning and it looks like it's going to cut up big time with umpteen of the top of the betting going elsewhere and was thinking on a back of valsor lido as think he will be gigginstown horse for there own race!

Regardless of gold cup prestige, somebody will blink at the head of that market knowing it might only need a low 160 rating to win a ryanair this year and it's only RTR that seems the option.

Noel Meade was adamant against it over christmas but more recently said O'leary asked him to enter it in the ryanair. Thought it was interesting, especially after them putting it over 20f last time. I still don't think he stayed that Gold Cup last year. Djakadam made so much ground up on him late on and there's at least 3 who seem to be accepted as better than that this time around.

I'd be surprised if RTR didn't line up ryanair and the 5/1 NRNB is one of the best bets i've seen. I think it's obvious that goes off around 6/4 or you get your money back. Vautour wont line up and even if he does it will scare Giggi off with rtr going gold cup.

Bet365 have a market without vatour which is a good indicator of the market on the day. RTR is 5/2 with don cossack 4/1 and smad place 3/1. King has confirmed SP for GC and Don Cossack is going there too. At rule 4 prices that would make RTR a 13/10 shot or so.

I cannot see a scenario where that 5/1 isn't a refund or massively shorter.

I agree about VVM for Ryanair instead of WH.

You'd think it would make sense for RR to run VVM in the Ryanair, she till needs to improve her rating by a few pounds against some of the others but in this she would swerve Thistlecrack and Annie, can't see that RR has much else for the race either.

"Noel Meade was adamant against it over the Christmas but more recently said O'leary asked him to enter it in the Ryanair."

Not if RTR beats DP in the Irish Gold Cup (if DP turns up) or a match to Vautour (if Vautour turns up); if neither turns up then RTR will be Ryanair bound I'd anticipate/

VVM's price slashed for the Ryanair with the NRNB firms. Connections getting sense?

I think AP will be in the Mares and VVM will be in the stayers, I think that although AP ran a brilliant race against MOT I reckon they think that she didn't stay quite strongly enough, of course  you can't argue she didn't get home, but she certainly wasn't at her very best after the last. They then look at Thistlecrack and see a horse that is going to get the trip strongly so again they may think that AP will once again be vulnerable.

VVM hasn't yet had the chance to show whether or not she's up to WH class, personally I doubt it but you never know and it is a possible.

So basically, either will win the Mares, but whoever runs in the WH would have to stay strongly, AP we know is vulnerable (and again I'm talking strong stayer), but VVM still might.

Willie now considering the Ryanair for VVM.. Hopefully he sees this as a more winnable race as she aint getting anywhere near Thistlecrack.

If so, thank goodness WPM is not in Athletics and dealing with human beings!

Well he's not

Send Vroum Vroum Mag for Ryanair and Nicholls Canyon to World Hurdle.

I, for one, would be very happy with VVM to Ryanair decision. I have a x 4 EW Ante Post Acca I'd written off consisting of Min (Supreme) @10/1, VVM (Ryanair) @14/1, Martello Tower (World Hurdle) @ 20/1 & Vautour (GC) @ 4/1. Martello Tower not looking great but at least I would get a run for my money. C'mon Willie make the sensible decision. VVM can't beat Thistlecrack.

VROUM VROUM MAG could still tackle the Ryanair Chase at the Cheltenham Festival, as Willie Mullins confirmed the race was a "possibility" for the exciting mare.

RELATED LINKS

Ryanair card 

With Vautour and Smad Place, the market leaders for the Ryanair, gunning for Timico Cheltenham Gold Cup glory, a hole has emerged at the head of the ante-post list and it is not out of the question Vroum Vroum Mag could fill it.

Discussing some of his runners for Cheltenham, Mullins said on Monday: "Vautour is a Gold Cup runner I'm sure, though I see he is favourite for both the Gold Cup and the Ryanair. 

"Vroum Vroum Mag is a possibility for the Ryanair. Mozoltov ran well on Sunday and might run in it too.

"Champagne Fever won't make the Ryanair and Felix Yonger might run in the Champion Chase. Valseur Lido might go to the Gold Cup."

So lots of mights,possibilities and not out of the questions!!
There was one won't though.

i can see the headlines - 'leading trainer confirmed festival target weeks in advance' - ........ friends and family were quick to allay any fears about same said trainers well being, explaining it was a one off and even the greatest slip up from time to time.

Valseur Lido (VL), a possible for the CGC? I think WPM is taking the mickey; I'd rather save the horse for Aintree than run it in a race where the owner will have at least two principal contenders for the race; if for whatever reason/s DC and RTR cannot run in the CGC then NMH will step in, I'm almost 100% certain of that.

Valseur Lido running in the CGC 2016? As much chance as Camping Ground winning the WH against Thistlecrack on soft/heavy ground.

Very likely just pissed away £20 but just had a saver on nicholls canyon at 90.0 for the world hurdle. I really don't think he's going there but if  and that's a big IF vroum vroum goes ryan air for wich I'm on at 62.0 that leaves nichols canyon and renetti as his only entries for the world hurdle.
We all know annie goes mares

I just don't get the constant flip flopping of VVM preparations. One minute chasing, next minute hurdling and now it sounds as though they have left the door open to return to chasing a few weeks before the festival. I actually think the Ryanair was the right race for her from the start but how eventually arrive at this decision is mystifying and for a big stable it makes it look as though they are simply making it up as they go along with her. Or are they simply running scared of Thistlecrack since they think she is not good enough to win the World Hurdle and so sent her to the softer option of the Ryanair?

Pretty obvious what happened here. Rich wad at cheltenham sat and I got a feeling he was asbkmpressed as I was with Thistlecrack

Thistlecrack and aim to win as many races at the Festival as possible.

I think it is a travesty if Nichols Canyon is not allowed to run in the CH after inflicting the 1st defeat to Faugheen - the poor horse was 'overrun' by WPM - I find it difficult to believe I actually mean it.

I still think canyon will run in the champion.

J think nicholls canyon will run on champion I'm on him big ew at 20s. Just think at the price it's the right time to have a saver

Hope so Scooby not many dangers to Fav if ignoring last run.

Had a 750/1 treble trying to second guess Mullins after Vautour in the KG. Vautour (Gold Cup), Limini (Mares novice) & VMM (Ryan Air). Had written this off completely, but now old Willie is playing games with me. Why Willie, why!?!

Nice one jb23. I did the 3 RR mares for fun in every possible combination so all i was hoping was to get a run too. GL

You too! No doubt, she run in the World now i've got excited ha!