2016 gold cup you decide

Nothing, the irish ones just beat each other up all winter long on bad ground and turn up a Cheltenham in what ever race and the market usually speaks on the day.

Reckon Cue Card and Don Cossack was watching today with both eyes wide open and getting ever so slightly excited

My heads hurting I need a rest

Just took abit of 20/1 NRNB on Valseur Lido.  Whatever race he goes for, its not ideal going to the festival after a fall, but he absolutely tanked round.  Always thought he had a big run in him, and he's come on a huge amount from the King Geroge.

Looks an all out 3 miler to me.

Road to Riches was a bit disappointing, hitting a few fences.  He will come on a lot for the run, and better ground.  I still think he can place in a Gold Cup, but I can't see him winning it.

RTR drifted to 17 on here last night for the Ryanair and topped up the 12's I'd already taken.  If he does go the Gold Cup I'm screwed

Although I didn't realise VL fell at the last in the King George, I just assumed he finished a remote 7th or 8th. Not ideal going into a G1 Cheltenhm race with UF next to your name

couldn't be sure he would have won anyway , carlingford was finishing like a train !

What do we make of the ride by Cooper? Thought he would have been better off laying further back myself the way OHO went off!!and the way he kept pushing him forward may well have resulted in his pretty tame finish. Winner came from way back,VL held up off the pace and was finishing very well until the mishap.
Still not given up hope of a decent performance if he gets nice ground.

road to riches was ridden like today was the day,will struggle to get over such a hard race in time for any race at cheltenham

Yeah Foyles, it would have been close, but I defintiely think VL is the one to take out of the race.  Carlingford Lough is a National type, who would have relished the stamina test.

I was surprised with the ride on RTR too.  On very soft ground in his first run since November, I didn't think he needed to press on with him from the go, because it was obvious he was going to get tired at the end.

Much better judged from Ruby, who put VL in the right place at the right time.

I've read a lot of negative stuff re Cooper on this forum,and not got involved as I don't really like to have a pop at jockeys,but I am a bit bemused with his ride today to be honest.

valseur lido is my cliff horse and i still believe but my bank manager begs to differ .

he ran one bad race last year and was generally a horse who travelled well and jumped well. imo he's a stayer (two gr 1s last year over 3m) and i hope they go gold cup but you never know with gigginstown.

i havent seen the fall at kempton but he wasnt running well anyway that day. today we dont know what would have been as cl was staying on really well.

as pointed out above uf dont look great prior to the big day.

i backed ages ago for ryan air and gc but really hope he's gc bound.

yeh agree wellcheif valseur more unexposed and it was probably carlinfords target today ,cracking price for last years winner ,hindsight and all that !

But will RTR go GC after today? Gigginstown will want a horse with a decent chance of winning their own race and it could boil down to a decision between RTR and VL and you'd have to say that VL probably cemented his GC spot after today leaving RTR to possibly to defect to Ryanair.

Road To Riches never traveled today in my opinion. He lost ground to On His Own at numerous fences. Cooper was only riding him to hold his position.

He might improve for better ground but it was poor effort all the same and add to that, he had a grueling enough race. Valseur Lido has overtaken him in the Giggy pecking order. I reckon one of those two will probably head for the Ryanair.

Dont think any from todays tough race will be winning Gold Cup, surprise surprise.

Carlingford would have won anyway. Absolutely hammered home, and VL wasn't finding that kind of acceleration instantly.

It's very unlikely RTR will head to the CGC after today's performance; the soft/heavy going stretched his stamina to the limit and being up with the pace from the off did not help either; the run of VL gave the KG form a boost but will VL go for the Ryanair along with RTR? I'd think so after today, the CGC is too hot a race for both VL and RTR I'd think.

Its no surprise really is it, the King George is a key trial. I expect like others the form will look rather solid after the Gold Cup.

B2W, I think it's difficult to say who would have won if Valseur Lido would have stood up.

I have no idea what the sectional times were, but I don't think Carlingford Lough accelerated passed them, he simply stayed on past knackered horses who were slowing with every stride.  Valseur Lido was still full of running, who showed no signs of stopping, so I think Carlingford's burst at the finish, is a bit exaggerated by the fact RTR was almost going backwards.

Based on that run, plus his run at Punchestown at the back end of last year, Valseur Lido is definitely a 3 miler.

I had a go at Don Cossack for falling in the King George though, so I can't have double standards about Valseur.  At the end of the day, it doesn't matter how well you travel or if you're on top, if you fall or unseat you don't deserve to win.

That's the beauty of the game chief. As I said on another thread I would have bet a finger the winner would have won anyway. Not an essential finger mind.

The way he was eating up the ground to me was impossible to resist, yes Ruby had not asked the question but they had went too quick and CL came from a mile back and absolutely pinged the last. Momentum is everything at the end of a race like that and it cannot just be switched on.

Would be surprised if any of the igc horses turned up to the cgc now. Clearly KG for red hot.

Also not great for DP supporters given relative performances of FL and Foxr.

I think they may have suffered for trying to win the Lexus.
Would be careful re DP and yesterday's race imo.

If you did use them,then RTR comes out a fair bit better than DP.
But of course CL was well beat in the Lexus!!

Don't know why anyone would try to assess the Lexus and yesterday's Irish Hennessy form too deeply in context to next month's Gold Cup. Did Road To Riches give his true running? I doubt it, he may still go for the Ryanair yet anyway. Foxrock and First Lieutenant were well beat yesterday and gave Don Poli a run for his money in the Lexus, whilst Carlingford Lough was well beat in the Lexus and hosed up yesterday, so the form totally contradicts itself and is a complete mess.

This heavy ground Irish form in the winter is very suspect in my view. Rather than reading too much into all of this sort of form I'll guarantee the form that prevails at the festival is the form of races run on better ground and the previous festival form (providing we get decent ground at Cheltenham of course). I'm not talking about the Gold Cup specifically just the festival in general. It always proves to be right every year.

Without wanting to change subject from the Gold Cup, but as others have pointed out in another thread, Tombstone could be a good example of this. A cracking example at a nice price at the festival last year was Uxizandre. Battered in heavy winter ground but then with his proven Cheltenham and good ground form, puts in the performance of his life when it mattered most, of course I'd think anyone on here would know this, but sometimes some do read too deep into some of these races.

spot of sf there are going to be some nice priced winners at cheltenham this year if the going is different to what it has been over the winter

Add in the suicidal pace they went yesterday and the form is worthless.

The King George holds the key. Cue Card, Vautour, or Don Cossack.

Hopefully in that order

Wouldn't the strong pace yesterday help sort out the weak from the strong?  If it had been a sedate crawl, then I would call the form pretty worthless.

Regardless of who beat who by what lengths (because I agree very heavy ground form can be suspect), but in the two big trials, the two horses too take out of them were Don Poli and Valseur Lido, re Gold Cup chances - the cream rose to the top despite adverse conditions (I know VL fell by the way, but I still think he was the one to take out of it)

Also, the Don Cossack fans who pin their hopes on end of season Punchestown form, Valseur Lido smashed Don Poli at the same fixture, so that has to come into the equation.

DC beat Djakadam 7l who in turn finished over 6 lengths further ahead than he did at CGC 2015 over RTR (ground at Punchestown and exertion at the CGC 2015 told their toll), but DC was held up unlike yesterday where RTR was prominent throughout with the front runner On His Own - those at the front just went too fast, and CL would have won, in my opinion, even if VL had not fallen.

FYI, where I put "in the two big trials", I meant in Ireland by the way; not the KG or Betfair etc

After the Lord Mayor's show form is not really a big pointer either. I do think Don Cossack has a chance but think it is unlikely he will put it together. Even if he does it proably won't be enough imo.

The last couple of weeks has seen me sour on the chances of Djakadam and Road To Riches. This conveniently fits in with my agenda for supporting the horse in a million, destiny awaits!

I think the key is the ground, if its good to soft or better Vautour wins, KG form stacking up very well...

spring ground
Cheltenham
and being fully wound up should mean a good 5-10lbs improvement for me.

watch the king George back and ruby lets him roll from about 1.5 miles out, bit more patience on better ground and he'll stay and win.

I personally think that race yesterday
will put RTR spot on for Cheltenham,1st
run for a while.
  GL ALL

very hard race 5 weeks out might take its toll, hope not.

Yesterday's race would have convinced owner and trainer RTR is no top class over 26f good ground or worse especially with proven stayers like DC, Dp and Djakadam; RTR is Ryanair bound, if sound, or Aintree I'd imagine.

only beat just over 3L in last years GC.
Winner Coneygree a class horse,imo.
If RTR is'nt a Gold Cup runner I'd be
very surprised.

Of course he's a Gold Cup horse,he proved it last year........beyond doubt.

People saying Irish and winter ground form is worthless but that's exactly what the GC was run on last year,should the form of that race be ignored?

Only races to concentrate on are KG and Lexus,winners of these races races in any year should be taken very seriously esp winners that love Cheltenham.The Gold Cup winner ran in one of those and even tho i can't have Cue Card him and Don Poli should be 1st and 2nd in the betting.

Stats wise that's probably true Jasey, but you'd have to think would Don Cossack, Vautour or Djakadam won that Lexus if they faced the same field?  The answer is probably yes, judging on First Lieutenant coming second.

So just because Don Poli won it shouldn't automatically put him second in the betting because he won a key trial, when any of the main protagonists would probably have won it as well, but by further.

I would imagine the best Irish GC horses normally run in Lexus the best Brits in the KG.
Now though with connections wanting to keep a lot of horses apart we may see less winners of these races winning the Gold Cup?

By the way Jasey, it seems a fair few are ignoring the Gold Cup form......not many on here seem to be fancying Djak or RTR.

I ain't ignoring RTR I just don't know where he will run and think after starting the season well his season has been interrupted,pretty sure he would have defended his Lexus if he was fit.

yeh, fair point.
Ive been banging his drum, but I am struggling to see how he can get there at the same level as he was last year.

My original plan to wait until the day to back Cue Card might need rethinking I feel.

There are a few factors that will see him possibly being well backed. Tizzard looks likely to win the big race the day before, where he will of course be asked about is horse going for the million the next day.... and going for that million will itself attract support.

Not to mention having this season's best form.

7/1 might have to be taken, there will no doubt be some NRs to come.

If you back with 365, they are NRNB and B.O.G, so if he does drift, you'll get the SP anyway.

I think he'll go off shorter than 7's as well though - there will be a lot of sentimental money for him too; re the old boy agains the up and coming ones, going for the million bonus, his festival record and he's everyone's favourite or second favourite horse

The King George is such a key trial for the CGC and this year is no different. For me Vautour and Cue Card will be there at the business end and the younger horse looks the one to be on.

He jumped superbly at the festival last year and gets in a lovely rhythm. Not worried about the distance, his sire has produced top 3 milers and his dam sire produced the doughty stayer Dom Samuorai. The form of the King George is rock solid and if its decent going on Gold Cup day i dont think the others will get to him

Djak was finally unstitched and back into proper training. Vautour no prep run.

WPM training facilities are a shambles would definitely worry about no prep

Vautour could line up at Newbury or Gowran this weekend. RR believes he could benefit from a prep run but Mullins unsure in Daily Mail interview. Tuesday workout will decide

I'd heard no prep for Vautour too Tim. I think that'll mean he is nailed on to run in the Gold Cup.

Yea Djak didn't provided any sort of a clue in his last race so its the logical conclusion for Mullins, I can't see them changing the plans now so I expect them both RR's to turn up in the GC and maybe send VVM for the Ryanair.

If the ground did end up Soft/Heavy then plans for Vautour could change.  Doubt Vautour over 3m2f on very soft would get home.  However, with likely decent ground then it looks like the Gold Cup.

Vautour not entered at either Gowran or Newbury this weekend

agree @shockster, ground is a major factor where Vautour ends.

https://amp.twimg.com/v/2fa2eb02-2e08-4e13-9234-1cb05b06f14d

Good little Paul Kealy v Graham Rodway Don Poli debate on RP's twitter feed.  Sounds a lot like this thread, there is no grey area with Don Poli; a lot think he's a cert and some just cannot have him at all.

He divides opinion anyway

I do not wish to find out at Cheltenham with Don Poli at 6/1!

Well I think Don Poli gets a lot of unfair stick, he's not flashy but he's a battler. The notion he's slow??? He won the Martin Pipe, yes he was well handicapped but you can't win a festival handicap hurdle over 2.5m on good ground by being slow. The form of his Sun Alliance and Lexus isn't the greatest but this horse does enough no more. The softer the ground the better as some of his GC rivals won't like it and I'd have him all day over Don Cossack, please Cooper ride the Cossack

Paul Kealy made me laugh the other week Reve De Sivola couldn't get beat over fences at Haydockdon't get me wrong he's not the worst but sometimes he's very dismissive of other people.

Must admit I am starting to come round to DP.
Think more and more this is going to be a real stayers race,well to be fair it normally is.

Imagine this scenario: the ground is soft at Cheltenham and Vautour has been rerouted to the Ryanair; Bryan Cooper has been instructed by Gigginstown to ride Don Poli, and RW offered the ride on Don Cossack (DC) and chose it over Djakadam.

WPM is happy, RR is happy, RW is happy, and supporters of DC is very happy too - is it not good? Everyone is happy, except the bookies perhaps!

impossible can I ask, why would RR and WPM be happy if RW choose DC over Djakadam??????????????

This way WPM, RR and RW will be assured of a winner at least, and RW possibly two - RW is not contracted to ride RR's horses I believe!

I never said RW was RR contracted rider but he is WPM stable jockey so I can't see WPM wanting RW getting off his horse to ride Gordon Elliots??? Unless I'm missing something???

FFS imp get off the sup

Gigginstown's gentle persuasion always works given their might at WPM's stable; I think RW will choose DC over Djakadam given his recent fall. Maybe Djakadam will be saved for Aintree instead.

FFS Mrs.Impossible take that drink of off him and put him to bed and get him of thr horses got lent

impossible I think you should go to the bookies and ask for a price

The & for

That's an original one impossible. I get how Don Cossack fans would be happy if Ruby rode him, but why would everyone else be happy in that scenario? Ricci and Mullins would be pretty peeved.

I'll have some of whatever your smoking impossible!

Impossible is aptly named! WPM and RR will be doubly represented in the Gold Cup, by the fav and another trading at single figures and Ruby is riding neither!

I think his username may have come from comments on his school report? impossible to teach

Racing manager Eddie O'Leary insists no decisions will be made until Festival week on which horses represent Gigginstown House Stud in the Timico Cheltenham Gold Cup.
It is 10 years since Ryanair supremo Michael O'Leary's racing empire claimed Gold Cup glory with War Of Attrition, but the team have every chance of repeating the feat next month after assembling a formidable hand of staying chasers that includes Gordon Elliott's ante-post favourite Don Cossack and the Willie Mullins-trained Don Poli.

The Gigginstown-owned Road To Riches, trained by Noel Meade, was third in the blue riband last March but was a beaten favourite in Saturday's Irish Gold Cup at Leopardstown, leading to suggestions he could be rerouted to the shorter Ryanair Chase - a race the sponsors have not yet won.

Eddie O'Leary says talk of firming up Festival plans is premature, however, and is prepared to forgive Road To Riches his defeat in testing conditions.

He said: "The ground was brutal in Leopardstown and that was never going to suit him, so we're not despondent.

"Like all of them, it will be between the Gold Cup and the Ryanair and we'll decide during the week of the race. It will depend on the health of the two Dons (Don Cossack and Don Poli) and the ground."

O'Leary does not subscribe to a theory put forward by some that Gigginstown's retained rider Bryan Cooper rode too forceful a race aboard Meade's stable star.

He said: "Bryan rode him as he saw fit and that's grand for us. He rode him the same way at Cheltenham last year and he finished third in the Gold Cup. It's just a ground issue."

Another Gigginstown runner in contention for the same Festival races is Valseur Lido, who may well have won the Irish Gold Cup but for making a mess of the final fence and unseating Ruby Walsh.

His apparent emergence as a major force further muddies the waters for Cooper, who will have some tough choices to make.

O'Leary said: " Whether Valseur Lido runs in the Gold Cup or the Ryanair we'll wait and see, but he was running a super race and he's thrown his hat into the ring.

"Bryan will ride whichever horse he feels has the best chance in both races."
.
.

after last years race,RTR should run
in the Gold Cup,should'nt he?
Btn just over 3L with the winner
out for the season.

And on soft ground only losing second in the last fifty yards. Couldn't back him now but it certainly wouldn't surprise me to see him go close.

Unless its a bog RTR should defy run in the Gold Cup IMO.

highly doubt he'll be in the GC, they need a Ryanair horse. Mullins will push Lido for GC and who are they left with for the Ryanair? Only RTR unfortunately.

Which is some form of madness. Either the horse is fit to run at Cheltenham or he isn't. If he is he is their only horse with experience of the race and ran damned close last year on softer ground than ideal. Like I say I couldn't back him ut it wouldn't be any kind of surprise to see the horse go close.

RTR should definitely be in the Gold Cup imo. The ground went against him last year and he still ran a cracker. The ground was even more against him at the weekend and he was given a silly ride, so I don't think it's fair to right him off for that run. I would be worried how much that will have taken out of him however, given the way the race panned out.

if connections seriously think that running him last weekend in that ground and that aggressively (following  minor blip) was anywhere close to the ideal prep for a gc in march they would have to be crazy - i am a big fan of the horse and have financial interest as well but imo there is no chance in hell they would have done this if they didnt have the two dons - one of the best definitions i have heard of integrity is consistency of actions and words - they talk a good game when it comes to rtr and winning the cgc but their actions say otherwise imo - rtr's chance in cgc was sacrificed in favour of winning the igc imo as they think they have two better for cheltenham.

personally i would like nothing more than for him to bounce back in march but think he is really up against it now

Another angle I'm not sure has been discussed in relation to the horse is that with being targeted at the Galway Plate in 2014 the horse basically went from the Autumn of 2013 and had a run in to last years Gold Cup without a genuine break of three or four months as most horses get during the summer months. He got that last summer but this decision to target the IGC in that ground may have greatly hindered his chance.

Agreed, someone posted a list either earlier on this thread or one of the innumerable other Gold Cup threads about the record of IGC horses in the CGC.
I knew it was a thing, intuitively a hard race over 3m on soft or worse this close to the Festival can't be a positive, but the actual list was pretty damning for RTR and the others chances.

agree - and how about this for irony - the owners already had a horse in the race that as it turned out had a better chance in the conditions to win the race so for me they couldnt have got it more wrong if they tried - i would like to know what was going through the trainers mind as they were lining up at the start of the igc - at that point he would have known how the track was riding and he would have known that not only had conditions cast a serious doubt over him winning that race but also of him leaving his cgc race behind too. Also probably knows that whatever he is thinking he has to put up and shut up.

Horses taken out of the Gold Cup at latest forfeight stage.


Al Ferof, First Lieutenant, Road To Riches, Saphir Du Rheu, Wounded Warrior, Seeyouatmidnight, Virak, Lord Windermere

Looks like RTR still in.

And so he should be.
Would be stupid to take him out this early.

Corrected Defectors.  Apologies for first post but copied from Twitter.

Al Ferof, First Lieutenant, Lord Windermere, W Warrior, Seeyouatmidnight, Virak, No More Heroes, Roi Du Mee.

sort it out shock,poor old cat nearly got a good kicking then!!

Haha, read your post and thought WTF.  So went back and saw the corrected version.  No surprises anyway.

The Tizzard string in fine fettle....... destiny awaits!

lay that til the cow's come then

for a place

Why all this constant talk about road to riches. Couldn't win it last year. Horses only ever win it in their first try at the race and yet all I hear about and read about the gold cup involves rtr?? Am I missing something ? Surely there are several more likely winners than this one.

Feb 17, 2016 -- 11:48AM, shockster wrote:

Horses taken out of the Gold Cup at latest forfeight stage. Al Ferof, First Lieutenant, Road To Riches, Saphir Du Rheu, Wounded Warrior, Seeyouatmidnight, Virak, Lord Windermere

just read this and was scrambling to odds checker see where was the best place for ryanair lol

Don't know how much you can take from those Kemption gallops but Cue Card looked in tremendous nick.  Brennan had a big smile on his face coming back in which is always a good sign.

Aux Ptits Soins seemed to have the measure of Saphir du Rheu.

don cossack anyone else seen davy russel is riding it in some work at  punch!!?? Great news NO COOPER!!

Hope it is a done deal with the pilot for DC in the GC, and the backing from DC's trainer speaks volume to me. No offence BC,DC is not a good ride for you I'm afraid.

MarkBradstockRacing ‏@BradstockRacing 2m2 minutes ago

Updates from the yard. Coneygree is recovering at a flying pace enjoying sara riding him out again. #watchthisspace

Mark Bradstock added that Coneygree still wouldn't race again this season.

Is it too late to change my mind to Don Cossack.

New fan club members are always welcome.

Ok can I have 9/4

Dec 7, 2015 -- 12:40AM, timtin wrote:

I still think it would be nice to have Vautour in the Ryanair and give that race a high class renewal it deserves. As for his target, it was only after this years festival that Mullins said that the GC would naturally be the aim, in 2014 Vautour was thought to remain hurdling up until Punchestown.my tricast:1. Don Cossack2. Djakadam3. Coneygree

The tricast rolls on for 2017 as I didn't knew Coneygree will be out of this one