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stevo1
12 Mar 15 14:38
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Date Joined: 21 Oct 06
| Topic/replies: 824 | Blogger: stevo1's blog
What a performance!! Brillant
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Report Ekbalco January 7, 2016 6:54 PM GMT
Mullers might do a Dickers.
Report Can't Catch Me January 7, 2016 6:57 PM GMT
Yeah I know that Ekbalco. Just responding to jasey saying RR will want two darts. I think it needs considering that would mean WPM uses all three of his darts for one race. For a man clearly obsessed with Cheltenham winners, I would be surprised.
Report Can't Catch Me January 7, 2016 7:01 PM GMT
I honestly don't think RR cares. He was happy for Vautour to win a JLT last year. I think they just want the horse to win at Chelts myself. Obviously if the GC was without doubt his optimum race, then brilliant. But it looks hard to be sure of that right now.

I think the Imperial Commander route might make perfect sense to them.

Ultimately I think it will all hinge on Djakadam. If he is fit and bouncing that week, Vautour will go for the Ryanair. If Djakadam isn't 100% and Ruby doesn't fancy riding him, I think they will give Vautour his chance.
Report CheltenhamRoar January 7, 2016 8:08 PM GMT
Funny how no one seems to be giving road to riches much of a chance, wherever djakadam is rtr will be right there,
If Mullins trained him he'd be half his current odds. Ran a fine race last season when the ground had just went against him.
Report buddeliea January 7, 2016 9:16 PM GMT
I give him a big chance......if he runs.
Backed him before start of the season,odds were too big,still are in my view.

I do have this nagging feeling they are thinking about the Ryanair though.
Bloody hope not,I really fancy him on decent ground if he turns up in the form of last March.
Report SEATHESTARS....NO1 January 7, 2016 11:01 PM GMT
Me 2 budd, i backed him in last years at 20/1 and feel he is being overlooked for this one. But i have a nagging doubt, and it's the record of horses that have been beaten in previous gold cups re-trying. Am sure its a bad one is it not? Forgive me if im wrong, if i am, i will back it tomorrow Crazy
Report buddeliea January 8, 2016 7:09 AM GMT
Well it is a fairly bad stat,but personally it don't bother me.
I look at it as that he's ran the course and distance and ran bloody well on ground not in his favour.
Their are a fair few that have not at much shorter prices.
He's having a fairly easy time of it,just the one run over a lesser distance.
Looks like he could have one more and then March,and let's hope it's the Gold Cup mate.
Report Jb23 January 8, 2016 9:35 AM GMT
Just noticed that R2R is a lesser price in the Ryan Air. With the 2 Dons in the Gold Cup, Gigginstown look to have a good hand in that. I can't see an obvious Gtown runner in the Ryan Air asides Roads to Riches & First Lieutenant who's now looks to exposed for any of the handicaps (13lb hike for the Lexus!!!). I'd personally expect O'Leary to want a good hand in his own race so could easily see R2R & FL both lining up in that.

Theres no way they could have Don x2, FL & R2R in the gold cup is there.......!?!
Report jasey January 8, 2016 10:33 AM GMT
I backed R2R last year and think the conditions spoiled his chance but he still ran a cracker.The problem i see is that DP and DC are only going to run in one race,leaving one other top draw 3 miler the unfashionable R2R.He is the best horse they have for the Ryanair.
Report impossible123 January 8, 2016 2:57 PM GMT
With the ammunition that Gigginstown has for the Gold Cup Road To Riches will most likely run in the Ryanair in my opinion: Road will be a warm order too even with the participation of Vautour (about 5/2 without, and most likely be 'fav'); in my opinion Road To Riches has a better chance of winning the Ryanair than the Gold Cup.

If UDS, for one reason or another, is unable to run in the Champion Chase Vautour will be rerouted there instead - I'm fairly confident that this will be the case.
Report TimmyRiggins January 8, 2016 3:11 PM GMT
Think it was on TFF podcast, I heard that one of the O'Leary brothers had said, if they have 6 horses for the GC, they will all run in the GC, and they won't be looking to separate them.
Report impossible123 January 8, 2016 3:24 PM GMT
TimmyRiggins,

If only!

If so, Road To Riches would have run in the Lexus and/or the King George, prep races for the GC; Road To Riches might have given Vautour and Cue Card a proper race with its front running style and brilliant jumping in the King George instead of missing out on the valuable price money and 'exercise' whilst staying in the barn!

I'd like to see the 'jockey' of Don Cossack to allow the horse plenty of view of the fences and not get boxed in the GC - it is unnecessary and the horse jumps better too.
Report TimmyRiggins January 8, 2016 3:29 PM GMT
If only what?

You see the 2nd & 3rd colours of Gigginstown a lot more frequently than you see Ricci's.

The horse almost won the GC last year, on unsuitable ground, and from what they were saying on TFF, there is no reason to think the horse won't be running in the GC again.
Report TimmyRiggins January 8, 2016 3:31 PM GMT
From a purely fiscal point of view, I'd prefer it if the horse were rerouted, but it doesn't look like that is going to be the case.
Report Jb23 January 8, 2016 4:35 PM GMT
On a side note thats the best username I've seen on here! When looking at the gold cup, ask yourself - What would Riggins do?
Report Eeternaloptimist January 8, 2016 4:58 PM GMT
impossible

The trainer was reported as having been off his food just prior to Christmas. Barring that his intended outing was going to be defending his Lexus.
Report duffy January 8, 2016 5:02 PM GMT
what" the trainer was off his food?Wink
Report buddeliea January 8, 2016 5:05 PM GMT
he's entered in the Hennessey,I hope that is his prep for the Gold Cup.
Report Eeternaloptimist January 8, 2016 6:46 PM GMT
English being my fourth language is sometimes a curse Duffy. Laugh
Report TimmyRiggins January 8, 2016 7:04 PM GMT

Jan 8, 2016 -- 10:35AM, Jb23 wrote:


On a side note thats the best username I've seen on here! When looking at the gold cup, ask yourself - What would Riggins do?


Riggins would probably take his cash to the Landing Strip, and invest it there Devil

Report impossible123 January 8, 2016 7:32 PM GMT
"what, the trainer was off his food?"

One or two trainers (on Tele) definitely weighed more than one or two of their charges!
Report Gustavo_1000 January 11, 2016 11:12 AM GMT
This was run on Twitter by @cheltenhamnews

Sunday Poll - Which race should Vautour run in at the Cheltenham Festival?

Champion chase.  19%
Ryanair.                 41%
Gold cup.               40%

Interesting result, I wonder how different the result would be if the question was which race do you think he WILL run in??
Report Jb23 January 11, 2016 1:23 PM GMT

Jan 8, 2016 -- 1:04PM, TimmyRiggins wrote:


Jan  8, 2016 --  4:35PM, Jb23 wrote:On a side note thats the best username I've seen on here! When looking at the gold cup, ask yourself - What would Riggins do?Riggins would probably take his cash to the Landing Strip, and invest it there


Clear eyes, full hearts, can't lose. #Vautour

Report FOYLESWAR January 11, 2016 1:44 PM GMT
for me he should deffo go gold cup (pocket talking -YES) but imo he got the 3m at Kempton well  in the circumstances ,the horse was imo totally unsuited by going right handed and lost ground and energy at fences by edging left and wanting to go  left throughout  look at the replays how his jaw is cocked left through the race,not really markedly so but to me he is not happy going this way round and his jumping was only  adequate not the spectacular display he showed at the festival  ,he wasn't meeting the fences as he did in the jlt at the festival and he has run a massive race in conditions that did not suit imo ............nothing is certain regards staying the gold cup distance but good ground  and going left handed will help also he can be expected to jump better going the right way . his breeding suggests he will get 3m + his dam won races at 13f + on the flat in france . timeform have him on 181P a pound behind cue card and 2pound behind don Cossack ,but this horse has only had a handful of races over fences  and has the scope to rate a good bit higher ...........only my opinion tho!
Report GAZO January 11, 2016 2:44 PM GMT
he just didnt get home and neither will he in the gold cup, he did go slightly left at most fences but coming into the straight his backers were heading to the pay out counter,if it had been a bog you might chance it but the gold cup is run over further,a much stiffer course and is a real slog,its a penalty kick in the ryanair or chance the queen mother
Report impossible123 January 11, 2016 2:48 PM GMT
Any price on Vautour not going for the CGC?
Report FOYLESWAR January 11, 2016 6:33 PM GMT
no dont think so impossible,
Report mayburydrr January 12, 2016 2:08 PM GMT
What would you price Vautour as if he runs in the Ryanair, assuming DC and Cue Card both run in the Gold Cup. I.e, his main competitors are Smad Place, perhaps R2R, Dynaste, Al Ferof, Sound Investment and Valseur Lido??
Report FOYLESWAR January 12, 2016 2:21 PM GMT
he would be very short on the day maybury imo 6/4 ish and it would look a penalty kick , but the gold cup is the big one and mullins and the owner  have had  near misses the last 3 years and will shirley want to hit the target sooner rather than later...............the proof of the pudding will be if connections think he wil stay the gold cup trip well enough, we can speculate but they will have a better idea !
Report SEATHESTARS....NO1 January 12, 2016 2:30 PM GMT
I'm not betting (if i ever do) Vautour until the day where he is sure to get the 'flag' treatment by 1 or 2 bookmakers, ok to ltd stakes but that suits my style. If he runs in the ryanair hes a shoe in and if 6/4 normal price it'll be a max bet against those.

Alas, if Smad Place, perhaps R2R, Dynaste, Al Ferof, Sound Investment and Valseur Lido are his only real opposition in the ryanair, expect his price to be closer to 11/10 and 6/4 perhaps being offered by baldys or billys for 15 minutes in morning to a max of say 50!
Report impossible123 January 12, 2016 2:39 PM GMT
I think Vautour is destined for the CC or Ryanair despite what is being said at the moment by its trainer or jockey even on goodish ground unless DC, DP, Djakadam, Road To Riches, Cue Card, etc, are unable to run; if so, then the likes of No More Heroes and More Of That would take their places.

Just jock off Ruby and replace him with 'shirley' and Vautour will 'hit the target sooner rather than later' and make every post a winning one regardless of distance of race!
Report Mt006 January 12, 2016 8:52 PM GMT
Ryanair if UDS is fit
CC if UDS isn't fit

I think if they were going GC they would have said that straight away after the KG
Report trigger3 January 12, 2016 11:29 PM GMT
Mullins needs a GC to cement his reputation in history as one of the great Anaheim trainers. Ricci will want to do likewise as an owner. The fly in the ointment will be Walsh who will want to ride both Djakadam and Vautour in separate races. Mullins has already indicated that Vautour will probably have another race before Cheltenham. Even though he has indicated that the GC remains his target, I wouldn't be too surprised if he changes tack before. I'd say 75% GC, 24% Ryanair, CC 1%
Report impossible123 January 13, 2016 2:15 PM GMT
Mt006,

I agree with you: WPM would have reiterated the Gold Cup straight away after the KG if so.

Vautour: 50% Ryanair, 40% Champion Chase and 10% Gold Cup I think - the extra 2f and uphill finish is too taxing for him I firmly believe.
Report Mr Eboue January 13, 2016 2:25 PM GMT
Hypothetical situation lads:

Vautour jumps the last at Kempton in better fashion and wins a length from Cue Card.


What price the Gold Cup? I'm guessing 4/1 tops.

I'm still convinced he's a very, very special horse. He loves good ground and Cheltenham. If, and of course its a massive if, they go for the Gold Cup, Walsh won't be making the running a circuit from home.
Report GAZO January 13, 2016 2:32 PM GMT
if he is making the running isnt he going at the speed he wants too
Report FOYLESWAR January 13, 2016 2:48 PM GMT
beking George I was dubious of vutour even tho I had backed him straight after the jlt ,what had me doubting was the form of the horses he had beaten over  fences ,nothing had come out and really boosted the form and I thought he had a mountain to climb in the king George based on that ,so to be beaten a whisker after looking all over the winner everywhere bar the line  against grade 1 horses and being totally unsuited by going right handed was a stonking run imo ,and I would not be surprised if vautour could improve 8-10 pound on that performance given the right conditions i.e , so a 180+ plus run could be immnent ,small problem of which race he goes ,if he were mine then ..gold cup !
Report FOYLESWAR January 13, 2016 2:48 PM GMT
before the king George ^^^^^^
Report impossible123 January 13, 2016 2:59 PM GMT
If the Gold Cup was run at Kempton, yes, Vautour would have an excellent if not a 'fav' chance of winning, but an extra 2f and uphill is an extremely tall order for a horse that was 'caught' by another with dubious stamina; if Don Cossack had stayed up he'd most likely be the winner of that race and probably win by a length or more considering he caught up with Cue Card heading towards the 2nd last fence.
Report Harvester January 13, 2016 3:32 PM GMT
I agree with your analysis foyle... I layed him for KG but am on him 10-1 nrnb for GC and I think he will be in it.
Report FOYLESWAR January 13, 2016 3:39 PM GMT
hope so harvester !good luck
Report FOYLESWAR January 13, 2016 3:41 PM GMT
think he is at least 10lb better at cheltenhm impossible ,and if I am right and he stays then his price is too big .............
Report Mr Eboue January 13, 2016 4:42 PM GMT
If he improves 10b and stays he'll be finishing when the rest are jumping the last!
Report trigger3 January 13, 2016 5:03 PM GMT

Jan 13, 2016 -- 8:15AM, impossible123 wrote:


Mt006,I agree with you: WPM would have reiterated the Gold Cup straight away after the KG if so.Vautour: 50% Ryanair, 40% Champion Chase and 10% Gold Cup I think - the extra 2f and uphill finish is too taxing for him I firmly believe.


I'd love you to be my bookie and I would be lumping on Vautour to run in GC @ 9/1!!

Report buddeliea January 13, 2016 5:15 PM GMT
Pretty dangerous ignoring the Kimg George run,or at least trying to reason it.
Sometimes it's best to believe what your eyes told you.
He would have been 3rd in all probability if DC had not fallen.
Cue cRd faltered at the last as well don't forget.
Vautour had it all his own way up front,traveled well  and had them all in trouble , looked like winning easily.
He patently failed to stay the trip well.
Now he has another 2 furlongs with an uphill finish.
It don't matter how much better left handed etc,he don't stay means he don't win.

Only slight question for me was how fit he was,but the way he travelled and got them all at it tells me he was pretty fit.
Another question in the what race connundrum will probably not be answered till Djakadam runs next.
Should he win well then I would expect connections to split them at the festival,with Vautour in the Ryanair.
And that is one race where he could reach the 180's.
Report SEATHESTARS....NO1 January 13, 2016 5:18 PM GMT
Vautour this, Cue Card that, Don don don, but

I am pretty sweet on O'Faolains Boy @ 33/1 Cool
Report Paterson92 January 13, 2016 5:23 PM GMT
I'm pretty sweet on his trainer ^
Report maelduin January 13, 2016 5:45 PM GMT
It's no secret that Vautour is a hard horse to get fit. In fact Ricci said: "he was only half fit" for his run @ Ascot.

So how fit was he for the KG? To quote Budd i'd say "pretty fit". There are 3 reasons why i say this 1) Only Half fit @ Ascot 2)In his career Vautour has never put in a sparkling performance before March 2) Strong word that he was not even fancied by his connections. The latter of course is pure speculation but i'm a believer.

So did he stay the KG trip? Impossible for me to say given the reasons above. Of course there are the ones that say categorically he didn't but then they must also believe he was at peak fitness. The data tells us he won't reach that till Cheltenham.

Let's hope in runs in the GC now.
Report GAZO January 13, 2016 6:17 PM GMT
looks like they forget to tell ruby that the horse was not ready
Report buddeliea January 13, 2016 6:37 PM GMT
In my view that was a sparkling performance......till the petrol ran out.
Im not sure he could perform like that without being fit .
Will he be fitter in March,could be,but does that mean he stays the extra distance well enough?
Fair point re Ruby's ride,but is that not the way the horse is usually ridden??
Looked to me like they were not bothered about the trip and just wanted him to be ridden normally.that way they find out if he stays,they did find out imo.
To be fair he did nearly win the race so he probably just gets3 miles
The gold cup,is another matter.
Report jasey January 13, 2016 9:05 PM GMT
He is being trained for the Gold Cup so I think zero chance of Champion Chase.Training him for the GC is the opposite of the CC,trying to get him to settle be less exuberant maybe covered up.
Tactics ground and rub of the green is what Vautour needs.I would like to see him over 3 mile before GC but I don't think that will happen.
I think i am right in that War of Attrition had not won at at 3 mile prior to his win so it can be done.
Report Harvester January 13, 2016 10:00 PM GMT
I think he'll progress from kg especially as it was his first 3m trip (and at the very highest level).

.. And I cannot get my head round why everyone says "if DC hadn't fallen..."... Well he did fall and not for the 1st time. And he's failed twice at chelt.

I just wish coneyg was there to serve it up to all of them again!
Report timtin January 13, 2016 10:13 PM GMT
Vautour proved he stays 3 miles, so with a waiting ride in the middle of the pack like Ruby gave Djakadam last year it'll give him a winning chance but the important question is will he stay up that hill after the 3 more exhausting than the KG miles ? Its not the flat easy Kempton, its the ultimate stamina/class test and you can win 10 KG's but struggle at Chelt. If they have doubts why not give him another year, take the Ryanair this time and return next season in the GC, it'll be the sensible option. Going for the GC it'll mean they'll either obsessed with winning the GC or they know for sure Vautour will stay the trip against this year's opposition which is not possible unless they'll test him against Djakadam which they won't.
Report charlieptl January 13, 2016 11:08 PM GMT
I think Vautour will go the Gold Cup and win the Gold Cup.

Stayed 3m in the KG, though not as impressively as some (myself included) would have liked, but this is a spring horse. It took Willie all year to get him right for the festival in 2025, and right he was, clearly loves Cheltenham. Come March he will be fitter and most likely running on better ground than he did in the KG.

Aside from spectacular jumping last year, couldn't get over how much energy he had left in the tank after winning the JLT.
Report Haventaclue January 13, 2016 11:26 PM GMT
Heart not head says Vautour will stay the Gold Cup trip.
The heart says he will be fitter than at Kempton, he’ll prefer going left-handed, he will probably get better ground and float over it and jump spectacularly out of it as he has done before, and Ruby will have the experience of Kempton under his belt and will have ideas on when to give him breathers.
The head says that he did a lot right at Kempton but got beat because he didn’t stay strongly enough, and Cheltenham is two furlongs further, and they go up that hill three times and only come down it twice.
The heart also says that this horse is a superstar, and you can’t be a superstar in the Ryanair (even if you do run up to a mark of 293p).
My wallet is close to my heart. I’m on straight at 12/1 and nrnb at 7/1.
Report timtin January 13, 2016 11:44 PM GMT
@Haventaclue your heart says he's a superstar because he won the JLT doing what other top class would've done and people calling him a superstar for doing it, even though the main races for novice chasers are the Arkle and RSA, not the JLT. Same story this year, so by winning the Festival Trophy(won by class horses like Cue Card and     Imperial Commander) in the same style will make people express the same thing about him. It'll also give him another year to develop into a proper GC contender for 2017. It all depends what Willie and RR want, how desperate they are and how Djakadam performs next time.
Report Haventaclue January 13, 2016 11:59 PM GMT
Yeah, have to agree that they could easily decide to give him another year before trying the GC. But I'm not sure many other top class novices could have done what he did in the JLT. I'm not talking about the bare form, which is still excellent, more the style of it.
Report timtin January 14, 2016 12:19 AM GMT
I think Coneygree as a novice winning the GC, would've been even more stylish. Vautour still has to reach that level despite how good he looked. Faugheen also left V. Lido for dead even more impressively as a novice with Ruby not using his whip once but hugging him in the last furlong. On Vautour he was all out up to the line in the JLT. The 2 and half miles seems right up his street at the moment so why not. GC will be a hard race, winning or not, if they go with him there and he's found lacking he's in a worse position than he'd be if he goes for the Festival Trophy and comes back for next season GC. The decider however will be Djakadam who should win well NTO.
Report duffy January 14, 2016 3:31 AM GMT
Think budd has got this spot on and to be honest there has been a lot of pages since the KG wasted on if's and but's, the fact of the matter that as much of a prize the KG is, it was also serving as a finding out mission with regards to Vautour's stamina.

1. We found out he will not stay 3+ around Cheltenham.
Report DECALEC January 14, 2016 6:38 AM GMT
Ballax
Report Can't Catch Me January 14, 2016 8:04 AM GMT
Has any horse ever won four different races at the Cheltenahm Festival?npretty sure they haven't.

Could this possibly be on their mind if they decide Ryaniar this year and GC next year?
Report FOYLESWAR January 14, 2016 9:24 AM GMT
theres a school of thought that Kempton is an "easy" 3 miles and 2 and a half even 2 milers can get the trip , but its far from an easy 3 miles ,in the king George they usually go off at a good clip ,theres no hiding place  ,yes some like edrodon bleu win  the kg but its few and far between .
Cheltenham with its undulations offers the chance of a breather going down the hill ,vautour may or may not get the trip, connections will know better than us , but as said earlier he will likely  have his conditions .............just the unknown extra 2 furlongs
Report charlieptl January 14, 2016 10:14 AM GMT
@duffy - I wouldn't say pages have been wasted by if's and buts re Vautour staying, and saying 'we found out he will not stay 3+ around Cheltenham' is simply another form of speculation. We won't know whether he will get 3 miles and 2 until he has tried it.
Report FOYLESWAR January 14, 2016 11:26 AM GMT
yep agree its all in the hands of connections ,we can only speculate on where he will end up ,
Report maelduin January 14, 2016 12:24 PM GMT
Nobody said he wasn't ready Gazo. I'm talking about fitness levels. Not many horses have an issue with this like Vautour does.
Report charwell. January 14, 2016 9:37 PM GMT
People make all the excuses in the world following a defeat.

I am very sweet on Vatour as a horse and last years performance was breathtaking. However, 3m 2f with an uphill finish; he won; stay in a taxi. A flat 3m at Kempton was beyond him; fitness lacking or not.

Dom Poli looks the winner to me for the GC.
Report charwell. January 14, 2016 9:37 PM GMT
won't stay in a taxi!
Report stevo1 January 15, 2016 12:08 AM GMT
Just hope they run Vautour in Gold Cup, to end all conjecture will be great race if all showing.
Report buddeliea January 15, 2016 6:48 AM GMT
Yep,that's what we want.
Report FOYLESWAR January 15, 2016 10:57 AM GMT
yeah don't think theres a lot more to be said until we know what race he goes in !
Report Roger The Butler January 15, 2016 11:42 PM GMT
Seagull in the Racing Post Gold Cup spotlight on Thursday said Vautour is likely to go off favourite for it.
Report FOYLESWAR January 16, 2016 9:27 AM GMT
roger , what did seagull think as to vautours run in the king George and regards to vautour staying 3m+ thanks
Report maelduin January 16, 2016 1:28 PM GMT
The money is going to come flooding in for Vautour if he lines up in the GC with Ruby on board. Segal spot on. imo
Report duffy January 16, 2016 3:35 PM GMT
^
only if they never watched the KG.Grin
Report miltons sophie January 16, 2016 9:14 PM GMT
if you tell people theres going to be a sugar shortage then people go out and stock up on sugar and hey presto theres a sugar shortage
Report impossible123 January 16, 2016 9:58 PM GMT
Vautour...winning the CGC...yes, in a horsebox!
Report Roger The Butler January 16, 2016 10:39 PM GMT
FOYLESWAR   
16 Jan 16 09:27 
roger , what did seagull think as to vautours run in the king George and regards to vautour staying 3m+ thanks


Don't really remember Foyle, but he did say previous Festival form is important and that Vautour has two cracking pieces of that. Also that he's best left handed and in spring, which we all know anyway.
Report timtin January 16, 2016 11:31 PM GMT
This is the GC excerpt Foyles:

"At the start of the season the perceived wisdom was we were heralding a new golden era of staying
chasers, but that didn’t come to fruition in the King George when Cue Card beat the new kids on the block.
Don Cossack and Vautour might easily reverse those placings at Cheltenham, but Cue Card proved the
younger horses weren’t miles better than those with proven form in top races. That adds credence to my
theory that Road To Riches is grossly overpriced.
Vautour and Don Cossack are the two I fear most. The former didn’t convince everyone in the King
George that three and a quarter miles at Cheltenham was going to be his bag, but he is likely to improve
again for that run and going left ­handed is also going to be a big help.
Vautour has been incredibly impressive at two previous Cheltenham Festivals and is most definitely a
major player. He is likely to start favourite on the day and the Willie Mullins team have consistently said the
Gold Cup is his festival target.
Don Cossack might have won the King George but for a fall two out and, considering how messily the
race went for him, there has to be every chance he can beat Cue Card and Vautour at Cheltenham. The trip
will suit, but he remains clumsy at some of his fences and has twice been to Cheltenham without success.
The evergreen Cue Card seems better than ever and looks an out ­and ­out stayer these days, so has to
be given serious consideration too, but Don Poli hasn’t yet beaten a serious Gold Cup contender over fences
and will need a real slog to win
"
Report FOYLESWAR January 17, 2016 9:02 AM GMT
thanks for that  timtin!
Report stevo1 January 19, 2016 9:00 PM GMT
If Djakadam dont win his prep, could see Vautour going Fav.
Report buddeliea January 19, 2016 9:23 PM GMT
When is Vautours prep?
Report stevo1 January 19, 2016 9:49 PM GMT
Think he will go direct to Gold Cup,only alternative Irish Gold Cup in Feb,possibly on heavy ground? Cant see them travelling again to UK before Gold Cup.
Report buddeliea January 20, 2016 6:57 AM GMT
That's what I thought,so he would be fav after failing to stay well in the KG?
Be a false fav then if that's the case.
Report Paterson92 January 20, 2016 11:09 AM GMT
Yeah I'm sure everyone had Djakadam down as a horse who would finish a close 2nd in a Gold Cup after his Hennessy run ... Not!

But yet people are certain Vautour won't stay even though arguably he would have won a King George with a better jump at the last, jokers!

Was his first run over 3 miles and will be in better nick for the Spring as Mullins does with Ricci horses, he's a serious contender!
Report GAZO January 20, 2016 11:17 AM GMT
and don cossack would have won if he hadnt fallen and cue card would have won by more if he had jumped the last well,nobody  knows anything for certain but on looking at that kempton run he cantered into the straight and emptied from the last and i would guess that if don cossack had stood up and won by a few lenghts the argument would be cc or ryanair
Report Paterson92 January 20, 2016 11:24 AM GMT
Totally agree with you mate, it is all ifs and buts, however there's no way people can be certain at this stage that Vautour won't stay when you take all things into consideration!
Report miltons sophie January 20, 2016 2:54 PM GMT
Paterson - Vautour is one of the most appreciated horses i have ever known and the forum via masses of posts have been largely full of praise for him - i think jokers is a little harsh for the small minority that probably feel like they are breaking some sacrosanct code for not sharing the popular view.Tthe irony is that some that dont feel he will stay are also massive fans of the horse.
Report impossible123 January 20, 2016 5:10 PM GMT
I'd back Vautour in the CC (against UDS/SS), Ryanair (against DC/RTR/Jkdam) but not the CGC if DC and Djakadam are running; Vautour is a very good horse in training but over 26f at Cheltenham, I'd refrain.
Report buddeliea January 20, 2016 5:23 PM GMT
Those hat think he won't stay are those that believe the form book,in particular the run in the King George,and nowt wrong with that.
Those that think he will stay are looking beyond the form book and looking at reasons why the form book says what it says,nowt wrong with that either. Choice is there.

As for the Ryanair....it's now a Grade 1 race in its own right and is there for horses that excel at around two and a half miles.
If you look at the Gold Cup,most of the fancied horses Would be fancied big time for the Ryanair.....not just Vautour and RTR,who are mentioned more than the others. Cue Card,Djakadam would certainly be big runners as well
Probably be a more exciting race in a lot of ways if they all ran!! Well it would be and you would probably see horses reaching very high ratings
Maybe not so intriguing though!
I wonder what Vautour fans would rather see, a similar maybe better performance in the Ryanair to the JLT,or a performance seeing him struggle to get home.They choose the Gold Cup,you may see the latter...then again you might see a new Gold Cup superstar!!
What a decision to be made.
Personally as a fan of horse racing and horses in general I hope connections simply put him in the best race suited to him.
Report duffy January 20, 2016 5:25 PM GMT
Champion Chase it is thenGrin
Report buddeliea January 20, 2016 5:49 PM GMT
Laugh
Report Paterson92 January 20, 2016 7:27 PM GMT
miltons sophie - apologies, been one of those days. I'm not a Vautour backer nor would I bet against him. But I can guarantee the same people who say he won't stay the Gold Cup trip are the same people who said he wouldn't see out the Kempton trip. You simply can't dismiss him when you take into consideration it was his first run over 3 miles and will be a better horse in March on better ground and at a track he's 2/2. Do I think he will stay? No. I just don't understand why people dismiss him. They 100% would have dismissed Djakadam much like I did. I backed him at 25/1 before the 2014 Hennessy and along with many others, wrote him off completely. I saw it as Champagne Fever all over again!
Report miltons sophie January 20, 2016 9:08 PM GMT
Paterson - no worries - totally get your perspective
Report apple wine January 20, 2016 9:27 PM GMT
Will he won't he, who knows? My take is that the look on Ruby's face after the JLT was like deja vous to after the 2006 Betfair Chase on Kauto, sheer euphoria. I completely accept he's not sure to stay up the hill. However with his record in the Spring at the fez at the current 7s NRNB I'm more than happy to get the wheelbarrow out & leave myself in the hands of Ruby & Mullins. In a nutshell IMHO if he stays he wins & wins large, that's my kind of 7/1 shot. Best of luck whatever your view!!
Report DECALEC January 21, 2016 11:41 PM GMT
Had £300 @6/1 nrnb lads went to go in again changed to 4/1 so opened  winner sp acc dep £100 all they would take £34.95 its a hard game
Report charwell. January 23, 2016 3:45 AM GMT
I find the argument 'first run over 3 miles' one of the biggest red herrings ever.

How in any way, shape or form does that influence a horses ability to stay an extra 2 furlongs uphill?!

Sorry, but if a horse gasses over a flat 3m @ Kempton then as long as I have a hole in my backside it will not stay the 3m2f round Pestbury Park.

Kauto Star never truly stayed the 3m2f and only his sheer class saw him win 2 x GC's; but he ran rings around all opposition over 3m @ Kempton and stayed every yard of that trip!

As a fan of dog racing if you saw a dog fade when upped in trip the first time invariably when tried at that distance again the same result followed as sure as night follows day. Stamina is not acquired by running over a trip further than ideal and doing it again.
Report buddeliea January 23, 2016 6:26 AM GMT
One of kauris best performances was at Ascot over 2 and a half m in the lead up to his defeat by Denman.
I agree Kauto was at his best over less than the Gold Cup distance.....I think Vautour is as well.
Whether running in this Gold Cup affects Vautours future....who knows,but I am pretty sure he will be out of his comfort zone.
I would love to see Vautour in the Gold Cup,that's cos I am selfish and want to see them all line up in what could be a classic to remember for a long time.
For the horse though,I would like to see him in the Ryanair. That's his optimum distance imo,and the distance you would see him at his best.
Report buddeliea January 23, 2016 6:27 AM GMT
kauris ? Kauto!!
Report moat January 23, 2016 6:46 AM GMT
Cant understand after what Paddy Mullins said last night Vautour hasnt shortened at least im a lot more confident its Gold Cup. The long and short of it he said the horse could win the Cup and if you could win that or the Ryan theres no choice the Gold Cup is the Gold cup. Im feelin a lot better about my antepost anyway
Report seaside dreamer January 23, 2016 9:58 AM GMT
agree moat.....he almost dismissed djakadam aswell....only one gold cup.
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