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The Macgheen!
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Classic example of a horse just not quite quick enough for the very best over 2m. Would be great to see a 2m4f race on the Friday, perhaps with a £1m bonus to see if the CH winner could be attracted from earlier in the week.
Good horse but any doubt on it being 'unlucky' was settled for sure today
Good horse but any doubt on it being 'unlucky' was settled for sure today
Unlucky to have a trainer running him on heavy ground and
his son on board god help him
his son on board god help him
unlucky that the CH isn't run right handed where he would be able to get a place.
Bit unfair to say it was an awful ride imo. Was instructed to follow Faugheen and he did just that til the 2nd last. Wasn't good enough. Simples.
New one should have took up the running when they went a crawl for over half way, was never gonna have the speed of faugheen hid only chance was to go a strong gallop, jockey fault
Watched an interview before the race and Ntd said the plan was to stay behind Faugheen. Can't blame jockey for following instructions imo.
In that case the plan was an overwhelming success - he DID stay behind Faugheen!!!
Very disappointing to get beaten by all three of the Mullins team. I went to Chelts today and it seemed that the English horses were only there to make up the numbers apart from The Druids Nephew who prevented yet another Irish 1-2 in the handicap and Irish Cavalier may have been trained in Wales but at least it restricted Ireland to 5 out of 7. It was a bit like watching our cricket team. If you score the races 3 points win, 2 points second and 1 for third the result was Ireland 25, England 14, Wales 3.
Its ridiculous to say the rider cost him the race. They could run the race 100 times and he would not win it
I thought AP & STD rode shockers, allowed Fagheen to slow it to a crawl throughout. Not saying it would had made any difference to the result but it was pretty poor to allow the slow pace but world class by ruby and made them look stupid.
It's just another example of the adage that it is dangerous to make excuses. Too many people looked for something last year and they looked in the wrong place. Many of us said they shouldn't have been looking at the interference but at the fact that he was in a good position at the top of the hill and lack of tactical speed was what undid him far more than the interference. History repeated itself today but it happened later because they didn't kick as early.
The best horse doesn't usually lose the race. For example, if Douvan had lost today there would have been a lot of people pointing to the fact that he didn't settle early The facts is he was the best horse and so nobody is commenting on it. I was one who backed L'Ami Serge and yes he got hampered down the back straight and slowed up in traffic on the run downhill but it would be foolhardy to think he was the best horse in the race and but for that things would have been different. They wouldn't.
The best horse doesn't usually lose the race. For example, if Douvan had lost today there would have been a lot of people pointing to the fact that he didn't settle early The facts is he was the best horse and so nobody is commenting on it. I was one who backed L'Ami Serge and yes he got hampered down the back straight and slowed up in traffic on the run downhill but it would be foolhardy to think he was the best horse in the race and but for that things would have been different. They wouldn't.
TNO was very unluckly last year,watching that race makes it clear to see.
This year he was beaten by a much better horse than we had last year,as was last years champion.
This year he was beaten by a much better horse than we had last year,as was last years champion.
Im no STD fan, but how could you blame him for that? Horse simply not quick enough for 2m at championship pace.
They all played into Ruby's hands. Two of them were riding to instructions from the same trainer leaving AP and STD to either take Ruby on or sit behind him. They were both wrong with hindsight but would it have made any difference?
No,don't think so mate,looked to me that hes simply a lot better horse.
The new one, would not of won no matter how the race was run, nor would any of the other runners. Mullins and Walsh were confident of that and they could ride Faugheen however they wanted and he'd win.. Infact he's form suggests if he'd gone harder he'd of won by further, so why go slow?
Answer Hurricane Fly, in a fast run race his chance would of been badly effected, but in a slow run race, he'd have a much better chance against the others. We know Jezki and The New One needed a fast pace, so make sure they don't get it!
#conspiracytheroy.
Answer Hurricane Fly, in a fast run race his chance would of been badly effected, but in a slow run race, he'd have a much better chance against the others. We know Jezki and The New One needed a fast pace, so make sure they don't get it!
#conspiracytheroy.
Not saying Faugheen wasn't the best horse, just that having three runners gives a stable a big advantage over the rest as Aiden O'B repeatedly demonstrates on the flat.
Budd
No doubt he was beaten by the better horse. That isn't the issue. He was beaten by other horses and did exactly what he did last year in that at a crucial stage he got outspeeded and then began to stay on again. He simply lacks the tactical speed to go with that surge when it comes on.
No doubt he was beaten by the better horse. That isn't the issue. He was beaten by other horses and did exactly what he did last year in that at a crucial stage he got outspeeded and then began to stay on again. He simply lacks the tactical speed to go with that surge when it comes on.
Ive said my opinion on TNO last year and this year.
I stick by the opinion that last year he lost the race with the incident,and this year he was not good enough against a much better horse than we had last year.Yes,he could not go when Faugheen went,nor could Jezki,Fly,and only Arctic Fire could get anywhere near the winner.So they all got outpaced at the crucial time.
To be honest I have had enough of the debate on TNO.
I stick by the opinion that last year he lost the race with the incident,and this year he was not good enough against a much better horse than we had last year.Yes,he could not go when Faugheen went,nor could Jezki,Fly,and only Arctic Fire could get anywhere near the winner.So they all got outpaced at the crucial time.
To be honest I have had enough of the debate on TNO.
Whatever view you take on The New One last year (I think he would have won it), there's no doubt this year that he was a stone below his best.
He is a good horse but does seem to struggle when up against the cream.
You need luck in this game and he certainly never got any in last years race.Sometimes you only get one chance at landing the big one.
Will he be staying hurdling?
You need luck in this game and he certainly never got any in last years race.Sometimes you only get one chance at landing the big one.
Will he be staying hurdling?
Nothing over here to beat him just once a year he comes up against the best. Shame we dont seem to see them clash anymore, pre cheltenham.
of course an injured spine wont affect his jumping, it won,t even hurt 
Word has it that connections had quite the fallout as horse was known to not be 100% before the Festival but the majority refused to withdraw. Be very surprised if he sports the same silks next season.
Was that the reason for the drift a week or 2 before the race ?
Agree Howdi and have said it a number of times on here over the last two years and got my nose cut off a couple of times. They may have missed the boat though as it appears best if a horse only spends one year hurdling before going chasing. A pity though if they have got it wrong.
buddeliea
11 Mar 15 06:41
TNO was very unluckly last year,watching that race makes it clear to see.
This year he was beaten by a much better horse than we had last year,as was last years champion.
He didn't come 2nd though!! he was once again beaten by Jezki and even HF reversed form with him and MTOY's who beat him last year didn't run!
kitten rock, bertimont, vaniteux, HF (once),melodic rendezvous, CCB, ptit zig, grumeti are the horses he's beaten that completed in the past 2 CH's.
11 Mar 15 06:41
TNO was very unluckly last year,watching that race makes it clear to see.
This year he was beaten by a much better horse than we had last year,as was last years champion.
He didn't come 2nd though!! he was once again beaten by Jezki and even HF reversed form with him and MTOY's who beat him last year didn't run!
kitten rock, bertimont, vaniteux, HF (once),melodic rendezvous, CCB, ptit zig, grumeti are the horses he's beaten that completed in the past 2 CH's.
If he goes chasing they'll first have to sort him out with regards to going out to his right, he'll lose even more ground and momentum over fences doing that....it's not just when he jumps either he has his head at an awkward position and lugs right between the flights, watch the CH again and you can see the jock with his whip in his right hand trying to keep him straight a lot of the time.
I'd take the default position of seeing if he will stay 3 miles and go WH, the slower pace may help the jumping and going out to his right as it tends to be worse with the more pressure he's under.
Was he meant to finish 2nd?
Looked to me like he was in better shape last year going in to the race what with the Haydock race and the finding of his injury since the race..
Quiet a fair reversal with Hfly suggests he weren't as good this year,and it does seem they have found a possible reason.
Anyway however one looks at it,he was certainly unlucky last year.
And looking at Jezki suggests Faugheen is a fair bit better than last years lot.
Looked to me like he was in better shape last year going in to the race what with the Haydock race and the finding of his injury since the race..
Quiet a fair reversal with Hfly suggests he weren't as good this year,and it does seem they have found a possible reason.
Anyway however one looks at it,he was certainly unlucky last year.
And looking at Jezki suggests Faugheen is a fair bit better than last years lot.
I'm of the opinion Artic Fire is the one to take out of the race, monster improvement from him and he is young.
Fair enough...just on the faugheen issue, I'm not as big a fan as some and certainly can see some mileage in being against him with regards his jumping, the fact that they decided to make it a crawl which on face value would appear to be against a 3 mile point to ptp winner suggests to me that they were suitably concerned about his jumping that they were happy to do that....sure enough his two worse jumps were when the pace quickened and he was harried....if that kind of pressure was applied throughout it may have caused him big problems earlier.....the question about his jumping at pace throughout despite the race being run has still not been answered and seeing evidence that supports the negative view about his jumping makes 6/4 opposable...I'll be against him for sure.
Yeh I'm not totally convinced with Faugheen either but where's the opposition?
All I can see is possibly Arctic Fire if he can continue improving,and the 4 yr olds.
He could be another multiple winner not so much cos he's that good but maybe cos of lack of opposition.
We really need to have the likes of Peace and co,top notch or Hargam to be real good hurdlers,otherwise I fear for this division.
All I can see is possibly Arctic Fire if he can continue improving,and the 4 yr olds.
He could be another multiple winner not so much cos he's that good but maybe cos of lack of opposition.
We really need to have the likes of Peace and co,top notch or Hargam to be real good hurdlers,otherwise I fear for this division.
I'm amazed people are still crabbing Faugheen. I accept Arctic Fire was getting close at the end but in nine races he has never remotely looked like being beaten. Some were on here two months ago saying the 2014 race was the best of the last 20 years (I've never believed that) and Faugheen beat them handily. Imo if someone else had made a faster pace he would have beaten them out of sight. There's no opposition because he has proved conclusively he's better than what's around. But a year is a long time in a horse's life and we have hundreds of examples of what can happen.
I wonder how long The New One has been struggling with back problems. I have never been the horses biggest fan but this may explain why he has always carried the Brandy squiggle 
I thought it was interesting that Peace And Co ran 3 seconds faster than Wicklow Brave between the 2nd last and last flight, and also 3 seconds quicker after the last to the line. Especially when Wicklow Brave left the County hurdle field for dead so easily.
I think on decent ground Peace And Co will be a major force in next years Champion.
I thought it was interesting that Peace And Co ran 3 seconds faster than Wicklow Brave between the 2nd last and last flight, and also 3 seconds quicker after the last to the line. Especially when Wicklow Brave left the County hurdle field for dead so easily.
I think on decent ground Peace And Co will be a major force in next years Champion.
Faugheen will probably sweep all before him in Ireland next year, so I can see him going off very short for the Champion Hurdle again.
I think the interesting races will be if Peace and Co and Hargam face each other in Internationals/Christmas Hurdles etc. No idea about Top Notch's plans, whether he stays hurdling or not...I assume he will?
Arctic Fire has no doubt improved, but I don't think he will have the ability to win a Champion Hurdle, personally. I think next years race will be a stronger one than the one just gone.
I wouldn't be surprised if two out of TNO, Jezki and MTOY went chasing, so with Douvan's potential, I think we could have a great Arkle (on paper anyway).
I think the interesting races will be if Peace and Co and Hargam face each other in Internationals/Christmas Hurdles etc. No idea about Top Notch's plans, whether he stays hurdling or not...I assume he will?
Arctic Fire has no doubt improved, but I don't think he will have the ability to win a Champion Hurdle, personally. I think next years race will be a stronger one than the one just gone.
I wouldn't be surprised if two out of TNO, Jezki and MTOY went chasing, so with Douvan's potential, I think we could have a great Arkle (on paper anyway).
I ain't really crabbing faugheen,I've just seen better jumpers of a hurdle,that's why I ain't totally convinced of him as a top champion hurdler. He could still rattle off multiple titles though if he has no opposition, that's why IMO we need the 4 yr olds to step up,otherwise we have not much of a race to look forward to....... To be honest I think the first 3 home in the Triumph are all well
Above average 4 yr olds, so I have a good feeling about them.
It is clear he's a good horse,and its possible he has just beaten a top field,but as much as I admire fly, he's 11 and beaten last years winner countless times this season.
I am now of the opinion that whilst its possible Faugheen may be very good,the opposition to him were average.
Above average 4 yr olds, so I have a good feeling about them.
It is clear he's a good horse,and its possible he has just beaten a top field,but as much as I admire fly, he's 11 and beaten last years winner countless times this season.
I am now of the opinion that whilst its possible Faugheen may be very good,the opposition to him were average.
Everyone has an opinion so I suggest to use it and make an argumentation for the following: what hurdlers since Istabraq would've been able to beat Faugheen?
I do agree with @buddeliea that it won't be a race to look forward to next season, and I'll start losing interest if his connections decide not to test Faugheen over different obstacles, seeing him doing the same thing over and over again will be boring and horse racing will suffer from this instead of thriving by putting him up to new challenges.
I do agree with @buddeliea that it won't be a race to look forward to next season, and I'll start losing interest if his connections decide not to test Faugheen over different obstacles, seeing him doing the same thing over and over again will be boring and horse racing will suffer from this instead of thriving by putting him up to new challenges.
There have been some really good ones since Istabrq.
Hardy Eustace, Brave Inca and Hurricane Fly at his peak would give Faugheen a really good race.
I have no doubt that The Fly at his peak would beat Faugheen at his peak in Ireland. Champion Hurdle I'm not so sure though. At Cheltenham I think the Fly would struggle to live with him.
In my eyes, Faugheen still has a long long way to go to be mentioned in the same bracket as Hurricane Fly, despite him already being a dual festival winner.
People crab the Fly's win like "he only beat Peddlers Cross" etc but I'm sure we'll be saying the same about Faugheen and Arctic Fire in a few years.
Next year will be the acid test for Faugheen imo. Because of his win, his unbeaten record and his rating, he'll always go down in history as a very good Champion Hurdle winner, but if he can win it again next year beating the good up and coming crop, he could go down as one of the modern best - but he's not there yet for me.
Hardy Eustace, Brave Inca and Hurricane Fly at his peak would give Faugheen a really good race.
I have no doubt that The Fly at his peak would beat Faugheen at his peak in Ireland. Champion Hurdle I'm not so sure though. At Cheltenham I think the Fly would struggle to live with him.
In my eyes, Faugheen still has a long long way to go to be mentioned in the same bracket as Hurricane Fly, despite him already being a dual festival winner.
People crab the Fly's win like "he only beat Peddlers Cross" etc but I'm sure we'll be saying the same about Faugheen and Arctic Fire in a few years.
Next year will be the acid test for Faugheen imo. Because of his win, his unbeaten record and his rating, he'll always go down in history as a very good Champion Hurdle winner, but if he can win it again next year beating the good up and coming crop, he could go down as one of the modern best - but he's not there yet for me.
"Next year will be the acid test for Faugheen imo" wouldn't you want to see him taking new challenges than trying to do the same thing over again? Wouldn't you be more interested if he's able to cope with the fences and see his stamina limitations than to see him going again for the same task?
Fly is far ahead of Faugheen in terms of years of consistency at the highest level over 2 miles, however Faugheen is far more versatile in regards to tracks, trips and ground but I do agree that Fly should be and is probably held in higher regards because he's achieved alot more than Faugheen, when you think of hurdlers of modern era Hurricane Fly is up there alone, I agree that ability wise he's not that far ahead but his consistency puts him above the rest.
Fly is far ahead of Faugheen in terms of years of consistency at the highest level over 2 miles, however Faugheen is far more versatile in regards to tracks, trips and ground but I do agree that Fly should be and is probably held in higher regards because he's achieved alot more than Faugheen, when you think of hurdlers of modern era Hurricane Fly is up there alone, I agree that ability wise he's not that far ahead but his consistency puts him above the rest.
I don't see a problem keeping him hurdling and going for multiple champion hurdles to be honest.
When looking back at a horses legacy I don't see it as a negative. If anything it can enhance his reputation as he becomes synonymous with that race.
A hypothetic example would be Big Bucks. I personally think he'd be remembered more as a four time World Hurdle winner, than if he'd won the Albert Bartlett, World Hurdle, RSA, Gold Cup route. Just my opinion though (ie almost like what Bobs Worth did)
I'm looking forward to next years Champion Hurdle. For me its a shame there isn't really anything to take Faugheen on in Ireland throughout the winter (no disrespect intended to Arctic Fire and Jezki fans).
When looking back at a horses legacy I don't see it as a negative. If anything it can enhance his reputation as he becomes synonymous with that race.
A hypothetic example would be Big Bucks. I personally think he'd be remembered more as a four time World Hurdle winner, than if he'd won the Albert Bartlett, World Hurdle, RSA, Gold Cup route. Just my opinion though (ie almost like what Bobs Worth did)
I'm looking forward to next years Champion Hurdle. For me its a shame there isn't really anything to take Faugheen on in Ireland throughout the winter (no disrespect intended to Arctic Fire and Jezki fans).
The first 3 home in the Triumph are obviously very good but could it be a bit like when you think you have 3 or 4 derby winners you probably dont have any. History is very much against them tbf for 2016 but 2017 could be different.
Its not a negative to win the same race multiple times but its far more prestigious to try and win the best races of both codes. Paddy Mullins gave Dawn Run a better legacy by trying and succeeding the GC and CH double, her statue is proof of that, while Quevega with her 6 times record festival wins only has a bar named after her..
His son may not have the same aspirations but everyone living in present will go nuts if he'll send Faugheen over fences, the anticipation will be higher than if he remains hurdling. Basically it'll give us 10x more things to talk about for the next season and much more publicity for jumps racing. Why wouldn't horse racing fans want that? Or why wouldn't his owner want that? Only the trainer wants to take the safe route, but the owners must always seek something different as you're not going to come by a horse like Faugheen very often.
His son may not have the same aspirations but everyone living in present will go nuts if he'll send Faugheen over fences, the anticipation will be higher than if he remains hurdling. Basically it'll give us 10x more things to talk about for the next season and much more publicity for jumps racing. Why wouldn't horse racing fans want that? Or why wouldn't his owner want that? Only the trainer wants to take the safe route, but the owners must always seek something different as you're not going to come by a horse like Faugheen very often.
The point is, if he was hassled and made to run faster throughout the race there is a real chance that his jumping will suffer, I'm not guessing at this because we have evidence in both the Neptune and the CH that when the pace quickened he made a dreadful mistake, imagine if he put those kind of mistakes in earlier, it is possible because as I say we have seen evidence to suggest it is possible.
If it does happen then he ceases to be the world beater many think he is and a whole host of horses come back into the picture....again, why were they so intent on sending a horse that stays 3 miles well racing at a relative crawl in a speed contest?? it's because their priority was to look after his jumping and they thought that the opposition was poor enough that the pace he does have would be enough to see them off.....if he was a good jumper he would have set a much much stronger pace.
We've seen this horse make 2 bad mistakes at the exact same point in the race under the exact same conditions for the first time in each race, he's a class horse for sure but the fact remains that when he has to race faster and jump quicker he's partial to guessing at them.....there's no way the opposition will let him get away with it next year and then we'll see.
I agree about the people bigging up P&C, I wasn't convinced before the Triumph but am now, he's such a lovely jumper and traveller, he came up the hill well after giving ground at the last and was value for more than the winning distance, I'd be amazed if he isn't comfortably 2nd fav going into next years race and at this moment I'd be with him....having said that, if MTOY's comes back hurdling and by some miracle of modern science doesn't pull anymore....he'd be my winner!
If it does happen then he ceases to be the world beater many think he is and a whole host of horses come back into the picture....again, why were they so intent on sending a horse that stays 3 miles well racing at a relative crawl in a speed contest?? it's because their priority was to look after his jumping and they thought that the opposition was poor enough that the pace he does have would be enough to see them off.....if he was a good jumper he would have set a much much stronger pace.
We've seen this horse make 2 bad mistakes at the exact same point in the race under the exact same conditions for the first time in each race, he's a class horse for sure but the fact remains that when he has to race faster and jump quicker he's partial to guessing at them.....there's no way the opposition will let him get away with it next year and then we'll see.
I agree about the people bigging up P&C, I wasn't convinced before the Triumph but am now, he's such a lovely jumper and traveller, he came up the hill well after giving ground at the last and was value for more than the winning distance, I'd be amazed if he isn't comfortably 2nd fav going into next years race and at this moment I'd be with him....having said that, if MTOY's comes back hurdling and by some miracle of modern science doesn't pull anymore....he'd be my winner!
@duffy, I agree that he's not a good jumper but the faster pace would suit his jumping better(see the Christmas Hurdle where the only mistake came at the last where Ruby slowed him just before jumping it). With a slower pace, he's not very fluent at his hurdles(look at the 3rd hurdle in the CH) and puts in awkward jumps(see his Ascot run where it was visible that his jumping was worse the slower they went, and once Ruby asks him to speed before the last hurdle he jumped it really well).
I don't think Ruby considered this year opposition a poor one, quite the opposite I'd say and thats why he rode the race to win, not to win by big margins. His opposition, if he remains over hurdles, know that they need to take him on as late as possible(see McCoy post race interview where he said it was his fault for taking on the leader too early which cost him 2nd/3rd place), otherwise they will finish unplaced, or they could enter some pacemakers but Faugheen doesn't needs to lead and he'll sit just behind them and will most likely win by bigger margin.
Sectionals show(https://www.timeform.com/racing/Articles/Sectional_Debrief_Cheltenham_F... that they've lost 4 seconds from the 2nd hurdle to the 3rd and if we check the video replay we can see what an untidy jump Faugheen put in exactly at the 3rd flight where Ruby had set a sedate pace, so your theory of slower pace better jumping has some cracks. As for the 2nd last at Chelt. its a tricky hurdle and Mick Fitz predicted that he'll make the mistake exactly at that flight as bad jumpers usually get found in that spot and Faugheen as we know is not a good jumper, but that 2nd last had nothing to do with the speed they were going.
I don't think Ruby considered this year opposition a poor one, quite the opposite I'd say and thats why he rode the race to win, not to win by big margins. His opposition, if he remains over hurdles, know that they need to take him on as late as possible(see McCoy post race interview where he said it was his fault for taking on the leader too early which cost him 2nd/3rd place), otherwise they will finish unplaced, or they could enter some pacemakers but Faugheen doesn't needs to lead and he'll sit just behind them and will most likely win by bigger margin.
Sectionals show(https://www.timeform.com/racing/Articles/Sectional_Debrief_Cheltenham_F... that they've lost 4 seconds from the 2nd hurdle to the 3rd and if we check the video replay we can see what an untidy jump Faugheen put in exactly at the 3rd flight where Ruby had set a sedate pace, so your theory of slower pace better jumping has some cracks. As for the 2nd last at Chelt. its a tricky hurdle and Mick Fitz predicted that he'll make the mistake exactly at that flight as bad jumpers usually get found in that spot and Faugheen as we know is not a good jumper, but that 2nd last had nothing to do with the speed they were going.
there's no way the opposition will let him get away with it next year and then we'll see
Its all about opinions Duffy and of course you may be right but I disagree in that if the opposition had tried to make a stronger pace he would have gone with them and destroyed them. The slow pace had nothing to do with his jumping. He was going to win the race irrespective of the pace and it would have been crazy to go off at a crazy pace and risk everything. The horse has won over 3 miles so he stays plenty and NTD believed he lacked pace and they would just press a button and go by him!!!!! Anyway the more people crab Faugheen the better the price next year.
Its all about opinions Duffy and of course you may be right but I disagree in that if the opposition had tried to make a stronger pace he would have gone with them and destroyed them. The slow pace had nothing to do with his jumping. He was going to win the race irrespective of the pace and it would have been crazy to go off at a crazy pace and risk everything. The horse has won over 3 miles so he stays plenty and NTD believed he lacked pace and they would just press a button and go by him!!!!! Anyway the more people crab Faugheen the better the price next year.
Don't really know what McCoy was saying as we know that Jezki wants an end to end gallop!, I'm just very interested in seeing a strong pace from end to end with horses around and upsides him, I'd be very surprised if he didn't make at least a couple more of those mistakes and remember they are not just ordinary mistakes are they, when he makes the mistake that he does it's as if someone has just plonked a hurdle in front of him, he completely guesses at it and horribly lands on his back legs....basically speaking, his jumping is his weakness, again, evidence shows that the approach this year from his opponents doesn't work, therefore they have to approach it differently.
Those incidents of his improved jumping that timtin points out isn't the same as I'm talking about, in those instances he still has plenty of room and time to organize himself, I'm talking about horses being around him and forcing it at every fence, yes he may be up to it, but it is definitely a potential undoing of him.
Those incidents of his improved jumping that timtin points out isn't the same as I'm talking about, in those instances he still has plenty of room and time to organize himself, I'm talking about horses being around him and forcing it at every fence, yes he may be up to it, but it is definitely a potential undoing of him.
Really don't see the argument about Faugheen trying new things,I mean what on earth is wrong with winning the premier hurdle race of the season multiple times?? It's up to others to get to his level,and if they can't then I would expect no less than him to turn up every year in the CHurdle.
As for his jumping,he's a CHurdle winner that could look at Top Notch to see how a hurdle should be jumped.
I've yet to see that horse miss one.
He can still win multiple titles though as said before,cos he can get away with that jumping If his ability otherwise is so much better.
Let's just hope for racing sake that the 4 yr olds prove good enough.
As for his jumping,he's a CHurdle winner that could look at Top Notch to see how a hurdle should be jumped.
I've yet to see that horse miss one.
He can still win multiple titles though as said before,cos he can get away with that jumping If his ability otherwise is so much better.
Let's just hope for racing sake that the 4 yr olds prove good enough.
The other point I'd make with regards to the people who say that the faster they go the better his jumping would be, well, he isn't a good jumper so my question would be, why does it appear that connections didn't want to risk it, they obviously don't believe it and I think it was because they were very worried that his admitted stamina advantage would be negated by his flawed jumping.
At the end of the day they got it right!! they compromised one of his assets to accommodate a weakness in his armour and it worked, but there wasn't much room for error as he won by a fast diminishing margin, so it goes without saying that they'd want to improve his jumping so they are able to make more use of him next year through the race....just an opinion though.
At the end of the day they got it right!! they compromised one of his assets to accommodate a weakness in his armour and it worked, but there wasn't much room for error as he won by a fast diminishing margin, so it goes without saying that they'd want to improve his jumping so they are able to make more use of him next year through the race....just an opinion though.
Duffy your posts before this years CH suggested that his jumping would be his downfall. I reckon if you keep at it you'll get it right eventually - probably around 2019!!!!!!!! Dont mind me Duffy I couldnt resist.
I've read a lot of comments on here stating the reason Faugheen took the field along at the slow pace was because they were worried about his jumping, to me this seems unlikely as he's gone a faster pace without making an a race losing error, so why all of a sudden would they think it would all go wrong this time, Walsh and Mullins don't strike me as pessimists!
For me the reason Walsh set a slow pace was to give the Fly the best chance of getting placed, if he'd of gone a quicker pace I'd find it hard to believe that he could of beat TNO or Jezki.
For me the reason Walsh set a slow pace was to give the Fly the best chance of getting placed, if he'd of gone a quicker pace I'd find it hard to believe that he could of beat TNO or Jezki.
You seem to be making a confused argument timtim. I don't understand the logic of the suggestion that a faster pace improves a poor jumpers jumping though Faugheen isn't a poor jumper at all in my eyes. On a flat park course and especially when he meets one right he's very good. He just doesn't seem to me to be all that good on the undulations and turns of the Cheltenham old course. A slick quick jumper taking him on and taking a length out of him at each hurdle would put him under pressure and I think he'll lose more at the downhill third and second last if they are racing at pace. He may well be good enough to cope with all that and still win but I can't think they will allow him to set his own pace next year.
I think Jim McGrath made the relevant point about the horse. He's got a lot of speed. The fact they ran over further last year may give a misleading impression but he was simply the fastest horse in that race. So why shouldn't he set a pace to nurse him over his obstacles knowing full well that he could always account for his adversaries when the pace quickened?
@Eeternaloptimist I only gave examples of how his jumping is not very slick when the pace is slow. Its exactly what Mullins and Walsh said about him in the interviews before the CH where W.M. gave the Neptune as an example of the slow pace which made him jump worse than when going at a faster pace and he said that the pace in the CH will suit him much better. The only part in the CH where they went a crawl was between 2nd and 3rd hurdle when they've lost 4 seconds vs the Supreme race, and at the 3rd flight he took a very untidy jump. The rest of the race was run at a fast pace which helped his jumping and only at the 2nd last he had troubles but that had nothing to do with the speed but more with the unique position of that hurdle.
"Faugheen isn't a poor jumper at all in my eyes" I didn't said he was a `poor` jumper, all I said is that he's not a good jumper relatively with his title.. For a Champion `Hurdler` you'd expect to be somewhat a better jumper than what he'd shown so far.. Thats why they should take him chasing and Gold Cup route; As Mullins said last year he'll learn to respect the obstacles much more than when jumping hurdles.
"Faugheen isn't a poor jumper at all in my eyes" I didn't said he was a `poor` jumper, all I said is that he's not a good jumper relatively with his title.. For a Champion `Hurdler` you'd expect to be somewhat a better jumper than what he'd shown so far.. Thats why they should take him chasing and Gold Cup route; As Mullins said last year he'll learn to respect the obstacles much more than when jumping hurdles.
We can argue till the cows come home but I suggest we let the facts speak for themselves. The taps really get turned on running downhill at Cheltenham and tht is when they are racing at their fastest. He's jumped four hurdles there (two last year and two this) and only one of these jumps didn't result in a significant mistake and at that time 9th third last)he was confortably in front.
Outside of that it is my contention that at all other times he has either been running within himself or he's been running uphill to the last which has allowed him to gather himself. If I had a horse good enough to have a chance in the race the very latest I'd be attacking Faugheen is going to the third last.
Outside of that it is my contention that at all other times he has either been running within himself or he's been running uphill to the last which has allowed him to gather himself. If I had a horse good enough to have a chance in the race the very latest I'd be attacking Faugheen is going to the third last.
It would be a big call to go chasing. He's already seven which suggests thy may have had some problems with him along the way If he schools exceptionally why not but outside of that I'd imagine they will be very happy with what they have for chasing and he's the star of their hurdling ranks. I would be surprised if Douvan doesn't see a fence next season.
I think Douvan and Arctic Fire are more than competent to take his place, plus Annie Power could get a shot as well for the CH if Faugheen is out of the picture so I agree with you, if not now when he's 7 and he'll be 8 next season, then when ? Coneygree did it at 8 so its proof its still possible if Mullins will want to do it.. His father would've went for it :: "Years ago if you won a Champion Hurdle the temptation was to go over fences, like Dawn Run (trained by his father, Paddy), but it's not so common now. I have enough chasers, hopefully."... oh well times are the same but people changed...
Not many horses go chasing after winning a CHurdle,and absolutely nothing wrong with winning the race more than once,plus all the other big hurdle races during the season.
Owner has plenty for chasing with Vautour and Djakadam the main ones who would be huge contenders in the top chases for a few years,especially in Ireland.
So Vautour and Djakadam for the 3m chases,Douvan for the 2m novice chases and Faugheen for the big hurdle races,not too sad is it.
Owner has plenty for chasing with Vautour and Djakadam the main ones who would be huge contenders in the top chases for a few years,especially in Ireland.
So Vautour and Djakadam for the 3m chases,Douvan for the 2m novice chases and Faugheen for the big hurdle races,not too sad is it.
There is not a hope in hell that Faugheen will ever jump a fence under rules. Buddeliea has it exactly right and it's the sensible option.
The only one that might go is Arctic Fire, I'd say the owners would be game but Willie wouldn't be.
The only one that might go is Arctic Fire, I'd say the owners would be game but Willie wouldn't be.
Could mop up a lot of prizemoney in the graded 2 mile races in Ireland still and bar Peace & co the British don't look much so there is that too, but I'd say the owners know he will always come/be treated second to Faugheen.
I'd add Hargam to the list of good British juveniles. I was very taken with how he travelled in the Triumph and given he's a speed horse I was amazed there wasn't more comment about McCoy's aggressive ride.
It's funny how we all view things differently.
I personally feel Peace And Co is in a different parish to Hargam and Top Notch.
I have him pounds above them and the only horse to progress as a Champion Hurdle horse.
I personally feel Peace And Co is in a different parish to Hargam and Top Notch.
I have him pounds above them and the only horse to progress as a Champion Hurdle horse.
Thing is horses tend to improve a fair bit between 4 and 6 yr old, and at varying degrees, so its not cut and dried which of the 3 would be the better Churdle prospect at this stage.
yes,we can all have an opinion,and mine fwiw is that going on what my eyes have seen is that they are all pretty evenly matched if they are given their preferred ground.
They all looked impressive during the season when they had their ideal conditions.
The Triumph unfortunately had ground that went against Hargam,but he ran a good race considering,beating a few that people fancied before the race,and their was little between Peace and Top notch.
To my mind its very difficult to say for sure which of the 3 would be the more likely CH winner of the future.
yes,we can all have an opinion,and mine fwiw is that going on what my eyes have seen is that they are all pretty evenly matched if they are given their preferred ground.
They all looked impressive during the season when they had their ideal conditions.
The Triumph unfortunately had ground that went against Hargam,but he ran a good race considering,beating a few that people fancied before the race,and their was little between Peace and Top notch.
To my mind its very difficult to say for sure which of the 3 would be the more likely CH winner of the future.
THE NEW ONE has never been unlucky, in any year, as a 2-Mile Champion - he lacks a "gear" to be one, in anything other than an average year. He's done as well as he could, given the competition. He is never going to beat FAUGHEEN over 2 miles at Cheltenham, unless Faugheen makes enough errors to hand it to him.
In response to the original question, The New One was 100% unlucky two years ago.
He got caught up in another horses mistake through absolutely no fault of his own, which at the very least made his task a hell of a lot harder.
Compare that to Zarkandar this year whose mistake was all his own work, so he was no way unlucky.
Whether you think The New One would have won two years ago is another question, but he was very unlucky.
He got caught up in another horses mistake through absolutely no fault of his own, which at the very least made his task a hell of a lot harder.
Compare that to Zarkandar this year whose mistake was all his own work, so he was no way unlucky.
Whether you think The New One would have won two years ago is another question, but he was very unlucky.
Of the three juveniloes I think Top Notch would be the one inconvenienced by the old course and half a furlong less. He got the ground that was against the other two and he still couldn't win. Grand horse that he is I think he could be going up in distance and may see a fence sooner than later.
Sometimes you just have to accept something. I was cursing this year when the Henderson horse in the Supreme got similar treatment to The New One a couple of years ago but the simple fact was that the horse was never taking Geraghty into the place he'd want to be to give him the best chance of winning the race. We can argue it until the cows come home but what happened last year also happened this year with TNO. When the taps were turned on he didn't have the tactical speed to go with them.
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