Agree Howdi and have said it a number of times on here over the last two years and got my nose cut off a couple of times. They may have missed the boat though as it appears best if a horse only spends one year hurdling before going chasing. A pity though if they have got it wrong.

buddeliea
     11 Mar 15 06:41

TNO was very unluckly last year,watching that race makes it clear to see.
This year he was beaten by a much better horse than we had last year,as was last years champion. 


He didn't come 2nd though!! he was once again beaten by Jezki and even HF reversed form with him and MTOY's who beat him last year didn't run!

kitten rock, bertimont, vaniteux, HF (once),melodic rendezvous, CCB, ptit zig, grumeti are the horses he's beaten that completed in the past 2 CH's.

I'd take the default position of seeing if he will stay 3 miles and go WH, the slower pace may help the jumping and going out to his right as it tends to be worse with the more pressure he's under.

I'm of the opinion Artic Fire is the one to take out of the race, monster improvement from him and he is young.

Yeh I'm not totally convinced with Faugheen either but where's  the opposition?
All I can see is possibly Arctic Fire if he can continue improving,and the 4 yr olds.
He could be another multiple winner not so much cos he's that good but maybe cos of lack of opposition.
We really need to have the likes of Peace and co,top notch or Hargam to be real good hurdlers,otherwise I fear for this division.

^^^ another good post.

Faugheen will probably sweep all before him in Ireland next year, so I can see him going off very short for the Champion Hurdle again.

I think the interesting races will be if Peace and Co and Hargam face each other in Internationals/Christmas Hurdles etc.  No idea about Top Notch's plans, whether he stays hurdling or not...I assume he will?

Arctic Fire has no doubt improved, but I don't think he will have the ability to win a Champion Hurdle, personally.  I think next years race will be a stronger one than the one just gone.

I wouldn't be surprised if two out of TNO, Jezki and MTOY went chasing, so with Douvan's potential, I think we could have a great Arkle (on paper anyway).

Everyone has an opinion so I suggest to use it and make an argumentation for the following: what hurdlers since Istabraq would've been able to beat Faugheen?

I do agree with @buddeliea that it won't be a race to look forward to next season, and I'll start losing interest if his connections decide not to test Faugheen over different obstacles, seeing him doing the same thing over and over again will be boring and horse racing will suffer from this instead of thriving by putting him up to new challenges.

"Next year will be the acid test for Faugheen imo" wouldn't you want to see him taking new challenges than trying to do the same thing over again? Wouldn't you be more interested if he's able to cope with the fences and see his stamina limitations than to see him going again for the same task?

Fly is far ahead of Faugheen in terms of years of consistency at the highest level over 2 miles, however Faugheen is far more versatile in regards to tracks, trips and ground but I do agree that Fly should be and is probably held in higher regards because he's achieved alot more than Faugheen, when you think of hurdlers of modern era Hurricane Fly is up there alone, I agree that ability wise he's not that far ahead but his consistency puts him above the rest.

The first 3 home in the Triumph are obviously very good but could it be a bit like when you think you have 3 or 4 derby winners you probably dont have any. History is very much against them tbf for 2016 but 2017 could be different.

The point is, if he was hassled and made to run faster throughout the race there is a real chance that his jumping will suffer, I'm not guessing at this because we have evidence in both the Neptune and the CH that when the pace quickened he made a dreadful mistake, imagine if he put those kind of mistakes in earlier, it is possible because as I say we have seen evidence to suggest it is possible.

If it does happen then he ceases to be the world beater many think he is and a whole host of horses come back into the picture....again, why were they so intent on sending a horse that stays 3 miles well racing at a relative crawl in a speed contest?? it's because their priority was to look after his jumping and they thought that the opposition was poor enough that the pace he does have would be enough to see them off.....if he was a good jumper he would have set a much much stronger pace.

We've seen this horse make 2 bad mistakes at the exact same point in the race under the exact same conditions for the first time in each race, he's a class horse for sure but the fact remains that when he has to race faster and jump quicker he's partial to guessing at them.....there's no way the opposition will let him get away with it next year and then we'll see.

I agree about the people bigging up P&C, I wasn't convinced before the Triumph but am now, he's such a lovely jumper and traveller, he came up the hill well after giving ground at the last and was value for more than the winning distance, I'd be amazed if he isn't comfortably 2nd fav going into next years race and at this moment I'd be with him....having said that, if MTOY's comes back hurdling and by some miracle of modern science doesn't pull anymore....he'd be my winner!

@duffy, I agree that he's not a good jumper but the faster pace would suit his jumping better(see the Christmas Hurdle where the only mistake came at the last where Ruby slowed him just before jumping it). With a slower pace, he's not very fluent at his hurdles(look at the 3rd hurdle in the CH) and puts in awkward jumps(see his Ascot run where it was visible that his jumping was worse the slower they went, and once Ruby asks him to speed before the last hurdle he jumped it really well).

I don't think Ruby considered this year opposition a poor one, quite the opposite I'd say and thats why he rode the race to win, not to win by big margins. His opposition, if he remains over hurdles, know that they need to take him on as late as possible(see McCoy post race interview where he said it was his fault for taking on the leader too early which cost him 2nd/3rd place), otherwise they will finish unplaced, or they could enter some pacemakers but Faugheen doesn't needs to lead and he'll sit just behind them and will most likely win by bigger margin.

Sectionals show(https://www.timeform.com/racing/Articles/Sectional_Debrief_Cheltenham_Festival_2015%2c_day_one) that they've lost 4 seconds from the 2nd hurdle to the 3rd and if we check the video replay we can see what an untidy jump Faugheen put in exactly at the 3rd flight where Ruby had set a sedate pace, so your theory of slower pace better jumping has some cracks. As for the 2nd last at Chelt. its a tricky hurdle and Mick Fitz predicted that he'll make the mistake exactly at that flight as bad jumpers usually get found in that spot and Faugheen as we know is not a good jumper, but that 2nd last had nothing to do with the speed they were going.

Don't really know what McCoy was saying as we know that Jezki wants an end to end gallop!, I'm just very interested in seeing a strong pace from end to end with horses around and upsides him, I'd be very surprised if he didn't make at least a couple more of those mistakes and remember they are not just ordinary mistakes are they, when he makes the mistake that he does it's as if someone has just plonked a hurdle in front of him, he completely guesses at it and horribly lands on his back legs....basically speaking, his jumping is his weakness, again, evidence shows that the approach this year from his opponents doesn't work, therefore they have to approach it differently.

Those incidents of his improved jumping that timtin points out isn't the same as I'm talking about, in those instances he still has plenty of room and time to organize himself, I'm talking about horses being around him and forcing it at every fence, yes he may be up to it, but it is definitely a potential undoing of him.

The other point I'd make with regards to the people who say that the faster they go the better his jumping would be, well, he isn't a good jumper so my question would be, why does it appear that connections didn't want to risk it, they obviously don't believe it and I think it was because they were very worried that his admitted stamina advantage would be negated by his flawed jumping.

At the end of the day they got it right!! they compromised one of his assets to accommodate a weakness in his armour and it worked, but there wasn't much room for error as he won by a fast diminishing margin, so it goes without saying that they'd want to improve his jumping so they are able to make more use of him next year through the race....just an opinion though.

I've read a lot of comments on here stating the reason Faugheen took the field along at the slow pace was because they were worried about his jumping, to me this seems unlikely as  he's gone a faster pace without making an a race losing error, so why all of a sudden would they think it would all go wrong this time, Walsh and Mullins don't strike me as pessimists!

For me the reason Walsh set a slow pace was to give the Fly the best chance of getting placed, if he'd of gone a quicker pace I'd find it hard to believe that he could of beat TNO or Jezki.

I think Jim McGrath made the relevant point about the horse. He's got a lot of speed. The fact they ran over further last year may give a misleading impression but he was simply the fastest horse in that race. So why shouldn't he set a pace to nurse him over his obstacles knowing full well that he could always account for his adversaries when the pace quickened?

We can argue till the cows come home but I suggest we let the facts speak for themselves. The taps really get turned on running downhill at Cheltenham and tht is when they are racing at their fastest. He's jumped four hurdles there (two last year and two this) and only one of these jumps didn't result in a significant mistake and at that time 9th third last)he was confortably in front.

Outside of that it is my contention that at all other times he has either been running within himself or he's been running uphill to the last which has allowed him to gather himself. If I had a horse good enough to have a chance in the race the very latest I'd be attacking Faugheen is going to the third last.

I think Douvan and Arctic Fire are more than competent to take his place, plus Annie Power could get a shot as well for the CH if Faugheen is out of the picture so I agree with you, if not now when he's 7 and he'll be 8 next season, then when ? Coneygree did it at 8 so its proof its still possible if Mullins will want to do it.. His father would've went for it :: "Years ago if you won a Champion Hurdle the temptation was to go over fences, like Dawn Run (trained by his father, Paddy), but it's not so common now. I have enough chasers, hopefully."... oh well times are the same but people changed...

There is not a hope in hell that Faugheen will ever jump a fence under rules. Buddeliea has it exactly right and it's the sensible option.

The only one that might go is Arctic Fire, I'd say the owners would be game but Willie wouldn't be.

Could mop up a lot of prizemoney in the graded 2 mile races in Ireland still and bar Peace & co the British don't look much so there is that too, but I'd say the owners know he will always come/be treated second to Faugheen.