The new one @ 2.5

suggest a price then mate...

Tricky considering his outright price so obviously can't be bigger than that! But I would say him and jezki should be the same price for a start, I'm not much of a layer but would defo say 6/4 is much to short I would say he should be least 5/2-3/1

I'll take some 3/1 without Faugheen

looks nailed on to place, but no value.

blackballed this is a nonsense post. to say that losing 6 lengths in the champion hurdle, stopping to at least half pace in a race run in record time would not have cost him his chance you are chatting nonsense. watch it back as you clearly haven't done so yet and your aimlessly crabbing the horse as many seem to do. he would absolutely have been in the finish without the tragic incident. failure to accept this is ignoring what is in front of your eye balls.

Just watched it again mate like I have umpteen times and it's all about opinions! At the top of the hill the new one is only a length behind my tent or yours he jumps the 3rd last not very well to say the least, then gets badly outpaced if you watch it yourself! That is plain to see I said he did get hampered but had plenty time to recover and was close enough well before 3 out if he was good enough! We will never know if he would have won without our conner falling but all we have is the video to watch back and I can see the same happen again badly outpaced between last 2 then running on to late in the day! It was the same in his last race bad ground I know but seemed to take forever to get upto speed and reel bertimont in! And if he can't go with jezki faugheen and mibee the fly then he won't be reeling them in! I might be wrong but il be sticking my cash on jezki to finish in front of him again!

As Ruby Walsh says....You just cannot afford to have that happen to a horse losing that amount of ground in a 2m championship race,it will affect his chances of winning no doubt.
We can all have our opinions,but when someone who actually knows what hes talking about speaks,may as well take notice .

was 2.5 lengths behind at the line

has to be a very good chance he would have been bang there at the line, either getting up by a half length or in a photo finish at least

saying it did not affect the outcome is plainly nonsense, you have to imagine how he might have run had the incident not happened

yes he got outpaced, but then stormed up the hill stronger than anything

crazy OP

A whole year and still going round the houses on this.
Anyone who backed TNO last year knew their money was lost when he got hampered.

The New One's hurdling has always been iffy at best but after the fall of Our Conor last year, he spent twice as long in the air as he needed to. He lost a length at every hurdle even after Our Conor's fall. I think to get as close as he did was a fair effort.

id accept his hurdling wasn't fantastic but i won't accept 'he had plenty of time to recover'. its the champion hurdle ffs!

Badly hampered yes jumping mistakes yes add them together means he had next to no chance of a win that day, but my main point really is that a lot of people thought after the race the only reason he lost was the fall of our conner but I thought it wasn't his sketchy jumping combined with being outpaced cost him just as much if not more! But like I have also said we will never know that's why were even talking about it now! Keeps it interesting till Tuesday anyway when some of us will be right and some wrong as well as richer or poorer that's why we love a gamble :)

I do know he lost more lengths when hampered than he was beat by. As this is a fact.

this is becoming ridiculous, the lengths lost so far out DON'T MATTER, what matters in horse racing is position and once you lose your ideal position or if your jockey doesn't place his horse in the right spot its all gone. What happened with TNO was unfortunate not due to the 10 lengths he lost, because it happened too far out, but he lost the ideal spot which would've seen him very close at the finish or even winning it.

Think of it this way, if Jezki had been ridden by any other jockey, we would've had another horse as champion namely MTOY, because BG placed him ideally and he didn't had any bad luck during the race.

We aren't talking here above way above their peers horses that can win regardless of their position and mistkes, we're talking about same kind of level of ability horses(admittedly top class but not outstanding) who can run at about the same form and they are separated by luck in running, positions, pace, etc. eg. look what happened with Fly in 2012, he should've won that race had Ruby kept him closer to the pace, then in 2014 he kept Fly too much in he heat and didn't left him any reserves at the business end, so Fly with the right tactics can go very close and beat them, just like Jezki and TNO.

The problem this year is that they're facing a potentially outstanding horse who doesn't need luck in running, can be ridden from anywhere in the race, doesn't care what the ground is like and doesn't gets hindered by any jumping mistakes, so unless he falls or doesn't turn up with his best form they're all be battling for places in behind.

point is that you can't count the lengths beaten with the lengths lost. period. Position is everything in a race and that's why TNO is not champion this year, its not simple math 2+2, its a lot more complex math mixed with physics, its horse racing.

As a backer of him last year I was 1 of the 1000s of people that said "He would've pissed in if he wasn't hampered"! I've watched the race s few times recently and at the top of the hill he was around 5 lengths behind the leader and by the time they turned into the straight he was about 8 lengths the Leaders. He was no closer jumping the last and only started gaining on them half way up the straight. He just lacks that immediate turn of foot to go with them when the pace quickens and it could very well happen again.

Anyone who ignores what Ruby says on this subject and argues against it is wrong imo.

Forget last year, he's got an even better defence to have to mount than that...namely his last run....now the ground....I couldn't give a toss whether he was trying to get through quick sand...that performance in relation to a potential CH winner was a big fat NO.

he,ll thrive on the ground duffy

Would have won last year imo,so between him and the unknown potential of Champion the wonder horse.

What about the known as in hurricane fly and jezki who have 3 titles between them? Never mind the unknown machine!

I think the fly will be no better than he was a year ago,and I think TNO is better than jezki and would have won last year but for the incident.
I do think the improving Arctic fire is intersting though and have him on my side at big odds.

The other major flaw in the new one is his record! Only won 2 grade one races and one of them a novice race 1 over 20f and the other over 21f is he improving enough at this stage to all of a sudden win one over 2mile?? With a few 2m specialist there and a few younger up and coming ones there? You would have to think not in the grand scheme of things! Overall record at this level says he will fall short again,not saying he definitely can't win but he looks majorly up against it and his last 2 wins leave him well short!

blackballed

jezki has lost 5 of his last 7 runs
fly has lost 2 of the last 3 champion hurdles he's ran in and faugheen hasn't beat any of the big 3 home yet.

you can pick at the form of all 4 of them its not difficult.

the new one proved himself champion hurdle class last season and hasn't lost since. don't be surprised if he wins.

No like I said not saying he can win but jezki pretty much had the same profile last year so not overly worried about the fly turning him over again at his favourite track don't think many would beat him there! So from that point of view jezki has been least racing against a top notcher! There won't be a lot between them both come the line and as in every sport it could come down to 1 sketchy jump or a we rub to decide who wins! I just think jezki and the new one should be closer in the betting than what they are now

good luck to newy cotswolds finest

Delighted and as I thought the new one would get badly outpaced at the nitty stage had jezki at an unreal 2.61 in a match bet :)

Simply beaten by a better horse.....it happens.
As did all of last years horses.