Irish Arkle

agreed howdi

11/8 with Betfair won't last 5 mins

those with vautour arkle tickets the bins over there.

Told you he was that good. Are we all believes now? Clarcam won a Grade 1 by 17 over course and distance, jumped very well and was destroyed by a proper superstar horse.

^^^^

Fair horse alright although kind of makes the Arkle boring now. Gilgamboa probably head for the JLT and Clarcam will be worse off again. If you're backing him, you're backing him to turn up.

Vautour for the JLT it is then. Think Gilgamboa will be bound for the longer trip too

No need for the gloating there CV.

SoYouThink • January 25, 2015 1:51 PM GMT
Fair horse alright although kind of makes the Arkle boring now. Gilgamboa probably head for the JLT and Clarcam will be worse off again. If you're backing him, you're backing him to turn up.

^^ Not qute cheltenham fences stiff and he has fallen.

That 11/8 lasted all of 2 mins!!!

Even if Vautour did turn up in the Arkle I doubt he'd live with him anyway.

I'll still be laying him at Cheltenham though at odds on...have to take the view that the better ground and stiffer test...gamble on a mistake etc, make odds on worth laying him that

Always seems to be a gap in the market for these 2m chasers so to speak. Ever since the Golden Era of 10 years ago. Master Minded came along, declined, then Sprinter Sacre came along. Now he has a question mark next to him and Un De Sceaux comes along. Hopefully he's able to sty sounder a bit longer than those.

wouldn't disagree Duffy. That said if he stands up can't see anything laying up with him.

Good point So You Think.

Can't wait to see him in the Arkle now. Racing is about horses like this.

still a few clutching at straws - going, Cheltenham fences...if this horse is sound and well, nothing will beat it in arkle - fingers crossed for a healthy 8 weeks ahead..duffy, good to see that this time your brain registers with what your eyes tell you

8 weeks, thought it was 6 weeks Tuesday

very impressive display.

Thanks for your concern Gordon..appreciate it.

He seemed to me to shorten his stride there last 100 yards or so but early on in the race he did allow RW to control him a little. All bodes well for the Arkle. He could really be a superstar and surely goes off odds on!

5/4 billys, wonder how long that will last, can't get out today, will it be there tomorrow doubt that very much though i did take a little bit of 2/1 yesterday.

Gilgamboa surely now goes for the J.L.T

they'll all be heading for the JLT, after that.

I'll be laying him at Cheltenham provided the race does not cut up. Bigger field, totally different track, exuberance and pace COULD be a recipe for a disaster. Odds-on it's worth the lay.

Gilgamboa still has a decent handicap mark

I personally think looking at todays evidence the queen mother would be winnable for uds.

vinnie_roe • January 25, 2015 1:58 PM GMT
they'll all be heading for the JLT, after that

sint...we're taking our lifes in our hands coming on here and saying that...Gordon already got me booked in for a brain scan...you'll be next mate

Yes talking about the QMCC all I can say is it's a pity he didn't go novice chasing last year!

I can't see the sense in laying him. Fair enough a tenor on something round 10/1 or 12/1 but laying him you're basically banking on something going, an injury, a mistake, bad luck really.

If you are going to lay him, place lay him. He gets beat if he falls, otherwise he wins I'd say.

7/8 runners max sintonian

I'm surprised he's still odds against/evens actually, considering he's just smashed two of his biggest rivals, and his Grade 1 winning stablemate will not line up against him now.

He is around the same price as Faugheen for the CH, and I know which one I'd rather be on out of the two.

short price favs at Cheltenham - not done well over the years.

I can see why the choice to lay him may be an instinctive one, being odd on in a novice grade 1 at the festival but... He's won 11 out 12 races (would have won the other but for a fall) and the opposition he's going to face on the day is no better than that he's already beaten (what were 2nd and 3rd favs in the Arkle today). He is well entitled to be much shorter than he is tbh, I'm talking nearer 1.5 on the day.

simonsig went off 2-5 from what i recall, wouldn't be surprised if race cuts up and this does similar.

Time for some e/w theft on Vibrato Valtat. Will be 7 or 8 runners.

I have no problem with folk saying they'll either today or in arkle itself because the game is about opinions.  what I do take issue with is nonsense like you said earlier about UDS being a hard puller - there is a world of difference between a hard puller and a front runner, if you're old enough you'll remember cauthen/cecil and scudamore/pipe cleaning up with front runners, they knew the horse was fit, got the trip so why take the chance of getting caught behind something, trapped on rail, brought down, unsighted etc etc

^^^ not a bad shout CV .

lay being the important missing word below!

GOOD POST WEE GORDON.

The race will cut up in my opinion. Gilgamboa will go to the JLT, Clarcam will be worse off at the weights and Josses Hill / Vibrato Valtat will probably run again, might even underperform. After that, what else is there? There will be no desire to go for this race now over the JLT.

strange people wanting to lay the horse after that performance...just beaten his main dangers...purely laying him on not getting round and tbh he jumped really well today and leopardstown takes some jumping

very strange

1.1 to be effective on better ground, 1.15 to jump round, 1.2 to beat the opposition... 1.5ish.

Ruby Walsh post race interview

He beat two good horse in Clarcam and Gilgamboa

We went a good honest gallop. It was a very fast honest pace.

He was very clever at the 2nd last.

He went a really good gallop.

People don't realise how stiff Lepoardstown actually is...people can be sucked into kicking for home far too soon.

Loved the way he quickened turning in and then galloped all the way to the line.

He doesn't stop, for a horse that goes so fast on the bridle he finds plenty off of it so there was plenty left in the locker when I asked him.

I love horses like him who are very forward...whatever they do they go forward. I like that. If he makes a mistake he still goes forward. He's so quick on his feet that he can just readjust. 

No reservations about going to Cheltenham but it's up to willie. a job well done. He hasn't been the easiest to train especially with his mindset.

He has the potential to be as good as Azertyuiop and Masterminded....he reminds me most of Azertyuiop with his free going style and how he attacks his fences.

I won't be laying him. Given that he wouldn't need room to manoeuve in a champ chase, as they wouldn't get near him anyway, i wonder ? He will go for the arkle no doubt, but you never know. Champagne Fever wouldn't get near him, and they are/were considering it for him.

I think it was generally accepted that for the first part of the race the horse had been a tad out of control with the jocks basically passengers...to back up the visual you could always ask walsh and geraghty who said the exact same thing.....pipe/scudamore etc comparison is nonsense because they chose to race they did...this horse gives you no choice.

I wont be laying him either, jumps very well.

Very impressive. He cuffed 2 good horses fair and square. Clarcam will probably take him on again, as there is good place prize money in the Arkle but can't see Gilgamboa in that race. The only thing that I can see beating him is himself....a race ending mistake or more likely, not being able to cope with the Cheltenham pre-race hullabaloo. No fears about the going - he is such a good mover he will probably be better on it!

Look forward to the spectacle. I won't be playing in the race.

Can't back him...way to short especially so early on in the Festival...mind you there's still 25 races to go but suffering a big loss so early....yikes.

flip side...he could jump the big ditch at the top of the hill big and bold 6 lengths clear with the others in trouble and you can green up right there and then.

hopefully we get 7 rivals and we can have a nibble at a Baily Green type eachway or w/o the fav.

It would be interesting if he goes for the QM...that would stir that race up big time!

Any stats men out there with front runners statistic in the arkle? Think its a very poor return? That being said I reckon only about 4 horses will line up against him.

Normally the proposition of a heavy odds on favourite puts me off but the run style of UDS makes the race far more interesting.

Still I'll be sticking with my VV each way as I'm not one for short odds.

Had a little bit on Vibralto Valtat to place at 4's - no point in doing a normal ew bet imo, because I think you'd be throwing away the win part.

As a few have said, could be a small field and top 3 in the place market at the moment.

Did I imagine it or was Nichols not very keen to run VV at the festival?

wellchief 25 Jan 15 14:22 Joined: 17 Dec 09 | Topic/replies: 2,012 | Blogger: wellchief's blog
Had a little bit on Vibralto Valtat to place at 4's - no point in doing a normal ew bet imo, because I think you'd be throwing away the win part.


I took e/w at 20/1 and will lay the win stake at sp. He won't be 20/1 on the day. So will get a 5/1 place bet and probably a free 8/1 win bet.

In his latest column Nicholls says VV goes to Warwick then the Arkle "all being well"

In his Betfair column about a week ago, after the novice chase declarations were made, Nicholls said VV would run in the Kingmake and then in the Arkle, unless something untoward happens.

Cheers lads. Thought I remembered him being against it a couple of months back but maybe I'm getting confused.

Cooper said he's never seen a horse leave him for dead so quickly after the second last. It's a sight to behold, Ruby lets him an inch of rein after the second last and the reaction is instant, he quickens. He's some horse, so exciting.

Absolutely fantastic.

As racing fans we should all relish this exciting front runner.

Just so relieved hes finally proved that he can do this against proven Grade 1 performers, as I always hoped he would.

Don't think ive ever been so nervous about a horse before a race with no cash involved either today or Cheltenham.
I have a few accas with him in,so that's good,but not really a betting race now for me.I have Jhill and Sgt Reckless to cheer on if they run......that's if they manage to get into the race!!,my other one Gilgamboa wont be running now,he got destroyed today.

To be honest I think its a race we should all sit back,watch and enjoy a bold exciting front runner.

After all we are all National Hunt enthusiasts.

UDS was the biggest unknown of my 6-fold antepost, he now removed all the doubts, hopefully Mullins doesn't screw me up like last year please God..

WOW. I agree with the sentiments about enjoying a committed front runner. Not a common site nowadays as jockeys seem to compete with each other to see who's the coolest. I can also see how folk were disappointed he didn't run in the champion hurdle but I guess you could also say he's been looked after and is showing all his ability now.

Very very good horse.
Also proved that he is controllable.
I wouldn't want to lay this one. Jumps well, stays and is fast.
Think it could be a very small field again this year with UDS heavy odds on.

Yeh,its something I mentioned before brandy.

The race itself in March would have been better off if Vautour had gone for the race today,and UDS had run in another lower grade race. We would then still have had the unknown about UDS, and the pressure to run Vautour in the Arkle would have been there.
So now, unless Vautour takes him on in the Arkle, which seems unlikely,we are looking at a possible rout.
And a small field as well.
We have to hope now that Josses Hill proves capable,and maybe VValtat.
The Irish challenge, that looked pretty strong before today, has gone.

You'd struggle to crab that performance.

S'pose it's always price dependent but I would n't generally look to lay a horse on basis that he might fall, not handle the track, not be as effective on better ground - you'd want to be making a case for one or two of the opposition to beat him and that's a struggle at the mo'

He could be less effective around the track and on better going and still win on the basis of what we've seen.

Mind, it's worth pointing out that the race Josses Hill won at Doncaster was the same one the Arkle no hoper Western Warhorse won last year.

UDS will not have to travel at breakneck speed, he will just have to tootle round like he did today and he will still win Arkle on the bridle.

Without doubt, the banker of the meeting, especially as a lot of his rivals will now run scared to the JLT

I think anyone putting Josses Hill up against UDS is clutching at straws. He looks like a giraffe and is an awkward jumper imo.

^
probably be handy at sticking his neck out in a photo though.

^ I would n't argue wuth that but you'd've said same about anyone putting WW up against Champagne Fever this time last year, merely highlighting that nothing is a foregone conclusion.

I'd quite like to see a Giraffe race over Arkle course and distance, would be an entertaining watch...

Yes Budd. As much as it will be good to see him at Cheltenham it would have been better with the unknown factor.

Anyway done now and this race for me is just a watching brief now.

Privileged enough to have been at Leopardstown today and totally blown away by that.

Was down near the last fence and, having backed Clarcam, was quietly optimistic at the second last. UDS then blew by me while Clarcam, who jumped and travelled beautifully, was punch drunk on the run-in. UDS absolutely annihilated two very good horses and to be honest, 4/5 is a gift for the Arkle. Josses Hill won't see which way this machine goes.

Lucky bu99er!!

Wish I was there today. Must've been some atmosphere.

UDS got a 171 RPR btw, "rating high enough to win 19 or last 20 Arkles".

WOW

Not surprised

i missed the race but i just watched the video and he pinged the last, his jumping was electric down the back straight and to beat Clarcam by that far giving him 10lbs was a fantastic performance. I have in a big single and decent treble with Douvan and Sprinter Sacre so all my fingers will be crossed he makes it to the festival in one piece. i was thinking that a rating of 170+ would be appropriate given the two horses he beat

i opposed him but you have to be impressed with that. gilgamboa made a mistake and couldn't cope when the pace lifted, and clarcam had no change of gear whereas UDS was cruising.

even when walsh went for him a bit on the run-in he visually moved further away from clarcam

RPR of 171? christ

the ONLY possible worry for me is what mullins said about being too hard on himself and taking a while to get over races. other than that what on earth beats him

Agreed - I thin yesterday was the Eureka moment some of us were waiting for. To be fair to others, they'd already had it. I thought he was magnificent.

UDS is definitely the real deal and don't think that is a debate now after this demolition job.

I did think that Gilgamboa stayed on quite nicely having made that mistake and almost caught Clarcam on the run in.  He will be a worthy contender in the JLT over 2 and a half miles.

timeform revised figure is 167p according to the ratings update, the handicapper said the time figure could have been a fair bit higher considering that it was 10 seconds quicker than the hanicap before hand.  They considered going 170+ with a p. Awesome performance

This year the big story came in the Irish Arkle. All three runners played their part in creating a race that produced what can be taken as one of the best novice performances in recent years. Un de Sceaux did his usual in going off in front, but crucially Clarcam (a 12-length winner of a Grade 1 last time) and Gilgamboa (won a Grade 2 by 24 lengths) tried to match him. That they couldn’t is arguably the best indicator yet of just what we’re dealing with in Un de Sceaux, who's been surprisingly hard to pin down for a horse that races with his heart on his sleeve.

Un de Sceaux is now rated 168p, which is exactly the same as his hurdles figure from last year. To see him jump you’d have no doubt that he’s already as able over fences as he was over hurdles. What’s even more impressive is that his figure requires no elaboration: even with the other two slightly below form, he has run to 168 without coming under anything like full pressure. Clarcam (146) and Gilgamboa (152+) may yet turn up in good novices this spring but it’s nigh-on impossible to see them beating Un de Sceaux on this evidence.

To rate the performance on clarcam alone is a tad on the iffy side imo, it all depends on how much you evaluate the form of his last time out win in that grade one. Had Vautour under performed? Has Clarcam improved?
Gilgamboa was exposed to be the 2.5miler that he is.

Not taking anything away from the performance, it was truly breathtaking and by beating them two horses he has beat approx 50% of his true opponents in the market currently however he aint no 2s on poke yet, the market is about right now.

I ain't a uds fan sts but the clock doesn't lie,Vautour beat Clarcam as easy 1st time out and as everyone on here knows I have backed Vautour,but you couldn't fail to be impressed with uds

I cant remember how Clarcam finished the race behind Vautour,but I know how he finished the race behind UDS.......completely legless......in a 2m race!!
When I was watching the race I thought to myself,he aint very far in front this time,better animals hes facing? well yes they were,but reason he werent so far ahead was probably a combination of Walsh managing to control him better and the others going quicker than they wanted. Certainly for Clarcam to finish in such a state suggests he went too quick anyway.
So now every race hes in over 2m,what the heck are the other riders gonna be thinking??

More I think about it the more I think I may not have seen a horse like it...........ever!!!

I just pray Sprinter Sacre can improve a ton and win the Champion Chase. I'd near die with excitement if we could have Sprinter of old vs Un De Sceaux.

The stuff that dreams are made of my friend.

"More I think about it the more I think I may not have seen a horse like it...........ever!!!"

If you meant a chaser its a long way till he achieves SS figures.. With the exceptional high standard of horses running presently I think we're forgetting who the true machine is. His chasing career was delayed for 1 year as his connections wanted to have a horse for the Champion Hurdle but I think we'll put UDS and other current impressive chasers in perpsective once `the machine` changes the code of racing next season.

I mean in the way he runs from the front getting good horses out their comfort zone,and his ability to go the speed he does from start to finish.

I mean in the way he runs from the front getting good horses out their comfort zone,and his ability to go the speed he does from start to finish.

I do need to ask fellow forumites this question, its burning me head. From just before the last Ruby starts to ride him out to see how far he can beat them two by, but 100 yds from the line his stride shortens. Was i seeing things? Need to watch again, for a 4th time. lol

looked to me like he was in 2nd gear, and the other 2 were in 4th the whole way. as soon as he went into 3rd it was race over....

Yep,looked like that to me as well,plenty left I thought.

Seeing things clearly though Ruby does nudge him after the last, think my worry wouldn't just be the obstacles, but the track also. I just wonder if the undulations the way he races might find him out as he does only have one way of racing. When a horse hits the wall it dont matter how good they are, they will stop running. Just hope and pray that he can allow himself to switch off enough to be able to get that final climb what found out CF last year and before anyone says i am not comparing the two.

After having backed him and planning on having committed to having more on him weekly until the last of any 4/5 goes i wonder if i am being guilty of trying to see dangers that arent there. I do expect him to go very short after the 17th however as Sprinter did before his Arkle as think the race will go from 45 entries to about 12. It will be then i think i probably will lay off about half of what i've staked. I will be the first to admit being a gutless bettor of horses haha, but then you already new that

SEATHESTARS....NO1 26 Jan 15 21:09 Joined: 04 Oct 09 | Topic/replies: 3,146 | Blogger: SEATHESTARS....NO1's blog
I do need to ask fellow forumites this question, its burning me head. From just before the last Ruby starts to ride him out to see how far he can beat them two by, but 100 yds from the line his stride shortens. Was i seeing things? Need to watch again, for a 4th time. lol

Ruby let him an inch of rein after the second last and probably gave him a squeeze as he left Clarcam for dead. He's still at full stride across the line and took a long way to pull up.

Even Tom Segal agrees. From tomorrows RP Arkle selection

"You would think he would have got tired on the run in at Leopardstown, which is a much stiffer track than many people think, but he was travelling as strongly at the line as he was at the start and barring accident he is going to win the Arkle"

Mullins also said of UDS, he's a bit stronger this year, but is not down to his ideal racing weight yet so there is more to come.

Nah,don't think so mate.Hes stayed ok over 4 furlongs extra on soft ground. Should be fine. To be honest I ain't even thought about that at all,not a worry as far as I'm concerned.

See Mullins said today that better ground won't be a problem for him.

Quite a few of us have thought he'd be better for better ground, he's so quick on his feet and he has a low stride he'd prefer better ground you'd imagine. But as they say the best go on anything. I don't think anyone is really saying he needs soft.

Ruby let him an inch of rein after the second last and probably gave him a squeeze as he left Clarcam for dead. He's still at full stride across the line and took a long way to pull up.



like I said 2nd gear


if he,d gone round in 3rd, god only knows........

Ruby Walsh said afterwards that the most surprising aspect of the race for him was that the others were able to lie up as close to him as they did.

Which means, we may be thinking they are not good rivals as they were dismissed so easily. But there lies the value, they probably are among the top 5 or 6 novices at 2m-2m4f in training.

I honestly think people should be clear that Clarcam (getting 10lb) and Gilgamboa are two very good novice chasers. That performance was sensational.

Firstly, I was blown away by that performance. I've got a decent amount on Vautour for the arkle and I have no qualms whatsoever about him going to the JLT now.

I didn't think he found that much when Ruby pushed him along which could mean he won't bound up the hill, but will probably be so far ahead by then that it won't matter