Peace & Co

Good one CV. Pleased for you (especially after some of the flak you've fielded on here).

His blog is a mess Pete, not accurate at all.

Great shout with P&C though.

Cheers all and well done to other backers.

Sint, at least I put effort into a blog. It was a mess at Cheltenham because it's impossible to go to the track, drink, go out and then decide what to post for friends to back when I'm on some horses antepost. Do I tell them to back the same ones I'm on big but are now short etc..

Also, saying my blog is not accurate is calling me a liar, you've been constantly having digs at me for forever. Give it a rest please ffs. As ever, I post screenshots of everything I've bet on. So please pour over them all to the penny and then come back and call me "inaccurate" or what you mean is a liar. If you don't like my blog then don't read it.

That's a good point and bit me on the bum this Cheltenham CV. It would have been a very profitable Cheltenham for me had I gone with my gut and backed ante post but the ones I liked were in the care of Mullins and so I faced exactly that quandary on the day and couldn't bring myself to back at short odds horses which you could have argued were over bet prior to the races and which were far bigger ante post. Peace And Co dug me out of a hole thankfully.

Yes CV, I mean a liar. Please answer the question about Faugheen which you have avoided..

When you spammed it all over the BF forum I read it but shall no longer.

At the end of January, when Peace and co was 2/1 and under, I was slagged off by CV Byrne for suggesting I'd get 4/1 on the morning of the race. Well waddayaknow! Just shows how crap the ante-post market is nowadays.

I agree re antepost market. I was straight into PAC after Donny performance but may as well have waited til the morning of the race. The other problem is 2nd guessing which races horses will end up in - Mullins horses, coneygree, etc.. I got lucky this year with a 33-1 bet on faugheen for churdle after Neptune win, but I'm struggling to see any antepost value for next season and doubt I'll place many antepost bets from now on..

33/1 after the Neptune win!!! where did you get that too

on the exchange after his neptune win when mullins/connections were suggesting that he was going chasing. I just couldnt believe that. For me it was obvious that Vautour would go chasing given the quality of his jumping (especially compared to Faugheen's jumping).

Well considering Faugheen won a p2p you have some foresight to think the CH was gonna be his number 1 option after his Neptune win.

It was that p2p and his win in a 3m hurdle in a bog that stopped me from betting on him in the neptune! But, given the time he posted in that Neptune and the fact that he bulldozed some of the hurdles, I was convinced he would continue over hurdles and V would go Arkle (though luckily i didnt bet on V for the arkle). I also assumed that Hurricane Fly would either be retired or no longer challenging so team mullins would need a new flag bearer for the churdle.

I should say that the bet was actually 32.5 on the exchange and i bet the grand total of .. £2 on it, but it gave me more ammunition for the rest of the fez!

what i would like to hear is thoughts on whether PAC could put it up to Faugheen in a CH or whether they might be tempted by the chasing route (5 yr olds have won the arkle)..??

I see Peace and co as a solid champion hurdle horse. He got blocked at an awkward time but Barry was still able to ride him for a turn of foot after the last.

It wasn't an our Conor type performance, but I think that he would've won by a greater margin if he had been left to bowl along in front

Our Conor style performance it wasn't, but the race had much more depth than two years ago. That combined with his keenness and the ground probably not suiting, I'd happily rate that a mid-to-late 150's performance with plenty room for improvement to come.

I wasn't convinced by him going into the festival but although not claiming him to be a superstar and despite the narrow margin I am now a fan and think that he would be no forlorn hope in next years CH.

I was having kittens watching the race as I had Peace And Co at 25/1 and Top Notch at 33/1. LOL

PAC's OR is 155 while Our Conor was given a mark of 150 for his triumph effort, i think that means that PAC has achieved highest rating post triumph ever(?), it is also better than Faugheen's mark for neptune win... so could be a crackerjack CH next year!

@Harvester we'll only see later this week(Wednesday presumably) how the official handicapper rates Peace and Co, as for OC he was rated 161 for the Triumph and Faugheen 155 for his Neptune.

Peace and Co still looks so raw, he met trouble again when boxed in but he was travelling so well. Geraghty held onto him until after the last and then he dug it out. But he really is a horse they need to use his big stride and his jumping. He doesn't have a quick change of gear, he builds up to get to top speed. I think he's one who needs to be let go to the front 3 out and fully pour it on from there. I think he will improve a lot over the summer and might not be one who is at his best until he's 6yo.

He's a really class horse and I'm a huge fan. :)

sorry i was reading the OR's the wrong way round!

completely agree CV. I think he would be better off up front. I was getting nervous during the race because these top races can be frenetic and present a lot of trouble. Mullins/Walsh seem to have developed this method to perfection, not to mention coneygree!

CV, do you think they'll be tempted at all to put him over fences?

sintonian 14 Mar 15 15:14 Joined: 21 Sep 04 | Topic/replies: 25,871 | Blogger: sintonian's blog
Yes CV, I mean a liar. Please answer the question about Faugheen which you have avoided..

I didn't see any question as I've not been on here during Cheltenham. I really had no idea I'd placed any bet on Faugheen, I've been told I placed it in the pub on Sunday in October. I place a lot of antepost bets and when I do the big compiling of bets in the run up to Cheltenham I often find a few bets I can't remember ever placing. It happens, I'm sure it's happened to most people.

I ask you what am I supposed to do when I find a bet I don't remember placing? I am putting all my bets up on my site, screenshots of everything prior to Cheltenham. It was only a £50 bet @ 4/1, hardly relevant to my profit now was it. He was 2/1 for a time on the day.

All the horses I sung high praise of I had 150 or 200 on.

It's quite easy for you to have a pop at me, but I cannot be more transparent than posting all my screenshots of bets prior to racing. If you want to focus on a that one bet I forgot I placed as a way to have a dig at me, there is nothing I can do about that. It was my mistake. But I'm sure a good few others respect someone putting effort in to put their entire betting season up online warts and all.

I've no interest in spending time arguing with people on here. I really do just want to discuss horse racing and improve as a bettor.

All the best Sint

I think Hargam on good ground would give him a real tough race, and wouldn't be surprised if he beat him. But then, I don't think P and C had his optimum conditions in the Triumph either.

A couple of good Champion Hurdle prospects and both still very inexperienced.

I wouldnt be giving up on Nichols Canyon for next years CH just yet, if only they'd swapped him and Shaneshill, but that's the beauty of hindsight.

I read Henderson say he won't go over fences for a few years. "He's not a 5yo chaser" he said. So he seems certain to stay over hurdles and if he doesn't go close as a 5yo in the Champion Hurdle, he may go over fences then

Wellchief. Do you not think NC needs soft ground? Wouldn't be keen on him at Chelts on the average Festival going myself tbh.

Possibly CCM.  If he was beaten comfortably in the Supreme I'd probably agree, but I personally put it running in the wrong race.  I know Ruby talked him up as a stayer, but imo should have been in the Supreme (didn't back him for either Chelt race by the way).

Not thinking of backing him or anything, and he could even end up in the World Hurdle next year, but I'd personally like to see him in a Champion.

Couldn't agree more about that. As my 20/1 and 16/1 voucher for the Supreme will testify

Glossy 13 Mar 15 19:48 Joined: 22 Feb 09 | Topic/replies: 19,293 | Blogger: Glossy's blog
Well done CV. Still not convinced that he's the "monster" you claim him to be but he's certainly a good tool and there are plenty of good races to be run with him.

I have to agree with that a little bit. I really felt he'd be utterly top drawer in winning his next 2 races after he won at Donny. But he's only had 4 career runs in his life. Where Our Conor had come off the flat and beaten a much weaker field. Katchit had also raced on the flat.

Peace and Co will really improve for a summer given his tall frame. He also raced green in the Triumph, he always wants to go quicker than they are going, if Faugheen gave him a lead at a strong gallop he'd love it in the Champion Hurdle. For me Peace and Co just looked like a horse with an abundance of raw talent that needs to be trained and matured.

If he could settle better he could be let loose further out like I said below. Settled in for the first half of a race then let him wind it up after that as his jumping is a supreme asset.

He's a horse who proved he stays the distance of 2 miles 1 furlong on soft ground on the new course at championship pace but his two strongest assets are his tactical speed and jumping. Faugheen's asset is his tactical speed but his achiles heel could be jumping. They can't allow Ruby to dictate next year and if it looks like he is going to line up at the front unopposed then I'd argue he needs P@C right there taking a half length out of Faugheen at his hurdles and making that horse run quicker than he wants to go thus committing him to making jumping errors. I doubt they will need to do that because al the other trainers say that the only time Faugheen made a mistake was when he was harried going to two out.

In short don't lose the faith CV. This horse is exactly what we said he was

In short don't lose the faith CV. This horse is exactly what we said he was

Sorry about that. I meant to add at the end that he hasn't had the ideal opportunities to show it in his last two races but those conditions will come again.

I agree about tactical speed in the sense that if Geraghty sees a gap the horse can move through it as he will instantly respond to being given an inch of rein. But when given his full head and asked to accelerate I think the jury is still out. He has a lovely stride but does he have an injection of pace like say Hurricane Fly did in his youth when ruby could grab 2 or 3 lengths off the home turn. I agree on better ground on the old course he may be able to show a turn of foot he didn't get the chance to as he was a little keen in soft ground against a tough rival in Top Notch.

I think that's as far as he wants to go on that course and thus when he lets him go after the last he hasn't looked electric. I think he'd have been taking a chance letting him go after two out on that ground but I do think had he been in a position to do so you'd have seen a turn of foot at that point. If he turns up at Aintree I look forward to seeing if I'm right.

I don't know about anyone else, but when I watch the replay it feels like he's `floating` on the ground not running, maybe thats because he's enjoying soft ground which is what he ever encountered in his career or is simply that he's doing things very very easy and could have a huge performance in him, we'll only know which one once he'll race on proper good ground. If he again shows signs of `floating` or moving effortlessly on good ground then he's obviously a monster and will be a live contender for next year CH.

CV, post your bets up, warts and all, is no different from what other folks do on the thread in the other section, but with one huge difference, we do not have power of moderation. It's easy to have a pop at someone when they make it easy, btw. The Faugheen thing reeks to me but other people who don't bet quite so seriously won't have any qualms with it.

* posting

I'll be joining the thread in the antepost forum next season. I already stated I was doing that.

But you do accept sending a tweet is much easier than having to get on here while a price is still available on something you've just backed. While also being far more accessible to others than the thread on here. While it's also time stamped and easy to check on oddschecker if the price was correct at the time.

Ttt

form of the race looks a bit suspect atm.

Can't believe this lad isn't been talked about more, don't think he'll beat Faugheen but if there is one horse capable of beating him then he's the only one who can imo, if he settles he's an absolute very without Faugheen.

My slip on him is slowly going towards shredder,too many issues with horse and trainer imo.
And even if does settle better dont think he will be beating Faugheen.
Just hope wins his sure to be mickey mouse prep race, and shows up on Tuesday.

I think horse is great but I've got issues with trainer.

Agree on the trainer, also last years juvenile form isn't looking up to much and the run in the International was just horrid. Hopefully he'll settle better in the Contenders (if he turns up of course, ol' seven brandies could find some other reason not to run him) as it'd be good to have at least once half decent home challenger (TNO will do well to finish in the first five imo and they should have a bash at the Stayers).

I'd sooner have AF, IT, TNO and NC than go near P&C, especially at the prices.

Yeah I'd tend to agree, as it stands I'd be with IT in the w/o Faugheen mkt.

On a line of form thru Top Notch, I think Henderson would be fairly confident of P&C beating Identity Thief.

Contenders Hurdle been reopened on Saturday? Only race on the card with no entries so looks like it, another small field for PAC then (if it's running).

Decs out 9 run, Sempre Medici again against P&C but I can't see a pace angle, maybe Ravin Black ? Why the hell didn't Hendo entered Top Notch, give him a good lead and do a rehearsal for the CH?? as things stand P&C'll need to get out in front with the probability of doing too much again.. I don't know what is Hendo thinking?

Even money for this weekend! Couldn't touch him with a barge pole after last time!

I was thinking the exact opposite tbh blackballed... NJH seems to be running into form, that run should have knocked the freshness out of him. Poor field. Looks a 1-2 shot to me! Very happy with Evs

Whatever his price is at the weekend, I am hoping for a big run.

Baked him ages ago when Skybet went 14/1 for one day only.  I really want his price to dip below that so I can get rid of the bet on here.

Nothing in his form says Champion Hurdle winner to me.

what form @chief? Hendo has kept all his class hurdlers(MTOY P&C) locked and hosed with only 1 outing this term. Its either a good plot or a very badly executed plan. Of course now that F destroyd the next two in the market its easy to say P&C form doesn't look CH winner but everything in P&C juvenile form, including his Timeform rating of 161, pointed towards a high 160 low 170 horse in the making. If thats the case he'll be a real contender. MTOY will hopefully be out the following week, if he shows similar form just short of 170 rated of when breaking the CH time record then he'll also put up a good fight. He also has TN who isn't of that quality but could go out in front and set up the race for P&C and MTOY and will put them right in the mix to challenge F 2 out.

The form on the track that he has shown thus far tim.

I am drawing a line through his last run, but there were no positives in it.  His juvenile form looks nothing special to me now: Hargam beaten each time (admitadly not that far behind TNO last time, but TNO is pretty exposed), and Top Noth looks an admirable sort, like an Oscar Whisky or Thousand Stars, but I think he is a below Champion Hurdle class.

I think everyone has got slightly carried away with his Doncaster debut (this thread is testiment to that) as next time out he only beat Karezak 3 lengths.

I may well be wrong, but if I can get that £20 back on him, I'll be made up, as I'd rather reinvest it somewhere else.

Top Notch and Hargam haven't progressed much so why should we just presume P&C will. That Triumph form is really looking sub-par right now. And MTOY after a 2 year layoff?

Timtin - If my memory serves me right you were Faugheen's biggest fan (i was a non-believer) last year. I can't believe you think P&C or MTOY will have a chance against him now. If anything he a better horse this year, especially his jumping.

yes I think I was the only Donny detractor on here but later showings proved he was worthy of a 160 figure and that as a juvenile so if accounting for improvement and if he was allowed to race more this season I'm sure we would be in the high 160s by now. TN and Hargam did the form no harm in coming close 2nd in the Fighting Fifth and 3rd in the Christmas Hurdle. Thats the thing though, Hendo didn't allowed him any racing and he'll arrive in the CH -depending if he wins on Saturday- with very little experience but if he does perform well this Saturday he has that potential of reaching high figures.

Top Notch is very closely matched with Identity Thief (and Nichols canyon thru this horses next run). Ask anyone from Henderson's and they would confirm P&C would wipe the floor with Top Notch on good ground as its on another level. It wont beat Faugheen (but nothing will probably!) but in the W/O market it will surely get you a return and go close!

PS - Hargam doesn't have the scope of P&C but will be seen to much better effect on better ground. To go so close in the Bula on soft ground was a great effort and is another who could squeak a place in the W/O market if things fall right

@maelduin I still am, but my theory has always been and I hope the race will be run in such manner that not only will be in Hendo best interest( regarding MTOY or P&C) but also and more importantly in Faugheen interest as that'll allow him an official 180+ figure, which I personally think he already achieved in the Irish CH but all the handicappers took a highly conservative view and only awarded 176-177. Without anyone forcing the pace and playing for second placing then Faugheen will again not look impressive, although last year he looked that way because he came with no prep but also because Ruby made it tactical in early stages.

that'll allow him an official 180+ figure, which I personally think he already achieved in the Irish CH but all the handicappers took a highly conservative view and only awarded 176-177

Yes i agree they were holding back somewhat. The impression on Ruby face after that race was priceless. Another aggressive ride like that and the 180+ will be official in the CH.

PP seem to think sempre medici wont turn up saturday, now 8/15 from evens

so should have a nice toe round behind rayvin black on saturday

County Hurdle next?

Fakenham I expect

Has it trained on I wonder?

I'd worry about the fella training him tbh.

Same here full of bull-hit imo.

Frustrating run, can only hope better ground and a proper pace see's it to show more of its true ability. Probably run to about 151 yesterday, needs to improve another stone to get a place but time running out

Looked to me as if something was niggling him when Jacob got after him, but to be fair has always looked a bit of a bridle ponce,
Would still fancy him to be placed in the CH tbh, blistering gallop, he'll travel like a dream and throw down a challenge to Faugheen but to no avail as he's chimed in the final stride.

He might place in the CH ... if he starts running in the Supreme!

I agree with you about placing in Champion Hurdle,CheltenhamRoar.Too much of a task for him to win it this year but on totally different ground,and at proper racing pace in a decent sized field he'll come alive again...can't see him being quite as close as you do but at the present price and NRNB he is a cracking e.w  bet if they let him run.

The word from the stable is that he is becoming increasingly difficult to train, not a professional at all.
There was no stable money for it on Saturday, as they just don't know how fit they have him these days.
I wonder if fences, next season obviously, might make him buckle down more. Either that or a switch of stable as they're at a bit of a loss at 7Bs.

the latest update from trainer was by far and away the most downbeat i have heard from him - i sense he has all but given up on this year - i wonder if they shouldnt change tack (excuse the pun) entirely and try and see if they can turn him into a stayer on the flat

I think it is best not to rush his return certainly not for Cheltenham otherwise more pain for supporters; it is evidently clear something is affecting his ability as a racehorse, but the good thing is he's only a 5 yr old (6 in March).

Following his run on Saturday we have been looking at Peace And Co’s respiratory and although there is not a whole lot to see or hear, we feel cauterizing his pallet, which is a fairly straight forward procedure – without the need for a general anaesthetic – would benefit him.

That procedure is being performed this morning and only necessitates a short period of rest, which will not affect his intended participation at the Festival.

Nicky Henderson

Feel a bit sorry for the horse. Not his fault the Triumph Hurdle form was over-rated and the balloon has been burst.

Don't worry Autocue the horse can't read this

Clutching at straws.
It runs with the choke out and isn't fit enough to see out it's races. However, after not being able to identify whether it's breathing was a problem, they're going to crack on and do an op anyway

case of nothing to lose DO - sooner or later'wind op' was always going to become a euphemism for 'dont know what else i can do' - they will be so common place soon that it will be difficult to decipher between those done out of genuine need and those out of desperation - just another puzzle for us to solve

Do you know what just made me laugh P&C is 6 on the Sportbook without Faugheen!!!!!!!!

If only wind ops had been known about when old Quixall Crossett was around - with clean wind he'd have won a Gold Cup or two without a shadow of a doubt!

I will not be giving up the faith on this horse just yet,
Granted he's been poor this season but he's had excuses,
Breathing op (since last run) better ground and guaranteed fast pace will be right up his street,
At fancy prices he's well worth a few bob, wouldn't be surprised were he to p!ss up or pull up, but at the prices I'm very much willing to find out

win only then? Think its possible but sometimes horses just don't improve or come back with the same form in a new season.. Top Notch is way ahead on last year form, he improved while P&C not only regressed but is also too inexperienced for this event

no longer untrainable and possibly heading to Imperial Cup.

and then County Hurdle if the plan works out presumably

Love this horse to pieces but once a loon, always a loon.

And with 8lbs less , a bout of pneumonia and a wind op .

could be a wait for 2 furlongs and bet it horse

We're in the know now,but don't tell anyone else.We'll take the first price any bookie offers on the race.The when it shortens,we'll tell everyone else we're on.This is just the best plan ever

ha

According to Henderson pneumonia has made a man of him

nice gallop with brain power and josses hill seemed too settle o.k  Imperial Cup next and possible county double

ok we seen it on tv,but dont tell anyone else and we will take those darn bookies to the cleaners

Which then, ok koral or notts county?

I would suggest the shorter trip. He was never short of pace.

Trainer confirmed he was getting Champion Hurdle entry days before initial entry stage, then he was missing from entries, which was strange, so I wonder if he had another setback?? If he was back to his "best" surely they would be considering supplementing him for Champion

Would surely have absolutely no chance in the County.

Last ten winners have all been rated in the 130's. P&C currently 157.

Thought it said 149 CCM ?

Does it Paulo? Apologies, hadn't looked at his revised rating, just his previous one.

Decent drop then, but still looks way too high for the County.

His current official rating is 149 paulo yes....the price he'd have to be for any sane person to back him!!

if they go for the Imperial Cup, it's surely more likely to be the County solely because there's 6 days between them instead of 4.

I think I read somewhere the bonus is back in play this year.

If he runs in the Imperial Cup and does n't win - even if he runs well - I doubt he'd run at the Festival, given how long he's been off.

I'd love him to realise his potential but as some have subtly pointed out he is almost certain to be artificially short the first time he runs because the world and his wife are aware of Henderson's comments.

just realized he's only entered in the County Hurdle, not entered in Coral Cup.