ballycasey schooling

best rip up my rsa bet then

Your'e alright bud. Fitz says while its not a positive, it's not a negative either

that's ok then

Quite a nasty fall with the horse bleeding at the mouth. Not sure it was wise to remount and take another jump. Horse must be sore.

says it as it is fitzy !

Betfred pushed their price out....

I liked fitzgerald OK as a rider but he doesn't half talk a lot of mince.

was the fall really that bad if he remounted and jumped another fence????

I havnt seen the footage....

wasn't a horror fall by any means, sprawled himself and slid along the ground, he got up straightaway and jumped the next fence on his own.

thing is alleged the horse has had limited experience in mainly small fields and with the likely bigger field rsa and hustle and bustle its not ideal ,very nice horse and could still be anything just not what you want 8 days before the festival .

The horse looked quite keen going into the fence and kind of slipped on landing.. he then got up and flew the next, after they caught him Ruby jumped back on and jumped the last. Other than the bit tongue he doesn't look that bad. the only thing is now though is will he be running free in the RSA and end up on the deck like Boston Bob did last year. shame he didn't manage to get one more run in before Cheltenham.

Didn't think it was a bad fall personally, looked like mixed messages between horse & jockey, trying to get him to slow down a bit, seemed to change his mind about take off and sprawled on landing. Still, not ideal though.

thanks for the replies

so a jockey cant remount in a race because its decided they arnt the best person to judge a horses conditionmbut even with a bleeding mouth its alrite for ruby to hop back on and away we go,. com

their were discussions going on before Ruby remounted,he then popped 1 fence and that was that.

Not at all dramatic.

I would think this sort of thing goes on in every training yard on a regular basis.

Various opinions on the fall but if a vet had looked at the horse it would not have jumped another fence.

thought it was quite a pearler myself

Bolux

The rules on remounting were changed because Jockeys including Ruby Walsh had in the past, remounted injured horses and were deemed not the best judges of a horses condition after a fall. Now from some posts it seems that it is possible to view fall on TV and decide the horse is fine. Please note that a fall does not have to be dramatic to cause injury. If the horse had fallen again after remounting there would have been an outcry. Still a possibility that the horse will not be fit to run soon and therefore the risk to jump another fence should not have been taken.

Not seen it but a bit surprised he fell schooling. Jumped super in the Moriarty and he would have been schooling slower than in a race.

Then you need to watch it FF. The horse was pulling Ruby's arms out trying to go too fast - ruby was thing to rein it back it in but he was having none of it.

As long as the horse is ok this may be no bad thing. Horse learnt a valuable lesson today and some much needed experience

In Ireland the remount rules don't exist in a race don't they? Thought it was a BHA rule

The schooling fall is now on youtube - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KttR-Il60L8

after watching it, you,d have to think he,s having a break and maybe missing another festival, all he,ll be doing in the next week is swimming and on the walker


another antepost down the pan......

cmacedin
02 Mar 14 19:31
Joined:
15 Jan 05
| Topic/replies: 40 | Blogger: cmacedin's blog
The rules on remounting were changed because Jockeys including Ruby Walsh had in the past, remounted injured horses and were deemed not the best judges of a horses condition after a fall. Now from some posts it seems that it is possible to view fall on TV and decide the horse is fine. Please note that a fall does not have to be dramatic to cause injury. If the horse had fallen again after remounting there would have been an outcry. Still a possibility that the horse will not be fit to run soon and therefore the risk to jump another fence should not have been taken.SO HOW MANY HORSES HAVE YOU SCHOOLED THEN AND KEEP YOUR FORIEGN LAWS TO YOURSELF

I didn't think it was an awful fall Alleged to be honest - more skidded along the deck than landed with a great thud.

Don't get me wrong, it's less than ideal but the horse will already be 100% fit and there's a week and a half before he races. He got up straight away and pinged the next one - just minus ruby!!

No big deal remounting if the horse is ok. Just some do-gooders in UK got the rules changed just like they have ruined the Grand National.

soz tory im all over this horse for the festival, but it won,t happen now imo,

I hope im wrong

So am I - 36.0 on here, 33/1 SJ, 390/1 with Faugheen EW.

Even before today I was extremely dubious about its chances due to not having had 3 chase starts and a general lack of experience. I do still think it will run though as really didn't think it was all that bad a fall

Absolutely nowt to fret about.
He had a fall schooling. It Happens.
Hes jumped fine in his races thus far.

Had a look at the clip on youtube. Horse was very fresh and defo tried to cart Ruby going into the fence. Hope he's all right but suspect they won't properly know until this morning.

He's my main antepost bet and I wasn't too concerned about that tbh.

Think that is putting a brace face on it tbh. He was under prepared anyway and what happened yesterday just tells you why. It's instances like this that bring back memories of all the other inexperienced chasers WPM has sent into Grade 1 company only for them to fall. MDH, Flat Out, Boston Bob. Really don't see how this is not a ibg concern for the RSA favourite. Will his jumping hold up over the last two fences at Cheltenham over a trip he's never been tested at?? Shocking price for me.

*brave face I mean

brace face sounds like something you called the kid at school who was having orthodontic treatment done

Only positive I can give from the incident is that Rule Supreme fell in his home gallop before the festival but still managed to win the RSA for Mullins. However, he had 8 previous chase starts and a bucket load more hurdles experience. Ballycasey doesn't even have that in his locker. He'll have to be very good to take down some solid looking RSA types in this race.

looked like he attempted to "hurdle" the fence and just caught the top. Fine for an experienced chaser and very exciting to watch.... but this horse only had 2 chase starts and if does that at Cheltenham, will be flat on his face again

it was interesting the difference in the workouts of champ fever and ballycasey , cf left to lead with nothing keeping him company up front given a nice easy lead and jumped well ,shortened when needed to and perfect on a stride  a nice confidence booster  ,compared to ballyc who was tracking just behind boston bob with another horse  close up! in the main ballyc jumped well but it was noticeable that when ruby pushed him up between boston and the other horse and the 3 were virtually in a line jumping the fence that is where the mistake happened ,obviously connections keen to get ballyc jumping with company as he will almost certainly have company for the lead in a biggish rsa field probably run on a decent surface  at a good clip, he may be good enough to win but the lack of chasing exp may be against him .

rule supreme fell the same, pre cheltenham and won the rsa...not ideal and didn't pick his feet up at all to my eye...still should of learnt from it...

however punters won't be so confident now and i can see a price about him come the day after this, it can only have a negative affect in regards to the market

It was a bad error for me, the horse put down and went straight through the fence. He had jumped very well up to then though, and maybe he will learn from it. I wouldn't be tearing up your tickets just yet, but if he does anything like that coming down the hill at Cheltenham  going twice as fast - eek.

decalec response

SO HOW MANY HORSES HAVE YOU SCHOOLED AND KEEP YOUR FOREIGN LAWS TO YOURSELF.
Well, not easy to respond to this. No concern about any laws, foreign or otherwise, but concerned about a possibly injured horse. Regarding your question. I have not schooled any horses. I take it that bars me from expressing an opinion.

I'm not 'putting a brave face' on it at all Sint. Would have no issue saying I am gutted by it and think I've done my dough.

Schooling falls happen all the time. The horses inexperience is a much bigger issue than this fall. But I knew that anyway when I backed him.

I have backed him and am not too perturbed about the fall, so long as he's not stiff and sore afterwards. It might well have taught him something and I was delighted to see him measure the last fence fine under Ruby a few moments afterwards. If he is A1 in terms of physique, I might go in again at the inflated price as I think he's comfortably the best horse in the race.

record of horses who fell on their last racecourse "start" before the RSA in last 10 years:

year    horse name    pos    sp
2004    Liscannor Lad    6    150/1
2005    Backbeat    P    16/1
2005    Comply Or Die    2    3/1
2006    The Listener    F    6/1
2007    Mossbank    13    66/1
2007    Cailin Alainn    F    13/2
2009    Hold Em            P    66/1
2011    Quel Esprit    F    20/1

are you trying to say this has relevance to ballycasey pedro??

shush harry, trying to catch a few fish 

Tuesday is Guineas entry day....

you may well do

money for kingman i see pedro, you must be pleased

Tom,
I too think hes the best horse in the race,and agree that if hes physically fine,then his price is an overreaction to something that is not uncommon.
I would think hes learned a bit from that,and the way he jumped the next fence on his own,instead of not jumping it was a good sign for sure.He then popped one fine with Ruby.
Not bothered in the slightest.

Fair do's Budde, CCM. May the best horse win and everything has a clear round of jumping.

Cheers Sint. Lets hope so mate.

I know hes a tad inexperienced, and jumping could be an issue, but betting on novice chases has that element, and I guess we all have to accept that.

ballycasey out to 8.2...real shame if he didn't run

Mullins seems happy with him from what ive just read.
Why should he not run??

drifting quite alarmingly now...make what you will imo

maybe somethings happened since the comments??
maybe people overeacting to his mishap schooling??

Guess we will find out soon.

Has the drift not been quite steady since he fell on Sunday?

drifting alarmingly? he's 7-1 on here from 6s or have i missed something?

I knew WPM's record with novice chasers wasn't great but I just read his last 7 runners in the RSA failed to complete.

Rumours the horse is out now and the market doesn't look encouraging

gutted if he is out and it looks like he is. gutted.

Why does it look like he's out? He has been around 8 to back all day.

market isn't too drastic I suppose. I think he was too short for what he has done and with that little fall suppose he was gonna drift anyway. So I still hope for a run.

He's not out. Patrick Mullins on twitter 3 hrs ago saying all is OK etc.

When I looked about 10 mins ago he was 8.2 to back and 19 to lay with only offers at 25 and 40 waiting behind that. Couple of rumours on twitter all ain't well too I'm hoping its just that

WPM was quite upbeat in his assessment post schooling fall. Non story IMO, and sure he will be fine. In fact, looks a bit of value now IMO.

I seen that too happyhibee the lays have calmed down now thank god.

what went wrong last year? Blood analysis official reason he was withdrawn I believe but rumours of him traveling badly.

Although I seem to recall Sizing Europe suffering transit fever one year and then coming back and cleaning up the next.

One of those horses who, if you've backed him, you're gonna be nervous until you see him in the parade ring.

Fair assessment Rease.

Did Sizing win 1 year after the lights went out in the CH or was it 2 years between?

just checked, won the Arkle in 2010 the year after he was pulled out of Champion Hurdle with transit fever

Was he pulled up in the champion in 08?

...having run a stinker in 2008 Champion Hurdle - think he hurt himself that day though.

finished 14th of 15 in Katchit's Champion Hurdle, torn muscles in his back.

Anyway, that was then and this is now, hope Ballycasey makes it without any more hitches.

Yeah think official explanation was burst a blood vessel

Yeah think official explanation was burst a blood vessel

Sizing Europe was tanking at the top of the hill before he went wrong, would have hacked up in the 08 champion hurdle

yes, injured his back to the point it stopped him dead.

Dodgey prices floating around now.

Fragile horse. Missed last year and going to miss this year as well.  All change in the Mullins chasers plans?

hes same best price now as he was this time yesterday,just drifted a tad on here,thats all.

Not looking too strong on the machine

Which Mullins horse will run instead of Balleycasey?

None because he will run - people going back through the race and realising he was too short in the first place.

This is a seriously wide open renewal, to the extent where I have 4 on side. Got Bally and DC at very good prices so been able to trade nicely but this race is a real puzzle this year. Just discounting all French breds, those who haven't run this year and then just placing covers

Tory its coming trust me i have traded out .
The writing is on the wall.

What's coming? 8 to back and virtually fav.

FFS people going OTT here. He's drfited because he was an uneasy fav in the first place and now his schooling fall has been more widely discussed at preview evenings more people are aware of it.

Nothing to suggest he won't run.

isn't he mullins only entry?

No

with a realistic chance of running?

I have heard  good chance he may not run.

"I have heard" from whom? I love these "i have heards" me

Someone who is worth paying attention to thats all.
Some serious bad vibes about this one.

^ But is this someone worth paying attention to someone connected to the yard, or someone who knows their stuff generally.

I ask seriously because I have a good bit of cash for me on him and might take a view to lay some off if there really does seem to be truth in this...

he fell, he was a little sore which explains the price drift, mullins has nothing else entered apart from CF who goes arkle.

initially when he fell I was sceptical about his participation, but im starting to think he will run now...

Maybe a massive about turn??

FY in the Arkle, CF in the RSA, Ballycasey in the 4 miler.

Probably not, but stranger things have happened.

Dreamland.com

Do you think Elvis is alive an'all?

Trainer in Post today Ballycasey all set for RSA.

Bally

We are talking about Willie Mullins mate, just never know.

I never read what he says...just look at the odds on here.that tell you whats happenin