TTT OUT

Last Instalment?

Fenton you're a disgrace

The owner has pulled him out. Now it is down to Gigginstown to see if they do the same.

Had him at 14's NRFB for the Neptune so obviously disappointed, but fair play to the owner imv.  If he would have won it would have raised all sorts of questions and theories, so for the good of the game and the owners reputation, it is a wise move.

I'm sure other backers (Bally) may feel differently though....

PS I don't think he would have won the Neptune anyway.

Im gonna be gutted if Last Instalment is withdrawn, hes my biggest winner of the week.

Shame about TTT, he was really interesting against Faugheen.

No way will Last Instalment be pulled out. No chance.

Spot on Well Chief.

Hope you right, but if its for the good of the sport??

Didn't all this happen 2 years ago?  Surely it's an over reaction!!!!  No money on any of his but we all want the best running at the Festival.

Had same figs Well Chief 14s NRFB so haven't lost anything but with the bad rumours about Faugheen this horse would've been bang there. For me personally, he was the banker of my portfoilo.

All his horses should be pulled imo. If Last Instalment or Dunguib etc go in it'll be a Top Cees moment and not what is needed.

I don't think racing needs another scandal. Whether the horse has been giving anything or not, that won't matter to the general public.

Imagine the headlines if he wins and Fenton's case is due to be heard on 20th March, less than a week after. People will add 2 and 2 and make 5, whether he is acquitted or not.

Think of all the negative publicity surrounding trainer,yard horses etc, you can't have that before, during and after the festival!! Racing has a bad enough name as it is.

And exactly why has it taken 2 years to come to light?

Why doesn't the owner get the horses to a new yard have them tested then it's all in the open?

Maybe First Lieutenant will go GC now ... ? decisions!

Don't know much at all about it, but the Gold Cup is the main profile race, and the sport could well suffer should a trainer with this over him goes and wins the race.
Or is that over reacting??
Its a tricky one, but any decision has to be made for the right reasons.
The sport is the biggest thing at the end of the day.

Trust me Budd if Last Instalment went and won the Gold Cup 60 thousand people at the track would be giving it "is that the trainer that's involved in the alleged scandal?" etc etc

Then you'd have bbc news etc "today there was controversy as Philip Fenton the man who is bla bla bla...."

Sport doesn't need it.

Can see Faugheen getting pulled as well btw...bad rumours

No it doesn't Bally,totally agree, although my pocket would be quiet happy
50/ nrnb plus some on here start of season.

What rumours?

2 mentions of "bad rumours" there Bally, are you just rehashing WPM's comments from a day or two ago about changing his feed where he concluded that he's fine now and ready to race?

Not eating, not been seen since December...

the alleged scandal

leave me out of it

And of course Mullins is always completely honest with the betting public.

I am on him at 11.5 - I want him running. I've already had TTT pulled from the race.

just a change of food bally, he did also say he was ready to run...

Not saying he's always honest, like many trainers - just checking that was the source of the comment.

and yes, I'm keen to see him run!

Hope so!

This is off the topic I know but what can possibly beat Faugheen in the Neptune??

dont like faugheens jumping could be the flaw,cant see any serious rivals now ttt is out could go of 6-4

Gutted I was on heavy each way for the Neptune,thats antepost,but this one leaves a bad taste in the mouth.

Yes, it is ante-post but really should you expect to lose when something like this happens particularly when you have firms just deciding to refund day of the race bets on dodgy starters?

It appears the owner has already convicted the trainer and deemed the horse guilty by association even though he might be completely clean. The only losers are the punters.

BHA going to hope that the owners let them off from having to make a decision are they?

I agree with you,there is nothing fair about this decision,nothing we can do.They have a healthy horse in good form, which will look better if Vautor wins the supreme,standing in his box, why everyone is at the Cheltenham party. Why has it taken two years for all this to come to light. The only losers are the punters.

owner is a loser too aren't they?

How does gigginstown reckon that it's a storm in a tea-cup?

"Yes, it is ante-post but really should you expect to lose when something like this happens particularly when you have firms just deciding to refund day of the race bets on dodgy starters?"



No, they shouldn't expect to lose. There are many obstacles to over come playing ante post, but having a fully fit horse be a non starter because of an impending court case, is a bit too far. TTT backers ought to be refunded in the form a free bet. It's bad enough they have lost a good price.

That is his choice and he has made it,overall its the punters that are the losers in this sorry affair,just gutted thats all but understand what your saying.There are no winners at the end of the day.

That would be nice Graeme but I will not hold my breath,anyway boys hope you all have a good Cheltenham and there are not to many surprises in the next nineteen days.

Cor, Bfred and PP have already started refunds. Hopefully you backed him with one of them mate.

Will Victor show some balls or will it be promo cash?

gutted for TTT followers

I put my bet on with corals, happy days , thanks Graeme

Makes you wonder why it's come to a head a few weeks before Cheltenham. The deferral to after Cheltenham now looks dodgy and presumably casts a cloud over his other runners. It's a real shame.

Bet-365 have refunded ante posts on TTT as well.

I've had some bad luck on my ante-post bets before now and god I must have jinxed many a runner but this is a new one for me. Also sitting on a ticket for Last Instalment at 50's so fearing the worst there too.

Usual suspects dragging their feet on a refund.

Didn't they all end up refunding when Certify (quite ironic she is running today) was banned?

Last Instalment has to follow suit or O'Leary will look the dodgiest, turn-a-blind-eye merchant he's accused everyone doing their job to have been.

Only likely now they wait on Fenton to pull the trigger for them.

Outrage would be unbearable, and ofc he's on a big PR. push now, the great guy...

Billys have refunded me today too.

Though rest assured if they don't act the BHA will. Fenton is banged to rights and his last act as a trainer will not be carrying off the top prize in British Steeplechasing.

Like I said earlier, I don't really know what this is all about, but I would think if a horse is clean,then all should be ok for him to run.
Test the horses and see,,after all the festival is all about them as far as im concerned.

So are BV the only major bookie to not be offering a refund now?

I know what you're saying Bud, but if Fenton has been juicing these horses to strengthen them (and both LI and Dunguib are notoriously fragile) it might not show now they are back in full training and due on the racecourse. Nonetheless, an advantage will have been garnered by illegal means months ago.
Unfortunately, they can't possibly be allowed to run.

On the other hand of course, if they are cleared by the authorities to run and TTT's owners do an about turn, all those punters who got their fancy priced bets refunded will be gutted when it's reintroduced into the betting at 4/1

I don't think one of the O'Learys done themselves any favours by their shifty defence of events. The 'storm in a tea cup' and 'you can't get a vet in time' comments just make the scenario more questionable. They obviously want to win by any means necessary, or may have trainers who were on 'the list'.

Desmond you nailed it. The two 'comeback kids' , the irony.

ofc the stanazol is only 'live' for 2 days, so 'out-of-training' getting strengthened up, doing light work, then all-primed for the heavy work to make them machines.

the way it works.

Be interesting what Gigginstown do with Last Instalment.
O'Leary strikes me as someone who don't give a monkeys!!

Correct Desmond, the drugs would be used in their training and should be out of their system come race day. (If the trainer is a pro).

So they may test clear come race day but this does not mean they are innocent.

buddeliea

This should have been done and dusted by now.
3 weeks before the festival!!



Indeed, and it's Fenton's court tactics to push it past the Festival, the prosecutors wanted a trial date today.

depends on the drugs in question as to how long they will stay in the body, some can easily be flushed out of the body in hours/days whereas some will still be traceable up to 6 weeks later

Surely Fenton can't be allowed to run anything until given the all clear ffs??

As a Last Instalment backer on here what should i do.  Sit tight and wait or take my stake back (not small) at higher odds and try to recover something?

Tory 20 Feb 14 17:23 Joined: 13 Dec 11 | Topic/replies: 599 | Blogger: Tory's blog
So are BV the only major bookie to not be offering a refund now?

Just been on live chat with them now, and said they won't be doing any "proper money" refunds.  Just promo cash like any other non runner.

It's funny. The Olympic final in Seoul was a quarter of a century ago. Racing is in the dark ages when it comes to drugs use.

@ Mary Hinge



They have said they won't do what the Tullow Tanks owners has done. In other words Last Instalment will run regardless.

Graeme83

They have said they won't do what the Tullow Tanks owners has done. In other words Last Instalment will run regardless.


All they've done is bounce the ball into the BHA's court.

Cheers well chief...fookin annoying...see the promo cash?i know you get it in the morning and also know you have to use it within 24 hours but it doesn't actually have to be on a race within that 24 hour period does it? ie if you got dosh back on Tuesday morning you could use it on say the Gold Cup....think I'm right on that but can't remember

@ ffs



I don't think the BHA will do much until after any judgement arrives. They could always pull the horses of Fentons, but what happens if he's not guilty/proven of giving steroids to horses. At this moment in time, the finger would be pointed at the owners, if they won the gold cup. I think the bha will just wait until procedings iron out. How could Sheikh Mohamed get away with having a chemist, and Fenton get his couple of runners pulled for having small ammounts ?

Ballydoyle

Surely Fenton can't be allowed to run anything until given the all clear ffs??


It seems the BHA are briefing journos that ATM they'll drug-test Dunguib and LI to try cool things off.

I don't know what they can do, it seems a bit of a pathetic step though. There also appears to be a few more cases in the pipeline...

To me, it seems obvious that they refuse his entries because he's under serious investigation. That's totally standard in most industries. If you're in a position of responsibility and care, and an allegation is made against you, then you are removed from your post as a matter of prudence.

I.e. think of a cop or a teacher or a vet abusing someone/ some animal, they are put on leave until the thing is sorted out. That's to protect the accused and the system because of the heat them continuing in their role would bring.

Sometimes you have to sacrifice the one for the sake of the many, not that I'd shed a tear for this particular one.

Gigginstown, the reigning champion owners in Ireland, have leading Betfred Cheltenham Gold Cup candidate Last Instalment in training with Fenton but they do not envisage any change of plan due to the handler's case.

Racing manager Eddie O'Leary said: "Philip Fenton is adamant he has done nothing wrong and we're happy that he has done nothing wrong.

"As it stands we have no problem running horses in Ireland or Britain.

@ Graeme,

I guess Sheikh Mohammed made a gesture in closing Moulton Paddocks, and it was a surprise to everyone that tests were positive (being that they came from a tip-off). MAZ took full responsibility and Certify etc... were pulled for the season, and his main yard shut down.

In the eyes of the public it was a scandal but there was management.

Letting Fenton basically run the show himself is not managing the situation.

I was alluding to the supressed scandal, which was after the incident with Al Zaroni. I think prohibited substances were intercepted at an airport ?

@ Graeme,

Ok, I think they were definitely for his Arabians though, don't think there was any doubt about them going to the TBs.

@ ffs



I don't know why they would be for his arabians, when they were flown in from Dubai into Britain. Either way, the bha have set a precedent. They ought to not give preferential treatment to those with money and influence. If Godolphin, who had just been involved in a scandal, got cleared after being caught with a case/mobile clinic at the airport, then i don't see how they can punish a trainer who hasn't been to court yet ?

I'm not trying to defend the Sheikh here, there's a lot I don't like about him, but I believe the products were specifically designed for Arabian horses and he has a lot of them in England as well. I think he shifts them between seasons or something. Anyway, he has a huge Arabian farm and that was where the stuff was headed.

Ballydoyle 20 Feb 14 12:55 Joined: 23 Feb 02 | Topic/replies: 2,608 | Blogger: Ballydoyle's blog
And exactly why has it taken 2 years to come to light?


Because administering steroids to an animal is illegal in Ireland and it isn't illegal in England. So the Turf Club have to give way to legal process. The turf club can't ban Fenton until his case is heard. Ireland has a slow judicial process hence it's taken two years.

While in Britain it's not illegal to administer steroids to animals but it is banned under BHA rules so it's a sporting ban and the BHA make the rules and the penalties.

Ah right ok. Thanks for that. Cheers

duffy 20 Feb 14 14:18 Joined: 28 Mar 03 | Topic/replies: 12,126 | Blogger: duffy's blog
How does gigginstown reckon that it's a storm in a tea-cup?


From what I've heard and read is they think the Departmant of Agriculture found bottles of unlabeled medicine in his yard and it turned out to be banned steroids. I think they're saying that they'd been there years and could have been brought in by any vet. There is no positive test on any horse for banned substance and there is no evidence for him administering a banned substance to any horse. So he will likely be found innocent of those charges and maybe be fined for possession.


The difference between the O'Learys and Barry C is I bet you Fenton hadn't told Barry about this in the intervening 2 years and he's probably angry about that. While O'Leary is mates with Fenton so probably knew all about it.

As is always the case with these things we'll probably never know the truth.

Bookmakers appear to have played very fair on this. It is a sorry mess and I feel vexed for BO'C who puts a lot of money into the game. Potential Cheltenham winners are few and far between for most owners, so I'm sure he would have made this decision with a heavy heart.

@ CVByrne

I thought he was only charged w possession ? ... and that's a serious offence for a licensed trainer, he's not some retired vet.

From what I've heard and read is they think the Departmant of Agriculture found bottles of unlabeled medicine in his yard and it turned out to be banned steroids. I think they're saying that they'd been there years and could have been brought in by any vet.

that should be real easy to verify then, there will be records of when any vets visited the yard, and decided to leave unlabled quantities of steroids around

of course, no reason not to have bottles of medicine around and not know what's in them, why bother disposing of them when they could be useful, even if you don't know what's in them...

will someone with half a ball please **** this guy out of the country

and send that greedy **** O'Leary with you

FFS.

I'm not pointing the finger yet as we don't know nearly enough. It's hard not to think there's something very wrong though when steroids are found in unlabelled bottles in a racing yard. Why would they ever be unlabelled (from a vet or trainer's perspective) unless something dodgy is going on?

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BV are refunding all bets for the supreme and Neptune. Had backed for supreme so rather happy they've done this

Tory - is that for sure ? Nothing happening in my account on that topic. I am in same boat as you so a good result for me. Where did you learn this ?

Twitter. They have voided the bet in my account but funds haven't appeared yet - give it a bit of time and should be fine.

It's very sad TTT won't be going to chelt but from a pure punting viewpoint it's worked out well for me as in addition to backing TTT for the supreme, I'm all over Faugheen in the Neptune and felt TTT was his biggest danger in that

Cheers. Appreciate the feedback. Spookily I am in exactly the same position as you hence my interest. I have had a decent punt on Faugheeen at 16/1. So money back on TTT is a right good result. I suspect it will go straight back to BV on WICKLOW BRAVE in the Supreme. Good luck.

….and money now back in my account. Cheers.

read thru all these posts cause just done my goals galore with bv and it went on w/o deposit and couldn't find any trace of bet on TTT quicker read here than use thier chat