Faugheen & Briar Hill - how they have been prepared for cheltenham

briar hill is going to be a superstar,do agree he has made a balls up of a lot of things this season !

Harry,I agree with faugeen, but like you say a novice can be campaigned at a shorter trip then be stepped up in trip.
On breeding Briars should relish the trip.

He campaigned Cooldine similarly. Think that was fruitful for you if I remember.

cooldine was different as he ran against open horses over 3 miles as a novice hurdler

then the following season started short over fences with the view to stepping up which was clear he would relish

this is not the same scenario, as both horses are going into unknown territory hence the opening post

Gib, what's you thoughts on Trifolium?

bad un

I'm not denying Faugheen's bumper win was special (may even be astonishing) but I couldn't back him at 7/2 for this. Well done if you've got fancy prices, but he's only won a grade 3 over 3miles as a hurdler. Pont Alexandre for connections had much better form before last year's race (grade 1 and grade 2 over 2m4) and we heard similar hype but he got beat.

Hoping Faugheen keeps shortening and makes the market for something else. If he wins I'll just have to get over it.

Agreed.on Faugheen is a daft price now and The Tullow Tank will be too streetwise for him.

Pont Alexandre just looked slow last year and Briar Hill looks similar.wouldnt be touchin him at all. Shockin price him

To be fair pont Alex had excuses

pont was hyped as the second coming, they havnt hyped anything this year... lessons learnt maybe

Briar Hill looks slow heard it all now

Briar hill would win any of the 3 novice races,you don't win bumpers at Cheltenham in 5 strides if you are slow..come on

There is a difference to between being slow and just doing enough !

Potato race

bumper !

Totally agree with you Harry Callaghan.Faugheens jumping is very novicy & he hasnt improved it the more hes ran.Like when Geraghty recommended stepping up Bobs Worth to the albert bartlett,so his jumping wouldnt be under as much pressure.I think the 3 mile is Faugheens best chance.Briar Hill looks like he wants a decent pace.Im sure there are plenty of people on here,that thought after he won the champion bumper,picked him out as their supreme horse.Willie knows best? We will see

To be honest, unless I've got it completely wrong, the horses that Briar Hill beat in the Bumper haven't really done a lot this season.

He beat Azorian "staying on well" by 4 lengths but that horse was beat "easily" by Apache Stronghold. The same horse was hammered 36 lengths by Faugheen.

He beat Very Wood by 3 lengths whereas that was beat 7 by the Tank

He just looks slow to me and in a Neptune would have very little chance of keeping up with the Tank and Faugheen. Would have to be the 3 miler but the record of champion bumpers suggest they are more suited to a Neptune.

Could turn out to be a far better 3m plus chaser than hurdler imo. RSA 2015?

Will Faugheen definitely run?

He's and defo bet top. 3 in this field

really surprised this thread didn't take off with some more form people contributing...clearly lots on here are on the horse and have no wish to be impartial in regards what is the best race for the horse

wonder if willie has a change of heart and swaps them?

Suffered the Mullins heartache before hc, so backed both in the 'win at the Festival' market with Billy's in November last year. Not really bothered if he does switch them!

I dont care what people say about the bumper for me Briar isnt quick enough and is all stamina the 3 miler for me

SJ

i know why you want briar hill in here... because you know it affects your kings palace bet and faugheen would be a much tougher opponent...we both know that

briar hill should take in the easier race which is the neptune imo and put the good horse(faugheen),who has had the albert bartlett preparation, against the other top 3 mile staying novice kings palace

Bring Faugheen on mate. Lets see how he handles giving away lengths at each hurdle. Not bothered whoever Mullins brings, has nothing to do with my bet I look at Briar Hill this year and see out and out stayer I maybe wrong but it has nothing to do with my bet mate, and its a pretty weak arguement

well not really sj as briar hill doesn't look to have the same engine as faugheen...

lets just say for argument sakes, if i was on kings palace, i know the horse that i would want to meet and that horse is briar hill not faugheen...faugheen would make the bet much more fragile, as he would be a legitimate challenger and has also be campaigned the same as kings palace

on a serious note...the point you make about faugheens jumping, is why the albert bartlett is the race he should be taking in...hence why they have prepped him how they have, thus not putting pressure on the jumping...the longer race won't put the pressure on it, like the neptune will, only imo of course

Its all about opinions mate, as Ricci said they will look at the Neptune cos Faugheen doesnt settle the greatest and I thought he was coming towards the end of his teather over the longer trip last time. I dont think there is a horse as fluent or as quick over hurdles in the novice ranks as Kings Palace so I think even though its over 3 furlongs further Kings Palace will put more of a test on Faugheen's jumping than anything in the Neptune field

strange that SJ because i thought he was no where near the end of his tether at limerick and all he does is stay...we will just have to disagree as think the other and if faugheen takes in the albert bartlett he will be my biggest bet at the meeting, whereas i don't like him in the neptune even though challengers are thin on the ground, i would sooner kings palace make the market for him

are you worried kings palace hasn't prepped even though he is from the pipe yard?

Fair enough mate. Yeah that is a concern and I'm worried about David's record in big races when having a fancied one. I was just really taken with his slickness of jumping when I was at Cheltenham on International day.

in fact sj have you actually watched the race finish in the limerick race??

at what point did he look like he was coming to the end of his tether, sorry but like to keep people honest...if you could just explain thanks

don't get me wrong i like kings palace and he has a near perfect profile for the race...he hasn't beat much but done it well

i have been studying this race for a while as like it and he is a worthy favorite but i am still keen to get him

No mate I havent watched the Limerick race just thought I'd sound interesting

spot on harry Callaghan.....coming to the end of his tether my whole......the horse would have gone round again.....its a million to one sj even watched the race.....

Faugheen to me look a out and out galloper, he may not hurdle the best but they have had some opportunities to put it right and he will almost certainly travel all over anything else in the race. Could definitely see him improving for better ground.

Oh hello we got another one, where people have to act like a tw at. It s amazing how pathetic people are when it comes to a difference of a opinion it really is

Thats to Paulie Walnuts

this isn't a difference of opinion ya moron.....its you who is acting like a tw at.....emmet mullins couldn't pull it up in limerick.....it went over the line on the bridle.....you didn't watch the race.....and you pretended you did......its as simple as that......there is no difference of opinion.....you my friend sj are a bullshhitter......

Yeah ok you could really tell what was under the bonnet couldnt you? Such a high quality race run at a true pace. And we can add Bullsh itter moron etc. Very funny, god you're so tough.

well you could obviously tell what was under the bonnet.....you were able to tell us that  he was at the end of his tether......and you were the one trying to be smart with harry Callaghan.....with yer just wanted to sound interesting Shiite.....well I have news for ya......I don't find you interesting in the slightest.....because spoofers don't do it for me.....now good night to ya sj......

Come on who let Danny Dyer in .

settle down lads no need to turn it into a slagging match

sj i certainly wasn't meaning to sound funny and the race was run at a crawl but i certainly didn't see him even brake sweat that was all and certainly not to the point even to think about saying he was coming to the end of his tether

why did you have these thoughts just explain so i can understand your reasoning?

paulie let the man explain

I just think he's running style is very much with the choke out and he does everything easily. Has a fantastic cruising speed. Thats all. I think Briar Hill would be a better 3 miler cos he looks a out and out stayer and a grinder to me, but that is apparently just down to wanting him in the race for the sake of my bet on Kings Palace, then I get the old "Did you watch the race" Chestnut. So that'll do me, thanks for the chat it s been interesting. Remember people a difference of opinion is allowed hence why the different prices on horses

everyone entitled to there opinion but lets not turn this to sound like people are getting at you sj

you said he was at the end of his tether in his last race, which he clearly wasn't and that has nothing to do with anyone else, it is just that people didn't agree with you and questioned your judgment on the said race

i was just asking why this was, when he won hard on the snaffle in that race, nothing to do with your bets

i know that is an easy one to use now to save face, but you also ramped faugheen for the neptune on the faugheen thread because you know it affects your bet in the albert bartlett and nothing to do with you backing faugheen for the neptune because you haven't... we all know that briars hill is the easier opponent or at least i do

Briar Hill looks like he wants 5 miles never mind 3...beat Azorian 4 lengths who was just the 37 lengths behind Faugheen

Was at the end of his tether then admits never even watched the race....is there a point in arguing really?

Think he was being sarcastic, Ballydoyle.

This seems to of been one of Willie's simpler conundrums in his placing of superstars. He rates them as probably his best two novices so wants to keep them apart and sees them both as potential stayers so the Supreme is out of the question leaving him to decide which goes for the Neptune and which the AB. Faugheen is a powerful cruiser who has speed and uses a lot of energy through his races. A fast paced race would be ideal for him in theory. Briar Hill is the opposite, a horse who keeps everything back for himself and only does enough. He would not be inconvenienced by wasting energy if they went steady in a 3 mile race.
Regarding the campaigning that is a bit more cryptic and hard to explain. My best guess, based on what he said at the time, was that the race over 3 mile was a chance to try to teach Faugheen to settle in the early part of a race. Indication is that the lesson wasn't 100% successful. I don't see any problem in stepping up Briar Hill to 3 miles for the first time here. Many of the past winners of this prepped over 2.5 miles.

7 of last 9 had ran over 3 miles prior to this and champion bumpers don't tend to turn up in the 3 miler

Nine is quite a long way from being a satisfactory sample size but if you want to go down that road what percentage of the runners were trying 3 miles for the first time?

Morning all

I can see Ruby letting Faugheen have his head going down the hill (in the Neptune) and just drawing clear for a 20 length win.

Letting him go on so early will hopefully use his speed to draw clear and then any small jumping error near the end of the race will have little consequence.

Forty

@forty, the 20L win might be asking too much but the feel I got from watching the previous race on video a number of times was very similar to you, could see a few small mistakes not making much difference as he gradually gallops everything else into submission. It might be that the way to play is too back him again if he makes a few small jumping errors but travels well in the race.  I know the bumper form is just that ... a bumper but Faugheen destruction of Josses hill suggests how good he might be.

Harry, the Neptune is marginally over 20f so Faugheen is not being dropped back a full half mile.

Bobs Worth won the potato race when running at 3 mile for the first time too so it's not unprecedented though clearly he was a gold cup horse. Not sure Briar Hill is.

harry callaghan 24 Feb 14 22:19 Joined: 10 Nov 07 | Topic/replies: 2,504 | Blogger: harry callaghan's blog
everyone entitled to there opinion but lets not turn this to sound like people are getting at you sj

you said he was at the end of his tether in his last race, which he clearly wasn't and that has nothing to do with anyone else, it is just that people didn't agree with you and questioned your judgment on the said race

i was just asking why this was, when he won hard on the snaffle in that race, nothing to do with your bets

i know that is an easy one to use now to save face, but you also ramped faugheen for the neptune on the faugheen thread because you know it affects your bet in the albert bartlett and nothing to do with you backing faugheen for the neptune because you haven't... we all know that briars hill is the easier opponent or at least i do


No they didnt. I suggest you're suffering from memory loss. Go back through the thread, I said I think Briar Hill is all stamina and a out and out 3 miler, YOU put that down to me backing Kings Palace. Nothing else.
I said it looked like Faugheen was coming to the end of his tether over 3 cos the way he runs with the choke out once again we had the smary angle if Id even watched the race. I liken him to Cue Card in the KG as in still going well and not looking like stopping but ultimately the way he runs if a decent stayer would of be up against Faugheen I dont think he would of found a lot. That's all.

06 Dec 13 / 17:16    Single (EW)    1         12th Mar 2014 - Neptune Investment Management Novices' Hurdle  –  Outright     Faugheen @ 14/1    –    £100.00    O/1754032/0000387/F
17 Nov 13 / 13:08    Single (EW)    1         12th Mar 2014 - Neptune Investment Management Novices' Hurdle  –  Outright     Faugheen @ 16/1    –    £100.00    O/1754032/0000385/F


Yeah I have backed Faugheen with hills. I'm sure with me not even "watching races"  myRamping will work wonders pal

Lets flip this on its head Harry you only want Faugheen in the 3 miler cos you want to back him V Kings Palace

SJ yes i do want to back faugheen as think he will beat kings palace but also because i like his prep for the 3 miler and i will be happy with the price i would get against a proper opponent

for me the albert is the stronger race on paper so if i were willie i would take the better horse(faugheen) to it and hope briar hill could beat the lesser horses in the lesser race, thus giving him 2 good chances

sorry sint should of put a furlong in

faugheen runs in and wins the Neptune, it really is that simple folks

Agreed. I thought The Tullow Tank would win this even with Faugheen and backed both at double figs but now the Tank is out I cant see much danger.

briar hill would beat faugheen and kings palace,best horse in mullins yard !

judging by all our weather forecasters on the forum... i wonder if the ground will be softer earlier in the week and better later in the week which would suit faugheen more for the albert and of course briar hill more in the neptune

just a thought

I would have thought the opposite

same as alleged from what I have seen so far

why do you say that?? faugheen wants better ground not sure briar hill does

They must want Faugheen in the Neptune eh Harry

clearly sj - as does, your good self

Both Faugheen and Briar Hill seem to handle all types of ground Harry. Briar Hill's best performance came on the best ground he's encountered.

They could go either way but if the ground is soft I'd say it'll strengthen the case for Faugheen to go for the shorter race, because they're worried about him burning too much energy over the longer trip.

fair comments slabster...

however briar hill is a shantou and moves with a very rounded action...faugheen is far more fluent imo and would love good ground, more so than briar hill who is untried over 3 miles also but on soft in the neptune will be ideal...also it comes back to the opening post and faugheens preparation and we know he will stay well, briar hill an unknown but promises too

maybe i'm just reading this wrong but really want to see faugheen in the albert bartlett and the neptune is the weaker race and would give briar hill his best opportunity of getting his head in front

got a couple up me sleeve for the albert but want to back faugheen as not keen on briar hill and race will not be good for me if he wins

Harry I 100% agree with you re the way they have been campaigned, seems odd unless faugheen goes in the 3 miler and briar hill in the neptune.

Briar Hill won the champion bumper comfortably, whatever about stamina, he obviously has serious pace. He also has won a 3m point to point so would seem to stay. It would take a serious horse to win a 2 mile champion bumper then the next year win the 3 mile Albert Bartlett. Given that generally the festival bumper winners end up contesting the Supreme. I think given that he has the pace to win the festival bumper he shouldnt go any further than the Neptune distance as it represents his best chance. The 3 miles is a step into the unknown as its 4 fl further than he's gone on the track before.

Faugheen looks a machine, I suppose similar to Pont last year which should set off alarm bells. But his bumper romp has worked out tremendously and he hasnt been off the bridle since. I think he looks tailor made for the 3 mile race. With Ruby on board and extensive schooling his jumping should be better, as well as the slower pace of the 3 mile race not stressing his jumping.

Ive backed Faugheen at 10s for the AB and Briar Hill at 12s for the Neptune, both non runner free bet, will be huge value on the day if thats where they end up.

Briar Hill is a lazy horse. Much like Boston Bob. Interesting fact about Boston Bob is despite everyone having him down as an out and out stayer all of his form is over 2 1/2 miles really. I just wonder if their running style makes them seem slower than they are. Not saying that they don't/won't get 3 miles but I'm not sure they need that trip to be seen at their best. You can't win a champion bumper without pace. I wonder if Willie has ever thought about blinkers?

I wonder if Willie has ever thought about blinkers?

I doubt it, he's not a big fan of head gear and it's only used as something of a last resort!

Didn't it used to be quite common for bumper winners to turn into stayers, even if the recent trend tends to be for them to go down the Supereme route?

if all else fails harry you could go to one of those preview evenings that wullie will be present at.

you could pop the question I want to lay KP but I think youd have a better chance with faugheen rather than BH, but I cant put the lay in place until you give me the go ahead as your obviously not reading what I write on the betfair Cheltenham threads......

Faugheen in Neptune
Briar in AB

its done and dusted

Harry another Mullins fav without a distance win-Ballycasey!!!Maybe A Power too if going for the World.I will probably end up poorer but i will look to lay all 4 .Its all about opinions on here thats what makes reading these posts fun.My opinion is distance wins are essential to any horse I back.Good luck all.

briar hill will win the gold cup in 2 years time,before that it will win the ab then the sun alliance next year,best horse in the yard !

i don't tend to agree with this last post cufcno and will be surprised if he wins any race in the future at cheltenham...why because briar hill is a shantou and his progeny so far as i see it, reach a level of form then don't improve much more...morning assembly is also a shantou and this is the first year he has had 2 good bullets to fire...we will see

yes you will argue he won the bumper but like a lot of his progeny he actually isn't improving much now...his form allows him to run well but i for one will be surprised if he wins

q a cheltenham double for the sire

Faugheen is willie mullins future gold cup horse

Did anyone see the Walsh interview on RUK today and if so, did he say anything about Faugheen? Thanks

He said as far as he is aware Faugheen is in good form. That was about it, I think.

Ok thanks. Bit different to what was said on twitter so wanted to check. He's quoted as saying he's the best novice he's ridden all year and 'leaning' towards Neptune

the stable has always known what races they were going for ,i put a win trixie on for them last december , vatour , faugheen and briar hill ,10's 8's and 10's , think there all around 3's now

Dogs barking for BH in the Bartlett now. Favourite on Oddschecker.....biggest market mover today.

yes good news...taking up plenty of the market now

I reckon as a result of last nights preview in Galway.

beleive me briar hill is the 'real machine',even the faugheen will win aswell !

though sorry !

Briar Hill now 2/1 with the magic sign I reckon Willie must have stuffed a jet engine up his jacksie !

I link Briar Hill but he shouldn't be favourite. If Kings Palace was wearing Ricci colours it would be odds on.

Like*** that should say

this briar hill is going to be very expensive for me if he comes up the hill in front...

still, looking forward to the challenge of getting him...lets hope the cash keeps coming, could be very short come the day, especially if willie has a good week as well

I can't have him at all man. Boston Bob and Pont Alexandre all over again..grinding out novices in Ireland and then beat at Chelts

Apache Jack 25-1 and only beat 2 lengths by the 5-2 fav LTO...him and Captain Cutter will do for me

I am amazed that some people keep mentioning Boston Bob and Pont Alex all the time. BB was beaten by a horse that could have been anything and there were genuine excuses for PAs performance. Most of WMs favourites in the non handicap races at Cheltenham have won anyway. Have a look at the Pipes record with favourites in those races. Most of WMs horses are now poor value prices but its not his fault (was not Pipes fault either).

I'm still on the fence on this one. The Neptune and the Albert Bartlettt are very similar.
I've got Faugheen & Briar Hill in a small trixie with Vautour. And I've got Vautour/Faugheen in a double for £5 at 24/1 as one of Paddy's enhanced specials. I've also got King's Palace in a 20/1 double with The New One.

You can go on form, and if you look at King's Palace & Red Sherlock their form is both strong and franked repeatedly, or you can go with hype. On paper, Faugheen and Briar Hill have done absolutely nothing. It's easy to say that you should oppose hype horses at Cheltenham but the problem is that the hype horses from that yard so often live up to the hype.

The other option is you can pick something from left-field in either or both races. Because of the money coming for the front two in each race you will get some good prices on the rest, and it's likely a place will make you a nice profit.
If my small stakes doubles and trebles work out I could be in a nice position come the potato race, but either way I imagine ill be looking for something at a price to give the principles a race.

bet looking interesting now

Yeah cracking bet Mary

A pleasing result

Yeah £5 win trixie on Vautour and Faugheen with Briar Hill at 5/1 the third leg Reckon it is worth the best part of £900 if Briar Hill gets up tomorrow so am tempted to stick £100 on Kings Palace who I rate the main (only?) danger

I'm hoping BH runs on Friday mc!