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Eeternaloptimist
02 Jan 14 13:18
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In all likelihood only Mullins will know which race he would ideally like to target this one at for Cheltenham but the bottom line is the owner pays the bills and by far the most prestigious hurdle race of the whole season is the Champion.

Given the fact that some mares can have a red hot season where they carry all before them and then don't hit those same heights again, if she were mine I'd want to know for sure what I had on my hands. I'd be insisting she next runs in the Irish Champion and if she won that I'd be wanting her there on the Tuesday. If she runs well but is beaten fair and square by Hurricane or one of the others I'd turn my thoughts to the Stayers or Mares race. But until I'd looked at her capabilities over 2 miles there's no way I'd be coerced into avoiding the Hurricane.

What say the Cheltenham cognoscenti?

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Replies: 84
By:
wellchief
When: 02 Jan 14 15:00
I'd certainly give it a go, and then they'll know one way or another whether they should go for the Champion or the World Hurdle.

She'd have a massive chance in both races, but from my pocket's point of view, I want to see her in the Champion.  She travells so well through her races, and in my mind, she is the number 1 mare in Willie Mullins' yard (sorry Quevega fans)
By:
Eeternaloptimist
When: 02 Jan 14 15:29
It may be a contentious view but I think that there is now an argument that she is the number one horse in the yard full stop. Obviously The Fly's supporters will vigorously rebuff that suggestion but I'll bet they are hoping she doesn't show up for the Irish Champion.
By:
SoYouThink
When: 02 Jan 14 15:36
I would say it's very unlikely that she'll run in the Irish Champion given Willie Mullins quotes after her two most recent wins.
By:
wellchief
When: 02 Jan 14 15:53
I think thats a bit premature at the moment Eeternal!

She looks like she can go right to the top, but a couple of victories over Zarkandar doesn't quite read as well as the Fly's Grin

I backed her NRFB for the Champion, and deep down, I'm not expecting her to run in that.  The trouble is as well, if she does go for the World Hurdle the natural race following that would be the World Series Hurdle over 3m at the Punchestown Festival, but Willie has sent Quevega to that for the last three years.

Surely, at some point in the year, he is going to put two of his big guns up against each other.  Fly vs Annie in CH, Annie vs Quevega in Mares, Annie vs Quevega in World Series Hurdle, Fly vs either one in the Rabbobank (Quevega ran in that after her first mares win).

Maybe a trip to Aintree could be on the cards for one of them for the first time? 

Theres's so many combinations, but when you have three top ones, its inevitable that they'll have to meet at some point.
By:
Ballydoyle
When: 02 Jan 14 16:03
Number one horse in the yard full stop?LaughLaughLaughLaugh
By:
Ballydoyle
When: 02 Jan 14 16:05
On a serious note...this is a World Hurdle horse. No chance it runs in Irish Champ. They have the Fly. The number two horse in the stableLaugh
By:
Arklearkle
When: 02 Jan 14 16:54
Eternal if my memory serves me correctly you spent most of last year crabbing The Fly. If both of ye live long enough I reckon youll get it right eventually.
By:
Eeternaloptimist
When: 02 Jan 14 17:01
I appreciate that such a suggestion may be premature and some will see it as ludicrous. Having said that no horse has ever beat Zarkandar further or easier and that includes The Fly, The New One or Rock On Ruby. He has always been between a half length and six behind the very best. Taking 8 lengths out of Zarkandar after the last hard on the steel is seriously impressive. Throw in the fact that after two out Empire Levant was leading them then that is suggestive of the race itself turning into a sprint. A quick horse who can stay two and a half would be a serious proposition in a champion.

Of course being the trainer Mullins will want a favourites or near favourites chance in Champion and World Hurdle but if I was the owner I would want to know where Annie stands in relation to the top 2 milers and then commit to a longer distance if required. So he'd be running over 2 miles in late January. Of course they can choose to die wondering instead. They pay the bills.
By:
Eeternaloptimist
When: 02 Jan 14 17:03
No Arkle. I've never crabbed The Fly. I think he's been the best 2 miler since Istabraq. I just don't think he is quite as effective at Cheltenham as he is on a flatter track with softer ground and my view is that the records back this theory up.
By:
buddeliea
When: 02 Jan 14 17:23
Yeh,i think it fair for the owner to know exactly what he has with APower.
Personally I too would like to see her over 2m in top company very soon,shes obviously in top form and time looks right to me.
As for being number one in the stable,thats possible, but only one way to find out for sure.

I have her at 40 nrfb for the CH,and have just gone in on the 5 nrnb on offer for WH, and hopefully will get a run!!
At this stage I think she has a fair chance in either race, but in time she will be a staying chaser I would think.
Dawn run???
By:
Autocue
When: 02 Jan 14 20:11
I'd like to see her in the Irish Champion hurdle as well. Personally think she'll be done for toe as she looks a strong stayer to me but I wouldn't mind being proved wrong. I think it's daft to get carried away with two runs against a horse that seems to have lost his mojo to the extent that people are saying she's better than Hurricane Fly. She sure travels sweetly though.
By:
eastayrshire
When: 02 Jan 14 20:17
I'd like to see her in the Irish Champion hurdle as well. Personally think she'll be done for toe as she looks a strong stayer to me but I wouldn't mind being proved wrong. I think it's daft to get carried away with two runs against a horse that seems to have lost his mojo to the extent that people are saying she's better than Hurricane Fly. She sure travels sweetly though.

I`m not convinced Zark has lost it as much as people are assuming, and it IS an assumption.In fact on the albeit very small evidence we have it wouldn't suggest Zark had lost that much form.
By:
duffy
When: 02 Jan 14 20:25
If they want to see her over two miles and considering she has been the stable star that has travelled over to contest races so far this season, then why don't they just send her over again to run in the kingwell, there they will be able to gauge her against something decent at the distance without stepping on HF's toes.
By:
buddeliea
When: 02 Jan 14 20:52
Well really it all depends on what they see as her target in the spring,cos that's where they need to campaign her.
We are in January now and If they want to find out if shes a Churdler then she has to run next in a decent race around that distance I would think.
I await her next entry and hope its around 2 miles.
Gut feeling is it will be more of a staying race.
Think Un De Sceaux will represent owners in the Churdle,and have just topped up my original Betfair bet with some 16 nrfb.
By:
Forty
When: 08 Jan 14 18:25
There's loads of talk re AP but has anyone heard any news regarding Quevega? Is she well?

My view is that AP IS NOT GOOD ENOUGH FOR THE Champion hurdle and I think that a fit Big bucks would  probably beat her also.

Therefore I believe she will run in the Mares race if she goes to Cheltenham at all.

Forty
By:
dwm767
When: 09 Jan 14 10:12
I wouldn't be surprised if she doesn't run at the Festival at all this year...

Mullins won't compromise Hurricane Fly or Quevega's chance of victory, and if Big Bucks, Solwhit, More Of That and Celestial Halo all run in the World Hurdle that's a hot renewal. She's only a 6-year-old; it's safe to assume this will be Hurricane Fly, Big Bucks & Quevega's last Fesitval win or lose, so why not wait a year until the options are more straight forward and the decision is only to run her in which race suits best, and not have to consider the opposition?
By:
Eeternaloptimist
When: 09 Jan 14 10:43
I've had a little on More Of That for the World Hurdle so I'd like her not to run in that but logically you can't wrap a six year old in cotton wool just because they have stablemates. They aren't machines. At any point she may suffer a career ending injury and this may be the best we ever see of her. In any event at six she is coming to her best. The best race allowing for the owners preferences has to be chosen for her. There are no excuses because she obviously travels well and likes the course. her absolute best chance of a festival victory is in the mares. The most prestigious race is the Champion. A prestigious but not quite as hot option may be the World Hurdle.

I'd want to know where I stood prior to going. She'd be running in the Irish Champion if she were mine and if she got within a reasonable distance of The Fly there and the ground was suitable she would be going for the champion. If she is beaten off easily for pace my choice would be reduced to two. I absolutely would not pass up the chance of finding where I stood for fear of what it may do to The Fly's champion hurdle aspirations and I wouldn't want to be going 3 miles for the first time at the festival and tiring after the last and ending up with nowt.
By:
eastayrshire
When: 09 Jan 14 13:23
I've had a little on More Of That for the World Hurdle so I'd like her not to run in that but logically you can't wrap a six year old in cotton wool just because they have stablemates. They aren't machines. At any point she may suffer a career ending injury and this may be the best we ever see of her. In any event at six she is coming to her best. The best race allowing for the owners preferences has to be chosen for her. There are no excuses because she obviously travels well and likes the course. her absolute best chance of a festival victory is in the mares. The most prestigious race is the Champion. A prestigious but not quite as hot option may be the World Hurdle.

I'd want to know where I stood prior to going. She'd be running in the Irish Champion if she were mine and if she got within a reasonable distance of The Fly there and the ground was suitable she would be going for the champion. If she is beaten off easily for pace my choice would be reduced to two. I absolutely would not pass up the chance of finding where I stood for fear of what it may do to The Fly's champion hurdle aspirations and I wouldn't want to be going 3 miles for the first time at the festival and tiring after the last and ending up with nowt.


That makes a lot of sense, imho Annie Power if considered good enough MUST run at the festival, I declare though I have a bit of pocket talking here lol (NRNB). Everything we have seen so far points to AP perhaps being a little special, all we need now is BB to defect ;-).
By:
duffy
When: 09 Jan 14 13:37
All eyes will be firmly trained on the cleeve and if BB shows to walsh from afar that he isn't the same horse then AP will run in the WH IMO.
By:
willie the milk
When: 09 Jan 14 13:47
The way she stayed on to beat Zarkandar at both Ascot & Cheltenham, tells me she will find the CH to much a test of speed and she would struggle against MTOY, TNO, HF etc. imho, the Mares race is perfect for her but Mullins has Quevega for this and winning at a 6th festival will be paramount, if she is fit. The World Hurdle, with a back to fitness BB will be potentially the hottest race of the week. I could see team Mullins wait for the Aintree Hurdle, which will be ideal, trip wise. Hope not though.
By:
duffy
When: 09 Jan 14 13:57
Everything will depend on the Cleeve.....there's no way she'll run in the Irish CH, they aren't going to subject both horses to a race where they could "potentially" beat each other up....I did say potentially!
By:
stevo1
When: 09 Jan 14 13:57
Not sure hottest race of week BB not make it, AP to lose think bringing over to Cheltenham b4 speakers volumes imo.
By:
Eeternaloptimist
When: 09 Jan 14 14:13
Duffy

I hardly think it likely there will be any beating up in the Irish Champion. They often don't really actually get racing in many races outside of Punchestown until the last half mile. Annie Power stays two and a half well and it will be about six weeks from there until Cheltenham. She's had a light campaign and I'd expect they will want to get another run into her anyway.

Personally, given that she's never raced over 3 miles I'd be reluctant to risk bottoming her between now and then over that distance so there aren't that many options if they do want to get another race into her. Seems both the ideal prep for Chaltenham regarding timing and that race would give a much clearer indication of which race they should be targeting at Cheltenham.

I've no doubt that Mullins won't want to run her in the race. The owner owns the horse and pays the fees. there are several scenarios which would infuriate me as an owner. Lest say they target the world hurdle to allow The Fly and Quevega clear runs and one of those is beaten and she then ties up after the last in the world hurdle and is done for the season. Gutted. Let's say they don't run here and keep her for Aintree over two and a half and she wins with her head in her chest beating the champion hurdle winner and you wonder what might have been.
By:
duffy
When: 09 Jan 14 14:35
What about if they ran her in the CH and simply wasn't quick enough and then BB ran a shocker in the WH....what then?

I can see that her avoiding the Mares is because of Quevega, but she has a better chance of winning the WH than she has of winning a CH...nothing we've seen from her suggests otherwise.
By:
ACStafford
When: 09 Jan 14 15:03
I wouldn't consider the mares, even if Quevega wasn't running. It's a Mickey Mouse race compared to the other two, with far less prestige and far less prize money. Even if Big Bucks has still got it, the World Hurdle race is nowhere near as strong a the Champion, so, if there's doubts about what her best trip is, this should be the aim imo.
By:
Eeternaloptimist
When: 09 Jan 14 15:13
duffy

What if's? The perennial question. I'd say that if she shows enough speed to win an Irish Champion then she clearly has enough speed for a champion hurdle. Question answered and she would then be a clear favourite on merit going in to the race.

She may have a better chance of winning the world hurdle but at this stage we don't actually know that because she's never actually run over 3 miles in any class and neither has she contested a top class two mile race. What we do know is that she had enough speed to beat Zarkandar over two miles three at Ascot and Zarkandar was good enough to beat The New One over two miles four at Aintree.

All that is of course conjecture. The question can be answered shortly and it would still be the perfect prep race for the world hurdle or mares if she isn't quick enough for 2 miles.

Why not?
By:
duffy
When: 09 Jan 14 15:18
Fair enough, good points...can't argue with any of that.
By:
Eeternaloptimist
When: 09 Jan 14 15:20
I don't think I'll have a bet in the champion because I think it could well be one of the best races we have seen in years with tremendous strength in depth. I just genuinely believe that she could add a certain special something to the race and that purely from a sporting perspective not only would I love to see that but I think she deserves the chance to see prior to then if she could possibly do it in the blue riband hurdling event.
By:
Just So
When: 09 Jan 14 16:09
I don't think I'll have a bet in the champion because I think it could well be one of the best races we have seen in years with tremendous strength in depth. I just genuinely believe that she could add a certain special something to the race and that purely from a sporting perspective not only would I love to see that but I think she deserves the chance to see prior to then if she could possibly do it in the blue riband hurdling event.

Eeternal - I am with you on pretty much all of this. I got into the game a bit late for Dawn Run - early days and all but hugely exciting to think this one could be a bit special too. Cue Peter O'Sullevan March 1986.........
By:
AfterShock
When: 10 Jan 14 01:13
What Price would Annie Power be NRNB in the Mares Hurdle?
By:
callitasucit
When: 10 Jan 14 01:31
Considering the only way she will run in it, is if Quevega doesn't, and taking into account that Quevega wouldn't be much over evens NRNB, then anything close to evens on Annie NRNB would be acceptable. Quevega will be there though, so AP wont.
By:
Just So
When: 10 Jan 14 09:46
is there anything up with Salubrious? Not quoted by VC or the sponsors today but seems steady enough elsewhere. Curious. Anyone heard anything?
By:
SoYouThink
When: 10 Jan 14 19:59
Quevega should be back in training by now.....can anyone confirm that she is?
By:
Ballydoyle
When: 10 Jan 14 20:07
Probably is...being prepared for the annual bore that is the mares hurdle. Just wish connections had a bit of balls at some point for the World Hurdle.
By:
Arklearkle
When: 10 Jan 14 22:07
Quevega back in training and a week earlier this year. She has never been fully wound up for Chelts but nearly back-fired last year. Her Punchestown form always way better than Chelts.
By:
Arklearkle
When: 10 Jan 14 22:07
Quevega back in training and a week earlier this year. She has never been fully wound up for Chelts but nearly back-fired last year. Her Punchestown form always way better than Chelts.
By:
irishone
When: 11 Jan 14 16:26
Annie Power will run again "somewhere" , she's improving , loves going to England. .... Willie 11/01/14
By:
Mr Eboue
When: 11 Jan 14 21:19
"I think it's great that so many people are interested, it's good for racing, which is important to me, so I'm delighted and very proud of that fact," said Ricci.

"People don't believe me but I can be honest and tell you I wanted to take her chasing earlier in the year, we talked about it in September, October and we decided we'd keep her over hurdles with the big days in mind - the big days being the Champion Hurdle, the World Hurdle - and we haven't talked about it since.

"What's on my mind is trying to find her her next race, I think she needs another race. Willie might not, I haven't talked to him about it.

"It's hard. I think she'd be a very competitive runner at either two miles or three miles and we'll just have to see how it plays out. We've got the Irish Champion Hurdle coming up, there's the Cleeve Hurdle, see how those cards play and before we hold a gun to our own heads we'll see how things pan out.

"But she's in great form and the trick now is finding her next race.

"People who know me know I'm in this, as a hobby of course, but to win and compete at the highest level and to try and win the big ones.

"The Champion Hurdle is a big one but the World Hurdle is big as well.

"But, yes, look, I'd be less than honest if I said if I didn't keep her over hurdles to run in the Champion Hurdle, I'd be silly. And we did, we kept her over hurdles to see if she was a Champion Hurdle horse and she's answering all of those questions, but we have to see how it all plays out.

"But certainly that was the intent at the beginning of the season and she's done nothing to disprove us - that doesn't mean we'll run there, there's still a lot to play for - but yes, absolutely, you want to win the big ones."

Ricci was asked whether he felt a bigger field and a faster pace would enable her to be competitive at the shorter distance of the Champion.


"I look at the Defy Logic run last year in that Grade Two where he really set a good pace and she really showed a turn of foot," he said. "It wasn't a big field but that gallop suited her.

"The mares' race was probably the biggest race she's won she won a bumper, I think it was a 30-runner or 25-runner bumper or something. She's done well in those field, but she's in great nick and I'm looking forward to her next run."

Profiles Annie Power (IRE)
Interviewer Matt Chapman next asked Ricci whether the availabillity of Ruby Walsh would have a bearing on the final decision as to where to run her.

Walsh would appear certain to ride Hurricane Fly against Annie Power if the pair did both line up in the two-mile championship contest, although the dual Champion winner will line up next in the BHP Irish Champion Hurdle at the end of this month.

"It has a bearing but I have absolute confidence in Paul [Townend] as well," responded Ricci.

"I think what we'll do is worry about what is the best race for the horse rather than for the jockey - I think that's the right way to think about it - and see what happens from there."
By:
eric_morris
When: 11 Jan 14 21:30
I think the Irish Champion will expose her two mile turn of foot and put her on course for the World Hurdle. She is likely to fall in the Oscar Whiskey 'where do we go' zone and when that is the case you are nearly always best stepping up as it means you dont tend to have the pace at the shorter trip in the highest class.

They should go for the Irish Champion as it will help them make the decision on the right race for her at Cheltenham. Walsh will be confident enough Hurricane Fly will sprint away from her at the trip and I believe he would be correct.
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