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Like the 20/1 nrfb on offer for the Gold Cup.
Still need convincing that 3m2 will be ok for him, but he turns up on the day means hes proved he does,and he wont be that price.
Still need convincing that 3m2 will be ok for him, but he turns up on the day means hes proved he does,and he wont be that price.
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After Saturday, the KG must be Dynastes very best chance for the season, couldn't have him now for the gold cup, it was a brilliant run from him the other day and I must believe that he would have to have been pretty much spot on for the day, he came there looking like the winner for me, but after the last the petrol gauge was emptying and I can't believe that the stiffer track and further distance will help him reverse placings with CC in the gold cup, he'll have his best chance on boxing day though.
Paul Nicholls has confirmed Daryl Jacob will partner Al Ferof in the William Hill King George VI Chase at Kempton on Boxing Day with Noel Fehily set to continue his association aboard Silviniaco Conti.
The trainer talked down the prospect of Ruby Walsh making another appearance in the race aboard one of his runners, despite his phenomenal five victories with Kauto Star.
Nicholls finds his pair hard to split, with Al Ferof making a pleasing comeback from a year off the track by sauntering clear of French Opera in a match at Ascot.
Silviniaco Conti lost his Betfair Chase crown at Haydock but still finished a respectable third, and will be again taking on the pair that were ahead of him, Cue Card and Dynaste.
Nicholls said: "Daryl will definitely ride Al Ferof, that's what he went to Ascot for, to ride him, and I said to him a while back to do that and stick with him in the King George.
"Ruby is in a different job now. With the lads who own Silviniaco Conti, I could say to them Ruby is there if you want him but Noel rode him at Haydock with a view to riding him in the King George and possibly staying on him for the season so I suspect that if Noel is available he'll probably ride him."
Referring to Al Ferof, Nicholls said: "He had a school round the other day but that was just what we wanted. He's done a lot of work since then, schooled every week and is a lot fitter. He's in really good order."
And of Silviniaco Conti: "I don't know why but we're all finding it awfully hard to get them fit first-time-out this year.
"In the paddock at Haydock he looked too heavy really and he ran like that, travelled well from two out looking dangerous, blew up and then stayed on strongly.
"Joe (Tizzard) rode a brilliant race on Cue Card, he got a very soft lead, dictated the race from the front, very much like Ruby did the year before. It's a great front-runner's track but I can't see that happening in the King George.
"I think Cue Card has had a run, and Conti will definitely be a lot fitter. Last year he'd had a run in the Charlie Hall and some of those horses will improve from that run.
"It's a really interesting race and my view is that the winner will come from those four."
Tom Scudamore, jockey of the David Pipe-trained Dynaste, agreed Cue Card's prior appearance in the Haldon Gold Cup could have given him a vital edge.
The grey, who took last year's Feltham Novices' Chase over the course and distance, was tackling the major names for the first time and was ultimately beaten just four and a half lengths by Cue Card.
Scudamore said: "We set our stall out - Dynaste was as fit as David could get him, he looked fantastic and he'd had a very clear run, but I think there's a difference between that and actual race-hard fitness.
"With Cue Card, he had had obviously improved from the Haldon Gold Cup to the Betfair and we're hoping we'll be able to do the same, but hoping and actually doing it are different things."
Starting to get more confident of his chances come boxing day, his price is shortening all the time.
The trainer talked down the prospect of Ruby Walsh making another appearance in the race aboard one of his runners, despite his phenomenal five victories with Kauto Star.
Nicholls finds his pair hard to split, with Al Ferof making a pleasing comeback from a year off the track by sauntering clear of French Opera in a match at Ascot.
Silviniaco Conti lost his Betfair Chase crown at Haydock but still finished a respectable third, and will be again taking on the pair that were ahead of him, Cue Card and Dynaste.
Nicholls said: "Daryl will definitely ride Al Ferof, that's what he went to Ascot for, to ride him, and I said to him a while back to do that and stick with him in the King George.
"Ruby is in a different job now. With the lads who own Silviniaco Conti, I could say to them Ruby is there if you want him but Noel rode him at Haydock with a view to riding him in the King George and possibly staying on him for the season so I suspect that if Noel is available he'll probably ride him."
Referring to Al Ferof, Nicholls said: "He had a school round the other day but that was just what we wanted. He's done a lot of work since then, schooled every week and is a lot fitter. He's in really good order."
And of Silviniaco Conti: "I don't know why but we're all finding it awfully hard to get them fit first-time-out this year.
"In the paddock at Haydock he looked too heavy really and he ran like that, travelled well from two out looking dangerous, blew up and then stayed on strongly.
"Joe (Tizzard) rode a brilliant race on Cue Card, he got a very soft lead, dictated the race from the front, very much like Ruby did the year before. It's a great front-runner's track but I can't see that happening in the King George.
"I think Cue Card has had a run, and Conti will definitely be a lot fitter. Last year he'd had a run in the Charlie Hall and some of those horses will improve from that run.
"It's a really interesting race and my view is that the winner will come from those four."
Tom Scudamore, jockey of the David Pipe-trained Dynaste, agreed Cue Card's prior appearance in the Haldon Gold Cup could have given him a vital edge.
The grey, who took last year's Feltham Novices' Chase over the course and distance, was tackling the major names for the first time and was ultimately beaten just four and a half lengths by Cue Card.
Scudamore said: "We set our stall out - Dynaste was as fit as David could get him, he looked fantastic and he'd had a very clear run, but I think there's a difference between that and actual race-hard fitness.
"With Cue Card, he had had obviously improved from the Haldon Gold Cup to the Betfair and we're hoping we'll be able to do the same, but hoping and actually doing it are different things."
Starting to get more confident of his chances come boxing day, his price is shortening all the time.
That's good news that DJ stays on board,i don't say it means hes the No1,but its good that someone whose rode him is on top.
IS,
Thanks for posting that,very interesting.
IS,
Thanks for posting that,very interesting.
I think if you missed the 14/1 pre Ascot price, I wouldn't be lumping on at the general 5/1 that he is now.
10's was freely available after his Ascot race, so I don't know what he has done in the time since to warrant being half of that price now?
Still, I think there are quite a few of us who are all aboard the Al Ferof Express, so no complaints from me
10's was freely available after his Ascot race, so I don't know what he has done in the time since to warrant being half of that price now?
Still, I think there are quite a few of us who are all aboard the Al Ferof Express, so no complaints from me
Nearly fav for the KG 
I had a little bit at 12/1 but was hoping for 6/1 come boxing day, that would had paid for christmas and money to back oscars rock in the challow.
I expect PN to say afterwards, he was always our no1
I had a little bit at 12/1 but was hoping for 6/1 come boxing day, that would had paid for christmas and money to back oscars rock in the challow.
I expect PN to say afterwards, he was always our no1
Yep,he wont mind the rain, just hope it don't get so bad that it hinders him seeing the 3m out!! he is unproven at the distance after all. I do think he will be ok whatever the ground, but I do worry!!!
Long Run,although out of form, will certainly relish it if it becomes a slog.Dynaste won on heavy last year on the day as well,and Captain Chris nearly did!!
Long Run,although out of form, will certainly relish it if it becomes a slog.Dynaste won on heavy last year on the day as well,and Captain Chris nearly did!!
The more rain the better for AF,He'll stay 4 miles!!
Well,this is it,the time has come for Alf to show us exactly how good he is or can be.
Going looks to be soft but not heavy,so no excuses about staying the trip as far as grounds concerned.
Just hope he runs his race,jumps as well as he normally does and gets the 3m well.
Does all them 3,he gives himself every chance of running a big race for sure.
Whether he wins the race is another matter,hes up against some real exciting chasers who imo could go all the way to the top at this distance.
Good luck Alf,run your race,and win or lose your supporters will be proud.
Be nice to silence your critics though!!.
Going looks to be soft but not heavy,so no excuses about staying the trip as far as grounds concerned.
Just hope he runs his race,jumps as well as he normally does and gets the 3m well.
Does all them 3,he gives himself every chance of running a big race for sure.
Whether he wins the race is another matter,hes up against some real exciting chasers who imo could go all the way to the top at this distance.
Good luck Alf
,run your race,and win or lose your supporters will be proud. Be nice to silence your critics though!!.
Ive been thinking all along that ALf is a Cheltenham horse,and after watching that today I am even more convinced that he needs left handed to produce his best.It was my main fear for this race,and a fair few fences jumping slightly to his left seems to confirm that.
No excuses as far as the race is concerned he was clearly not as good as the front 2 and was also not as good as MB who chucked his race away at the fences again.
He stayed on ok though and the way he jumped the last suggested the tank still had plenty,and I think he will be much better suited by the extra distance of the Gold Cup and the track.
Hes a lively outsider for the Gold cup imo.
Sconti will take some beating though!!
No excuses as far as the race is concerned he was clearly not as good as the front 2 and was also not as good as MB who chucked his race away at the fences again.
He stayed on ok though and the way he jumped the last suggested the tank still had plenty,and I think he will be much better suited by the extra distance of the Gold Cup and the track.
Hes a lively outsider for the Gold cup imo.
Sconti will take some beating though!!
Did well to finish 3rd budd. Outpaced down the back when Joe Hazzard turned the heat up and jumped out to the left a bit too. Doing his best work at the end of the race. First proper contest for over a year too. Why not the Gold Cup?
Yeh mate,quiet agree, he will be a better horse at a track that suits him.
Why not indeed.
Why not indeed.
Sorry lads, but has to be Ryanair for me after that.
I think a very strongly run race of 2.5 at his fav track would suit him down to the ground. I admit he stayed on well, but it was more pluggin on at one pace ahead of with Mt Benbulben and Long Run, who I class well below Gold Cup form.
His two best chase performances have been over 2.5, so to me, it is his best chance at the festival.
I think a very strongly run race of 2.5 at his fav track would suit him down to the ground. I admit he stayed on well, but it was more pluggin on at one pace ahead of with Mt Benbulben and Long Run, who I class well below Gold Cup form.
His two best chase performances have been over 2.5, so to me, it is his best chance at the festival.
No chance of beating Silviniaco Conti never mind Bobs Worth, Sir Des Champs etc so why bother wasting a Cheltenham entry?
Will run in Ryanair but Cue Card is a better horse.
Will run in Ryanair but Cue Card is a better horse.
Disagree, I know it's flaky logic as they weren't racing over the trip , but with another couple of furlongs and another fence he would have been a darn sight closer still, he looked to me a stayer in the making...I couldn't step him back in trip on the back of that...I think he's a fascinating prospect for the GC...20/1..great....before the race every other thread was about how he's bred to stay, well he's just proved it for me, and the further the better.
His finishing position today probably wasn't too far away from where you'd have expected BW to have finished....a stayer on the wrong type of track....coming back from the inconveniance of having a long time off.
I just can't see how he could make up 14 lengths with Conti and 11 with Cue Card to be honest.
As I said, he did stay on, but only when his chances were already long gone; to have a chance of winning a Gold Cup he would have needed to prove that he could stay on whilst being up with the pace imo. He jumped the last about 1 length in front of MB, and ended up about 2 lengths ahead at the line, so not that big a difference.
I know that logic means he'd be completely outpaced in the Ryanair, but I think a strongly run race, leading from the front, would suit him better.
All a game of opinions though....
As I said, he did stay on, but only when his chances were already long gone; to have a chance of winning a Gold Cup he would have needed to prove that he could stay on whilst being up with the pace imo. He jumped the last about 1 length in front of MB, and ended up about 2 lengths ahead at the line, so not that big a difference.
I know that logic means he'd be completely outpaced in the Ryanair, but I think a strongly run race, leading from the front, would suit him better.
All a game of opinions though....
whats the negative? since being a nOvice he,s won a PP and 3rd in a KG , cue card and SC are grade 1 horses, is it really that bad bally? in hindsight?
Considering his record around cheltenham he is entitled to show better form than at kempton.
Yep,a different track with an up hill finish and 2 furlongs more will see him a lot closer to the front 2 yesterday imo.
Always a chance that Kempton would not suit the horse at the highest level and so it proved, but I genuinely feel Cheltenham suits him really well.
No way have I given up on him, and look forward to his next race hopefully at Cheltenham in January.
As for Ryanair...forget that,hes a stayer.
Always a chance that Kempton would not suit the horse at the highest level and so it proved, but I genuinely feel Cheltenham suits him really well.
No way have I given up on him, and look forward to his next race hopefully at Cheltenham in January.
As for Ryanair...forget that,hes a stayer.
Unless he runs in the Argento or AON, I'm not convinced with him over the Gold Cup trip. I think he is probably the second best horse over 2.5, but I think there are about 5 who are probably better over 3.
I know the Ryanair is not the most prestigious race, but his odds in that are half of that in the Gold Cup, ao it would seem to be his best chance of a win.
As you say, he will improve for Cheltenham, but as I said earlier, there's one thing staying on past beaten horses and staying on with the big boys at the front.
I accept that if Cue Card runs in the Ryanair, he probably won't have the speed to beat him, but Imo he needs to prove he stays better over 3m Championship pace.
You pay your money and take your chance though, so good luck to all that gave backed him in either race.
I know the Ryanair is not the most prestigious race, but his odds in that are half of that in the Gold Cup, ao it would seem to be his best chance of a win.
As you say, he will improve for Cheltenham, but as I said earlier, there's one thing staying on past beaten horses and staying on with the big boys at the front.
I accept that if Cue Card runs in the Ryanair, he probably won't have the speed to beat him, but Imo he needs to prove he stays better over 3m Championship pace.
You pay your money and take your chance though, so good luck to all that gave backed him in either race.
too too early to be written off, if he puts up a good performance in one of those trials he is defo back in the mix
For lack of a better phrase...Gold Cup my arsse.his own trainer says he thinks he should go Ryanair. Al Ferof backers who done their money yesterday...please accept that your horse was way behind Cue Card and Silviniaco Conti. He's simply not that ****g good!!
I would not be writing Al Ferof off quite so easily. He's been off the track for a long time with just a training gallop of 2m3f at Ascot in last 13 months. This was his first time at a distance over 2m4f and he came 3rd in the second most important G1 3m Chase of the calendar. He is bred to stay. To me he looked like a stayer yesterday in the Bobs Worth mould. That'll do for me. Silviniaco Conti just turned round 10 lengths versus Cue Card from Betfair at Haydock. I reckon Al Ferof will get a whole lot better by March and over 3m2f going left handed he looks a great bet at 25/1. Surely he will make the first three at least. Almost as good as Champagne Fever at 10/1 for Jewson with NRFB. That looks a steal.
The winner's stablemate Al Ferof was 11 lengths back in third in a race dominated by just two horses, and Nicholls said: "I was worried about soft ground for him. He might be more a Ryanair horse than a Gold Cup horse this year, but I'll talk to John Hales (owner)."
Silviniaco Conti was beat 5 lengths in the Betfair.not 10
Al Ferof's next run will probably clear things up a bit. If it's the Cotswolds Chase or the Irish Hennessy, then connections are clearly hoping to persevere with him at longer distances and if he runs well in one of those races, then off he goes to the Gold Cup. If he runs in something like that 2m 4f race at Ascot, then it's probably more like the Ryanair.
I think he would stay the Gold Cup trip but he's just simply not good enough to win. Wouldn't win Ryanair if Cue Card went for that either but think Cue Card will run in Gold Cup and be held up
Whatever about the Gold Cup for Al Ferof, I would think it would be poor decision making by the Tizzards if they don't go for the Ryanair after yesterday.
Nicholls has always been very keen on Silviniaco Conti as a Gold Cup horse. He was sure he had him right last year for it. At the moment he has nothing for the Ryanair so Al Ferof to Ryanair would suit Nicholls I am sure of that. But John Hales is no pushover and if he thinks he has a Gold Cup horse he will be arguing his case very strongly I am sure. Every time Hales speaks about Al Ferof he talks about that fact he is bred to stay. Personally I think both Cue Card and Al Ferof should and will run in the Gold Cup………but WTFDIK……….great race yesterday. Really lived up to billing. Dynaste fans might not agree. Now that one aint no Gold Cup horse in my opinion.
Run Al Ferof in the William Hill then if he don't want to go to Ryanair
I jest.....as for Cue Card yep think connections would be mad not to run in Ryanair but they will look and say "well won the Betfair and were a clear 2nd in King George so shall we give it a try?"
Bally - officially was beat 5.75 lengths in Betfair and won yesterday by 3.5 yesterday. Thats a turn round of 9.25 lengths. Make that 10 for cash 
. Making sense ?
. Making sense ?
Don't forget Unioniste folks.....his performance tomorrow might have a bearing on where Al Ferof goes.
a year too soon for unioniste imo, but you never know....
SYT - very good point. Unioniste gives both Hales and Nicholls options. My bad. Thanks for the reminder.
Bally - if I were sitting on that great 40/1 double you are on I would be hoping to persuade Tizzard and Nicholls to go for the Ryanair too ! That was a great bet.
In an ideal world we'd like to see them all in the Gold Cup, however I can see at least two of Cue Card, Alf, Unioniste and Dynaste in the Ryanair.
Nichols said he had Conti spot on yesterday rather than Haydock, which could explain the turn around.
I think the Gold Cup winner was one of the front two in the KG, no matter what happens in Ireland. Both seem to have the blend of speed and stamina (despite Cue Card fading).
If Tidal Bay runs well off a big weight in the Welsh National, he could be another possible Nichols runner.
Nichols said he had Conti spot on yesterday rather than Haydock, which could explain the turn around.
I think the Gold Cup winner was one of the front two in the KG, no matter what happens in Ireland. Both seem to have the blend of speed and stamina (despite Cue Card fading).
If Tidal Bay runs well off a big weight in the Welsh National, he could be another possible Nichols runner.
Yeah but I'm not so sure SC wins the Gold Cup. If you see Stevos thread I've put up Harry Topper (no chance) Lord Windermere and First Lieutenant. The last two are fair nags with Cheltenham experience. Then there is Bobs Worth who is a specialist and Sir Des Champs. Was more of a bet to allow for playin about with others if he won the King George.i took SC at 6/1 and Dynaste for yest. Dynaste ran like a drain and surely can't be winning no Gold Cup and I don't fear Cue Card at all. will run in it but will not stay..
Think the Welsh National might be Tidal Bays last race if he runs like he did at Haydock
A horse that gets outpaced over 3m and runs on at the finish jumping the last fence really well,tells me he had plenty left and certainly don't want to go back in trip.
We will see a different horse back at Cheltenham and he needs to be aimed at the Gold Cup trial race in Jan.
As for not being good enough,thats of course possible, and yesterday did tell us that...... if the GC was run at Kempton over 3m.
But it aint.Its run over 3m2 at Cheltenham, the horse deserves a chance at the track that suits him best before being written off for the Gold Cup this season.Hope he gets it.
We will see a different horse back at Cheltenham and he needs to be aimed at the Gold Cup trial race in Jan.
As for not being good enough,thats of course possible, and yesterday did tell us that...... if the GC was run at Kempton over 3m.
But it aint.Its run over 3m2 at Cheltenham, the horse deserves a chance at the track that suits him best before being written off for the Gold Cup this season.Hope he gets it.
Agree with Budd, he shaped like a stayer, yes he got well beat, but at chelts over further going that way round, he's a chance to improve over the extra distance, said earlier, the talk before was about his staying pedigree, well it looks even more like it now, I know BW has proved it, but this is why he doesn't run in this race and AF is shaping like a stayer himself.
You would be more than hopeful that he'd finish in front of CC and Dynaste now.BW and SDC have questions to answer in the next few days themselves, conti is obviously strong...but I have a hunch that the GC is going to thin out, that's the problem with the Ryanair, 3 of the top6 in the GC market may now not even run in it, they've all got somewhere to run to now and take away from the spectacle of the real big race.......25's is more than fair for me.
You would be more than hopeful that he'd finish in front of CC and Dynaste now.BW and SDC have questions to answer in the next few days themselves, conti is obviously strong...but I have a hunch that the GC is going to thin out, that's the problem with the Ryanair, 3 of the top6 in the GC market may now not even run in it, they've all got somewhere to run to now and take away from the spectacle of the real big race.......25's is more than fair for me.
Also think that the race will have done him the world of good in terms of experience being only his 2nd proper race out of novice company, and maybe fitness wise as well?.
Nice break now and back in 4-5 weeks.
Look forward to it.
Nice break now and back in 4-5 weeks.
Look forward to it.
yep,Bob and SDC certainly have questions to answer,Bob after an awful run lto,and SDC fell lto.
Kempton third Al Ferof will take in the Denman Chase at Newbury next month before we decide whether to go down the Ryanair or Gold Cup route with him.
Pleased with that news from Nicholls.
I was a tad concerned they might go to Ascot over 2 and a half, but at least they are giving him a go over 3m next time,and really hope its on better ground.
Gold cup still remains a possibility.
Pleased with that news from Nicholls.
I was a tad concerned they might go to Ascot over 2 and a half, but at least they are giving him a go over 3m next time,and really hope its on better ground.
Gold cup still remains a possibility.
Does Silviniaco Conti have a prep race so or go straight to the Gold Cup. He ran in the Newbury race last year - would have thought they'd have went the same route with him again.
Sounds like Gold Cup according to Nicholls on the Morning Line
Layed off a little bit of my Al Ferof Ryanair bet @ 12's and backed Wonderful Charm in it @110 on here.
Yeah, but I think the plan was to see how he ran in that, and then pick his race, but it seems like its been picked already.
Although I'm not sure if Rocky Creek will alter any plans today.
If he wins the Argento well (poor renewal Imo) then he enters the Gold Cup picture, so would he run all 3 and a novice in the Ryanair?
If he wins the Argento well (poor renewal Imo) then he enters the Gold Cup picture, so would he run all 3 and a novice in the Ryanair?
Yeh,he runs em in the races that he thinks best suit.
He will run 3 ok, done it before chief.
He will run 3 ok, done it before chief.
The only difference this time Budd, is he had Poquelin as fav for the Ryanair in those days, rather than a novice.
He had 4 of the first 5 in 2009 (&13th)
he would run 10 if he thought they had a chance.
I thought the denman race at newbury was his next race.
he would run 10 if he thought they had a chance.
I thought the denman race at newbury was his next race.
I'm not disputing that he wont go mod handed in the Gold Cup.
Just trying to say that on those occasions he had a chance in the Ryanair and not having to rely on a novice.
In 2009 My Will was only there as a national prep anyway. Also, the four he ran were out and out stayers, and none of them had an option of dropping back, where as Al Ferof gives him flexibility that he never had in those years.
Just trying to say that on those occasions he had a chance in the Ryanair and not having to rely on a novice.
In 2009 My Will was only there as a national prep anyway. Also, the four he ran were out and out stayers, and none of them had an option of dropping back, where as Al Ferof gives him flexibility that he never had in those years.
fair points,but no way will Al Ferof run in the Ryanair,if hes proved to them hes worthy of a place in the Gold Cup....wont matter what his position in in the Ryanair.
His owner will see to that!!!
His owner will see to that!!!
only 1 race the owner wants to win and it aint no ryanair
Yeah, he would have an outstanding chance in the ryanair but the owner wants him in the gold cup.
& im on at 26.24 for the ryanair
& im on at 26.24 for the ryanair
Like the 20/1 nrfb on offer for the Gold Cup.
Still need convincing that 3m2 will be ok for him, but he turns up on the day means hes proved he does,and he wont be that price
Well,that was my opening post on this thread. Hope none of you took the 20's!!! Like I did.
I still need convincing 3m2 will be ok for him, and quiet honestly it don't look good at all.And one thing for sure if he turns up on the day he WONT have proved he does, and he WONT be that price...probably be bigger!!
Well you have to laugh.
So what happens now!! Jockey says Ryanair, trainer probably thinks the same, and owner wanted Gold Cup all season, not sure what he wants now though after yesterday???.
So how much of this is down to the ground?? Way he ran at Kempton and Yesterday suggests to me that whatever distance he would not have won, and it could be the ground.....but then again it was pretty soft at Cheltenham when he carried a big weight in an impressive performance in the Paddy Power.
Personally, I think hes a horse that prefers good ground as it was in his Supreme,but CAN act on soft when hes right and in form.
Im don't think his performances in the KG and Aon suggest hes right,and its hard to see him being right at the festival in 4 and a half weeks,especially after such a hard time yesterday.
As hes a big favourite of mine and I firmly believe hes a proper Cheltenham type, I am gonna give him a chance to prove himself back there on decent ground.
For my pocket I hope the owner gets his way if he still wants to have a go at the GC,but for the horse I just hope they do the right thing..... for him.
Still need convincing that 3m2 will be ok for him, but he turns up on the day means hes proved he does,and he wont be that price
Well,that was my opening post on this thread. Hope none of you took the 20's!!! Like I did.
I still need convincing 3m2 will be ok for him, and quiet honestly it don't look good at all.And one thing for sure if he turns up on the day he WONT have proved he does, and he WONT be that price...probably be bigger!!
Well you have to laugh.
So what happens now!! Jockey says Ryanair, trainer probably thinks the same, and owner wanted Gold Cup all season, not sure what he wants now though after yesterday???.
So how much of this is down to the ground?? Way he ran at Kempton and Yesterday suggests to me that whatever distance he would not have won, and it could be the ground.....but then again it was pretty soft at Cheltenham when he carried a big weight in an impressive performance in the Paddy Power.
Personally, I think hes a horse that prefers good ground as it was in his Supreme,but CAN act on soft when hes right and in form.
Im don't think his performances in the KG and Aon suggest hes right,and its hard to see him being right at the festival in 4 and a half weeks,especially after such a hard time yesterday.
As hes a big favourite of mine and I firmly believe hes a proper Cheltenham type, I am gonna give him a chance to prove himself back there on decent ground.
For my pocket I hope the owner gets his way if he still wants to have a go at the GC,but for the horse I just hope they do the right thing..... for him.
Nicholls saying the Queen Mother might be an option..... which tells you he must think the owner is complete bonkers to want to go for the Gold Cup.
Thought the same as you Budd, Al Ferof was a good NRNB for the Gold Cup. But having seen him he last twice, he's a 1000-1 chance. He's handled testing ground before yet never liked look a winner last twice, never jumping like he dd in the Paddy Power. Can only conclude he's not the same horse and difficult to see better ground helping him much.
Thought the same as you Budd, Al Ferof was a good NRNB for the Gold Cup. But having seen him he last twice, he's a 1000-1 chance. He's handled testing ground before yet never liked look a winner last twice, never jumping like he dd in the Paddy Power. Can only conclude he's not the same horse and difficult to see better ground helping him much.
I've mentioned on here that I was all over him for the King George, but had him at a big price in the Ryanair in case he didn't stay in that. His last two runs shows that he is in no way a Gold Cup horse.
Whether the ground was too soft for him or not, he was on his ar$e jumping the last two, and if he'd have gone down a length to a mud lover, that'd be one thing, but not 25 lengths to one that was a 50/1 shot in the Gold Cup.
He is definitely a good ground 2.5 mile horse to me. He showed in his comeback race against French Opera that that is his distance. He gave a good yardstick 6lbs and an easy 8 length beating, and then French Opera won well in a big handicap next time out.
I've also mentioned in this thread that Nicholls will want a Ryanair horse, without having to rely on a novice, and I'm certain Al Ferof will run in that now. There's no way I'd be going in at 7's or whatever price he is, but despite the Gold Cup being more prestigious I'd rather put my horse in the race which he has the best chance of winning.
Nicholls has mentioned that the QMCC is not out of the question, and as mad as it sounds, with doubts about a lot of the leaders in that, he wouldn't be a no hoper.
Whether the ground was too soft for him or not, he was on his ar$e jumping the last two, and if he'd have gone down a length to a mud lover, that'd be one thing, but not 25 lengths to one that was a 50/1 shot in the Gold Cup.
He is definitely a good ground 2.5 mile horse to me. He showed in his comeback race against French Opera that that is his distance. He gave a good yardstick 6lbs and an easy 8 length beating, and then French Opera won well in a big handicap next time out.
I've also mentioned in this thread that Nicholls will want a Ryanair horse, without having to rely on a novice, and I'm certain Al Ferof will run in that now. There's no way I'd be going in at 7's or whatever price he is, but despite the Gold Cup being more prestigious I'd rather put my horse in the race which he has the best chance of winning.
Nicholls has mentioned that the QMCC is not out of the question, and as mad as it sounds, with doubts about a lot of the leaders in that, he wouldn't be a no hoper.
So who is Nicholls GC horse now?
Rocky Creek did a One Man impression in the Argento
Unioniste needs 26f+ on bad ground.
I'd be inclined to give Al Ferof another chance. Obviously hit a flat spot, but looked to run on again at the end. Don't forget that Nicholls tends to use this meeting as a prep, leaving something to work on for Cheltenham.
Doesn't he also give his horses their annual injections at this time of year?
Rocky Creek did a One Man impression in the Argento
Unioniste needs 26f+ on bad ground.
I'd be inclined to give Al Ferof another chance. Obviously hit a flat spot, but looked to run on again at the end. Don't forget that Nicholls tends to use this meeting as a prep, leaving something to work on for Cheltenham.
Doesn't he also give his horses their annual injections at this time of year?
I would think he is well presented with the King George winner, Twonky
I know, but I can't forget his comment about missing Cheltenham 2 years ago.
Something along the lines of waiting for Aintree as Cheltenham wouldn't suit him.
His form on flat courses is far superior than undulating courses. And I'm not convinced he was staying on when falling last year, looked to be tiring to me.
Something along the lines of waiting for Aintree as Cheltenham wouldn't suit him.
His form on flat courses is far superior than undulating courses. And I'm not convinced he was staying on when falling last year, looked to be tiring to me.
I am a huge fan of this horse but QMCC come on your having a laugh.
I am disappointed that they run this horse yesterday, trainer said that the bottomless ground wouldn't suit, so why did they run him ????
there is a chase at wincanton that Neptune collonges run in prior to his participation in a gold cup, why wasn't he re routed there is another id like to know.....
he also runs really well when fresh, as proven in the PP, so just a racecourse gallop somewhere to just take the buzz out of him would also have been another option....
I think nicholls has some answering to do.....
I am disappointed that they run this horse yesterday, trainer said that the bottomless ground wouldn't suit, so why did they run him ????
there is a chase at wincanton that Neptune collonges run in prior to his participation in a gold cup, why wasn't he re routed there is another id like to know.....
he also runs really well when fresh, as proven in the PP, so just a racecourse gallop somewhere to just take the buzz out of him would also have been another option....
I think nicholls has some answering to do.....
I'm not so sure Nicholls has ever seen him as a Gold Cup horse. After the George he suggested the Ryanair as his festival target.
The owner we know always wanted the Gold Cup. So maybe Nicholls getting his way with a trial run, like yesterday, instead of going straight to the Gold Cup may help convince the owner to go over the shorter trip.
The owner we know always wanted the Gold Cup. So maybe Nicholls getting his way with a trial run, like yesterday, instead of going straight to the Gold Cup may help convince the owner to go over the shorter trip.
good to see common sense prevail at forfeit today.
Ryannair, or if soft ground, might consider Champion Chase
Ryannair, or if soft ground, might consider Champion Chase
Well that was a lot better from Al Ferof,and I did hear his trainer quoted as saying they fancy a go at the Gold Cup this season. Wish they would make their mind up and stick to it!!
I still aint sure at all hes 3m 2f,but I am willing to chance it at the right price.
Ive said before I think hes ideal at around 2 and a half,maybe a tad more,on decent ground.
He will handle soft as he proved again on Saturday,but right at the top level I think he needs decent ground and certainly if hes ever gonna stay 3m plus.
Anyway, nice to see him back and running well, and whatever races hes put into over Xmas(KG I imagine) and March,i will be backing him.
I still aint sure at all hes 3m 2f,but I am willing to chance it at the right price.
Ive said before I think hes ideal at around 2 and a half,maybe a tad more,on decent ground.
He will handle soft as he proved again on Saturday,but right at the top level I think he needs decent ground and certainly if hes ever gonna stay 3m plus.
Anyway, nice to see him back and running well, and whatever races hes put into over Xmas(KG I imagine) and March,i will be backing him.
Certainly nice to see him show so old sparkle, just a shame Ruby wont be riding him in the KG. They are made for each other.
Yep was really good to see him back to his best. Looking at how they plan on campaigning him that may be his best run this year though. Think he flattens out over longer trips.
will be interesting to see whether our old friend progresses this season...physical issues seem to have halted his progress since his supreme win and a few names have been called in the past but his first run back was a career best and if they can just get a clean run with him, will be interesting what he can do...
the king george will tell us where we are with him in regards him backing up his clear liking for going well fresh...there shouldn't be any excuses this time in the george if proving he can stay
progresses this season...physical issues seem to have halted his progress since his supreme win and a few names have been called in the past but his first run back was a career best and if they can just get a clean run with him, will be interesting what he can do...the king george will tell us where we are with him in regards him backing up his clear liking for going well fresh...there shouldn't be any excuses this time in the george if proving he can stay
Id be inclined to put him away and bring him back for the festival as he seems to go best fresh.
If they are not thinking that,then his performance in the King George will be very interesting ,as it will probably determine his Cheltenham target. Last I heard Nicholls talking about him he said he would go for the Gold Cup.
form of his win at Ascot not done any harm this w/e by the performances of Al Ferof and Somersby.
thought you'd like that one budd
the george is interesting, as nicholls said he hadn't had him in long before ascot...it's just the question, can he back up? if he can he has to run a big race...i couldn't look beyond his next start betting wise/cheltenham myself as he has been known to run the odd hound of a race in the past but he looked in good form at ascot but he has flattered in the past
the george is interesting, as nicholls said he hadn't had him in long before ascot...it's just the question, can he back up? if he can he has to run a big race...i couldn't look beyond his next start betting wise/cheltenham myself as he has been known to run the odd hound of a race in the past but he looked in good form at ascot but he has flattered in the past
I think we,ll see a diferent alf this season, now the ulcers have been sorted
They just cannot make their mind up.
They been talking aboutb the Gold Cup all season.
They are talking about the Champion Chase now!! and thats a horse that won impressively against good 2 and a half milers at Ascot and stayed on over 3m at Kempton after getting outpaced-well thats how it looked to me. Hes just run a race that suggests going up in trip not down!!
How on earth does he keep up over 2m if hes outpaced at 3m??..............
Unless of course they just did not let him go earlier in the race yesterday, cos I did notice Sam pulling him back early on. Maybe he needs to go out and bowl along at 2m?? I just don't know, but I do know how it looked to me yesterday.
3m2f at Cheltenham.....I think its worth a go.
They been talking aboutb the Gold Cup all season.
They are talking about the Champion Chase now!! and thats a horse that won impressively against good 2 and a half milers at Ascot and stayed on over 3m at Kempton after getting outpaced-well thats how it looked to me. Hes just run a race that suggests going up in trip not down!!
How on earth does he keep up over 2m if hes outpaced at 3m??..............
Unless of course they just did not let him go earlier in the race yesterday, cos I did notice Sam pulling him back early on. Maybe he needs to go out and bowl along at 2m?? I just don't know, but I do know how it looked to me yesterday.
3m2f at Cheltenham.....I think its worth a go.
There is another think to consider..........hes running when hes in the mood, and needs to be fresh.
Put him away now and bring him back for March, whatever distance I think you would see the best of him.
Put him away now and bring him back for March, whatever distance I think you would see the best of him.
Smacks a bit of desperation to me, Nichols thinking he is a Champion Chase horse - Ryanair would suit much better. Although Nichols has Dodging Bullets and Hinterland, so he probably knows the pecking order between them three.
If (and that's big if) Sprinter comes back to even 70% of his best, he'll be better than Alf over 2m. He only has 5 lengths to make up with Dynaste, who is fav for the Ryanair.
If (and that's big if) Sprinter comes back to even 70% of his best, he'll be better than Alf over 2m. He only has 5 lengths to make up with Dynaste, who is fav for the Ryanair.
Maybe Chief, and hes run possibly his best race over fences at Ascot over 2 and half.But his last years Ryanair performance weren't great
I just think hes a horse that you have to get right on the day, have him nice and fresh.
You will then get the best out of him at whatever distance they choose......I happen to think the Gold Cup is worth a go,he stays on in all his races.
I just think hes a horse that you have to get right on the day, have him nice and fresh.
You will then get the best out of him at whatever distance they choose......I happen to think the Gold Cup is worth a go,he stays on in all his races.
I believe he,s best fresh as well budd, I also think when ruby is on board he is 7lbs better, just my opinion...
"Al Ferof probably goes to the Betfair Ascot Chase next month, and that should tell us what race we head to at Cheltenham. But, after speaking with John (Hales), the Champion Chase is our preferred option at the moment, though nothing is set in stone.
Mind you, Sprinter Sacre may make up our minds for us - either way - at Ascot on Saturday"! Paul Nicholls
Mind you, Sprinter Sacre may make up our minds for us - either way - at Ascot on Saturday"! Paul Nicholls
Well I am rather unhappy with that to be honest.
He keeps running his best races after a good break,and now they are saying he will probably run at Ascot next month!!
I just don't get it.
They seem to making a bit of a mockery with the campaigning of Alf....bit like Mullins with Cfever imo.
About time connections of these 2 horses - in particular Alf - made their minds up about their optimum trip.
Personally I think Alf is a stayer,but if as they say he wont settle and conserve his energy,and wants to go faster, then maybe he should run as he wants over shorter distance.
Really at the age of this horse they ought to know by now!!
He keeps running his best races after a good break,and now they are saying he will probably run at Ascot next month!!
I just don't get it.
They seem to making a bit of a mockery with the campaigning of Alf....bit like Mullins with Cfever imo.
About time connections of these 2 horses - in particular Alf - made their minds up about their optimum trip.
Personally I think Alf is a stayer,but if as they say he wont settle and conserve his energy,and wants to go faster, then maybe he should run as he wants over shorter distance.
Really at the age of this horse they ought to know by now!!
and that should tell us what race we head to at Cheltenham
Hes a 10 year old ffs!!!
Do they really need to run him at Ascot to find out anything??
No, he needs to go straight to Cheltenham without a run and run in the race that they know gives him his best chance of winning,or the race that will enable him to produce his best performance at least.
Hes a 10 year old ffs!!!
Do they really need to run him at Ascot to find out anything??
No, he needs to go straight to Cheltenham without a run and run in the race that they know gives him his best chance of winning,or the race that will enable him to produce his best performance at least.
his two most impressive performances as a chaser came after long lay offs, and both times trainer said he hadn't had him back long and would come on for the run 
paddy power and this years ascot race
I agree budd choose which race they want to go for and go there FRESH
I agree budd choose which race they want to go for and go there FRESH
Thought this fella ran an absolute blinder in the Ryanair and deserves a lot of credit.
Although he won the Supreme, I thought he ran the race of his life the other day, and as an 11 year old, it was great to see him turning for home battling with Road to Riches and Valseur Lido.
Great training performance by Dan Skelton, and see no reason why he can't come back next year.
Although he won the Supreme, I thought he ran the race of his life the other day, and as an 11 year old, it was great to see him turning for home battling with Road to Riches and Valseur Lido.
Great training performance by Dan Skelton, and see no reason why he can't come back next year.
It did run a blinder, legend of a horse in my eyes.
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