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Ming_the_Merciless
17 Mar 13 09:04
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Date Joined: 22 May 09
| Topic/replies: 3,364 | Blogger: Ming_the_Merciless's blog
2014 - can't see him running in the Champion chase unless the 'black aeroplane' is grounded. To me he runs too keen for the Gold Cup.... this leaves the Ryan Air?

seems a waste...
Pause Switch to Standard View Where will Simonsig end up 2014?
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Report peatysandy March 17, 2013 9:25 AM GMT
Has to be Ryanair i s'ppose, also where will Captain Conan end up? Has to be Champion Chase. In my mind would have,at worst really pushed Simonsig this year. Annoying such a good horse ended up in the wrong race.
Report SoYouThink March 17, 2013 10:57 AM GMT
There are uncanny comparisons between Kauto Star/Denman in 2008 to Sprinter Sacre/Simonsig in 2014.

Two stablemates, one characterised by speed and brilliance, the other a little more workmanlike (based on Simonsig's Arkle win at least).

Could we see Sprinter Sacre stick to traditional 2m chase races like the Tingle Creek, the Desert Orchid and the Game Spirit while Simonsig might tackle the odd handicap and travel to Ireland for something like the Dial-A-Bet Chase.

Unlikely.

But it would be nice if it developed into a rivalry similiar to that of Kauto Star and Denman.
Report SirRembrandt March 17, 2013 12:36 PM GMT
Simonsig could start in the PP, then depending on the outcome, go for the KG. NH will want as many arrows at the big pots as possible.
Report Big Bucks John March 17, 2013 2:33 PM GMT
I think SimonSig is an outstanding bet for the queen mother.
Report GoldCupWinner March 20, 2013 11:02 AM GMT
Be interesting to see who Geraghty would be on!
Report BJG March 20, 2013 11:25 AM GMT
Of course he would b on SS - he would nt even have to think about it


Simonsig beat Baily Green flat out by 2l and jumped averagely - will need to show he is a hell of a lot better than that to get within 10l of SS!
Report bluebirdfan March 20, 2013 11:42 AM GMT
King George to see if he stays 3m?
Report nostaw_01 March 20, 2013 9:57 PM GMT
Simply my pocket talking but having backed him at 12/1 for the King George I am hoping they step him up in trip! Not sure the poor scope after the race can be the sole reason for his poor performance (yet he still won an arkle!) but he would have to improve quite a lot to even give SS a race imo. Stepping up in trip seems the only logical thing to do isn't it??
Report Arklearkle March 20, 2013 11:02 PM GMT
SS has proved he is a very very good 2m chaser. Simonsig may eventually do the same thing but he has proved nothing really yet apart from the fact he is a couple of lengths better than Baily Green.
Report gutfeeling March 21, 2013 12:38 AM GMT
I say run him more often and let him have his head over 2m4f+ or put him back over hurdles,The nearest he'll ever get to SS is in the horsebox travelling to the races.
Report cyclops March 21, 2013 11:14 AM GMT
Interesting that the reason Simonsig ran in the Neptune was that Geraghty thought he jumps better off a slower pace, and that certainly seemed to be borne out by his Arkle run which was littered with mistakes, although you could argue that his freshness was to blame. Given all the factors, I think you'll be seeing him over further next season, though they won't be trying him over 3 miles until he's shown he can settle.
Report duffy March 21, 2013 11:42 AM GMT
I'd have thought that simonsig would be very likely to start off in the PP, he's got the horse there waiting and he's only ever won the race once!!
Report Navel-Gazer March 23, 2013 3:45 PM GMT
I seem alone but Simonsig has never given me the same buzz that Sprinter Sacre has...I'd be astonished if they lined up together over 2M and even more so if Simonsig got within 6 lengths!
Report The Sawyer March 23, 2013 4:15 PM GMT
You are not alone Navel
Report duffy March 23, 2013 9:17 PM GMT
curiously as it seems, before the festival, you wouldn't have had to look too far to find plenty who were prepared to say that simonsig was better than SSShocked
Report Navel-Gazer March 23, 2013 9:25 PM GMT
Shameful innit?

I certainly was NOT one of them!
Report mickey March 24, 2013 12:15 AM GMT
Simonsig to the champion with captain conan, sprinter sacre for the gold cup with bobs worth. long run to the national.

at least that's where i would be targeting them at this early stage if they were mine and i wouldn't be put off by that henderson wanting to keep his horses apart bolloks, my horses would go for the right race regardless of trainers other interests.
Report duffy March 24, 2013 12:37 AM GMT
captain conan is fast on his way to being one of the unluckiest horses in training, doesn't stay 2.4 and will run into a brick wall from his other stablemates over 2 miles...his best chance of glory would have been in this years arkle, and he was denied the chance.
Report flyingbolt March 24, 2013 11:53 AM GMT
mickey

On what possible grounds do you consider the Gold Cup to be the "right" race for Sprinter Sacre ?
Report joondalup March 24, 2013 2:29 PM GMT
i will answer that for you mickey,henderson said yesterday that there is not enough 2 mile races for him in a season so thats why he is thinking about 2.5 miles at aintree,after he has turned that into hack canter,they will look at the king george,then onwards and upwards.
Report flyingbolt March 24, 2013 4:28 PM GMT
Dream on.
Report joondalup March 24, 2013 5:02 PM GMT
what tells you he wont,knackerd after 2 miles was he ,breeding on his dams side is all 3 miles,so no dream
Report flyingbolt March 24, 2013 5:14 PM GMT
If you think the fact that he wasn't "knackered" after 2 miles points to him staying 3m 2f then good luck with that project.
Report joondalup March 24, 2013 5:20 PM GMT
but you offer no reason why he wont stay.
Report duffy March 24, 2013 5:29 PM GMT
FB offers no reason why he won't stay in much the same way as no one has ever offered a reason why usain bolt wouldn't win the 1500 metres.!
Report flyingbolt March 24, 2013 5:30 PM GMT
It's my opinion after watching him throughout his career. I first fastened on to the fact that he might be something special when he won that bumper at Ayr on his 2nd run.The following season he made his debut at Ascot over 20f. He looked sure to win turning for home and found nothing and finished 2nd to one of Twiston's.

He's a great horse ,one of the best I've ever seen but at the moment I think he may be a specialist 2 miler.If he does run and win at Aintree then I could see them being tempted by the the King George but I think it would be a mistake.

I really can't see him ever running in a Gold Cup.
Report joondalup March 24, 2013 5:31 PM GMT
never looked into usain bolts breeding,but he would be a place lay for me
Report duffy March 24, 2013 5:32 PM GMT
Grin
Report flyingbolt March 24, 2013 5:32 PM GMT
Bolt's mother stayed 5000m.
Report joondalup March 24, 2013 5:33 PM GMT
your discripsion reads just like desert orchids,now remind me what happened to him
Report flyingbolt March 24, 2013 5:39 PM GMT
It does,joondalup.

Desert Orchid was a horse I got wrong consistently throughout his career until the last season or so.

Will history repeat itself ?
Hopefully not.
Report mickey March 24, 2013 6:34 PM GMT
If you owned the best chaser anybody can remember, you would probably want to win all the best chases, the gold cup is the blue riband and the right race for such a talent.

Taking one race at a time, melling followed by king George perhaps, I would want to test the stamina hinted at in the breeding. If the wheels fall off at any point he can always be rerouted to the CC, if not immortality awaits.
Report Navel-Gazer March 24, 2013 6:46 PM GMT
Mickey...there's the 'Holy Grail' of an unbeaten chasing record to protect, and that's NEVER been done in the highest NH grade.
Connections' fear of losing that record is sure to compromise your optimism for the Gold Cup, and put it on the back burner for a couple of years at least!

I don't think the King George is a pipe-dream though, and if he runs at Aintree, I think there's every chance it'll be considered if he shows no sign of stopping - that 6/1 with the bookies will shrivel up!
Report Navel-Gazer March 24, 2013 6:47 PM GMT
PS - I forgot about Big Buck's Blush although he's a hurdler.
Report joondalup March 24, 2013 7:22 PM GMT
Navel where did you hear that the connections fear losing a unbeaten record i cant believe thats ever been said
Report joondalup March 24, 2013 7:30 PM GMT
you think big bucks is unbeaten
Report Navel-Gazer March 24, 2013 7:59 PM GMT
Joondalup - I didn't hear it...I just suspect it could be a factor that decides where he goes.

That's why Big Buck's doesn't step down and have a bash at the 20f merchants, as the 3M options have been promoted to Grade One status, and are penalty kicks.
PS - he IS an unbeaten hurdler...at least on these shores.
Report joondalup March 24, 2013 8:12 PM GMT
i assume you ment 16 furlong merchants,hurdles chases all under national hunt rules so he is not unbeaten
Report Navel-Gazer March 24, 2013 8:20 PM GMT
No...I meant 20f - it would've been very interesting to see him against Oscar Whiskey in the Aintree Hurdle over the last few years.

Do you not consider Sprinter Sacre to be an unbeaten chaser? Surprised
Report joondalup March 24, 2013 8:27 PM GMT
of coarse he is not unbeaten you started the holy grail thingb not me
Report wellchief March 24, 2013 8:45 PM GMT
Simonsig should be stepped up in trip imo.

I've backed him for the KG and Gold Cup, but without pocket talking I would still go for the King George and see from there.

I'd campaign him like For Non Stop did this year, with the Old Roan at Aintree, the Amlin Chase and then I'd look at the King George.  If he wins there then all roads must lead to the Gold Cup, and if he looks like a non stayer like Cue Card, then the Ryanair would be the obvious choice.
Report wellchief March 24, 2013 8:47 PM GMT
' Sorry, I meant like For Non Stop until the KG.
Report nostaw_01 March 24, 2013 9:39 PM GMT
I heard on ATR today that Caroline Mould has said SS wouldn't be tried any further than 2m4f.
Report Navel-Gazer March 25, 2013 9:37 PM GMT
Harchinative - I go by what I see on the track as the real evidence because just how often are they galloped at home, jumping at full pelt over the trip they run at in their big races?

We ALL know the answer is NEVER and if we listened to trainers' views about what happens at home, we'd have a dozen potential Sprinter Sacres every season!
Even the best of trainers think their geese are swans.
Report Navel-Gazer March 25, 2013 9:45 PM GMT
PS - I have to concede it usually takes me a while before I get 'convinced' of a horse's quality as I've seen so many false dawns...even Kauto Star & Denman had rattled up a few Grade Ones before I became a real believer, though Sprinter Sacre really did grab my attention (unusually early for me) with his win in the Game Spirit.

Sometimes I see an outstanding performance from a novice (like Hurricane Fly against Go Native) that makes me take note and I earmark them as potential candidates that could go to the very top (and by that time, everyone else has) but it's something I prefer to avoid.
Report Navel-Gazer March 25, 2013 10:01 PM GMT
To a small degree I suppose, but as I said, they're not bottomed at home - also, I like to go for the value so that dictates where my money goes.

I can be a bit harsh with my views about champions sometimes...I still don't forgive Simonsig for curling up in a ball against Fingal Bay last year yet conveniently, when it suits my argument Devil I can readily airbrush Sprinter Sacre's below par run against Frascati Park!

Admittedly, both were over longer trips but they were very disappointing.

PS - trainers & jockeys regularly get things very wrong...I was really hot on Hey Big Spender at The Festival at 33/1 and he ran a stinker (under the stable jockey) and the other unconsidered second string waltzed up! It happens regularly, so I ignore a lot of what I hear & read.
Report bluebirdfan March 27, 2013 12:18 PM GMT
Simonsig should be aimed at the Gold Cup next year, if he doesn't stay then will be a ready made Ryanair contender
Report buddeliea March 27, 2013 5:31 PM GMT
Well i have had a slice of the 14 with vc nrfb for the Champion Hurdle.

Cant see him going 2m with SS about. May not stay 3m,so whats left then,the Ryanair!!

Could just be the owners may fancy a crack at the CH,and he would have a major chance,we all know that.
Report duffy March 27, 2013 10:44 PM GMT
So many variables, what happens if SS wins next week on the snaff by 10 lengths which as we all know is quite likely, (I'm a flemenstar fan incidentally)  might they start thinking about the KG with him and that could hold simonsig back with regards stepping up

or...another scenario

If they are going to look at the KG with simonsig, and he progresses to it and then it doesn't work out, would it be reasonable to abort fences altogether mid season or would it be wiser to simply revert back to the ryanair and wait till the following season for a full hurdling program.
Report buddeliea March 28, 2013 7:00 AM GMT
indeed Duffy,many variables.
hes a horse that would have a serious chance in a CHurdle,no doubt in my mind,and if it becomes apparent that hes a Ryanair horse,well i know what i what i would want as an owner,CH every time.
hes proved he can jump a fence,although not that great in the Arkle but seems to be reasons behind that,so he can revert back ok i would think.
Anyway,whatever happens,lets hope they dont end up making a hash up of it all,as seems to be happening with Oscar Whisky!!!!
Report kavvie March 29, 2013 12:25 PM GMT
what race is simonsig running in at aintree.
Report Howdi March 31, 2013 6:29 PM BST
By: This user is online. joondalup Date Joined: 29 Nov 06
Add contact | Send message When: 24 Mar 13 21:27 Joined: Date Joined: 29 Nov 06 | Topic/replies: 244 | Blogger: joondalup's blog
of coarse he is not unbeaten you started the holy grail thingb not me

is that how you spell coarse Love fecking simpleton if you ask me. (course)
Report abbott March 31, 2013 10:29 PM BST
Kavvie he goes to Ayr
Report BarryM April 28, 2013 1:01 AM BST
The way the Arkle form is working out he might end up at Cartmel
Report BarryM April 28, 2013 1:01 AM BST
Serious answer - Champion Hurdle.
Report JamesRB June 23, 2013 11:23 AM BST
as a fan of the horse i'd love to see him go back hurdling. he could win a champion hurdle and aside from MTOY hendo doesn't seem to have any other contenders for next season.

in terms of chasing it's hard to see him, or anyone, beating the aeroplane, not sure 3m chases would be his bag unless he settles much better. 2m4/ryanair will probably end up being the choice which is a shame for a horse with so much talent imo.
Report deepingfox July 5, 2013 10:56 PM BST
He should have gone Champion Hurdle this year, and won it.
Next years will be much, much tougher, with Our Conor, Jezki, The New One and MTOY chasing home the winner UN DE SCEAUX.

As for Simonsig, I would love to see a dash for the King George and then the Gold Cup, he has to be in the first 3 in the betting now, if it was named as his plan, and probably fav if he won the King George.
Report buddeliea July 6, 2013 5:46 AM BST
Needs to improve a fair bit on his Arkle performance to reach the top over fences.
Of course he could do, but for me he should go back hurdling and go for what I consider to be his best chance of a big race victory at next years festival, the Champion Hurdle.
Report Wayward Lad July 9, 2013 1:13 PM BST
My opinion is that Simonsig did not have a "bad day at the office" when scraping home in the Arkle, that is just about how good he is. He was able to take advantage of a weak "Neptune" hurdle (runner-up Felix Younger is now rated OR145) and then followed-up beating OR142 rated Super Duty even easier. Remember, he was put firmly in his place by Fingal Bay over 2m4f at Sandown.
He won a couple of non-event novice chases off the back of which he was rated OR160 and then, when finally asked a question in the Arkle, he struggled to convincingly beat the (at the time) OR147 rated Baily Green - a horse competing in his 16th chase.

I really cannot see how anyone can rate Simonsig much over OR155 as a chaser or as a hurdler, so he needs to find 20lb in either sphere if he's going to be competitive next season in the top races.

Personally, I'd step him up to 3-mile and revert him to hurdles as the quality he does seem to have is stamina.
Report Howdi July 12, 2013 11:50 AM BST
I still think he is a cracker but that arkle looks crap looking back I'd have finished 3rd.
Report duffy July 16, 2013 11:29 PM BST
nice to keep a few of the threads going through the dark months, what I find quite unusual is how some posters disappear after the jumps are finished and aren't sighted through the summer months...it's still racing/gambling after all.
Report Mr Eboue July 17, 2013 6:53 PM BST
I despise flat racing.


If I could I'd hibernate for the Summer months.
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