Right guys as expected this years Arkle looks like it's boiled down to a two horse race. Can't wait to see it!! Overturn blasting off in front and BG following on Simonsig waiting to pounce. How do you think it's going to play out? I'm a HUGE Simonsig fan and am on him at 6/1! Should be one of the races of the meeting!! BRING IT ON!!
Every year there is a clutch of very short priced favourites and the only certainty is that they never all win. I backed Simonsig last September when there was some nonsense about him running in the Champion Hurdle snd he drifted out to 6/1 on here. I'm confident that he will win but not as confident as last year with the monster, who I believed unbeatable.
Now now girls behave.....still 10 days to go.Every year there is a clutch of very short priced favourites and the only certainty is that they never all win. I backed Simonsig last September when there was some nonsense about him running in the Champi
Back to adulthood it is then (soz trymybest fun while it lasted), i'm round about at festivalfanatics confidence level - just a chink of light, and not all 4 of the first day hotpots are going in are they?
Back to adulthood it is then (soz trymybest fun while it lasted), i'm round about at festivalfanatics confidence level - just a chink of light, and not all 4 of the first day hotpots are going in are they?
Absolute folly to say Overturn wont get Simonsig off the bit. Yes its possible,but theres no evidence on the track to say which of these is the best 2m chaser,let alone talking about one being so inferior as to not being able to get the other off the bit.
Absolute folly to say Overturn wont get Simonsig off the bit.Yes its possible,but theres no evidence on the track to say which of these is the best 2m chaser,let alone talking about one being so inferior as to not being able to get the other off the
Hurdle ratings don't matter ? Should be banned from the forum IMO before you lose all ur money. Care to take a guess at how many top rated hurdles in the filed have won the last 12 runnings of the arkle ? As for not getting Simonsig of the bridle. Overturn may not win but in a coin flip it is certainly value. 11 to 4 has to be a bet and from what it's shown so far must be a bet to lay in running as it will trade shorter,
Hurdle ratings don't matter ? Should be banned from the forum IMO before you lose all ur money. Care to take a guess at how many top rated hurdles in the filed have won the last 12 runnings of the arkle ? As for not getting Simonsig of the bridle. Ov
at a preview tonight and the general view was that he could do the milk round in the morning and still win the arkle in the afternoon, Barry ger was very keen on him.
at a preview tonight and the general view was that he could do the milk round in the morning and still win the arkle in the afternoon, Barry ger was very keen on him.
they ran him over the longer distance because connections said the way he can sometimes miss a hurdle out that it would give him more time at his hurdles. BG said that he needed a fence. don't worry about his pace Hendo said he worked with a 10 furlong horse rated 114 and murdered him. BG also said there wouldne be many horses at Hendos stable that could go with him over a mile.
they ran him over the longer distance because connections said the way he can sometimes miss a hurdle out that it would give him more time at his hurdles. BG said that he needed a fence. don't worry about his pace Hendo said he worked with a 10 furlo
Firstly, I dont think NJH has an 114 horse on the flat, second, he would need to beat him as Overturn is 112 on the flat.
Don't get me wrong, I am not totally against Simonsig but I couldnt back him at current prices. Good luck to those with nice AP vouchers
Firstly, I dont think NJH has an 114 horse on the flat, second, he would need to beat him as Overturn is 112 on the flat.Don't get me wrong, I am not totally against Simonsig but I couldnt back him at current prices. Good luck to those with nice AP
it wasin his racing post stable tour were Hendo said about stuffing a 114 flat horse on the gallops. if Overturn is rated 112 then it must aurgur very well for Simonsig that he murdered a horse rated 114.
it wasin his racing post stable tour were Hendo said about stuffing a 114 flat horse on the gallops. if Overturn is rated 112 then it must aurgur very well for Simonsig that he murdered a horse rated 114.
had a look at his coments again and he doesn't mention the horses name. if it was FV then he still looked to have most if not all of his old ability when he hacked up last week. Simonsig FINALLY got his workout with Groundout and Megalypos completed. Henderson said. "They worked over a mile and a quarter and they went a real good gallop". He also said "Simonsig was simply fantastic, he was some sight in full flow". I'm glad he got that out of the way.
had a look at his coments again and he doesn't mention the horses name. if it was FV then he still looked to have most if not all of his old ability when he hacked up last week. Simonsig FINALLY got his workout with Groundout and Megalypos completed.
the variance between simonsigs price and overturns is daft in my view, wjhat he feck has simonsig beaten? fk all, i doubt hed begood enough to frame in a champion hurdle (overturn was ). i fully accept that simonsigs a l;vely prospect but over fences that all he is a prospect.
the variance between simonsigs price and overturns is daft in my view, wjhat he feck has simonsig beaten? fk all, i doubt hed begood enough to frame in a champion hurdle (overturn was ). i fully accept that simonsigs a l;vely prospect but over fenc
Just because Overturn MAY have achieved more over hurdles does not mean he will best him over fences! Simonsig has huge potential and if memory serves me right didn't Al ferof beat a certain Sprinter Sacre in the Supreme novices before bring stuffed by him in the following seasons Arkle?
Just because Overturn MAY have achieved more over hurdles does not mean he will best him over fences! Simonsig has huge potential and if memory serves me right didn't Al ferof beat a certain Sprinter Sacre in the Supreme novices before bring stuffed
overturns a great bet has looked unbelievable over fences simonsig makes one mistake he will pay,going to be an exciting race whatver happens can see simonsig fav for ryanair next year think his trip will be 2 and 1/2
overturns a great bet has looked unbelievable over fences simonsig makes one mistake he will pay,going to be an exciting race whatver happens can see simonsig fav for ryanair next year think his trip will be 2 and 1/2
the only sensible bet on overturn in my view would be to bet it now and hope he trades shorter in running so that you can trade out with a profit, i personally think he will fall short of being good enough to cope with simonsig and he may easily do too much too early and risk being out of the places alltogether come the business end of the race, difficult though it is to see whch horses might be good enough to pass him other than simonsig. best of luckt to all who have backed overturn but for me i can see simonsig taking it up after 3 out and being as ready a winner of the arkle if not more so than sprinter sacre last year.
the only sensible bet on overturn in my view would be to bet it now and hope he trades shorter in running so that you can trade out with a profit, i personally think he will fall short of being good enough to cope with simonsig and he may easily do t
giggsy,you must be expecting Overturn to clout one then,if you are bringing up last years Arkle!!
Major difference mate,Overturn is a natural front runner.
giggsy,you must be expecting Overturn to clout one then,if you are bringing up last years Arkle!!Major difference mate,Overturn is a natural front runner.
grw123 I have not seen evidence of Overturn 'overracing' from the front, and I only rate that prospect equally likely as Simonsig awkward at a couple and potential playing catch up.
grw123 I have not seen evidence of Overturn 'overracing' from the front, and I only rate that prospect equally likely as Simonsig awkward at a couple and potential playing catch up.
Speaking to Henderson's assistant trainer last night at preview night.I'm now even more convinced than I was before that Simonsig will skate up.The faster they go the better and nothing can live with him at home.Asked him if lack of chasing experience could be a problem.Emphatically no was the answer.Had a slight trachea problem earlier in the season nothing major though and they are very bullish.
Speaking to Henderson's assistant trainer last night at preview night.I'm now even more convinced than I was before that Simonsig will skate up.The faster they go the better and nothing can live with him at home.Asked him if lack of chasing experienc
I agree that the faster Overturn goes the more it will suit Simonsig. If Overturn tries to mess about and try to slow the pace down the back straight BG will just power on and race will be over. I think we're going to witness something very special from Simonsig next Tue!!!
I agree that the faster Overturn goes the more it will suit Simonsig. If Overturn tries to mess about and try to slow the pace down the back straight BG will just power on and race will be over. I think we're going to witness something very special f
Indeed he is, and all the money has dried up wanting to back him in Jewson though refreshing to see that no one is laying anything juicy! I recently backed this fellow for the jewson without nrnb, so do hope he goes that way! Looking at his form though he does not scream 2 miler to me, he looks a proper 2.5miler, though the conditions of an Arkle could be right up his street too! Add be surprised if they go Arkle and think hes only left in at this stage as a precautionary measure. I hope !
Indeed he is, and all the money has dried up wanting to back him in Jewson though refreshing to see that no one is laying anything juicy! I recently backed this fellow for the jewson without nrnb, so do hope he goes that way! Looking at his form thou
They have been avoiding soft ground with Overturn like the plague this season, but will put up with it for the Arkle rather than not run on it. But the fact they have ducked it all season suggests he is unlikely to be able to run to his best on it so the ground hugely favous Simonsig.
They have been avoiding soft ground with Overturn like the plague this season, but will put up with it for the Arkle rather than not run on it. But the fact they have ducked it all season suggests he is unlikely to be able to run to his best on it so
Henderson may be able to sucker David Pipe, but he doesn't fool me. The 'we will avoid Dynaste in the Jewson' was to get Dynaste out of the RSA to make way for Hadrians Approach, because they will believe Conan has a better chance to win against him that H.A does, plus the RSA is a better race.
Henderson may be able to sucker David Pipe, but he doesn't fool me. The 'we will avoid Dynaste in the Jewson' was to get Dynaste out of the RSA to make way for Hadrians Approach, because they will believe Conan has a better chance to win against him
giggsy , to be fair how much shorter could simonsig really get?peoplesay hurdle form is not relevant which is quite crazy, of course its not everytin and simonsig may well prove to be the better chaser, i just think that as we know overturn jumps ok simonsigs gonna have to beat a champion hurdle class horse on pure abilty.people seem to be taking simonsigs jumping as a given , agrred hes jumped ok in beating those trees hes met sofar and he may well jump even better at the certain fast pace that overturn will set , then again his jumping may fall apart.
giggsy , to be fair how much shorter could simonsig really get?peoplesay hurdle form is not relevant which is quite crazy, of course its not everytin and simonsig may well prove to be the better chaser, i just think that as we know overturn jump
fair to say hiterlands not tree but itis a bit of a softie. the difference in my view is that simonsigs priced up like hes beaten something.strickly on what hes done over fences i personally (only my view) is a daft price.his latest victim took forever to scramble hom in a real poor race at folkstone , of course he could only bear him pointless but youd expect nothing less. lets just say both simon and overturn do jump well i the race (not a given thing either or both may be found out round chelters) , ok what proof is there to say simonsig has anymore abilty than overturn? simonsig looks a lovely horse and could possibly turn out to be the better of the two horses but at 8/11 and 5/2 theres a dft difference in price. if simonsig had run in last years champion hurdle hed have had to outrun his price by someway to place in the event yes? probably youd have to say overturns run suggests hes the better hurdler.
fair to say hiterlands not tree but itis a bit of a softie. the difference in my view is that simonsigs priced up like hes beaten something.strickly on what hes done over fences i personally (only my view) is a daft price.his latest victim took fo
Overturn is a proven class hurdler who can jump a fence well,so as far as i am concerned i dont care if he has beaten trees. Simonsig however was a novice hurdler. Their is no clear evidence that says Simon is a better chaser than Overturn. Main problem Overturn has now is the likely ground.
Overturn is a proven class hurdler who can jump a fence well,so as far as i am concerned i dont care if he has beaten trees.Simonsig however was a novice hurdler.Their is no clear evidence that says Simon is a better chaser than Overturn.Main problem
i think youve summed it up perfectly but "theres no evidence" , i think when or if you choose to bet odds on you should require proof that the horse represts this price on what hes done rather than 2may do", like most people i wouldnt be astounded if simonsig wins. this wont be the first "match race" where something upset the applecart.
i think youve summed it up perfectly but "theres no evidence" , i think when or if you choose to bet odds on you should require proof that the horse represts this price on what hes done rather than 2may do", like most people i wouldnt be astou
Has everyone missed the fact that it is now going 2 b run on SOFT ground?? Overturn needs at least good/soft ground 2 have a chance of beating Simonsig! McCain has confirmed this issue many times! He's going 2 b a sitting duck from the top of the hill. If he goes off too fast then there is a chance he won't even be placed.
Has everyone missed the fact that it is now going 2 b run on SOFT ground?? Overturn needs at least good/soft ground 2 have a chance of beating Simonsig! McCain has confirmed this issue many times! He's going 2 b a sitting duck from the top of the hil
That's it I give up! Go ahead and waste u'r money on Overturn but there'll be a big fat I TOLD YA SO when he doesn't act on the ground and gets stuffed!
That's it I give up! Go ahead and waste u'r money on Overturn but there'll be a big fat I TOLD YA SO when he doesn't act on the ground and gets stuffed!
I think its fair to say they would prefer better ground for Overturn but i dont think its clear cut that he cant win on soft ground. I wont be betting in the race but i hope nothing catches Overturn. Hard not to love a horse like him.
I think its fair to say they would prefer better ground for Overturn but i dont think its clear cut that he cant win on soft ground. I wont be betting in the race but i hope nothing catches Overturn. Hard not to love a horse like him.
I have ALWAYS had confidence in Simonsig winning the Arkle. The ground going against Overturn has now made me even more confident. The only worry I had was if Overturn blasted off on good ground and jumped brilliantly. In that case he might have made Simonsig work for it. Now he going to have to try it on ground that everyone including connections know he isn't at his best on. If he goes off too fast he won't get home. If he tries to set a slower pace then he'll be taken on by Arvika and possibly Majalla and again have no chance. If he wins I'll be the 1st to say I was wrong but whatever way the race is run I can't see him winning on soft ground.
I have ALWAYS had confidence in Simonsig winning the Arkle. The ground going against Overturn has now made me even more confident. The only worry I had was if Overturn blasted off on good ground and jumped brilliantly. In that case he might have made
i don't think we have enough evidence of how Overturn will perform on really soft going BUT as a Chester Cup winner he's shown already he can keep up a good gallop and stay 2m at flat speed which is half a stride faster than jumps. Saw Overturn win at Musselburgh and although I'm pretty sure Tetlami had an off day, Overturn just kept accelerating. Musselburgh totally different track of course but if Overturn handles the undulations at Cheltenham, Simonsig is going to have to go faster than he has over fences to date, to keep tabs and who knows how each will then handle the jumping. At the prices it will be Overturn for me.
i don't think we have enough evidence of how Overturn will perform on really soft going BUT as a Chester Cup winner he's shown already he can keep up a good gallop and stay 2m at flat speed which is half a stride faster than jumps. Saw Overturn win
I was at Chester on Chester Cup day this year when Overturn finished second, and despite being described as soft the conditions really were desperate. Obviously totally different jumping, but to perform that well in those conditions does give me some hope.
I was at Chester on Chester Cup day this year when Overturn finished second, and despite being described as soft the conditions really were desperate. Obviously totally different jumping, but to perform that well in those conditions does give me some
And what weight was he carrying in the Chester cup? At a guess I'd say it was a couple of STONE less than he will be having to carry on Tue. No wonder he was able to keep up s good gallop all the way. Also how can u compare running round in a circle at Chester and the demands ofChelteham? Your right about 1 thing NH soft is a lot softer than soft on the flat.
And what weight was he carrying in the Chester cup? At a guess I'd say it was a couple of STONE less than he will be having to carry on Tue. No wonder he was able to keep up s good gallop all the way. Also how can u compare running round in a circle
When Overturn was beat on soft at Chester he was joint top-weight - you see Chester Cup is a handicap - giving winner 13lbs! So the actual weight carried means nothing in the Arkle because they'll all be level weights
When Overturn was beat on soft at Chester he was joint top-weight - you see Chester Cup is a handicap - giving winner 13lbs! So the actual weight carried means nothing in the Arkle because they'll all be level weights
giggsy, don't think it's smart to attack the poster for making a comment about overturn perhaps being able to handle soft ground. Good point, I had forgot about this years Chester Cup where he did run well despite trying to give Il De Rea 13lbs!
Also you say what weight was he carrying, well he was carrying top weight like Gordon said so I don't see your point on that front?
giggsy, don't think it's smart to attack the poster for making a comment about overturn perhaps being able to handle soft ground. Good point, I had forgot about this years Chester Cup where he did run well despite trying to give Il De Rea 13lbs! Also
I'm an overturn fan but the ground is a big worry now isn't it, he needs to get into that fast, slick rhythm jumping from fence to fence, that's when he'd have a good chance I thought of getting the fav. into trouble, anything that interferes with that and gives simonsig that bit of respite in behind isn't good news for overturn backers.
I'm an overturn fan but the ground is a big worry now isn't it, he needs to get into that fast, slick rhythm jumping from fence to fence, that's when he'd have a good chance I thought of getting the fav. into trouble, anything that interferes with th
Mccain acknowledges that the soft ground is a worry, he says he'll handle it, but he says it in a way not dissimilar to say how some bloke may handle the mother-in- law coming round for the week-end, yeh, you'll get through it, but it won't be a pleasant experience.
Mccain acknowledges that the soft ground is a worry, he says he'll handle it, but he says it in a way not dissimilar to say how some bloke may handle the mother-in- law coming round for the week-end, yeh, you'll get through it, but it won't be a plea
Yeh,its a worry for Overturn. I have him from ages ago at 9/1,but no way would i back him at current price on the likely going. Hes still a chance,but it is diminished a tad now.
Yeh,its a worry for Overturn.I have him from ages ago at 9/1,but no way would i back him at current price on the likely going.Hes still a chance,but it is diminished a tad now.
point i was making giggsy is that they have largely avoided soft ground with the horse, but he performed with great credit on what was probably the softest ground he encountered. so despite the apparent reservations of the the trainer, we cant be sure the horse wont put in a big performance. as for the demands of cheltenham, he has ran very well there before so i dont see that being a massive concern. i think the positions in the market of the two are correct, but im a huge fan of overturn as every challenge thrown in front of him he seemingly rises to.
point i was making giggsy is that they have largely avoided soft ground with the horse, but he performed with great credit on what was probably the softest ground he encountered. so despite the apparent reservations of the the trainer, we cant be sur
MACKIES he may have run well on FLAT soft around a tight course like Chester and run very well on fast ground at Cheltenham but its the combination of soft and a demanding course that will be the problem. I'll admit that he always tries his heart out but at Cheltenham you need virtually everything in your favour and ground not being in your favour is a major negative.
MACKIES he may have run well on FLAT soft around a tight course like Chester and run very well on fast ground at Cheltenham but its the combination of soft and a demanding course that will be the problem. I'll admit that he always tries his heart out
I REALLY hate to say it but......................I TOLD YA SO!!!!! I knew Overturn would get stuffed and I even said that he wouldn't get placed. Ok Simonsig wasn't overly impressive but he won despite s lot going against him!
I REALLY hate to say it but......................I TOLD YA SO!!!!! I knew Overturn would get stuffed and I even said that he wouldn't get placed. Ok Simonsig wasn't overly impressive but he won despite s lot going against him!
Get in Simonsig. Was a bit worried when he made a mistake, but it was good that he won me some cash today; anyone know where he goes next, as i also have him in a bet to remain unbeaten for the season?
Get in Simonsig. Was a bit worried when he made a mistake, but it was good that he won me some cash today; anyone know where he goes next, as i also have him in a bet to remain unbeaten for the season?
Went past Overturn like it was standing still after running with the choke out all the way and jumping sloppily.See the hurdle ratings were really relevant.The silence is almost deafening.
Went past Overturn like it was standing still after running with the choke out all the way and jumping sloppily.See the hurdle ratings were really relevant.The silence is almost deafening.
Simonsig was very green and won almost in spite of himself. I think they'll up him in trip next season. He won't beat the monster over 2 miles as long as he has a hole in his ar*e.
Simonsig was very green and won almost in spite of himself. I think they'll up him in trip next season. He won't beat the monster over 2 miles as long as he has a hole in his ar*e.
they'll have to get him to settle before they even think about putting him up in trip. henderson seems to think he's a 2 miler but they will have to run him against Sprinter all season if they stick to 2 miles.
they'll have to get him to settle before they even think about putting him up in trip. henderson seems to think he's a 2 miler but they will have to run him against Sprinter all season if they stick to 2 miles.
Well done winners. I dont think Arvika and Overturn did each other any favours, and i have no doubt they will both be better chasers than they showed yesterday, but despite the proximity of Baily Green the best horse won and is open to any amount of improvement.
Well done winners. I dont think Arvika and Overturn did each other any favours, and i have no doubt they will both be better chasers than they showed yesterday, but despite the proximity of Baily Green the best horse won and is open to any amount of
Could there be something up with McCains horses some very bad runs from his stable yesterday (Cinders and Ashes, Krushlin)and to be fair Overturn was beaten before his mistake. Well done all Simonsig backers.
Could there be something up with McCains horses some very bad runs from his stable yesterday (Cinders and Ashes, Krushlin)and to be fair Overturn was beaten before his mistake. Well done all Simonsig backers.