Cheltenham Festival
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I will be using this thread to keep track of the record of this trainers top horses when they go chasing in the big races. I''m looking for consistancy, and less of the stag one race, cow the next race combination i've come to witness from his better thought of chasers in recent years.
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Save your faces
For the bigger races  |
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I do actually see the angle you're coming from Graeme, so no funny faces from me.
Some of his big fancies win a big race every now and then, but I can see that you mean the likes of Cooldine, Kempes (RIP), Quel Esprit etc didn't then go on and win consecutive open company Grade 1 races; whereas a Henderson or Nicholls can get the same horses winning multiple G1 races in a season, or over the course of a few seasons. He did have the likes of Golden Silver (RIP) who used to mop them up, but he usually racing against much inferior opposition. I do, however, rate Willie very highly though, and would never see him as training a chaser as a negative. |
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Yes Wellchief, he can really get his horses to win big races. I can't really question that. I could be scraping the barel, but perhaps Willies apprehension can effect some of his horses confidence. Sometimes before the festival he has the nervous disposition of a schoolboy in line for the flu jab. He also seems willing to talk after he wins, and not so much when he loses. Trainers like Nicholls and Henderson seem to be able to put things into perspective that bit quicker. Let's see how the like of arvika, Bob Worth and SDC do in there next few races. I hope they do well.
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* Boston Bob
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Aupcharlie seems to have hit one at the end of his last couple of races. Arvika is coming up tomorrow, it will be interesting to see how he jumps.
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Arvika falls. I'm begining to see another pattern emerge here. The people who are convinced that SDC is a good price at 5/1 must be a little nervous.
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I think SDC is an appalling price regardless of what happens with his other runners.
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Ah but Sint, he's priced up like a horse who hasn't made jumping errors in 2 of his last 3 races. If he had jumped well LTO, he would've won and the price would have been not too bad.
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What a load of p!sh. Arvika Legionnaire falls so it makes SDC fans nervous?
 Fackin nonsense man 2 from 2 at Cheltenham Festival and who gives a toss about the warm-ups? Being trained to win a Gold Cup |
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It's his chasers not jumping, so if yet another of his top chasers fails to cut the mustard, then yes it would make SDC backers nervous, as the pattern is now emerging. Cheltenham has nothing to do with his jumping issues in 2 of his last 3 races. I wouldn't put anyone off backing his, but the consitency isn't there over the bigger obstacles. When it comes to get a chaser preped race in, race out, then i have to say that Mullins isn't up to the standard of Paul Nicholls for example. The Wylie's should have sent Boston Bob to PN. That's my opinion.
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Haven't you backed SDC for the Gold Cup?
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How many times has SDC fallen?
How many times has he ran at Cheltenham and how many times did he win? How many chases has Willie Mullins won at Cheltenham? How many chases has Boston Bob ran in?Has he been beaten over fences? This thread is ridiculous to be honest!! Kauto Star fell in a Gold Cup for Paul Nicholls and Denman fell when 1/6 shot no? All trainers have chasers who fall - that's life |
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I've stated on numerous occasions that i have, and i've also stated that if i take a price in a Mullins chaser, i now see it as a negative that is incorporated into any price i take. I have backed some of his this season, but i'll be backing his more sparingly in future.
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Sorry Graeme...but I just have to laugh at this. Willie Mullins chasers fall alert everybody but erm I've backed SDC at single figures. c'mon man....
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Why are the Mullin's trained chasers of interest regarding their jumping.?
Are you looking for a betting angle of laying/Backing certain types in certain races or just grinding a axe.? Just wondering. |
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This thread has been made after the season has started, and since yet more of his better chasers have devoloped problems. I backed SDC back in March. I didn't think that even he could screw up a horse who jumped like SDC did in the Jewson. I genuinely believe that if Mouse Morris or Paul Nicholls trained these horses such as Boston Bob and SDC, that we wouldn't be having this conversation. Can you seriously tell me that you'd be as confident backing a chaser with Mullins as you would with Nicholls or Morris et al ?
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"Are you looking for a betting angle of laying/Backing certain types in certain races or just grinding a axe.?"
I mentioned it in the Boston Bob thread, but Byrne asked me if i could not talk about it on that particular thread, so i thought i'd make one. A few posters thought i was wrong, so i thought i'd make a thread. I think i'm right, and i'm highlighting something i think punters should take into consideration. Howard Johson took some flack, so i don't see why Mullins isn't fair game. |
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Although I do think the handling of Boston Bob this season has been rather shoddy (getting fed up seeing him entered and being pulled out and concerned that he has had only one run so far) as well as the fact that we all know the trainer talks utter p!sh half the time he's still not half bad.
Nicholls is a better trainer for me yes and Mouse Morris knows how to train one - agree - but I don't have any nerves backing a Mullins chaser at the Cheltenham Festival with a decent chance. Think the thread is unfair to be honest |
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Fair enough,
I just thought if it was for a betting angle you might look at a few more trainers than just WM is all, Good luck and lets hope SDC has had a bit of schooling since the Lexus. |
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Nicholls last chase win at the festival was.............
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That's not a pertinent question
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"Good luck and lets hope SDC has had a bit of schooling since the Lexus. "
Yeah. I hope he wins mate. |
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Colmaaca
now that is a tester,Kauto star unbelievable |
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Think this is a good thread myself.
See absolutely nowt wrong with someone voicing their concerns about a trainer,especially as it seems theres some evidence that gives him a case. |
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Willie's ninth Hennessy winner,not bad for a trainer, who can't train chasers and BB obliges as well, over a trip shorter than ideal.
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This thread is going well eh?
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It's not supposed to do well. I said at the end om my third post that i hope they do well(the horses). Two of his 4 best chasers had jumping issues LTO in Arvika and Aupcharlie. I also used the word conistency, which the trainer himself would look for, as do all others, so i hardly thinking bumping the thread after a race or two is any use. You also brought thsi thread up at 9 in the morning, so i'm mildly alarmed at what time you may have been thinking of me from. Did you have any breakfast ?
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Update on the Oirish Howard Johnston :-
Ponte Alexandre(out), Un Atout(out), Sanctuaire(no longer with us, (did R Walsh get him transfered?). The focus is now on Champagne Fever you'd have to say, and also Felix Yonger, especially after Boston Bob was so poorly handled. It's a coincidence that Ruby became homesick in the same year Mullins has a wickedly strong string. |
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Sanctuair died on the gallops.
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You could do the same for any trainer Graeme.
Nicky Henderson: Simonsig (out) Grandouet (fell) Long Run and Bobs Worth (what's happening - poorly handled?) Horses get injured and some unfortunately fatally so. It happens to all trainers. With Mullins having such a powerful and large team of horses it's little surprise that he'll have a few injured every year. Comparing him to Howard Johnson is pretty pathetic. |
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I know Sint. Tommy, don't be daft by comparing Long Run and Bobs Worth to any Mullins has trained recently. They two have won all sorts. Simonsig will be out shortly, so again that's pish. The Howard Johnston label is obviously for a bit of banter, but also because i think Boston Bob would improve if here went somewhere else. The fact is Mullins is top notch when it comes to hurdles, but alot of the success he gets are from horses who are ready made from France, by French trainers. He's not doing all the tough work that he gets the credit for. Ballycasey looks good, and you got a goof price so good luck there. I'll watch with interest to see how Champagne Fever does when the fences come quicker.
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What i said about the French horse cna be attributed to alot of these trainers. I saw someone make a good point about this a few days ago.
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Fair enough Graeme, I don't agree but there you go.
I think you're being harsh on him. Over the past few seasons there have been a number of mediocre animals transferred to Mullins that have cantered home in handicaps (I'm talking about animals at the lower end of the scale), imo showing that animals improve significantly under his care. Thousand Stars improved stones under Mullins. The only top chasers he's had in recent seasons are Sir Des Champs and Golden Silver and they've won plenty. I just find it odd that you've singled out Mullins. Take Meade for example, how many top animals has he had in recent years that have become injured? Nicanor, Aran Concerto, Go Native, Pandorama. A very high percentage of his best horses. I just think injuries etc. happen to all trainers over time and there'll be years when some trainers are hit harder than others. Thanks re Ballycasey  Looked outpaced with half a mile to go but as soon as they met the rising ground the front two started to waver while he hit top gear. RSA looks open at this stage but hopefully that's where he'll end up. Really looking forward to seeing Bright New Dawn this week, he's another I want to see over a fence sooner rather than later. |
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Does anyone have an update on SDC ?
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In his RUK column Ruby said he was okay on Monday morning thankfully, was a horrible fall so great news.
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In his RUK column Ruby said he was okay on Monday morning thankfully, was a horrible fall so great news.
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That's good news. Let's hope he runs well over Christmas. It should be a good race.
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ttt
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