cinders and ashes.

I have backed the same horse. Faith in a gambling context is the day you saw something worth putting money on. If you regret the money you have put down, you are growing as a punter, and becoming an atheist against your own selection. We can only look at fact, and contradict the facts with a measure of hope. He has been pumped both times this season, but he needs a very fast gallop on better ground. I've not given up.

The 2 main things this horse needs, and i think everyone on here agrees with, is good ground and a very fast pace to run off! He is almost guaranteed both at the festival!

Backed at 10s, and topped up at 20s myself!

Another Ebaziyan imo,Total regressive type.

So everyone on here agrees with your assertion on what he needs sts?

Well might I point out that he has raced on good ground 4 times and won once. Going into the festival last year the concern about him was the quicker ground.

He won the Supreme well but that was on the back of a solid season showing he was in good form. This season he has either shown he is not in the same form or that his level is simply not good enough.

And as for needing a fast pace? Doesn't any decent horse?

And finally guaranteed good ground? This may happen but this season it is a dangerous assumption

very dangerous assumption

The concern about him and quicker ground is false. The trainer said he would improve on faster ground. There is also no evidence to suggest he isn't in the same form as last year, as he wasn't beating much. As for fast pace, it's much preferable than it turning into a sprint finish. It's a lot to ask for, but obviously some of us have backed him and are looking for positives, as opposed to looking for reason to have a fresh bet which would be different.

personally think the novice hurdlers, bar Simonsig are pretty bad. I'd expect the seniors to fill the frame in the champion.

Only an opinion mind you.

Some novices improve more than others. Darlan done it well. I'd be slightly cautious with putting them all in the same boat.

ofc you'll have some that will turn out better down the line. Although i think Darlan ain't that special myself and i got the feeling they think the same at hendo's when they were talking on channel 4.

Graeme I accept that now the assumption is wrong but not necessarily at the time. He had proven form on heavy so does not  'need' good ground as the post claimed.

I agree that you need to trust your own eyes always in a gambling context and maintain the faith in the reasons you make that decision. I wish you luck but I'd want to see some better form before looking at him again.

I'd be looking at Darlan for next year's Arkle

Cinders And Ashes' heavy ground form isn't worth squat imo. He won those races easily as he was entitled to by being the far, far superior horse


I think he needs better ground to be at his best.

He's flat bred,The vast majority of flat bred horse's normally regress after one good season.

No evidence to suggest he isn't in the same form as last year...Well other than the 2 runs where he's had the balls beaten off of him or do we not include his races this season as his current form.
Good luck with your bet but i can't see him winning a Champion Hurdle on any ground personally.

i'd be very surprised if c & a was a top of the ground horse, may be a class issue or a second year loss of form as suggested imho.

Well of all the posts i had read on here regarding C&A and come to the conclusion that most were of the same opinion as me. In that he has not shown the same level of form as last year simply because he has never had the pace to run off in either of his races and the ground on both occasions has been very soft! Yes he won all the last season on heavy/soft, but as the above poster stipulates, them runs are worthless as he beat nothing of any great quality!
Last years novice hurdlers may well prove out to be a dismal lot, but i talked with my wallet and thought 20/1 was far too big a price given the above possibilities! We will see in time i suppose.